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#26615 - 08/07/12 10:26 AM Permits Check
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Last year this wasn't an issue for us because our group all planned on summiting and we all hiked at a similar speed.

This year we have a larger group. Part of the group (including both the group leader and alternate leader) are not planning on summiting and will likely only go to trail camp or possibly trail crest at the furthest.

Is this going to be a problem as far our permit goes? If we get stopped by a ranger are we going to be sent back to the trailhead if our group/alt leader isn't with us?
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#26617 - 08/07/12 10:36 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
Should not be a problem. Each hiker needs to know the name of the group leader to provide the ranger if stopped ( they carry radios if they really want to check). You can also take a picture of the permit using an iPhone, etc, though I don't think that is expected or required!

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#26619 - 08/07/12 11:12 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: Akichow]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Oh Cursed, USA
In the past (before the green or yellow tags), I stayed at the Dow Villa and they were kind enough to photocopy my permit so I can give it to members of my group in case we get separated.

Now, I don't do that...waste of paper.

During our 07-25-12 hike, we did not encounter a ranger.

The Inyo Rangers normally are around the Lone Pine Lake/MWT junction, Outpost Camp, and even seen around Trail Camp.

The Sequoia/Kings Canyon Rangers can be found on "Hypoxia Highway" (between the JMT/HST junction and the summit).

All rangers appreciate honest answers. They can sense when a "false fact" is uttered.

Be very very wary of a wainjer named Bob R. :whistle: :grin:

Have fun.
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#26629 - 08/07/12 12:37 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: + @ti2d]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Thanks for the info. Last year we didn't see any rangers on Whitney or on our training hikes, but on lots of hikes (dollar lake, san g, taquitz, etc) this year we've been stopped by rangers.


Edited by 63ChevyII.com (08/07/12 12:38 PM)
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#26634 - 08/07/12 01:53 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
All members of my group were stopped and checked on whitney main trail near trailside meadow on July 5 this year by a ranger.

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#26642 - 08/07/12 03:17 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: Akichow]
Stalin Offline


Registered: 04/02/12
Posts: 35
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
I got checked by a ranger right before entering outpost camp on July 5th around 4pm. He was so nice and gave all sorts of advice, as we were behind schedule in getting to camp at Trail Camp. However, my fellow hikers Trailed behind me were not checked, though they had copies of my permit.

Better to have each one in your group to carry permit copies, just to be safe.

Stalin

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#26650 - 08/07/12 06:14 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: Stalin]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Does everyone in the group need to start the hike at the same time?

Those that are planning on summiting want to start at 3am. The others don't want to start until 5 or 6.
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#26659 - 08/07/12 09:12 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
You might talk directly with the interagency permit office about this, but my recollection is that you are supposed to leave the TH at the same time, though that recollection could be faulty. I have called before and gotten a live person who has been helpful.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/contactus/inyo/about-forest/contactus

Eastern Sierra InterAgency Visitor Center
Visitor Services/Wilderness Permits
760-876-6222
760-876-6228 TDD
Junction Highway US 395 & SR136 (1 mile south Lone Pine)
Lone Pine , CA 93545
Hours: Daily 8:00am to 5:00pm

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#26675 - 08/08/12 06:57 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: Akichow]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7527
Loc: Fresno, CA
The Wilderness Permit office (in Bishop) is the better number to call for permit questions like that:
760-873-2483

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#26679 - 08/08/12 08:04 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Oh Cursed, USA
Originally Posted By: 63ChevyII.com
Does everyone in the group need to start the hike at the same time?


Yes. That way you know everyone showed up. That's called accountability. You have a name and a warm body in front of you.

If you are the group leader, you are responsible for everyone in your group. If you split your start times, you will have no idea when the others started. Although they tell you 5 or 6 am you don't know that because you had a 2 hour head start. You won't know if they even showed up! So you return from your hike and you are missing one or two hikers. Hopefully, they put a note on your car. That is if they could find it since there are a lot of cars at the trailhead and overflow parking.

Scenario 1: Your group and other other group pass each other on Hypoxic Highway. Your group is coming down and the others are going up. You finish your hike, your group is blowing the froth off a couple while chomping on a burger and fries and you decide to head to the hostel. You still have that other group out there. What is their status? Where are they? How are they.

Scenario 2: A ranger asks you for your permit and asks where are the other members of your party you better have a good answer. Rangers are not babysitters, but they are very concerned about everyone's safety. They are there to make sure everyone on that trail is in compliance and to assist if needed.

In another post, a hiker was missing and no one, even family, had no idea. You don't want this to happen with your group.

From the Sierra Wave:

"Das set out to summit Mt. Whitney with a group of hikers on Sunday August 5th. After reaching Lone Pine Lake, Das became tired and stayed behind with one member of the hiking group to rest and nap. When Das woke up he was given instructions to go back down the trail and wait; at this point his other companion began to ascend the trail with the assumption that Das would head back to camp. At approximately 2:00pm Das was spotted at Trail Camp by the rest of the hiking group after they had summited Whitney and were descending the trail. Das refused to go back down the trail with the rest of his group and insisted upon summiting Whitney alone."

You don't want this.

For our hike on 07-25-12, I wanted to start at midnight. However, the group (wifey-pooh) didn't want to start until 2 am. Majority rules 6-1. We started at 1:40am with all present. We reached the summit, and I was sweep on the descent. It's not easy being sweep believe me. You have your pace, and the last person has theirs.

Safety first, last, and always.
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#26696 - 08/08/12 02:42 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: + @ti2d]
HyltonHiker Offline


Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Lake Isabella, CA,USA
Its good to see that there are rangers out there checking permits, that means there doing there job. I like having them out there. If I was in any kind of trouble out there in the backcountry I know they will be there. There not just out there checking permits there out there for our safety also and they need to be thanked for being out here. Example: I've been backpacking for around 10 years mainly in the Golden Trout and John Muir Wilderness and have not seen a ranger until a few weeks ago around Coyote Lks area just outside the Sequoia Park, he was an NPS ranger out of the Kern River Cyn RS and he just asked me where I was headed and I told him I was going to bag Coyote Pk and just told me to be careful-didnt even ask me for my permit even though I told him where I was camping he just wanted to chat and asked if I do this alot etc...just a heck of a nice guy, I think we were talking for a half hour, then asked me if I need anything just stop by his cabin. So there you go thats my backcountry ranger story.

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#26721 - 08/08/12 08:47 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: + @ti2d]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
+ @ti2d - I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way. After some phone calls and emails today, I think everyone is on the same page now. I'm not the group leader (I've never even met half of the people in our group), but do feel obligated to make sure everyone knows exactly what they're getting themselves into. I've jokingly been called the 'mom' or 'mother hen' (I'm a guy) of the group, but someone needs to be organized/responsible.


Edited by 63ChevyII.com (08/08/12 08:52 PM)
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#26736 - 08/09/12 07:50 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Oh Cursed, USA
Originally Posted By: 63ChevyII.com
...I'm not the group leader (I've never even met half of the people in our group), but do feel obligated to make sure everyone knows exactly what they're getting themselves into...but someone needs to be organized/responsible.


Take charge...do what must be done.

To lead people walk behind them....Lao Tzu
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#26812 - 08/11/12 01:34 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Joel M. Baldwin Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Sacramento Ca USA
Are they no longer issuing the brightly colored tags that you just wire to your pack?

I always figured these made it pretty easy for the rangers to check for.

Although the last time I was on the back side it was so windy that I only had the wire tie left when I got back to Trail Camp.

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#26815 - 08/11/12 05:03 AM Re: Permits Check [Re: Joel M. Baldwin]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Last year we didn't get tags.
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#26847 - 08/11/12 07:58 PM Re: Permits Check [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
They didn't do it either in 2011 or 2012. I am holding on to my 2010 tag as a keepsake.... First Whitney summit...kind of sorry they discontinued the tags.

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