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Training advice
#12436 04/05/11 10:55 AM
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Hi all, relative newcomer here. My boyfriend and I attempted to hike the main trail three years ago and had to turn around at Trail Crest. Before the hike, I read this forum religiously and learned alot from everyone--it's great!

Since then, we have been dreaming of trying again--and now I have an overnight permit for August! So excited! I know it's a long's way off, but I want to start training.

We live in the Bay Area and are avid hikers anyway so I know some spots for altitude training. What I would love suggestions on, is training for terrain.

I am a bit affected by fear of heights, and so am hoping I might get more comfortable hiking where I will need to maneuver narrow granite trails.

Clouds Rest comes to mind--which I have hiked three times from the Tenaya Lake side. I walked across the ridge one of those times, and was petrified(strangely, it didn't bother me on the way back, maybe because I knew I was getting off the thing). I refused to cross it the other two times I went up. Strangely, I have no fear at all on the staircase or hump going up Half Dome, and people have told me that disconcerts them. Of course it isn't a narrow ridge, but there is a great deal of very real exposure. I'm able to concentrate on blocking everything out better on this than on the Clouds Rest ridge.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give you an idea of my background. Any places I should tackle to get used to what I might experience on the "windows"? Or maybe I just need to mentally psych myself up?

Any advice is appreciated!

Re: Training advice
Susykat #12440 04/05/11 11:40 AM
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Susykat, I should say, that the Whitney trail "windows" really aren't as bad as the top of Clouds Rest.

On CR, you can look down a looong way with lots of steep, bare granite below you. The Whitney trail is wider and less exposed at the windows. You may not have any trouble at all there.

I am hoping someone will post a few pictures of the windows here for you.

Re: Training advice
Steve C #12443 04/05/11 02:48 PM
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Susykat, I looked for some shots of the windows in my photos but I suppose I just didn't take any. Which is a telling point - they're not that impressive. There's only one of any significant exposure on both sides, and the trail is pretty wide at that point. High winds and an icy surface? Maybe cause for a few jitters, but otherwise no biggie. I remember thinking, "Really? THIS is what the fuss is all about?!" IMHO, there are other areas with greater exposure along the section between the windows and the summit, but nothing to get worked up about for most folks - and most people do have some degree of acrophobia. Based on where you've hiked already, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Just be sure to incorporate as much uphill hiking as you can in your training, and acclimate properly when you get to the Sierra. You'll have a great time.

Re: Training advice
Bulldog34 #12444 04/05/11 03:11 PM
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One of the windows:



The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Training advice
Susykat #12449 04/05/11 05:44 PM
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Just train to carry your pack 6-miles, +3,600' and the rest will take care of itself.

Training for a summer backpacking trip to Mt. Whitney is a lot easier than getting ready for the day hike. The only thing you might want to do it get up to between 12,000' to 14,000' before heading to Whitney Portal, basically to know what to expect.

Head up and over Mono Pass (S) to Pioneer Basin and/or the 4th Recess. With all the snow this past winter this will be a spectacular trip in late July or early August.

Re: Training advice
wbtravis #12450 04/05/11 06:31 PM
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Gary's right. The windows are a bit over blown. I wouldn't want to be up there in snow or 80 mph winds, but in this pic, I didn't even know I was right next to a window. There are probably a couple of spots on the switchbacks that are a bit iffyer, but there really aren't any scary spots.



I think it's important to know that once you're at the summit, the way back to Trail Crest can be tough. As you see in the pic....you have to go down and then back up. You're pretty tired at that point. Do your training, make some goals, drink lots of water and eat good stuff. Take your time and enjoy the trip.


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Re: Training advice
Bee #12451 04/05/11 06:40 PM
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Interesting how differences in perception affect our assessment of risks. RIch topic.

I have never experienced or even considered the least sense of exposure at the Windows (3 passes) or any other point between T-Crest and summit. And I am someone who gets queasy in a lot of other situations. Felt more exposed on lower sections of the trail.

Blissfully glissaded from Trail Crest twice and thought it was pretty slow and tame way down, but might not again, knowing what I know now. Don't see any reason why cables were installed on the Switchbacks, but have some trepidation about certain sections of the MT (between Trailside Meadow and Trail Camp e.g.) and the HST (Valhalla) .

All in, I gotta go with Eleanor Roosevelt: every day, do one thing that scares you. If that one thing is looking through the Windows, just remember a couple of facts: as far as I know, no one has ever died (1) from a fall from the MT between Trail Crest and the summit or (2) wishing she had spent more time at the office.



Last edited by saltydog; 04/05/11 06:55 PM.

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Re: Training advice
saltydog #12454 04/05/11 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
... as far as I know, no one has ever died (1) from a fall from the MT between Trail Crest and the summit


Actually, I think someone did. An older fellow, during the fall a couple of years ago. They found his body somewhere below Mt Muir, IIRC.

Anyone recall the details?

Re: Training advice
KevinR #12456 04/05/11 07:39 PM
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If you're talking about Wade B, that was an unfortunate situation where he continued to climb toward the summit in very cold and late-afternoon conditions. He likely became hypothermic with the associated loss of mental abilities. Darkness probably fell, too. It was a basic case of failure to turn around at a reasonable hour. His situation was not caused by the dangerousness of the windows area.

Re: Training advice
Susykat #12457 04/05/11 08:00 PM
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Here is one of the windows. The drop off appears significant, but here is the thing -- I, who have a very significant fear of heights, far more than the average person, was able to take this picture comfortably. The trail is wide enough at the windows that fear was not a factor. But I was glad, at various points, that I had my poles as a kind of security blanket.



Re: Training advice
Susykat #12461 04/06/11 02:00 AM
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Hi, Susykat

Since you live by the bay, may I suggest a great conditioning hike I am sure you are aware of in Mill Valley...

Dipsea Trail.

I suggest hiking with a gallon jug of water (8 lbs.) in your pack. Yes, going up those 671 steps can be brutal, but it is the 672nd one to look forward to.

Once you get to the beach fill up your water bottles/Camelbak and dump the rest in the ocean and hike back.

Once you get to the steps again, dump all your water except for a 3 liter bottle. Heck, a half liter. It's only 671 steps and it is all downhill!

Then, grab a snack at Whole Foods, then go to the REI, then...

There are the hills of SF.

This should prepare you for Cloud's Rest, etc.

Once you get the conditioning down, then you won't have to worry about the windows. Just enjoy the other views the MWT has to offer.

Another added training tip is to ride a stationary bike for 20-30 minutes everyday. Not as fun as Dipsea but nobody ever drowned in sweat.

Don't forget core conditioning, either. Some upper body is good, too.

Also, consider a turn around time. I give myself a 1:00 p.m. TAT. Muy importante!

Good luck to you and your BF with your training.

Be sure to take plenty of pictures of the windows! Take that, Bulldog34! grin


Journey well...
Re: Training advice
Susykat #12464 04/06/11 05:55 AM
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Thanks everyone for your replies, and also for the pictures. They are great.

Am looking forward to a summer of training. I just signed up for a trip to join a group to Mt. Dana in July. From what I understand, there is a lot of boulder hopping, and of course, plenty of altitude.

Since I'm going in late August, snow and ice shouldn't be an issue near the windows area, but I have a question about wind. I know you can never really predict these things, but does it tend to follow a pattern, like is it likely to be worse early in the morning, or does it pick up as the day goes on?

Re: Training advice
+ @ti2d #12466 04/06/11 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: + @ti2d
Be sure to take plenty of pictures of the windows! Take that, Bulldog34! grin


Let me qualify that, Gary - I do have photos taken from the windows, but none of the trail running through the windows. I try to take lots of photos when I'm out there, but I guess the view of the trail through the windows never got enough of my attention to snap a shot from that perspective.

So, note to self: in July, take shots of the windows/trail perspective to have on hand for the next time this comes up. Susykat, you're far from the first to ask this question about the windows and exposure.

Re: Training advice
Bulldog34 #12467 04/06/11 08:01 AM
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Gary, from what I've read, you're ready to do TWO summits in one day! What do you say......can you hold my hand up the Mountaineers Route after we summit up the main trail?

Seriously though Gary.....I'm so fricken excited about July. Can't wait to see the family. Looks like some people from this site may be coming to buy you a beer too.


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Re: Training advice
Bulldog34 #12478 04/06/11 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
Let me qualify that, Gary - I do have photos taken from the windows, but none of the trail running through the windows.


This is from the summit area looking to the backside of the ridge where the trail crosses by thw windows. The faint line of the trail can be seen near the center of the image cutting the base of two of the notches in the ridge.


For a larger version (click on image to zoom if necessary):
http://www.dbdimages.com/Eastern-Sierra/Whitney-Trail-2007-2008/P1n079150653a/200841213_R29L7-X3.jpg

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

Re: Training advice
Susykat #12488 04/06/11 03:02 PM
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I believe that the accumulated wisdom is to get up there early (before noon if possible) to lower the chances of encounters with storms. Storms, if they happen, tend to gather in the afternoon. I saw that both times I was on the mountain (happily from lower elevations).

Re: Training advice
Bulldog34 #12491 04/06/11 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
Originally Posted By: + @ti2d
Be sure to take plenty of pictures of the windows! Take that, Bulldog34! grin


Let me qualify that, Gary - I do have photos taken from the windows, but none of the trail running through the windows...So, note to self: in July, take shots of the windows/trail perspective to have on hand for the next time this comes up.

Ruh roh...not nice to mess with a Bulldog34!grin


Journey well...
Re: Training advice
+ @ti2d #12492 04/06/11 04:28 PM
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I was just a good Boy Scout, 'Tude - pisses me off when I realize I'm not prepared . . .

Besides, us Garys gotta stick together.

Re: Training advice
Bulldog34 #12504 04/07/11 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
I was just a good Boy Scout, 'Tude - pisses me off when I realize I'm not prepared . . .

Besides, us Garys gotta stick together.

Yes, been there done that in regards to "preparation."

Seven P's: Prior proper planning prevents p*ss poor performance. Insert "I" in the asterisk. "I" am responsible for what I do or fail to do.

+ @ti2d Stupidity Checklist: Once before, never again...

Now, back to the training advice...


Journey well...
Re: Training advice
saltydog #12717 04/12/11 02:21 PM
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Hi! Saltydog, could I ask you to elaborate a little on what you said about having trepidation about some spots on the Main Trail between Trailside Meadow and Trail Camp (which I've been on, and although I don't really remember it, I do remember being glad we camped at Outpost and that I didn't have a pack with me, I vaguely remember thinking a pack may have swayed my balance a couple of times), and Valhalla, which I am not familiar with--where is it? What caused concern for you at these areas?
cheers,
Susy

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