Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion One Day Hike - First-Timer Questions

This is my first Whitney trip (round trip in one day) and I have a reservation confirmed at the end of July (near the new moon). I plan to leave early, 2 to 3AM.

Questions:
Is there someone there in the middle of the night to check permits or do they check later on the trail? I would assume that 12AM would be the earliest allowable leave time for a specified day?

Is there usually enough places to park a car at the trailhead?

Are there any rattle snakes up at these elevations? If so, anyone had problems with rattlers during the night hike?

Is it better to camp inside or stay somewhere in Lone Pine?


Thanks.

Welcome aboard, Camminatore. The theme of this forum is "How not to die on Whitney". Doctors & Park Rangers will chime in with advice. The single most important indicator of success, assuming you are fit, is getting several days at at least 10,000' altitude before the big day. That might be difficult in your part of the country so plan on getting out here early & getting high.

Q1 answer: You bet they are out there. They know the human psyche. They have seen and heard it all. If you step foot on the trail at 12:00 a.m. it is okay...you are legal.

Q2 answer: Yes, but you may have to park down the road if there are no parking spots available at the TH. DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT park in the day use only area. I'd say you have a 60% chance of getting a spot near the TH. Don't drive around the are too much, there are campers "trying" to sleep.

Q3 answer: I have never seen a rattler up at the Portal. Guess they don' like altitude. I have seen rattlers at Lone Pine Campground. Now, bears, yes.

Q4 answer: It is a matter of personal preference. Since it is your first, I recommend staying at the Hostel. "Hike high, sleep low." Ask for a room away from the highway. However, if you plan on a 12:00 a.m. start, that means you have to leave at 11:15 p.m. When you see people coming out of the Pizza Factory having a grand old time and you are prepping to leave for the TH, you tell yourself, "Man, there is something really wrong here! I should be having a beer and a pizza doggone it!"

Hope this helps...

Permit check and leaving time...I've had my permit checked most of the trips up or down the MMWT. There is some ambiguity about about when you are able to start you day hike. Some here have been told by forest service personnel you can enter Whitney Zone at 12:01, while I have been told you have to leave the trailhead at 12:01.

Parking...It gets tight in Whitney Prime Time but we have always have found parking near the trailhead, usually in the overflow lot.

Rattlesnakes...In a dozen years of hiking I have seen more bears and bighorn Sheep than rattlers...the highest I've ever seen one is about 7,200'.

Camp Inside/Lone Pine...It depends on how you handle elevation. If you need to acclimatize it makes sense to spend a few days get used to it. At last check, that mean Whitney Portal or higher.

Camminatore, on the acclimation subject, let me throw in some advice from a fellow flatlander. AMS is one of the leading causes of failure to summit Whitney. I've been there, and it's no damn fun. Just go ahead and shoot me. You're making quite an effort to travel most of the way across the country to get your crack at this mountain, so you want to do everything possible to avoid AMS and give yourself the best chance to summit.

If at all possible, find a way to sleep reasonably high. The more time at elevation, the better your body acclimates to the reduced oxygen levels. Pre-hiking high is good (11,000 to 12,000 ft if possible), but if you're bringing camping gear make it a point to spend a couple of nights before your entry date at either the Portal campground (8300 ft) or, even better, nearby Horseshoe Meadow campground (10,000 ft).

If you don't have camping gear, your options are limited. You can, however, sleep in your vehicle at the Portal if push comes to shove.

The one and only time I've ever suffered AMS was on Whitney in 2009. It surprised me since I had hit summits of 13K' and 14K' several times prior with zero issues. Eventually I realized that it was likely due to the fact that all my successful higher summits had also been accompanied by sleeping in the 7K' to 8K' range beforehand. The '09 Whitney trip, where I suffered my one and only bout with AMS, I had hiked to around 12K' several days prior to Whitney, but I was sleeping in Lone Pine (3700 ft). I corrected that last year by sleeping at 8K' ft several nights before Whitney, and felt just fine on the summit.

Enjoy the experience - you'll have a blast!

The only way I've ever seen permit checks is when you meet a ranger on the trail. They don't even have to ask you. The permit is a brightly colored tag about 4" X 8" that has a wire twist you use use to put it in view on your pack. Day hikers get one color, backpackers get another color. That way the ranger can just look and based on what you're carrying judge what color the tag should be. If he doesn't see it he'll open a conversation with you.


The lot empties out quite a bit by the end of the day due to the day hikers leaving. Your best bet is to drive up to the TH, dump your pack ( make sure someone is there to watch it otherwise bears might drag it off ), and then park in the overflow parking. It's a short walk away.


I'd say camp at altitude. That could mean at the Portal, or Horseshoe Meadow, or else where depending on where you're coming from. You'll need all the time at altitude you can get. Maybe come a day or two early?

Welcome, Camminatore!

Regarding the midnight start: I have been told by National Forest staff that you can hike up to Lone Pine Lake without a permit. It is only beyond the lake, and the Wilderness boundary, that you must have a valid permit. So I suppose you could start at 11 p.m.

But that would be foolish -- the sleep deprivation will catch up to you before you reach the summit. And the summit is only half way! Lots more people leave at 3 or 4 a.m. You won't be alone.

All the info about acclimatization is on the mark. Here are two recent discussions worth reading:

    Anyone know about a High altitue B&B or Campground?

    recomendations for an acclimatization route up the summit?
 

Not sure what you mean by "camp inside." You cannot camp anywhere on the Whitney trail if you have a day use permit, meaning you cannot camp at Lone Pine Lake or other areas that are technically before the Whitney Zone, but still off the main trail.

It is good to camp a few nights at altitude before going up to 14500 feet. Onion Valley is another nice option at just over 9000 feet (someone also mentioned Horseshoe Meadow). Some of the spots at Onion Valley are reservable on recreation.gov. The trailhead campground is lower (too bad),and have a lot of bears and noise, but still probably a better option than staying in Lone Pine, which is far lower elevation.

As posted, I was told just the opposite by the people within the same building when it comes to starting time. I have found it best to just get up and go if you can't sleep. 2 of our last 3 we were up at 12:30 and moving towards the summit at 1:30. I, like many, a couple of things working against me sleeping the night before a summit attempt...elevation and anxiety.

Those two time were from just under 12,000' but I have problems even at 8,000' from time to time. You couple that with the excitement, sleep is very difficult to come by. So, rather than toss n' turn, go! You can always catch 40 winks once the sun comes up...and we have.

Get plenty of sleep before you start up. If nerves or noise keep you from sleeping, just lie there and rest your body. There is absolutely no need to start at midnight or 2:00 AM. If you are that slow, you probably won't make the summit anyway. Get some rest and don't start up before 3:00 or 4:00.

I just want to scream when well-meaning people say, "climb high, sleep low" and then recommend sleeping in Lone Pine. You need to acclimatize. To do that, you need to hike AND sleep as high as your body will allow for as long as your schedule will allow. The best sleeping altitude is the highest altitude at which you don't get sick. I'm 31 and 0 on Whitney, and I always sleep at the portal (if the road is open).

Some people actually plan to do the hike at night. I've read several websites about just that. They try to time their permit for the full moon, and hike it starting at midnight with the expressed intention of being as high as they can be towards the summit by sunrise.

We're thinking about trying it in September, but since it will be planned, obviously we can revolve our sleeping habits for the week before the hike around it.

Ditto + @ti2d

#1 : From what I know (less than some, more than others) you can leave around 10:00 or so, planning on entering the Whitney Zone around 12:00. Take your time. Yes, permits "may" get checked.

#2 : Usually there is parking. I would try to get there in the morning the day before you hike and get a spot. Talk to the locals and other hikers and especially DOUG at the Portal Store.
**** IMPORTANT **** DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING IN YOUR VEHICLE THAT LOOKS LIKE FOOD, WATER, ETC. NOT EVEN SUNSCREEN, BAGS OR CONTAINERS!!!! BEARS WILL FIND A WAY IN AND THEY WILL EAT ANYTHING.
I've seen lots of bears in the parking lot, camping areas, etc. They are not shy. They will find your food wherever it is. Per above: DO NOT Leave food in a campsite and do not leave your pack more than 5 feet away. I have had a bear come within 6 or so feet of me at 2:00 A.M. and not even know it until someone told me.

#3 : Rattlesnakes, NO. Bears, YES, Marmots, YES, Mice, YES. Be Very careful of the Grouse.....they will attack (just ask Laura :-0)

#4 : I prefer to camp at the Portal.

Most of all, take your time and enjoy the hike. It can be brutal, but it is certainly a great experience. And, bring your camera. Lots of luck.

#3A Pica. Yes!

While lot's of folks like the full moon, I like the new moon. I've done it both ways. I guess I like the stars more than I like the moon.

Coming up from Guitar Lake one year, I watch the moon set behind Mt. Hitchcock 7 times.

I used to prefer full moon dayhikes...not anymore...

The waning gibbous is my fave now. Rise later in the evening or early morning.

New moon...never done that...under the canopy of the Milky Way...gonna have to try it!

Who me!?

I tend to prefer areas that I've been before and am familiar with on the new moon. You're right, wbtravis, the stars are a better viewing experience than the moon on most nights.

>> #3A Pica. Yes!

> Who me!?

Hope you don't mind, Joel, I "borrowed" part of your pica picture.

I will say I was a little neverous...not quite to pucker, going from Lower Trail Crest to the summit the first new moon trip. That was trip #4 over this terrain but my partner had none of those feeling and it was his first time up to Whitney.

Two years ago, my usual partner in crime told me to lower my just re-batteried headlight down as we started towards the summit from Lower Trail Crest.

I still do both but my preference is for new moon hikes/backpacks.

I can never find the trail up the rocks right after Mirror Lake, lights or Moon. I got lucky one time as someone passed me like they knew where they were going.

The Pika is adorable! Gary and I saw one last year in our camp at Consultation Lake. He (the Pika, not Gary) was picking up little grasses and nearly ran between my legs as I was photographing him.

It depends on the interpretation of what is the "trailhead." People are not supposed to enter any trailhead before midnight on the day of the permit. Since the main Mount Whitney Trail starts at Whitney Portal and the day hike permits used to be issued for the main Mount Whitney Trail, the original argument was that you should not be on the trail before midnight. Now that day hike permits are issued for the Whitney Zone, an argument can be made that the trailhead is wherever the route (MMWT or NF) enters the Whitney Zone. Lone Pine Lake is still in the John Muir Wilderness, and you cannot camp "overnight" without an overnight permit. You also cannot sleep on the trail with a day hike permit.

Since no permits are required up to Lone Pine Lake (which is a short distance before the beginning of the Whitney Zone on the MT), the issue of what time you are allowed to hike up to that point on your permit (which you don't have, because you don't need it) is moot.

Since whenever the Whitney Zone has existed in its current form, has anyone had a permit checked between the TH and Lone Pine Lake?

CaT

Not checked exactly. But I have regularly run into rangers hiking up and down the trail. My permit is always hanging off my pack with my entry date written in marker in huge letters.

I've not anyone check it in that section of trail, but I doubt a ranger would as a permit isn't required.

I haven't had any ranger check my permit in at last 5 years, and I do Whitney at least twice a year via the main trail. It may be just luck of the draw, but my sense is that they have a greatly reduced presence due to lower funding.

There is a "tent" off-trail before you get to Bighorn. Ranger residence. Do not distrub.

You see rangers checking overnight permits at Outpost Camp. They come out of nowhere. Friendly chat at first, but be sure you are trail legal.

Rangers know the "shortcuts" on the trail while minimizing impact on the vegetation. Yes, they practice what they preach. They come out from out of nowhere.

You will see them at the Lone Pine Lake junction. It doesn't hurt to stop and chat with them. You will see them on the trail between John Muir Junction and the summit, but they are not the Inyo variety. Rangers work closely no matter where they are from.

Exactly as you describe, 'tude: both times that I have been on the Main Trail, I encountered the "stealth" ranger at the spot you mention. Bob R. was there to do all the chatting, so I did not have to say or do anything (I am not that great at trail chat)

in the four times that I have been on the MMWT, I have never seen a Ranger.

Last year, at trail crest I noticed that I had left my tag on my backpack and didn't transfer it to my daypack. I figured that if I was confronted, that the ranger might cut me a break. But otherwise, it was a little bit too late to turn back to get the tag.

Long story short...no ranger, so no worries....this time.

Am familiar with its location - as you say, close to Outpost Camp.

Any advice given by @ti2d is righteous in my book. He coached me through my first attempt up Whitney (made me feel like a hero for aborting the trip to bring my horribly ill daughter back down) and my second attempt the following year which found me dancing at the summit. Hitting the trail around midnight worked well for us in a couple of ways:
1) it ensures a much cooler hike
2) it's a good way to beat any possible afternoon t-storms
3) coming down when most everyone is still coming up is a great energy boost, both mentally and physically
4) hiking in the dark at first makes for a more interesting hike coming down, especially after Trail Camp. You see meadows, waterfalls, etc that you didn't know existed going up!

The only draw back I found was that the last never-ending 3 miles to the Portal are in the heat of the day.

And keep in mind they all carry radios, so can call the VC to check whether you have a permit or not. Personally, I would not stop a summit bid on Whitney - or other mountain - if a tag got separated from my pack. I don't recall ever seeing a tag blowing in the wind on Whitney, but have seen several on Mt. St. Helens.

Kandy,

That last 3 miles is never ending any time of the day. The first time I did it a between 8 and 9 PM. I asked a couple how much longer to the Portal and they said 45 minutes...I figured I was about 10 minutes out.

wbtravis,
I was convinced that someone had moved the parking lot down the mountain towards Lone Pine while we were hiking. It wasn't any better the second time either . . . those last 3 miles are simply the most unending, brain-teasing, strength sapping ever! But as soon as you enter the Portal, it all just melts away!

Even taking the shortcut at the JM Wilderness sign doesn't seem to speed things up that much. But at least you bypass the NF water crossing when tired and ready for the day to be over.

The last 3 miles is an interesting phenomenon. I don't think it is unique to MWMT. I have experienced the same on many, perhaps every, a yo-yo day hike I can remember. Most recently on the AR. How can this stretch be so beautiful on the way up and the cause of so much suffering on the way down? No way are you more pumped for the hike any time as you are in those first 3 miles, or as tired and ready for the B&B* as on the last.

It could be an E ride and still be agonizing.

My strategy at this point is to descend at the same rate I came up, rest, and take in everything I might have missed the first time around. Its not often you get such a second chance late in the game.





*Burger & Beer, Bed & Breakfeast, Bed & _______, Benedectine & Brandy, Brioche & Bordeaux . . .

Joe you are right that is a very tough section to stay on the trail at night.I had to do it without my own headlamp in the dark after summiting Whitney heading back to basecamp at Outpost.Lots of false and off trail, trails.

The Counting Switchbacks section of this thread has been given its own topic.

Posts following the last one above can be found here:  Counting Switchbacks

I too have been told both answers for a starting time, but let's be honest here.

1. There is NEVER going to be a ranger checking permits at or near midnight. They don't have the staff.

2. You CAN NOT be ticketed for not having a valid permit below the sign.

3. If somehow there IS a ranger checking permits at or around midnight AND he/she does give you a ticket BELOW the sign, enjoy your day in court making them eat crow. You can legally hike up to the sign any time day or night. You must have a valid permit to enter the Whitney Zone (past the sign).

Start anytime you want. Once you go past the sign you are required to have a permit. Odds of getting it checked before breakfast are slim. I have slightly more "legal" summits of Whitney than "illegal" no permit summits. I'm older and wiser and try to always follow the rules now. Still, I am rarely checked for some reason.

Last year my first day hike and my MR trip were without the "Cattle tags". They didn't have them at the ranger station yet so they sent us out old school with the paper permits to put in our pocket. We passed many rangers and were never asked for a permit. Though the MR was with RichardP and I don't think they check him much.

What I use for a successful day hike is simple. I get to the Portal as early as possible the day before. I try to make it in time for the pancake. I nap and eat lunch at the Portal. I BS with Doug and the regulars as much as possible and then get another nap. If it's just me or me and the boy we roll out around 3 or 4 am. (We usually sleep in the parking lot behind the store but you need permission to do that) If I'm leading rookies I get them up at 0100 and on the trail by 0200. I lead until we pass LPL so the pace isn't too fast. Then I get the group's weak link to lead us to Outpost. Before Outpost I brief on respectful use of headlamps and we blow through. I keep the group together, always. One person fails, we all fail. I try to hike for 50-60 minutes and rest them 5. We take a good 15 minute break at Trail Camp and make sure everyone is ready. Then I lead us out and up the switchbacks to set a slow pace. I try to go 30-40 minutes and rest 5. I keep everyone snacking and drinking during those 5 minutes and drinking the whole way up. If it's not too windy we take another 10 at Trail Crest. Then 10 minutes to rest at the summit and 20-30 for pics. Then we head down.

It's never a fast trip, but so far I've been 100% successful no matter who I take.

Leave when you want, hike slow and easy and take some pics. Your body is resting while you stop to take that pic.

Remember - there are 24 hours in a day. Use as many as you need. Assuming the weather allows of course...............DUG

Beesides, I think that it would bee a nice addition to the trip scrapbook to have a ticket dated at midnight on the Whitney Trail.....think of the mileage that you would get out of that story

Some day I'll tell you the story of when I was ticketed TWICE on the same day. Good times..................................................DUG

DUG,

A noob would be wise to take your plan seriously. You can't beat a 100% success rate.

Rangers have a way of knowing who has a permit and who doesn't. When five of us day-hiked Shasta from the North, a ranger was waiting on the summit. Only four of us had permits. The ranger busted the guy without a permit, and never even asked the rest of us whether we had them.

Jedi Rangers missed me a few times back in the 90's. They got me good in 99 though - twice in one day. That's what really made me believe in karma and straighten out my permitless ways.

I had some nasty run ins on day hikes when I was farther back than the ranger thought I should/could be, but they always let me continue on. Many times when the hike went bad and we came in late (over 24 hours) I wondered if they would have someone waiting at the trail head, but that's dehydration and sleep deprivation thinking there.

My advice is to always follow the letter of the law. Never mind the spirit of the law though, that's open for interpretation. .....................................................DUG