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#11505 - 03/13/11 05:27 PM Japan EQ
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 819
Loc: Oh Cursed, USA
Some of you know my mother moved to Japan after the passing of my father over 4 years ago.

Chiba. Approximately 200 miles south south west from the epicenter. 100 miles from the meltdown in Fukushima.

As of this date, 03-13-11, no word from my mother or any other members of my Japanese family who also live in Chiba Prefecture.

Confidence is high that she is safe. I have continuously tried to get through on her land line and cell phone, and emails to family with no success. I know that electricity is down throughout the area.

Sections of Chiba were not in the tsumani danger zone. My mother lives in a eight-story condo. She lives on the 4th floor.

Having been in several Japanese EQs, there is no such thing as liquefaction. You are literally thrown about any room since Japan sits on tip of solid rock.

My computer is on the USGS website. My eyes are glued to CNN. CNN? I never watched CNN until now.

Yes, the news is grim as to the casualties. No, my mother is not one of them.

I will keep my "family" up to date with the latest news.

Thank you for your prayers and your words in advance.

Just to maintain that positive thing: My mother probably got a ride on a tsumani wave on a tatami mat to Frisco (in particular Richmond, CA, where my wife is undergoing training for the SSA).

Only bad thing is that my mother doesn't swim good. My mother's maiden name translated means "rocky ground." Only rocks I know that float are pumice.

BTW, wifey-pooh is high and dry although she lives NEXT to the ocean.

My American family is also trying to contact my mother with the same results. I advised them to not call my mother and let me be the POC. Once I get that word of the "all clear, all safe" I will let them know.

During this time, it is not time to have fun, but to...

Have faith. wink
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#11508 - 03/13/11 06:12 PM Re: Japan EQ [Re: + @ti2d]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2234
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Listen to Auntie.

The BBC minute by minute coverage is the best there is. CNN is US-Centric & slow. The Sydney Morning Herald coverage is unbiased in my biased opinion. Some amazing photos at the NYT site here.

Best wishes for your family and all shell-shocked Japanese.

Latest news just in - another explosion at reactor #3.


Edited by wagga (03/13/11 06:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Latest news.
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#11510 - 03/13/11 08:37 PM Re: Japan EQ [Re: wagga]
Rod Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Santa Clarita, Ca. USA
Prayers for your family. We know you have that positive attitude.

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#11512 - 03/14/11 12:15 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: Rod]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2234
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
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#11514 - 03/14/11 07:00 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: wagga]
Harvey Lankford Offline


Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 1002
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
It irks me that some people will likely say the nuclear reactor problem as a call for moratorium.

There was far, far, far more death and destruction from Mother Nature herself! ( even if the nuclear thing gets worse)

This is a good summary of how things stack up nuclear-wise, compared to Chernobyl or other accidents:
http://wordpress.mrreid.org/2011/03/12/situation-at-fukushima-nuclear-power-station/



Edited by Harvey Lankford (03/14/11 07:12 AM)

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#11516 - 03/14/11 08:45 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: Harvey Lankford]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 589
Loc: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
It irks me that some people will likely say the nuclear reactor problem as a call for moratorium.

There was far, far, far more death and destruction from Mother Nature herself! ( even if the nuclear thing gets worse)


I don't follow your logic. One is man-made, the other is an act of nature. One we have some control over, the other little if any.

Be that as it may - a quick google shows that countries around the world are calling for reviews. Germany is considering shutting down two of its oldest plants.

Most countries with plants will conduct reviews. Whether it will happen in the US is anyone's guess. Given the fact that a leading Republican presidential candidate doesn't know the state in which the first shot of the Revolution occurred doesn't leave me hopeful.


Edited by KevinR (03/14/11 08:46 AM)

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#11517 - 03/14/11 08:57 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: Harvey Lankford]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1029
Loc: Madison, WI
Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
It irks me that some people will likely say the nuclear reactor problem as a call for moratorium.

There was far, far, far more death and destruction from Mother Nature herself! ( even if the nuclear thing gets worse)


I see that very differently, but probably only because I was exposed to the Chernobyl fallout. Chernobyl is still inaccessible wasteland. Places that have been destroyed by tsunamis can be repopulated.
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#11518 - 03/14/11 09:07 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: Fishmonger]
AlanK Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 583
Loc: Glendale, CA
The discussion in the US has started, with an early comment from a supporter of nuclear power (see also this).

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#11519 - 03/14/11 09:19 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: KevinR]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Originally Posted By: KevinR
Be that as it may - a quick google shows that countries around the world are calling for reviews. Germany is considering shutting down two of its oldest plants.

Most countries with plants will conduct reviews. Whether it will happen in the US is anyone's guess.


In all reality, is this any different then when other catastrophies have caused some sort of structural damage leading to re-evaluations of building codes, structural integrity and resistance ability?

If we're keeping the discussion strictly to earthquakes, look at the catastrophic failure of the Cypress Street Viaduct (I-880)and the collapse of a 50' of the Oakland Bay Bridge and during the 1989 Lome Prieta quake....

Quote:
Following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in the San Francisco Bay area, The Department sponsored accelerated retrofit research primarily conducted at the University of California at Berkeley and the University of California at San Diego
(http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/paffairs/about/retrofit.htm)

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#11521 - 03/14/11 09:38 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: SoCalGirl]
AlanK Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 583
Loc: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted By: SoCalGirl
In all reality, is this any different then when other catastrophies have caused some sort of structural damage leading to re-evaluations of building codes, structural integrity and resistance ability?

It may not be literally true that we humans learn only from disasters, but we do seem to have a tendency in that direction.

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#11522 - 03/14/11 09:58 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: AlanK]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2234
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Ever since the first passenger departed an inverted biplane, the FAA said "gotta have seatbelts". Somewhere along the line we found out that square windows on a pressurized jet passenger liner was a bad idea. Laws were made. And so it continues.
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#11523 - 03/14/11 10:00 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: AlanK]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Originally Posted By: AlanK
It may not be literally true that we humans learn only from disasters, but we do seem to have a tendency in that direction.


Alan, I wasn't trying to infer that humans only learn from disasters... but instead that the reaction to step back and look at the way that reactors (and other buildings) are built isn't something "special" in relation to just this earthquake...

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#11524 - 03/14/11 10:31 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: + @ti2d]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
I think it's a bit stupid to compare what has happened or what is going to happen in Japan to other sources of nuclear power and decide to build or not. The lesson learned from Japan is not that nuclear power is too dangerous to use but it's just too stupid to build nuclear power plants on or near massive earth quake faults. There are plenty of places in the world where no earthquakes occur and it is safe enough. I'm all for clean energy but until something practical can be done to offset nuclear energy I say build more of them.
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#11525 - 03/14/11 10:49 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: SoCalGirl]
lynn-a-roo Offline


Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 627
Loc: OrangeCounty
I've lived in Southern California since I was four years old. As long as I can remember, it seems like the San Onofre nuclear power plant has been in So Cal. I once applied for a job at San Onofre, I believe I was suppose to interview with So Cal Edison, the company that ran the plant. I remember walking into a trailer in the parking lot and given paperwork and told to walk down into the plant where I would find an office where my interview would be conducted. I walked to the security gate which led down into the plant while holding my papers, stopped to show the guard my paperwork and then given authorization to pass through the gate and down into the plant. As I walked down I scanned my surroundings and saw lots of barbed wired and warning signs, etc. Before I reached the office for my interview I began to start getting really weird feelings in my gut and my brain started saying, NO, NO, NO, TURN AROUND, DON'T GO THERE. I listened to my brain and hi-tailed it out of there. I don't think I told a soul I was leaving, I just jumped into my car and left. I'll never forget that day. I was much younger, probably in my early 30's. As I got older I began to think that nuclear power plants aren't so bad, I was even beginning to support the idea of more nuclear power plants, but since Friday and the troubles Japan is having with their nuclear power plant, I'm beginning to have second thoughts. I'm ignorant when it comes to knowing about radiation and how it affects the body, but I've heard enough experts say the exact same things over the past couple of days so I beginning to think I know a little bit more now and it alarms me. We depend on others to protect us (as if they really know what they're doing, especially government officials). The Japanese nuclear experts couldn't even get their backup generators to start to keep the cooling system working and rescue efforts couldn't seem to deliver any new generators in time to keep and explosion for happening and their backup to their backup system is batteries. Batteries don't last forever. I don't believe their batteries worked either.

I don't know what the answer is to our energy problems in the world or how to ensure clean air, but I do know it takes energy to make everything in this world. Heck, the nuclear power plant can't even operate without energy to make it function. Anyone driving a hybrid car is really not doing anything to save our planet, instead they're creating more waste because they need batteries to run their cars and it takes a lot of energy to make the batteries and once those batteries are used up they're nothing more than hazardous waste.

I'm just venting so I don't blow up and I chose the ears of my friends on the WZ to tell my woes. Thank you for listening.


Edited by lynn-a-roo (03/14/11 10:50 AM)

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#11526 - 03/14/11 11:10 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: RoguePhotonic]
AlanK Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 583
Loc: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
I think it's a bit stupid to compare what has happened or what is going to happen in Japan to other sources of nuclear power and decide to build or not. The lesson learned from Japan is not that nuclear power is too dangerous to use but it's just too stupid to build nuclear power plants on or near massive earth quake faults. There are plenty of places in the world where no earthquakes occur and it is safe enough. I'm all for clean energy but until something practical can be done to offset nuclear energy I say build more of them.

The San Onofre plant was designed to withstand a 7.0 quake based on an expert assessment in the 1960s that the biggest quake it was likely to ever see was a 6.5. Its seawall is designed to withstand a 25 foot tsunami. So, as long as 7.0 and 25 feet were not underestimated... "what, me worry?"

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#11527 - 03/14/11 11:11 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: SoCalGirl]
AlanK Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 583
Loc: Glendale, CA
Originally Posted By: SoCalGirl
Originally Posted By: AlanK
It may not be literally true that we humans learn only from disasters, but we do seem to have a tendency in that direction.


Alan, I wasn't trying to infer that humans only learn from disasters... but instead that the reaction to step back and look at the way that reactors (and other buildings) are built isn't something "special" in relation to just this earthquake...

Just to be clear, I agreed with your point and figured that any inference was mine.

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#11528 - 03/14/11 11:19 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: AlanK]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Originally Posted By: AlanK
Just to be clear, I agreed with your point and figured that any inference was mine.


Thanks Alan....

And as I read the ensuing posts and see the ability of this thread to quickly dissipate into something not nice... I'm going to respectivly bow myself out of the conversation...


+@ti2d... I will pray for the safety of your Mother, family and friends.. as well as everyone else who is suffering, and will continue to do so, amid all of the catastrophic damage in Japan as they attempt to return to some semblance of normalcy in their STILL shaking and dangerous homes and country.


Edited by SoCalGirl (03/14/11 11:21 AM)

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#11529 - 03/14/11 11:27 AM Re: Japan EQ [Re: lynn-a-roo]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 589
Loc: Manchester, NH
A month or two ago I was driving home from a hike on a Sunday afternoon, listening to NPR on XM radio. There was a lecture by an expert on energy, being delivered to some reputable organization - the details of who it was, and to whom it was delivered I don't recall, but he certainly sounded like a credible individual. Anyway, he methodically explained the world's energy usage, the sources from which it was derived, and the practical limitations of each. He pointed out that, even if our reservations about nuclear energy could be mitigated, and extraction/creation of the fuel done in a less harmful way, that in order to meet the world's energy needs a nuclear power plant would have to come online, once a week for the next 40 years.

I got home before before his talk ended, so didn't hear his conclusions. Based upon what I did hear, it seems likely we'll be burning fossil fuel for a long time to come, especially since there's little financial motivation to do otherwise.


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#11530 - 03/14/11 12:20 PM Re: Japan EQ [Re: + @ti2d]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
Quote:
The San Onofre plant was designed to withstand a 7.0 quake


Considering the largest quake California ever had was a 7.9 I don't think 7.0 is enough lol.

A good point Lynn made is how much energy it takes to make something like an energy efficient alternative. Too often I hear people pushing ideas to save from oil usage when it actually can take more oil then it saves. You always need to look at the whole picture. Take incandescent light bulbs for example. The ban in America is in place and the bulbs have deadlines for when they are illegal. Those light bulbs though are made in America. You think it is more energy efficient to ship 200 pounds of fluorescent light bulbs in a 8000 pound cargo container thousands of miles over the seas from China? In the end it will use more energy then it saves.
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#11535 - 03/14/11 02:05 PM Re: Japan EQ [Re: KevinR]
Harvey Lankford Offline


Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 1002
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Originally Posted By: KevinR
Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
It irks me that some people will likely say the nuclear reactor problem as a call for moratorium.

There was far, far, far more death and destruction from Mother Nature herself! ( even if the nuclear thing gets worse)


I don't follow your logic. One is man-made, the other is an act of nature. One we have some control over, the other little if any.


Actually, that IS the point. We all consciously elect to take calculated risks, none foolproof; a ride in the car, a flight on a 747, turning on the gas heat, sitting in the radioactive sunshine, or building a nuclear reactor. Otherwise, we would live in a unheated hut wondering if there will be a next meal.

My point is that no matter how much radiation is released, and no matter how much biological significance it attains, it is unlikely to come anywhere close to the deaths caused by the earthquake/tsunami. So the anti-nuclear sentiment that is already arising is comparing apples and oranges, both in terms of reactor type, and in terms of numbers of unfortunate victims from either natural or man-made cause.

Disclaimer: I am a Radiation Safety Officer (RSO) and Authorized User(AU). We administer medical radioactive iodine obtained as a fission byproduct of a Canadian reactor. I also live about 50 miles downwind of North Anna Nuclear Power Station in Virginia.



Edited by Harvey Lankford (03/14/11 02:10 PM)

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