Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Mt Whitney summit in first week of November..??

Hello all, i just would like some advice , on the possibility of doing a 2 day early November Mt Whitney ascent. I blew my trip from cottonwood pass to mt whitney, due to the fact i took Diamox prior to my departure, it caused dizzyness and other complications...AND i overloaded my pack. I want to get back , ASAP and get up there again. My thought is this: No required mt whitney lottery, and IF there is no substantial snow on the ground and....IF there are no storms brewing around November 3-5, i was planning on spending a night at the portal, then cimbing to trail camp on the next day, then summit and head back to the portal. Any thoughts on this....??? I have an ice axe, and microspikes in case i may need them, but no full crampons....any information on this would be great...Thanks.

If you want to get back ASAP, how about getting a walk in permit? Midweek generally is no problem, and even primetime weekend permits are doable. Some great weather coming up ahead... I was skeptical, though folks here kept mentioning it, until I showed up on Friday in late July last year on a lark, and scored an overnight permit for a prime weekend. Especially if you are flexible (i.e, ready to show up two days in a row, go somewhere else for a dayhike if you lose out the first day), you should be able to get a permit before the snowstorms start to hit.

Norcal: I wouldn't blame your dizziness on Diamox, unless you took way too much. (125 mg twice a day is the max I have seen advised for altitude.) It is more likely a result of your body's reaction to the altitude and pack weight.

I wouldn't aim for November. Last year, the first snows hit the end of September. It will be cold and days are quite short, making for many hours of darkness.

The walk-in permit option is far better. Check the Unused Whitney Permits 2010 page. You can see for overnights, from August 23 on, there was always at least one overnight permit available except for 4 dates.

And those numbers are after ALL walk-ins ALL day long were satisfied. If you are there at 11 a.m. when they make the no-shows available, you have even better chances.

I never reserve any permits for anything I do in the Sierra. Other than Muir Trail from Happy Isles in peak season, I have always been able to get what I wanted as a walk in on the first try, including Whitney.

Worst thing that could happen is you spend another day acclimating before you get the permit.

Ok that is great information. I just may try that walk in option. As far as the diamox, the prescription was for 500mg 1/day. I have never been that dizzy on any hikes i have been on, including a summit of mt dana(13,053) I will check out the unused permit page. Thanks for the advice, this gives me some more options. The november option would have been pretty risky, and since i am not fully prepared for winter conditions..it would not have been a good option..

There is a lot of debate about dosage, though that seems on the high end (was it time release?). Obviously, an issue for medical professionals, which I am not. For me, I have found that 62.5 mg before going to bed is all I need to address my specific issue (Cheyne Stokes breathing).

My brother and I were both prescribed Diamox 250mg/2 x day, 500 mg total a day starting the day before arriving in elevation...could it have been overkill? I don't know, but our plan was to take as many variables out of play that we could to give us the best chance to summit (which we did). We both came from sea level and acclimated one night at Horseshoe Meadows (10,000ft) and one night at the Portal and had zero issues with altitude and we were also very well hydrated and very well fed! :-) Also, a good idea may be try it out days prior to gauge your reaction or lack there of to it.
This is certainly not the universal formula here, because everything differs when it comes to different people, medications, circumstances, age, conditions, etc...but personally, I don't like to leave home without it and take the chance of having issues up there. Good luck this year!

norcalhiker67,

Caveat: Not a doctor.

While your Rx may have been for 500mg 2x day (the full Rx'd dose), see the following informative discussion on Diamox and dosages on the other board. Ken (referred to at the beginning of the thread) is a doctor, if memory serves.

From my reading of numerous posts on this topic over the years on both boards, it has been my observation that, more often than not, 125mg 2x day, or even 62.5mg 2x day (depending on body weight) can be effective for dealing with altitude issues, and with fewer (or even no) side effects, when compared to taking the full Rx'd dose. Also, people who do take it, usually begin taking it a day or two ahead of time to get it in their system.

CaT

From CaT's link, quoting Harvey Lankford:


The subtitle of the High Altitude Medicine Guide is "Altitude Illness Clinical Guide For Physicians".

An excellent source.

Another good source is here. Scroll down to the section beginning with the title "AMS and ACETAZOLAMIDE (trade name: DIAMOX)", and read on. Or perhaps also do a search on "mg" (without the quotes) and read each sentence where a reference to xxx mg of Diamox turns up throughout the article.

CaT

Every year is different, we've hiked up the trail 3 or 4 times that particular weekend and have been in the Sierra mid-October and later a bunch.

There has been snow on the trail that made the Trailside Meadow to Consultation Lake section of the trail pucker dangerous...twice. We've walked on Lone Pine Lake once. We have seen a monster storm roll in at Trail Camp but on the return Whitney Portal the conditions could not have been calmer.

It's a fun time, if you don't put yourself in the jackpot.

As for Diamox and AMS...everyone is different. 125 mg. twice a day is a good starting point for someone just starting to use the drug. I am adversely affected by taking this drug that way.

In my small sampling, friends and acquaintances, I have found everyone is affected differently...I have zero problems day hiking to SoCal high peaks but some of my friends are debilitated walking up the Ski Hut Trail to Mt. Baldy. I have had problems as low as 7,500' overnight and regularly AMS problems while taking Diamox.

There are no cookie cutter solutions to this problem. It takes time to figure out what dosing regiment works best for you.

A P.S. on dosage for women of slighter frames.

I saw a doctor who specializes in high altitude medicine before I started doing these types of hikes last year. His recommendation for me (female, 135 lbs), was 62.5 mg/twice a day. That is, the "recommended dosage" on the internet does not necessarily take in sex, weight, etc. I had some minor side effects even at that dosage, and based on my specific circumstances, after talking with some folks on this board and doing some more research, I reduced to 62.5mg taken only once a day before sleep. I do not take any diamox prior to the trip -- given my situation, I only take it the night before sleeping at elevation in excess of 10,000 feet, and that is the only dose I will take unless I am sleeping at a higher elevation the next night. I still get minor side effects at this reduced dosage (minor hand tingling the next morning), but nothing that interferes with my enjoyment of the mountain. Cutting the dosage further made sense for me because my issues occur only at night (which, I've read, is the biggest challenge to acclimatization generally); your experience may differ.

Personally if I ever had any side effects from diamox I wouldn't take it. I think it is fine for those that know they need it and have taken it successfully. It is not for everyone.It only helps one acclimate but is not a substitute for proper acclimation which is extended time at altitude.When I summited MW I had diamox in my pack but never needed it nor would I take it prophylactically.

well, regarding all the very useful information on Diamox, i think i probably will never take it again! I have never had any major high altitude effects, and i thought it would help...i still may try doing a November "day" hike of Mt Whitney, only if there is either no, or little snow, and if the weather is good. I was just hoping to get back there, this year..somehow. I live about 300 miles from the portal, so showing up in the hopes of getting an unused permit, would be quite a risk, for that long drive. My thought: day hike, travel light, no diamox, maybe stay at the portal 1 night, and see what happens...is the portal even open that late in the season...???

Norcal, if you are day hiking, there are even more unused permits, even on weekends. Check the unused permits page. Unless you MUST hike on a Saturday, I could practically guarantee you a permit any day in September.

Just be aware, in the last half of October last year, there was a hairy rescue of day hikers who hiked to the top, then called for a rescue. This occurred Oct 18-21.

I come from Ohio (slightly more than 300 miles), and always get a walk-in permit. If you haven't had any AMS issues to date, I wouldn't worry about Diamox, although everyone is different, and on occasion, it is possible that someone who has had no issues with AMS so far could randomly have an issue with it; but that's probably more the exception than the rule. In November, weather will likely be your main concern. Some years, there is no snow until very late in the year, although that is also probably the exception. The store is closed that late, but the "portal" (meaning the trailhead area itself) is always "open", although if the weather doesn't cooperate, the road leading up to the portal may be closed by then, which means you would have to walk up to the portal before even beginning your hike at the trailhead.

CaT

There are so many variables to deal with when hiking Whitney -- including altitude, personal fitness, trail conditions, weather, nearby fires, length of visible sunlight, and potentially routefinding if it has snowed, or snows while you are on the mountain. It sounds like you are thinking of doing this hike by yourself, which adds another dimension. At least during peak season, there are lots of people on the trail, and people often help each other when issues small and large arise.

My first time up Whitney was last July (2010). Permitless, I drove the 370 miles from the Bay Area to Whitney with my dog. Got a walk in (overnight) permit for a Friday entry in peak season in July. Had a nice time camping at Outpost Camp. My pup and I went up to Trail Camp, scoped it out, talked to people. Then we hiked back down, got my tent and stuff, and left the portal. An unexpected but lovely 1-night trip learning the mountain before my September 2010 summit trip.

The point is, with a little flexibility, you WILL score a permit while the weather is still good, other people are on the trail, and routefinding and snowskills are not an issue, particularly if you go midweek. That way, you can eliminate some of the variables that could otherwise pose significant challenges (and potential risks) to a first attempt.

As a PS to my previous post, you can always call and reserve a permit for $15 for a specific date if you really want to make sure you'll have one; but I wouldn't waste my money, since walk-in permits are usually available.

CaT

> you can always call and reserve a permit for $15 for a specific date if you really want to make sure you'll have one

That is ONLY if there is one available, which depends on when you call, and whether someone has called in and released their permit. Most people who get one this way call in repeatedly in the week before they hike.