Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Phase 2

After reading posts of "hits" and news, it is time to start the second phase of the Mt. Whitney Permit process...

Training.

Hopefully by now you have saved up enough money to purchase THE most important gear for your adventure...footwear.

Get out there to the stores like REI, Cabelas, or Adventure 16 and start getting fitted if you haven't already done so.

There are a lot of great boots out there and I know many of you have your preferences. I have mine and I will leave it at that. You can order online like Zappos, but that just ups the frustration level in case you don't like the boots due to size and fit and have to return them for another pair.

Here is some expert advice from REI. Remember, this is advice. We learn from our experiences.

Then read Versatile Fred's thread Orientation Notes for Whitney First Timers. VF put a lot of work into this for everyone. His thread was the number one reason for my first summit on my first try. Even I resort to it just to refreshen my memory. If you ever needed a reference guide, VF's thread is your "first step."

Congratulations on obtaining your permit. I bet many of you are stoked! Nothing like "Christmas" in March and April. It is probably the one charge on your debit/charge card you didn't mind seeing!

May your journey of 22 miles and 6,300 feet of elevation gain begin NOW!

Get up, gear up, get out, get going, and git'r done!

Have fun!

I am all set gear wise and training hard.One more month of my present workout and I'll be ready for Whitney.Two months and I'll be back in my prime shape.
How is everyone else doing? I am sure most of you stay in shape year round. I did until last year which I took a year off of my training.No good excuses but it sure feels good to be pushing my body and working out regularly again. Hurts sooo good.

Pain is weakness leaving the body...Doctors recommend to do more of what made your muscles sore to begin with...

Nobody ever drowned in sweat...so swim in it!

What don't kill you, makes you more strong...rise, fall down, rise again.

The only easy day was yesterday...train like there is no tomorrow.

Have fun.

It will be interesting to see how my continued workout plan jives with hiking. As previously mentioned, I have a full calisthenics program 3X a week + running 2 mi every other day (except last night and tonight due to downpours)Recently, I have added lunges in with the calisthenic program for leg strength, but I am still lacking the long mile endurance....maybe later.

B

A good book I have purchased was "Conditioning for Outdoor Fitness" by David Musnick, MD, and Mark Pierce, ATC. Excellent training regimens.

Hope this helps all of you.

Have fun.

The path to the summit of Mount Whitney winds for mile after mile on the treadmill, passes along local trails with family and friends, loops San Janicito several times, and climbs steeply out of Yosemite Valley before you ever set foot at the Portal.

At least that's how it works for me..................DUG

'Tude, I've always believed the best training for hiking a mountain is hiking a mountain, so I try to do that as often as possible. Unfortunately, the Blue Ridge north of Atlanta where I like to hike has been pretty much snowed out the past two months (yes it snows in the mountains here - normally not that much, but this has been one helluva winter). Most of my hiking this winter season has been at Kennesaw Mountain, about ten minutes from my home (yep, the one in that other thread - damn, I forgot to pack my Glock this past weekend!). The trails are configured brilliantly by the NPS, so that with two mountains of only 800 and 600 feet apparent elevation respectively, I can get about 3000 feet of elevation gain (and loss) in an 8-mile hike. Excellent for the quads, hips and lungs, but doesn't do squat for altitude conditioning. For a trip to the Sierra or Rockies, I always allow myself 3 days of acclimatization time before I begin to feel like I'm hiking normally at 10K and higher. For Whitney, that's meant lots'a Cottonwood/Horseshoe time when I get there.

After reading your workout routine a few months ago, I started doing more crunch sit ups - maybe 700 a week now, but with a goal of 1000 by the end of the month. A nagging tendinitis issue in my shoulder prevents me from doing the push-ups and pull-ups I'd like, so a trip to the doctor for a cortisone-steroid injection is pending. Some mountain biking, lunges and squats round things out for variety. Primarily hiking up/down mountains, though.

"I get knocked down... but I get up again... you ain't never gonna keep me down..."

I don't train.

I live.

I had 13 weeks medication enforced of nada.

I'm about 5 weeks into working towards normal. The first push week, I walk/ran 2.8 miles in 33+ mins. with a heart rate in the high 150s. This week it's down to <26 with a 151...all run. I've out 3X in the snow hiking, climbing and snowshoeing. I ain't close to being where I want to be.

Once I get my running heart rate into the mid 140s there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

It hurts...especially after have 3 pounds of this or that on my feet. So good, is open to debate.

Bee you have a great workout. I don't know if they are availbale to you but what gets my cardio and enduarnce along with the ability to not only hike up but down, is to run stadium stairs. I run 45-60 minutes up and down our local college stadium stairs. It is the greatest workout ever!!! First of all it is outside so you aren't cooped up in a gym. You have to start off slow walking up and down at first cuz I dont care what kind of shape you are in your legs and calves are going to scream when you first start.Your lungs will scream for air at first. Within a couple of weeks you will be saying damn this feels good.

Rod, I definitely plan on adding stairs into my workout -- I can lunge my way across teh football field and then do the stairs.

I know that the best way to get into shape for hiking is to,,,hike! However, my fitness goal goes beyone hiking -- I want all-around balanced fitness. I see too many hikers ont trail that look sort of like Godzilla: they have monstrous thighs of envy, but their upper bodies look like emaciated old men -- that cannot be good for the overall well-being of the body. Ice climbers, and climbers alike -- such as Laura -- have the benefit of a full body workout during play, but I have to fill in that upper body with all the fake stuff

b

Moose, Moose, Moose.....I'm so jealous.
Bishop, California, my favorite town in America. I started going there when I was 6 or 7. I made friends at the motels my mom, sister and I would stay in. Starlight Motel had the most memories. Yes...I got shot there when I was about 11, by accident. I have walked those canals forever. Brown Trout heaven. Not too many people fish the canal as they want to go to the lakes, but the biggest Brown I've caught was in the canal.....about 17 or 18 inches and skinny as hell. Hmmmm, memories. Duck hunting at Buckley ponds, Pheasant hunting on Airport Road, Chucker hunting near Pleasant Valley. Though I lived in L.A., I considered Bishop my home. We went there about 6 or more times a year. Fishing hunting, sightseeing. I've fished nearly everywhere up there. After I was diagnosed with cancer over 4 years ago, I went to Bishop. I laid down near the canal and looked at the White Mountains. I couldn't imagine not seeing them if I passed. When my kids were old enough (2 years old!) I took them to Bishop. I still remember carrying my kids to the edge of North lake at about 6 in the morning to fish. I fished, they slept in a sleeping bag. I've been there opeing day and closing weekend. I've seen many, many restaurants open and close. My favorite was Jacks. I still like it, but not my favorite. I've gone to and taken my kids to the parks, to Mule Days and oh yea, did I mention, the canal? I remember Brocks, when it was still owned by Jim Brock! I was a kid then, and now I'm not. The stores are still a lot like they were, with the exception of the stores at the North East end of town. Town hasn't grown much. I think it was about 3000 when I was a boy. I think it's about 3500 now...??? The edge of town in most places is still the same edge it was 40 years ago. I guess probably my most memorable Bishop memory was after 30 years of my mom taking me to Bishop to fish, I took her for her last time fishing. She had an oxygen tank on her wheel chair, but still managed to get a smile down next to the Owens. I also took her to Rock Creek on the way to Toms. She didn't catch a fish, a bit unusual for her. But she sure did enjoy herself. What I do remember is when we left Bishop on the way back to L.A. She looked at me and said, "I want to come back again soon." She died two months later and never ever got to go back. I did bring some of her personal items and toss them into the Owens a couple of weeks later....yes, I brought my 2 year old son Cy and my 4 year old daugher, Sascha to Bishop, so I could share Bishop with a new generation. Bishop, my home, where I have never lived.
Thanks Moose, I think about you up there from time to time. From your friend you've never met.....

Thanks, QS. That's exactly my point.

Even with the "training" (OK, yes, I'm adding situps and pushups and kettlebells and blahblahblah to the ends of my outings), even my workouts are a chance to explore. Granted, living in a big city it might be harder to find a little piece of outdoor heaven to go for a run or walk, but what's wrong with getting out into the backyard and looking at the sky while you do your situps?

The trick is finding something you actually enjoy doing. That way, it doesn't feel like work at all. I find myself, on some of the downhill portions of my power walks/runs, actually getting a little giddy with controlling the momentum, bounding down some of the hills. I know I won't be able to do that forever, so I'll take advantage of it now, while I can!

From the other night...


Rest of the pics are here.

I won't spend any time around Whitney (too crowded for me - plenty of other peaks and passes in the Eastern Sierra). Been hitting the gym four times per week, for upper and lower body strength, plus hiking on the off days - Druid boulders trail is a good stroll, eh Laura?

Definitely one of my faves, Bob. I'll be headed out that direction next week. But I'm also having a blast touring the local roads. Great workout and I make the descent harder by holding a squat position or relying only on poling to push myself back up the little rollers on the descent (instead of stopping and putting skins back on).

But I wouldn't mind jogging through the orchards of the Central Valley like Steve does every once in a while...

> I wouldn't mind jogging through the orchards of the Central Valley like Steve does every once in a while...

Yeah, I'm lucky that I work across the street from a veritable oasis of agricultural fields. It's completely surrounded by miles of suburban city now, but CSU Fresno's campus was a rural area when it was started in the '60s. So I get to jog around pistachios, almonds, alfalfa, corn, wheat and whatever else they are growing at the time. I've seen egrets, herons, Canadian geese, and even a den of foxes... all on the same section.

The fun part is running at high noon when it's a hundred degrees. Some years ago, my daughter was talking on the phone to a classmate who was driving on the avenue along campus, and the friend was saying, "Oh my gosh, there is this crazy guy out running in this heat! ....Oh wait... It's your dad!"

I used to run in Lemoore, but when they start spraying the cotton you have to move inside. The kids were always sick up there. It's where I fell in love with the Sierras, but all that crop dusting sux............................DUG

Yep, that stuff they spray on cotton is defoliant! Meant to kill everything.

How old were the kids then? There is a definite reduction in colds and such once they get to K or 1st grade. I think part of it is they stop putting everything into their mouths.

...Back to the topic: I've been troubled by hamstring pulls lately. Recently added a couple of strengthening exercises using one of those big exercise balls:

Prone Reach on Ball (Stomach/quads on ball, knees bent, feet against wall, tuck ball into thighs. Chin down. Glutes tight. Should feel in hamstrings. Reach out with one hand, the other near ear. Return hand to ear and reach out with other hand.)

and Hamstring Bridge

Does anyone have any favorite exercises for hamstring strength?

Daughter was 1st - 3rd grade. Son was newborn - 9 months. Once we got to Hawaii, the coughs and colds stopped..............................................DUG

I used to pull hammies while playing softball. Pulled so bad the backs of my legs were black and blue. Softball no more, except for coaching it. No spring chicken..."sprung" maybe...but "spring" no more.

Two exercises require weights:

1. Leg curls. Instead of using two legs, do one leg at a time. In your case, maybe a light weight or no weight at all. DO NOT JERK THE WEIGHT OR DO RAPID REPETITIONS. Lying prone on the bench, count "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand" on the way up and "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, three-one-thousand, four-one-thousand" on the way down. Repeat with other leg. Start off with as many reps you feel comfortable with. Probably best to do 5 reps for each leg if using no weight. Once you can do 12 reps, then add 5 pounds and do eight reps. Once you can work up to 12 reps with 5 pounds, increase the weight to 10 pounds.

If you are going to do the leg curls, do the leg extensions as well. I workout with 40 pounds for the leg extension and then 20 for the leg curls. Go two counts as you lift the weight to extend, then 4 counts as you lower the weight.

2. Good morning exercise. Feet shoulder width apart. Place a barbell "in the groove" of your shoulder and trapezius (no weights). Bend down slowly. Keep legs locked. Hold for two seconds. Return to starting position. For more resistance, add a little more weight. CAVEAT: Do this slowly. Jerking or rapid reps can do more harm than good.

Hope this helps.

Have fun.

Variation on the squats I mentioned. This is a great exercise for almost every part of your legs but, as "Tude says, can cause problems if not carefully done. For years I've preferred to do these holding 40-50 pounds in sand weights near my waist or between my thighs, as oppossed to being topheavy with arms at shoulder-height. For me it's always been too easy to lose balance when my arms and weights were up high, so I keep them close to my center of gravity. Keeps me from teetering and tottering too much and putting extra strain on my knees, which I don't need at my age.

I think this is my new favorite thread.So many things I want to respond to with my ADD.
First to those that can hike to get in shape for hiking, Kudos.I am really truly jealous.
Some of us live in urban areas and although there might be some hills it is nothing compared to hiking with significant elevation change and altitude that the Sierras and Baldy etc. offer.And that type of low altitude hiking is mostly unsatisfactory to me.
So since some of us have to work most of the week and in my case work Saturdays the only opportunity to get into or keep in shape is to find a workout in a gym or stadium stairs to get fit and/or hiking shape in the mornings before work.I have one weekend day off so I choose to spend it with my family so planning a weekend hike is usually not an option.

Bee,
You will love the stadium stairs.One frequent complaint of hikers is the strain on feet,knees,hips and legs while going downhill on a hike. The stairs will get your muscles that you need for going uphill but IMO more importantly it strengthens the muscles required for deaccleration and braking while going down hill.While many exercises emphasize the quads ie. stair steppers,treadmills don't give you the downhill work one needs for hiking. Please start slowly like walking up and down the stairs to start. You can slowly add speed like running on them as you get stronger.Stairs also offer the same cardio benefits of running witout the pounding on feet,ankles,kness,hips and back.The bent knee on stepping up prevents the pounding of running. Going down stairs you can control the pounding of joints by the speed of descent and catching your self on your toes so the foot,knee,hip and back have no jarring impact that running does. Again start slow and slowly increase you speed as you get stronger keeping good form landing on an arched foot to cushion impact.

Steve,
I have treated literally thousands of hamstring pulls and tears. My research and clinical experience reveal a muscular imbalance between the quads and the hamstrings.The quads are much stronger in general than the hamstrings. Often the strength of quads to hamstrings is 2-1. When running the quads push and the hamstrings grab and pull.With greater strength in the quads pushing harder and faster than the hamstring can pull there is a greater tendancy to injure or tear the hammy. Research points out hamstring injuries are due to their weakness and not lack of flexibilty which most people think is the cause of a hamstring injury.BTW I love that exercise that you posted. It is one of my favorite ball exercises.Great hammy strengthening exercise.

Another souce of leg injuries especially hammies is poor spinal mechanics specifically poor motion of the illiums and also the SI jt.(sacro-illiac).The illium is essential in almost all movement especially the running motion. The illiums is where the leg bone articulates with the "hip socket" and it is the bone you feels aound the waist where your belt line is.Keeping the illiums moving can be done with stretching but a good manipulation really can free up that area.Squats cause more weight room injuries than any single exercise I have ever seen. Usually poor technigue and too much weight. Squats can be death to knees and backs and once again the main benefit is to strengthen the quads which are already too strong for most hamstrings.
Leg curls with weights (heel to butt),bridges on the ball as you showed and any machine that can isolate and strengthen the hamstring is highly recommended.

All stretches should be dynamic. I really hate to see people doing straight leg hamstring streches of any kind.Dynamic motion ie.jogging, weights, walking,stairs or any movement is MUCH MUCH better than any static stretching.High level colleges and pro sports team almost NEVER do any form of static stretching because they cause injuries and do not prevent injuries.
If any one has any questions please feel free to ask.I spent 20 of my 25 years in practice as a team doctor at the high school and college level.I also own a sports training faciltity where we have trained many elite athletes.

ROTFLMHO!!!!

OK Rod, ya got me worried now.

First, the whole hammy/quad (im)balance thing makes a ton of sense to me. I was a sprinter in high school and college (100 up to the 400), so I've got pretty well-developed hammies from those 8 years of strength-building weightroom work. My high school coach was a bear about leg curls instead of presses, so I had to do way more of those than I ever wanted. He also loved to have us run stadium steps, which I thought was pure torture, but in retrospect Thank God for Coach Yancy! Of course my quads were still way stronger than the hammies, but I never suffered any significant injuries during those years other than one or two hammy tweaks - unlike a lot of sprinters I was around, who often had much more serious hamstring and Achilles tendon issues.

Fast-forward about 30 years to a 52 YO guy who has not done any running of significance since hanging up the track shoes after college, but has concentrated for the past 20 years on hiking - usually the mountainous type. Quads are still very strong, hammies less so. Everything works the way it's supposed to, but my knees seem to have weakened in the past few years, exhibiting all kinds of lovely cracking and popping when I squat down and rise again. I rarely ever experience any knee discomfort on the trail, only in deep squats. That's why I started my squat routine - to flex and strengthen these knees that really haven't been flexed regularly since I gave up Tae-Kwon-Do 20 years ago. Am I doing the wrong thing with deep squats, holding about 40 pounds in soft weight between my legs?

Damn CaT, I had to Google that one.

Can we call this thread: ASK DR ROD???

Are there any problems to watch out for when doing lunges? Are they beneficial?

I will bee going on a "stadium safari" this weekend, so that I can start working on those stairs. BTW, you are only the second person who has mentioned that downhill conditioning is important, too.

B

Bee
I like lunges in general.The most important thing in lunges and most leg exercises in general is keeping hips neutral and knees bent to 90 degrees max.I prefer a 45 degree knee flex and a slow paused lunge.The more you flex the knee the greater the strain on the joint(ligaments and meniscus) and the tendons. Remember the goal of exercise to to make your body stronger and healthier.Exercise should never cause pain(not to include the lactic acid pain of exercising) or injury.Repetitive motion always has the risk of tendonitis.Therefore I believe in not pounding or over stressing a joint. 45 degrees is preferable to 90 degrees on the knees.

Bulldog34
That especially applies to squats. 45 degrees max. Especially over the age of 40.Did I say I am not a big fan of squats period? There are much better execises for legs.