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#11286 - 03/03/11 08:31 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Akichow]
quillansculpture Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 552
Loc: Murrieta, CA
What kind of doggie? Looks a bit like mine, except mine's a "blonde". Ours is named Tenaya and is a rescue.

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#11287 - 03/03/11 09:23 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Mike Condron]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Madison, WI
Originally Posted By: Mike Condron
An idea:
A hefty deposit on your WAG bag. If you choose to not return it for your deposit, used or not, just leave it somewhere on the trail in sight. Somebody will return it for the hefty deposit.
I'm thinking hefty is $50-$75.

There are probably many devilish details.


who will collect my credit card at Crabtree Meadows when I enter the Whitney zone from the other side?

Right now one in two hikers just walk right past the bin with wag bags sitting there at the JMT intersection...
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#11314 - 03/04/11 07:38 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: quillansculpture]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
What a cutie! Will we be seeing her on the trail?

Sasha is also a rescue. According to a DNA test, she has trace amounts of Akita, Chow, Siberian Husky, Boxer, and Poodle. Truly, she's a real mutt!

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#11337 - 03/04/11 04:24 PM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Fishmonger]
Mike Condron Offline


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 215
Loc: Now Manteca, CA
See the caveat.
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#11401 - 03/08/11 05:31 PM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Fishmonger]
Ken Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 742
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Fishmonger
Originally Posted By: Mike Condron
An idea:
A hefty deposit on your WAG bag. If you choose to not return it for your deposit, used or not, just leave it somewhere on the trail in sight. Somebody will return it for the hefty deposit.
I'm thinking hefty is $50-$75.

There are probably many devilish details.


who will collect my credit card at Crabtree Meadows when I enter the Whitney zone from the other side?

Right now one in two hikers just walk right past the bin with wag bags sitting there at the JMT intersection...


In management, this is known as "managing for the 1%".

Briefly stated, it is a logic system that has as it's goal, 100% performance. This might be required for a system to make sure that the wrong kidney is not removed in an operation. But for most things in life, the problem solving involved is not needful of a 100% solution. If the current compliance is 75%, then a boost to 95% would be a big, big deal.

The problem is when perfect becomes the enemy of good, and because we can't get that last 5%, we instead will settle for 75%. This kind of logic is just wrong and self-defeating.

On Acongacua, here is the procedure, just for TRASH:

"The checkpoint is right next to it in a tent where every visitor receives a numbered garbage bag that is registered in your permit. When leaving the park you either have to take the bag with you or the pack transportation team has to confirm in writing (a signature in your permit) that the garbage is taken away on the pack animals. Any violation of this rule will be fined with US$ 100."

So you have to carry a wag-bag across the Sierra to exit at Whitney. Price of doing business.

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#11413 - 03/09/11 05:37 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Ken]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
My guess is there is a way to minimize this problem but it is difficult because of the FS/PS thingy. MY guess is their computers are not networked; therefore the Trans-Sierra and JMT are never going to fall into this net. However, most of these folks are going exit the same day they summit spending less time in the Whitney Zone the average MMWT backpacker. My guess is these folks are not the problem anyhow.

The bulk of the bulk of the problem is 185 people who could put permits daily from the Inyo. All that is required is you put $xxx deposit for a serialized WAG bag(s). Upon return you turn in your WAG to get your deposit back.

Of course, this creates its own set of problems. The question is does it minimize the current situation where the forest service expects the citizenry to pick up and carry out the miscreant's hazardous waste.

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#11424 - 03/09/11 10:16 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: wbtravis]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1549
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Exiting Whitney to the west, is it be necessary to pack the full wag bag back to the trail head? Does that make sense to pack it through an area where everyone else is depositing in the ground? Can it just be packed out of the Whitney Zone a certain distance, and responsibly emptied, then pack out the empty?
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#11426 - 03/09/11 10:22 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: saltydog]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7235
Loc: Fresno, CA
> and responsibly emptied, then pack out the empty?

That sure seems reasonable to me.

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#11431 - 03/09/11 11:24 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Steve C]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Madison, WI
Originally Posted By: Steve C
> and responsibly emptied, then pack out the empty?

That sure seems reasonable to me.


didn't sound reasonable to the ranger I asked. Insisted I was supposed to carry the full bag to VVR where I would first get to a garbage can on my northbound JMT.

I guess there is some sort of chemical stuff in the bag? whatever it is - they probably feel once you re-open it you may just bury the whole plastic thing somewhere because you can't get it shut anymore. I just made sure I didn't have to use it smile



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#11432 - 03/09/11 11:28 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Steve C]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
The problem with some sort of wag bag register is that it would be even more hassle for those that wont use it. You hike in and out without ever needing the bag then you have to go and give it back. And of course there would have to be some kind of nasty drop box that the Rangers would have to fish through and mark off them as returned for people that are going home late.

I once stared at the box of wag bags at the Crabtree Ranger Station junction as I was on my way out to Whitney Portal and decided not to take the bag because I would not need it but only made it a half mile down the trail before a Ranger got really upset that I had not taken one and told me they are mandatory and that I had to take hers out of her pack. Now I am not sure if wagbags actually are mandatory to carry through the Whitney Zone which I doubt but I took it anyway. I think I still have that thing some where.

I think the better solution will come in higher tech bathrooms that can be installed up the mountain. But what that is I don't know. How about when you go it falls into a pit and then is vaporized by solar powered lasers lol.
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#11433 - 03/09/11 11:38 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: RoguePhotonic]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Madison, WI
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
I think the better solution will come in higher tech bathrooms that can be installed up the mountain. But what that is I don't know. How about when you go it falls into a pit and then is vaporized by solar powered lasers lol.


kids already have the portable version of that technology

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#11434 - 03/09/11 11:43 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Steve C]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
LOL! That made me think of after you go in the back country you pull out your gun and shoot the mess. Die poop DIE!
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#11444 - 03/10/11 08:17 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: wbtravis]
Ken Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 742
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: wbtravis
My guess is there is a way to minimize this problem but it is difficult because of the FS/PS thingy. MY guess is their computers are not networked; therefore the Trans-Sierra and JMT are never going to fall into this net. However, most of these folks are going exit the same day they summit spending less time in the Whitney Zone the average MMWT backpacker. My guess is these folks are not the problem anyhow.

The bulk of the bulk of the problem is 185 people who could put permits daily from the Inyo. All that is required is you put $xxx deposit for a serialized WAG bag(s). Upon return you turn in your WAG to get your deposit back.

Of course, this creates its own set of problems. The question is does it minimize the current situation where the forest service expects the citizenry to pick up and carry out the miscreant's hazardous waste.


small note: The waste is not generally hazardous to the originator, however it is to anyone else. For example, an HIV-positive person will have the bug in their waste, but cannot contract it, because they already have it. However, to someone else.......

I agree that the problem resides with the 185.

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#11448 - 03/10/11 08:58 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Ken]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 579
Loc: Manchester, NH
Not to stray too far on a tangent, but ...

The Whitney wag bags are far better than any others I've seen on other mountains which require them, like Shasta, Rainier, Hood, etc. Having done Whitney multiple times without needing to use the bag, I've accumulated a bit of a stash in my gear bin. I use these spares on trips to other mountains, and sometimes will bring one on a Whitney hike. After all, they're not really "free" - our tax dollars bought them.

Am not clear why some are so resistant about carrying one even if they're "certain" they won't need it (how can anybody be that sure?). After all, an un-used bag weighs almost nothing and takes no virtually no space.

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#11452 - 03/10/11 11:30 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: Steve C]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
Quote:
Am not clear why some are so resistant about carrying one even if they're "certain" they won't need it (how can anybody be that sure?). After all, an un-used bag weighs almost nothing and takes no virtually no space.


The reason I was is because I didn't want to be wasteful by taking a bag then never using it. I suppose you can drop it back off some where for others to use but I never had that chance. But yeah, "you never know" has never been so true in these cases.
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#11453 - 03/10/11 11:36 AM Re: Wilderness poop [Re: RoguePhotonic]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 579
Loc: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
Quote:
Am not clear why some are so resistant about carrying one even if they're "certain" they won't need it (how can anybody be that sure?). After all, an un-used bag weighs almost nothing and takes no virtually no space.


The reason I was is because I didn't want to be wasteful by taking a bag then never using it. I suppose you can drop it back off some where for others to use but I never had that chance. But yeah, "you never know" has never been so true in these cases.


I do Whitney twice a year, and one of the items I pack is an unused wag bag from a previous trip. When I pick up my permit and handed a wag bag, I decline it, saying I already have one from a previous trip.

For me, this is one way of not wasting USFS resources.

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