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#1602 - 01/08/10 05:45 PM The Web Cam
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7719
Loc: Fresno, CA
Today Doug terminated our web cam setup. The last picture was taken at 1:57 PM, and my laptop went off-line around 4 PM.

I heard from Mike from Sebectec software that Doug emailed saying "that he needs help to setup the camera again since he is now taking over the webcam operation".

In fact, I was trying to log onto the remote laptop to re-display a good shot from this morning, and for the first time, it was off line.

So then I called the Hostel, and talked to Nick at the desk. Nick ran up the ladder to the third floor and found Doug had pulled the wires to the camera back through the wall -- no wires to the camera any more. Nick told me Doug was "working on it" and that he had just left.

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#1603 - 01/08/10 06:42 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Steve C]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
That's not cool. I thought we - the WHA - funded it. What happens now? Who actually owns the hardware?

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#1605 - 01/08/10 08:39 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bulldog34]
Rod Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Santa Clarita, Ca. USA
You know I am not surprised. A few days ago someone on the WPSMB asked where Bob R was.An answer from someone inocently said Bob R had just posted a TR on Whitney Hikers Association board. I said to myself that Doug Sr. would read that and see red. I honestly expected something like this after reading that.

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#1606 - 01/08/10 09:26 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Rod]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7719
Loc: Fresno, CA
I called the Hostel tonight and spoke to Doug. I asked what happened to the web cam. He said he took it down, and was going to put up his own. I asked about my equipment, and he said he would send it to me. I said he should just keep it, and I'd come over and pick it up.

I asked if he had a camera, and he said he had another Olympus 500. Said he got it off of ebay, just like I did. Then I asked what computer he would use, and he said he'd use the one that was running before -- his laptop.

It was a very short conversation, and several times times he said "OK, I'll see you", and I asked another question.

Anybody know someone in Lone Pine willing to host another webcam?

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#1608 - 01/09/10 07:18 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Rod]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
Rod, the same thought ran through my mind when I saw that post. Guess we can't all play well in this particular sandbox. It's a shame - it should be viewed more as a partnership than a competiton. Steve's done everything humanly possible to steer the WHA in that direction.

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#1609 - 01/09/10 07:36 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bulldog34]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 595
Loc: Manchester, NH
Any chance that whatever caused the rift amongst the various parties can be resolved so that the rest of us who neither know nor care about the details aren't drawn into what is becoming a very public dispute?

Just a suggestion ...

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#1610 - 01/09/10 08:44 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Steve C]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 832
Loc: Oh Cursed, USA
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Anybody know someone in Lone Pine willing to host another webcam?


Well, it is his hostel...his business...legally speaking, of course. As long as the equipment is returned in "working order." BTW, I am not an attorney.

How about asking Dow Villa? Good promotional for them.

Bottom line, it is a shame that all of this is over a camera...intellectual property.

I guess it is best to take the webcam down indefinitely. If anyone wants to see this majestic mountain, they will just have to come out here and see it themselves provided they aren't pointing at Lone Pine Peak. whistle

I guess seeing "Mecca West" everyday when I open up both websites, is sensory overload. My wife and I haven't seen "our" beloved mountain in over two years. Before I got re-married, whenever I frequented the area I would look west or east depending on what direction I was on the 395 and gloat, "I was up there." After my wife and I climbed MW in celebration of our first anniversary (07-14-07, climb 07-17-08) with our good friend BruinDave and we took that left off Whitney Portal Road the next day and headed north on the 395.

We were up there...

Steve, if you can obtain the best shot of MW then post it on the WHA website. In fact, how about a montage (or whatever you call it) of the various seasons on the mountain.

If that is not possible, so be it. I'd rather read the TRs of the first-timers and take it all in or chuckle once in a while over their exploits or offer "sage" advice to any and all questions they have. I, too, take everyone's experience and apply it to my own.

I want to see their photos of their "moment in time" and their moment of triumph over tragedy, over limitations, over fear. I want to see their smiling faces.

Simplicity...I like that. Life is too short, so there is a lot to do.

Well, the lottery will be soon upon us...My wife and I hope to be selected to grace the flanks of our beloved mountain once again.

Have fun.
_________________________
Have fun and enjoy the Gr8 Yd Opn.

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#1611 - 01/09/10 10:17 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: + @ti2d]
CaT Offline


Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Blacklick, OH (formerly SoCal)
Actually, the direct unbroken view of Whitney from the Best Western Frontier has always been pretty good, too. They've been there for a long time and are doing well. Another option.
_________________________
If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)

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#1612 - 01/09/10 10:31 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: + @ti2d]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Contact info for the Mount Whitney Restaurant:

760-876-5751
227 S Main St
Lone Pine, CA 93545

No e-address found. It's right across from the Hostel.

You can use Google maps & street view to get an idea of what the view would be from the roof.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#1613 - 01/09/10 10:34 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: CaT]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Contact info for Best Western:
www.bestwesterncalifornia.com

1008 South Main Street
Lone Pine, CA 93545-3010
(760) 876-5571
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#1614 - 01/09/10 10:38 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: CaT]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Contact info for the Dow Villa:
310 South Main Street
Lone Pine, CA 93545

(760) 876-5521

dowvillamotel.com
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#1616 - 01/09/10 05:56 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bee]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7719
Loc: Fresno, CA
Well, we can wait and see how successful Doug is. He can always get help.

As for Lone Pine, there are a lot of areas that wouldn't work -- that hill with the L is in the way anywhere north. And places on Main street might have problems with the overhead electrical wires being in the way.

What's sad for me is that I can't work on the web cam project any more. I was planning on setting up a daily time lapse video, which Mike as Sebectec is helping with. Unfortunately, creating this web site has taken up lots of time.

Regarding that message from CMC answering where Bob R was, THAT was not a triggering event at all. Doug has apparently been planning on this for some time, since he has gone to eBay to bid on, and then win a camera identical to the one we have installed. (So Ernie, do not feel bad.)

Heading out to meet wagga for pizza right now, will write more later...

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#1619 - 01/09/10 09:22 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bee]
Rod Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 660
Loc: Santa Clarita, Ca. USA
It still makes me sad that it has come to this.I don't get it.Steve thanks for all the time,money and equipment to provide us all with so much pleasure looking at the MW webcam. That was something I looked forward to many times everyday.The webcam really made me feel connected to Whitney daily.I miss it already.Thank goodness for the photo that is still posted.

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#1620 - 01/09/10 10:43 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: KevinR]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7719
Loc: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted By: KevinR
Any chance that whatever caused the rift amongst the various parties can be resolved so that the rest of us who neither know nor care about the details aren't drawn into what is becoming a very public dispute?

Just a suggestion ...

I need to reply to this....

Kevin, this rift began last spring, maybe before. But first some history: Three years ago, Doug turned his site over to me to moderate and upgrade. I spent a huge amount of time (unpaid) working with Qnet and UBB, first moving the board over to a new server (since the old would not support the new database software), then upgrading to the new message board software. Moderating involved removing some tired trolls as well. I cannot count the number of times people thanked me or commented how much better the forum was compared to years past.

More than a year ago, I also worked on the web cam setup, acquiring and installing software, buying a camera on ebay, and working on an installation. I sent it all over to Doug, and wagga and I walked Doug through the installation steps for the initial install. Then on the group hike weekend, we installed an even better camera and a better mounting setup, with wiring through the wall, and the camera mounts bolted to the side of the hostel.

About the same time Doug turned the board to me, VersatileFred was creating and compiling his extensive Orientation Notes and other work so new hikers could quickly and easily find all the valuable information that is buried in the forum. It quickly turned into the most heavily visited information on the forum. I have seen SO many people writing how invaluable his Orientation Notes have been.

Unfortunately, last spring Doug began lashing out against Fred and several others who often posted helpful answers for the newbie queries. Many times it was simply to point them to the topic within Fred's work. At one point, he banned VersatileFred. Privately, I pointed out to Doug that Fred's work had over 50,000 hits in just two years! But he ignored all of that, and requested that I remove all of Fred's work.

So with the support of some of the message board members, we contributed the money required to start this new site. The Orientation Notes are here and some of the helpful threads have been moved over, but there is still much more to do.

After removing all the helpful info, Doug commented to me that he thought the board was running better. He went on to say the old software was better, and his original web cam setup (before my time) was better than what we had currently. (It was some sort of video camera hooked to a computer that stopped working when his computer died.)

By the way, several times, I mentioned to Doug that we were setting up a new site with a forum and Fred's work. The second time was the group hike weekend. Both times, he acknowledged, and said "That's ok."

Then, several weeks after the group hike excitement died down, I posted an announcement on wpsmb about our new site, stating that the Whitney Hikers Association was working in tandem with Doug and the Hostel to support the web cam.

Doug hit the roof, posted a short statement that he was not cooperating and that he was the owner of the hostel and store. I saw his statement the next morning and spoke with him on the phone. He said I was trying to take away 15 years of his work, and that he was going to remove me from wpsmb and remove the web cam. So he has acted on that.

I am not sure what he is more angry about, that another site was using the web cam running from his building, or that there is now a second Whitney forum. I guess that doesn't matter.

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#1626 - 01/10/10 03:28 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Steve C]
Joel M. Baldwin Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Sacramento Ca USA
My webcam archive is down at the moment.

This is completely unrelated to the webcam itself going down. It is a coincidence that it was the same day. Unfortunately my archive went down about an hour before the webcam, so I don't have the last images.

I'll get the archive back up as soon as I can.

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#1627 - 01/10/10 07:17 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Joel M. Baldwin]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
There is software that seems to randomly throw up a pic each time you look. Tumblr?
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#1628 - 01/10/10 07:22 AM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Steve C]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Unfortunately, last spring Doug began lashing out against Fred and several others who often posted helpful answers for the newbie queries. Many times it was simply to point them to the topic within Fred's work. At one point, he banned VersatileFred. Privately, I pointed out to Doug that Fred's work had over 50,000 hits in just two years! But he ignored all of that, and requested that I remove all of Fred's work.


This is the part I just don't get. Why - WHY - would Doug take such a stance?! These resources were what drew me to the WPSMB in the first place, as I'm sure has been the case for many, many others. They are invaluable to a first-timer, and have probably prevented a number of bad or possibly fatal mistakes. Without them, newbies have to register on WPSMB and ask their questions (probably Doug's motivation), but won't get anything approaching the scope of information these notes provide for a safe Whitney experience - assuming they get any responses of substance at all.

Personally, I view this as bordering on recklessness - sacrificing immensely helpful information to drive, presumably, more message board traffic and membership. For a man who is in many ways a Whitney legend, and knows the dangers the mountain holds as well as anyone alive, it simply makes no damn sense!

If 12,000 people attempt Whitney each year (a number that sticks out in my mind, but I can't recall where I read it), several thousand are probably trying it for the first time, and I'm betting many of those have little to no high altitude hiking/climbing experience. The wealth of information in Fred's orientation notes is an absolute bonanza for these folks. Knowing full well how critical - and accessed - these notes were, removing them strikes me as dangerously irresponsible and in direct opposition to the core principles of such a message board - information sharing.

Again, Steve, Fred, wagga and others responsible for creating and maintaining the WHA/Zone - thank you. I'd much rather be part of this type of board - one with a real, guiding mission - than on the fringes of someone else's Cool Club, looking in from the outside. As long as the door is always open - in deed as well as word, particularly for newbies - I'm sure the Zone will continue to grow and prosper, webcam or no.

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#1630 - 01/10/10 02:51 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bulldog34]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 595
Loc: Manchester, NH
Seems like a pretty sorry state of affairs to me.

Am glad the FAQ's are available online somewhere. On a per capita basis, I've seem more inexperienced people on the MWT than any other peak I've ever hiked. The reason for that is obvious, but the fact there are FAQ's which some might read means that a few will benefit from them.

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#1632 - 01/10/10 04:05 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: KevinR]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Doug Sr. has snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory.

He had a super visitor draw on the site, with no time, energy or money needed to install & maintain it.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#1639 - 01/10/10 07:46 PM Re: The Web Cam [Re: Bee]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7719
Loc: Fresno, CA
Well, apparently Doug fired up his old computer and his new camera, and got it working yesterday.

It's running on Sebectec software coupled with software that I wrote. wink

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