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#12027 - 03/24/11 01:00 PM Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2243
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
All gone in 23 minutes.

"Twenty-three minutes. That's how much time it took for eager Yosemite hikers to gobble up all the available Half Dome permits for May and June that went on sale March 1.

Permits for Saturdays and Sundays didn't even last that long. They were gone in 10 minutes.
"

From the first comment:

"Just yesterday, a woman, Angelica Valenta, had 12 permits for sale on Craigslist. She said she sold all 12 in the first day, for $100 each. That is a 6000% profit. Not bad. Didn't the Park Service know there would be a huge black market created because of this?"
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Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#12028 - 03/24/11 01:06 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: wagga]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
This is kind of funny: every so-many-months when the Half Dome E-tickets go on sale, some paper announces the "shocking" news at how fast the tickets -- I mean Permits -- went & the even more "shocking" news of the existing Black Market.

Just save this article/thread and reprise it whenever they open the Half Dome box office.
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#12030 - 03/24/11 02:05 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Bee]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2243
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Here is the magic incantation.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#12047 - 03/24/11 09:50 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: wagga]
GandC Offline


Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 252
Loc: SoCal
Anyone seen one of the new permits? We did Half Dome last year on a weekday, specifically to avoid the permit process.

I read that the permits actually say on them that they are not to be auctioned off. I guess they didn't take into account a site like Craigslist, where there is no actual auction.

I am of the opinion that they ought to make these things non-transferable to avoid stuff like this happening on such a grand scale. What do you guys think?
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One day I'd like to hike the entire John Muir Trail and not leave a single footprint. -Randy Morgenson

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#12048 - 03/24/11 10:36 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: GandC]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7599
Loc: Fresno, CA
What do I think? ....I think they should:

Charge more for the permits
Use the $$ to set up a system where they can redistribute the no-shows to walk-in people.

Use the $$ to manage time-windows: I am sure there are lots of people who would be willing to start at 4 AM if 9-10 AM was the only time they were allowed to start up the cables.

Lots of others might be willing to go up the cables at sunset if that was the only time window they were allowed through.

The N.P. could really manage the safety of numbers on the cables AND permit more people to access Half Dome, if they would just try to use a little creativity.

....you asked what I thought. frown

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#12049 - 03/24/11 10:43 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Steve C]
GandC Offline


Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 252
Loc: SoCal
I do like the idea of making them cost a bit more. Not ridiculous amounts, but more than they're charging. My Dad and I were just talking about that today.

The time window, I'm not so sure about. Things beyond hikers control get in the way sometimes, especially on Half Dome. T-storms would be a big number one. But then again, that very thing might be a deterrent for some hikers, and that might not be all bad either.

I really think the non-transferable thing should be the first change.
_________________________
One day I'd like to hike the entire John Muir Trail and not leave a single footprint. -Randy Morgenson

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#12050 - 03/24/11 10:57 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: GandC]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7599
Loc: Fresno, CA
Thunderstorms? Anyone climbing the HD cables in that kind of weather is on a death wish anyway. The obvious problems of steel cables in an electrical stom PLUS slick and wet polished granite.... Mercy!!!

YNP only allows people to reserve 4 permits, specifically to prevent scalping. But I agree they shouldn't be transferable.


Edited by Steve C (03/25/11 11:11 AM)

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#12061 - 03/25/11 10:46 AM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Steve C]
Brent N Offline


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 278
Loc: Orange County, CA
Thunderstorms can be fleeting at that elevation. I'm probably overly cautious, but if I see approaching thunderheads rolling in, I simply wait until they are gone before I summit. Depending on the weather, that might take minutes or a couple of hours. I don't like sharing the vicinity of any summit with a nearby thunderhead.

Brent N

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#12251 - 03/31/11 08:25 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Brent N]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7599
Loc: Fresno, CA
Saw this on the wpsmb forum, and it's worth posting:

Originally Posted By: BillB
If you want to climb Half Dome in July, you have to be on the www.recreation.gov website tomorrow morning, April 1, at 7:00 am, pacific daylight time to get your permits. I suggest you go online this evening to get signed up and get familiar with the process of applying for the permit. This is a link to information about Half Dome: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdpermits.htm.

We were able to get permits last year, but it was a little confusing...as I recall I think you have to enter information below what you see on the initial screen shot, so you have to scan down to make sure you have all the entries completed.

You have to be online and ready to go right at 7:00...They go really fast...Good luck!


I'm considering a trip in May before the cables are put up on the posts, so I can go without a permit.

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#12257 - 04/01/11 06:20 AM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Steve C]
CaT Offline


Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Blacklick, OH (formerly SoCal)
Quote:
You have to be online and ready to go right at 7:00...They go really fast...

Understatement of the year!

This morning at 10:00 (EDT) -- same as 7:00 a.m. PDT -- I was already logged on, had Half Dome Cables, my preferred date, number of permits all selected and ready to go. I even had copied my credit card number after typing it in Word, so I could just paste it into the payment section when I got there.

So then, precisely at 10:00:00 a.m. (after clicking the Select button about once a minute leading up until then, just in case their clock was running earlier than mine), I finally got on, filled out the information, clicked the various buttons (had to refill in the quantity again on the payment page!), with payment finally going through and the permit being confirmed at 10:03 a.m.

Immediately, I went back to do another order of 4 for the same day of the week, but one week earlier (since we don't know for sure which of two weeks our Whitney permits will end up being), was back on the appropriate page with Half Dome and the earlier date filled within about 30 seconds, clicked Book Permit, and all 300 were already gone for that date (and from the looks of it, for the entire month of July) IN UNDER 4-5 MINUTES!!!!

Pity those folks who actually tried to call their in on the 800 number! They probably never got to first base.

CaT
_________________________
If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

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#12306 - 04/01/11 08:08 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: CaT]
JimC Offline


Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 57
Loc: SoCal
I managed to get my 2 passes when I wanted them and then watched the action. It looked like at 3 minutes and about 3 seconds the month was sold out. However, a few people may have backed out and not actually completed the final purchase, because it looked like several sets of 2, 3, and 4 briefly popped back up and then were snagged. I'm glad I am no longer on a dial up modem grin . They would have all been sold out just between selecting my date and transitioning to the next page.

So last month they were gone in 23 minutes. This time its about 3 minutes (about 8:1 difference). Next month it will be about 26.7 seconds. The following month it should be about 3.6 seconds. I'm glad I got mine now, because I can't type that fast let alone hike that fast.

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#12310 - 04/01/11 09:03 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: JimC]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7599
Loc: Fresno, CA
It would make sense for them to set up an on-line lottery.

Hope they do soon.

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#12337 - 04/02/11 03:35 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Steve C]
CaT Offline


Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Blacklick, OH (formerly SoCal)
That much is certain.
_________________________
If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

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#12340 - 04/02/11 04:25 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: wagga]
Joel M. Baldwin Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Sacramento Ca USA
I wonder how many more people are now going to try doing the hike with the cables down, thus bypassing the permit process.

Or will the demand on wilderness permits increase?


Edited by Joel M. Baldwin (04/02/11 04:26 PM)

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#12357 - 04/03/11 04:31 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Joel M. Baldwin]
Barbara Offline


Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 44
Loc: LA, CA
The demand on wilderness permits already seems to have increased. It's very hard to get a permit for the JMT now, starting from Happy Isles and camping at Little Yosemite Valley or "pass thru" to beyond there.

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#12384 - 04/04/11 01:57 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Joel M. Baldwin]
CaT Offline


Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Blacklick, OH (formerly SoCal)
I'm thinking it's time to up my rock climbing skill set so I can do Snake Dike up the west side of HD, and then descend the cables (probably on the outside). No need for a permit for that route.

CaT
_________________________
If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

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#12459 - 04/05/11 10:18 PM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Steve C]
JimC Offline


Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 57
Loc: SoCal
The Whitney lottery and all of its nuances, such as being able to turn passes back in and make them available to walk-ups seems to be a well rounded approach to handling a limited resource.

The Half-Dome on-line permit process seems to be a poor approach to resource management. I believe it is a distinct disadvantage to many. I know in my case I was tied up in meetings during the first round and when I was able to break away in the afternoon the permits were long gone. Also, I suspect many permits will end up going completely unused. Recycling permits that will not be used requires the pass holder to proactively free them up on-line. Where as the current Whitney lottery has a built in fail safe that makes unclaimed permits available.

I sure hope that when the Whitney Lottery goes on-line next year it preserves the flavor of the existing lottery. I think if the same submission dates were kept and the random selection and allocation process were done by computer then we would all hear the results much sooner. This would sure help out in planning time off from work and coordinating other permit situations like the Grand Canyon. I also have a few friends that are hopelessly computer illiterate, but love to hike. A totally on-line system for permits puts these people at a disadvantage too. Keeping the same time window and allowing mailed applications that could be scanned in I think might be a good compromise. I'm sure most hikers will opt to apply on-line and this will help reduce the burden on the rangers and staff.

I missed getting a permit this year through the Whitney Lottery and congratulate all those who were successful. I also think the rangers and staff should be applauded for all the hard work they put into the lottery process. Obtaining two permits for Half Dome on April 1 certainly made my day. Now I am going to just show up at Inyo and cross my fingers on getting a permit to do Whitney.

Good luck to all

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#12470 - 04/06/11 08:32 AM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: JimC]
Ken Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 742
Loc: Los Angeles
JimC, I am generally in agreement with you.

To be fair with the HD situation, the Whitney process is the result of many years of trial and error, resulting in what we have now.

This is a totally new concept for HD, and I get the distinct impression that they are feeling their way along, year by year.

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#12472 - 04/06/11 11:11 AM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: Ken]
GandC Offline


Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 252
Loc: SoCal
Exactly. Last year was the first time Half Dome required a permit at all, and that was only Fri-Sun. So really this is their first year on a daily permit system. I'm sure they'll learn some lessons this year, and every year for that matter, and the system will be ever-evolving.

I don't think that there will be a shortage of traffic up Half Dome as a result...
_________________________
One day I'd like to hike the entire John Muir Trail and not leave a single footprint. -Randy Morgenson

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#12473 - 04/06/11 11:38 AM Re: Half Dome Hiking Permits Sell Out Fast [Re: GandC]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2243
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Google "craigslist half dome permits" (without the quotes). Plenty for sale $30-$50. Then read this post from Yosemitenewws.info.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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