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Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
Ken #23777 05/09/12 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ken
Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
1) think curb feelers for cars. Remember those?


God, you're old.

I remember them well!

smile

Sadly, so do I. My grandfather had them on his Studebaker.

CaT


If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)
Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
CaT #23782 05/09/12 10:59 AM
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oh what the heck, I'll weigh in on this one....

I like one trekking pole going up and two going down.

I shorten the pole going up and lengthen them going down.

And I pretty much only use them where there is a step of some sort.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
tdtz #23784 05/09/12 11:41 AM
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But do yours have curb feelers? grin

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
saltydog #23785 05/09/12 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
...So yes, I use poles now. I just refuse to do it correctly.


For some of us - me included - the correct way is the way which works for us as individuals. Mostly I leave them the same length going up was well as down, unless it's very steep, and then I shorten them on the up's, and lengthen them on the down's. When it's mostly level and even, I hold them in my hand as I can hike slightly faster without them.

If there's any "correctness" in technique, I'd say it has more to do with how the strap is used. Like a ski pole, I put my hand UNDER the strap first, and then grip the pole - when the strap is the right length (longer if wearer mitts or gloves - it "locks" my wrist into the pole. A few long-time users I know won't use the straps at all, fearing they'll break/strain their wrist or arm if they do. For me, NOT using that technique increases the risk of not being able to plant them quickly to break a fall.

Sorta like should I use a leash on my ice axe or not. You can make a strong case either way. Fortunately, the Trail Police aren't checking compliance on either point.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
Steve C #23792 05/09/12 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
But do yours have curb feelers? grin


and tassles on the handles and a big ole horn.

kinda like the PeeWee Herman bicycle of trekking poles.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
KevinR #23795 05/09/12 02:37 PM
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Quote:
A few long-time users I know won't use the straps at all, fearing they'll break/strain their wrist or arm if they do.

I would be in this group, but mostly because I don't like the feel of something around my wrist, and if I need to drop the poles very quickly for some reason, that's impossible to do with the straps on. But mostly, I feel less constrained in my overall use of the poles when not using the straps. Just personal preference. I've tried it both ways. If I could get rid of the straps on my pair, I would.

CaT


If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)
Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
saltydog #23817 05/09/12 06:33 PM
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Dawg, I used them much the same as you mention.

But it does depend. I want them shorter for ascent, and longer for descent.

When I have up-and-down, I adjust by moving the ground contact point sideways to effectively shorten the pole, or moving it closer to my track to lengthen it.....without adjusting the pole, itself.

I have never understood the technique that is like the older cross-country poles, that are neck high with the points next to your foot. Makes no sense for hiking.

Last edited by Ken; 05/09/12 06:35 PM.
Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
CaT #23818 05/09/12 06:55 PM
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David, that's what I meant about using the wrist-straps properly. There are a number of situations where the wrist-straps just have to come off due to the increased probability of a fall (and that broken wrist), or being pulled off-balance by the straps: snow and ice, water crossings (even going over stepping stones or logs), and unstable terrain (the last 1000 feet of Mt. Dana comes to mind).

However, when you're chugging along on reasonably stable terrain, those straps can take a tremendous amount of strain away from your hands. I often see hikers using poles with what I think of as a "death grip" - a white-knuckled clinch that just cannot be comfortable - or stable. I also see hikers with two poles telescoped up to chest level (even shoulder-level) and, again, cannot imagine how they're comfortable or stable like that.

But it's personal preference. I like mine scoped to just above my waist when I'm climbing, and a little longer when descending. I keep a light 3-finger grip on the handle and allow the wrist-strap to do the lion's share of the work. That's what's worked for me for about 10 years, and they feel like a natural extension of my body.

Another take on the mental aspect of it: we bought trekking poles for our daughter Brianne when she was six, and she pretty much rebeled against them for years. She tended to face-plant from time to time (the typical looking-over-your-shoulder-to-talk-while-hiking syndrome), so I kept after her to use them. It was a running battle to get her to use the poles (especially properly in rhythm instead of windmilling them around). I had almost given up. Last July we went up Kearsarge Pass with Laura, and there was still a ton of snow. Footing was often sketchy and Laura kept encouraging Bri (11 at the time) to use her poles, and use them properly for the conditions (straps off on snow, back on for the trail). Several hours of Moose-coaching ensued. Bri, of course, idolizes Laura and actually paid attention that day. The light bulb went on for her during that hike, and she's used her poles ever since without having to be pestered. One more penny in the I-O-Moose piggybank.

Trekking pole usefulness and technique can be debated and analyzed from now till doomsday, but in the end it boils down to mental attitude and personal preference. People that want to use them will, in whatever way suits them best, and others will not - till they take a bad fall or their knees start getting creaky. I think most folks who hike long enough wind up with poles eventually - and think to themselves, "why didn't I go here a lot earlier?!"

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
Bulldog34 #23819 05/09/12 07:56 PM
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Gary: I'll be sure to bring the ice tools with me next time Bri comes to visit...

It does boil down to personal preference, and also the conditions on which I'm playing at each moment. I've sometimes even found the poles helpful in larger boulder fields as extensions of my arms to balance points; only to have the tips slip on the boulders and I end up tumbling.

I tend to leave my straps off due to the simple fact that I am constantly flipping positions and grips while using the poles: choking up on traverses, putting two poles in one hand while scrambling, gripping the tops of the poles with the heels of my hands for stepping down. If I'm on a snow slope, imagine trying to arrest with the poles (not recommended, but possible) while the straps are on your wrists.

-L

PS: Gary, I was also working on Bri wearing her sunglasses that day. How did that work out? wink


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Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
saltydog #23821 05/09/12 08:04 PM
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I think the 'level' fitting came from the gentle(flat) trekking use. I use them in Grand Canyon (as do a lot of others); and I quickly figured out that adjusting them was A LOT MORE comfortable; and smarter than moving hands up and down the shafts.
When going down, they are adjusted to just below waist. So when I step down,the poles act as extensions of my arms; and my skeleton supports the transition of weight; and not my knees.

When I return to the rim, I shorten the poles 4-5 inches; so when I step up; the skeleton transfers the weight, not the quads,thighs and calves.

On the step up/downs that are 6-12 high/low; My palms are on top of the handle; easing the weight transition through the skeleton. The shoulders get a work out, and there is a technique that is quickly learned to do the weight transfer in a fluid motion. My legs thank me, and I hope to have my original knees, without braces; at 80.

Another bonus is the constant 3-4 points of contact; which when carrying a big back over uneven terrain, snow or scree- is alot more comforting.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
MooseTracks #23822 05/09/12 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
Gary: I'll be sure to bring the ice tools with me next time Bri comes to visit... <evil grin>


Gee. Thanks. Can't wait . . .


Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
PS: Gary, I was also working on Bri wearing her sunglasses that day. How did that work out? wink


Needs more work. Assuming she can even find the damn things.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
Bulldog34 #23837 05/10/12 07:11 AM
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Hey Gary!

For me, hiking pole straps are no different than a lanyard for a camera, the only purpose being to keep it in your personal possession in the event you accidentally lose your grip of the item (particularly helpful if you are near a drop-off). Unless I'm missing something, for me, there is no weight bearing mechanism involved in having the straps loosely hanging around your wrists, and thus, no weight bearing advantage to wearing them. Although I don't experience nearly the diversity of hiking situations as Laura (which comes with living in Ohio), nonetheless my reasons for not wearing the straps are similar to hers in principle.

CaT

PS - Hope your Dawgs do well. Richt is in the proverbial hot seat a little this year, I think.


If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracle of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it.
- Lyndon Johnson, on signing the Wilderness Act into law (1964)
Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
JAGCHiker #23841 05/10/12 08:52 AM
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JAGC: Yes that's my point, the conventional level fitting is wrong even for walking on the level. The point is implied in the medical report cited above: the leverage is wrong and it creates a twisting moment. To really take weight of the knees, the effort is much better expended it a single straight line nearer to the center of gravity, like a cane or crutch. Its fine out in front for balance or curb detection, but not for weight bearing.

I think the adjustments you use are about the same ones I do. I use the palms on top, too. In fact I am thinking of getting a pair with the cane handles like the Kaito Bt 409, which can be gripped either like a ski pole or cane. Hope I'll be doing the same at 80. Only 18 years to go


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
CaT #23845 05/10/12 09:01 AM
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David, here's a good video that kind of summarizes how I use poles. The wrist-strap and support benefit from it is detailed around the 1:30 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtV_KpYTw00&feature=channel&list=UL

I would say that the vast majority of the time I'm carrying 80-plus percent of the weight support the poles provide on my wrist versus my handgrip. Again, works for me but others see it differently.

Hotseat? Hmmm . . . we played in the SEC Championship game a few months ago, so the heat's a lot less than it was a year ago. He better win the SEC this upcoming season, though - this team is loaded. We'll have a top-5 defense again and there are offensive playmakers everywhere. Did you know OSU and UGA have scheduled a home-and-home a few years down the road? Gotta get to Columbus for that one wink

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
CaT #23849 05/10/12 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: CaT
For me, hiking pole straps are no different than a lanyard for a camera, the only purpose being to keep it in your personal possession in the event you accidentally lose your grip of the item (particularly helpful if you are near a drop-off). Unless I'm missing something, for me, there is no weight bearing mechanism involved in having the straps loosely hanging around your wrists, and thus, no weight bearing advantage to wearing them.

CaT, you ARE missing something! If you use the straps correctly, there is significant weight-bearing mechanism. Here's a video for skiers, but it applies to hiking poles, too. Note the strap extending under the hand between the wrist and little finger. That is where the weight is held.

When you use the straps correctly, there is no twist in them, either. They run smoothly from pole, around the hand and back to pole, without any twist. First time is confusing and complicated, but once you get used to putting on the straps, anything else will feel weird.

When I use my poles, I can relax my grip, and let the straps do most of the weight support. You have to adjust the tightness of the straps so they bear the weight while holding your hand at the right height position on the grips. And when I let go of the poles, the straps just move the poles away from the hands, so the hands are free for whatever is necessary.

Watch the video, (source) I think it will help:

How to Use Ski Poles -- powered by ExpertVillage.com

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
Steve C #23851 05/10/12 09:44 AM
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My experience with straps is like Steve's. Makes a huge difference.

I control the pole with my index finger alone. I am rarely gripping the handle with any force at all, in fact, my hand is partway open in a relaxed state, and the strap holds it against my hand, and the pole top grip ridge rests on my index finger.

I can control the movement of the pole by a simple "flick" of my finger, my other fingers are not really involved except as "limiters".

It is a fine-control type of maneuver.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
saltydog #23853 05/10/12 09:59 AM
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I have a couple of Komperdell Walking canes that I bought from www.sierratradingpost.com Item # 4847K for $38.95 discounted from $69.95 but this discounted price has been ongoing for years in spite of their claim that the items are being closed out.

Specs: Anti shock; 3 sections that collapse from 22 1/2" to 39": rotary tightening rather than the lever style, but I have had no trouble with them: weight is 9 oz each: NOT a pair but a single hiking cane, thus I bought 2; Made in Austria NOT China. Can use hand in two positions: as a cane or around the top as per a normal hiking pole. Has Strap.

Re: Are trekking poles necessary/recommended?
tdtz #23860 05/10/12 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: tdtz

and tassles on the handles and a big ole horn.

kinda like the PeeWee Herman bicycle of trekking poles.



tdtz, you mean something like these:



There not too many poles that are day glo yellow with orange racing strips out there.


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