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HST - High Sierra Trail
#27419 09/01/12 03:35 PM
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Here's a PRE-trip report.

On Monday morning I plan on starting out the HST ( High Sierra Trail ) from Crescent Meadow in Sequoia National Park. I have gear and rations for a 5-night trip, and am sure hoping everything holds together (the body is giving me some reservations, so we'll see.)

My cannister holds ~12 lbs of food. I'm also carrying 1.25 lbs of fishing gear, with hopes of catching a few. Even have a tiny frying pan. wink   If all works ok, I might even bag a peak in the middle. But if the joints get too sore, you will see me make a U turn and head out.

Y'all are welcome to follow along:   SPOT map   Note: If you see any "Help" signals, it is ONLY because I use them to record locations more frequently than Track signals. Do NOT sound any alarms.

Spotwalla page

Gmap4 map centered at the Crescent Meadow start.

Google Maps view of my intended/ideal route.

I still need to get a walk-in permit in Sequoia on Sunday. I am counting on a low demand for a Monday start after most people's vacations are over.

I plan on leaving the HST at Kaweah Gap (Great Western Divide), and heading cross-country over Pants Pass. Then on to Wallace Lake, with a Mt Whitney summit at the end. We'll have to see how well the plan goes....

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27434 09/02/12 08:59 AM
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Steve:

So exciting to hear this, especially the Pants Pass XC. I will definitely be spotting you. Especially envious of the fishing. The outlet of upper Hamilton is a real hotspot. There is also a deep pool below the first fall, about 200' below the outlet, that holds big fish. Need a flashy stimulator there.

Outlets in Nine Lakes Basin are supposed to be hot, too.

Really looking forward to this TR



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27436 09/02/12 09:11 AM
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Good luck Steve. The HST is on my to-do list. Sounds like a heavy pack. Are you going by yourself or with someone else?

Weather looks like it's going to be on your side.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27437 09/02/12 11:12 AM
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I appreciate the good wishes. thanks   This is a solo trip, but with Spot along, I'll not really be alone with friends and family watching.

I'm not a very patient fisherman, and don't have much experience. I have a neighbor (Giant Brookie on the H.S.Topix forum) who has steered me to some different (flashy) lures to try. They're bigger than any I've ever tried, but he targets the biggest fish. I hope to camp by the upper lake (10725) in Nine Lakes Basin -- if I can't catch any there, I'm hopeless.

2600, the pack weighs about 26#. Some ultralight gear: stove and fuel: 8 oz. Pack: 8 oz. (cuben Zpack). Parka-tent for the rain. 1 Gatorade bottle for water, and several freezer quart ziplocks for when I need to carry more than the 1 liter. No filter. 2# bag, Neo-aire shorty mattress. I use a silk liner inside the bag.

Weather forecast calls for dry, partly cloudy. like! smile

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27440 09/02/12 11:53 AM
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26 pounds, huh? Positively gargantuan for your UL sensibilities! I'm guessing the glorified grocery sack is staying home?

Have a blast and be safe!

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27441 09/02/12 11:56 AM
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Holy sh*t. All that food for a 5 day trip and you're under 30 lbs. We need to talk someday because I need packing advice from you.

I was just on a 5 day trip in the Palisades and my pack was at least 40 lbs. Glad you're bringing some rain gear. We had a sunny forecast when I checked last week and it rained 2 of the 5 days. Made the trip...interesting. :grin:

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Anonymous1 #27442 09/02/12 12:08 PM
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> All that food for a 5 day trip and you're under 30 lbs. We need to talk someday.

I'm trying to get as close as possible to Bob R's "Ultralight Pack" list, or his not-so ultralight.

Here's the post with links:
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/605#Post605]

If rain were more of a possibility, I'd probably throw in more dependable rain gear.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27446 09/03/12 09:42 AM
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Steve C has left the trailhead & started leaving breadcrumbs.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27448 09/03/12 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
Steve C has left the trailhead & started leaving breadcrumbs.


Seems to be leaving quite a few at a leisurely lunch at Mehrten Creek.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27449 09/03/12 02:21 PM
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better leave some of those real breadcrumbs behind !

I cannot imagine 12 lbs of food for only 5 nights. What are you Steve, still growing?

I bet he brings food back.


Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27450 09/03/12 07:25 PM
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He's camped at a fishing hotspot, too, with plenty of daylight left.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27451 09/03/12 11:10 PM
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Wow, that was an impressive first day. By my calculations, 14.3 miles, 6511 gain, 4961 loss, net 1550 gain.

That's a serious hike.

12# does seem like a lot of food. I'm thinking that included the bear cannister?


Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Ken #27453 09/04/12 07:08 AM
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He camped at a fishing hotspot, but if you read the fine print on the permit (I did when passing through a few weeks ago), it's a catch and release lake!! BOO!! grin


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
MooseTracks #27454 09/04/12 07:41 AM
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Oops.

I missed that last year.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Ken #27455 09/04/12 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ken
Wow, that was an impressive first day. By my calculations, 14.3 miles, 6511 gain, 4961 loss, net 1550 gain.

That's a serious hike.


Funny thing about that section of trail. The written guides (including Secor) all put that distance around 16+ mi, but the signposts along the way do add up to about 14 and change.

On the other hand, it does not seem like there is nearly the amount of up and down you calculate: I'd be interested to know how you calculate that. There are really only a couple of significant downhills in that direction, approaching Buck, Lone Pine and Hamilton Creeks, and I would be surprised if they add up to 1000. But it is a serious hike, in more ways than one


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27465 09/04/12 11:57 PM
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I just used TOPO, and traced the trail, it created the profile with the up and down.

That surprised me, too.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Ken #27468 09/05/12 05:49 AM
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Interesting. It seems up and down is one of those stats you have to be careful of out of context, like time of possession or runners left on base. By that I mean, taken by itself, 6000+/4500- describes both the mostly long shallow ascent that Steve did on Monday and something more than going from the Portal to Crabtree over Trail Crest


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27470 09/05/12 07:45 AM
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Looks like he's not trying Pants Pass, but is headed south on the HST.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27471 09/05/12 07:53 AM
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Hard to tell. He said he was staying 2 days in Nine Lakes, and his present position is on one of the side trips he indicates on his route map. He was camped right below PP, and its hard to believe he would not have looked closer before backing off. He really wanted to do that route. He could be off to bag Eagle Scout or maybe a Kaweah or two, any of which have class 2 and 3 approaches from upper Big Arroyo. See what happens between present position and Arroyo Junction.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27473 09/05/12 08:12 AM
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My money is on Black Kaweah.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27474 09/05/12 09:27 AM
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can you tell if he is moving any faster as he burns off those 12 lbs of food?

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27476 09/05/12 12:06 PM
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Looks as though he has started back down. Hope he has pictures of his route. It looks very difficult on the TOPO.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
John Sims #27477 09/05/12 01:09 PM
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Looks like weather. Intellicast interactive map shows a series of systems right on top of him for the past hour. This time of day, that usually means t-storms. Note he's retreating first off the ridge, down the fall line, then over to his ascent route. Covered the first 400 feet of descent in no more than 20 minutes, maybe a lot less.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27478 09/05/12 02:42 PM
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Black Kaweah was his plan on the several e mails we exchanged.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
CMC2 #27479 09/05/12 02:48 PM
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I have got to come clean: I am jealous. frown


Instead of being at my desk right now, I'd love to be where he's at....sounds amazing... grin

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
ChrisInLongBeach #27481 09/05/12 03:50 PM
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Welcome to amazing world of Sierra Video Games.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
MooseTracks #27482 09/05/12 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
Welcome to amazing world of Sierra Video Games.


HeeHee: Top Ten List

SimSierra
World of Campcraft
Grand Theft Marmot
Alpinelands
PermitWars
Legend of Laura
Portal
PackMan
Uncharted
SuperMario Ultralight


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27490 09/05/12 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
Welcome to amazing world of Sierra Video Games.


HeeHee: Top Ten List

SimSierra
World of Campcraft
Grand Theft Marmot
Alpinelands
PermitWars
Legend of Laura
Portal
PackMan
Uncharted
SuperMario Ultralight
like!


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27508 09/06/12 08:57 AM
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Over Pants Pass?


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27517 09/06/12 11:26 AM
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Once Steve got past Jester Lake(49), he really got a move on!



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27518 09/06/12 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
Welcome to amazing world of Sierra Video Games.


HeeHee: Top Ten List

SimSierra
World of Campcraft
Grand Theft Marmot
Alpinelands
PermitWars
Legend of Laura
Portal
PackMan
Uncharted
SuperMario Ultralight


Now THAT made me laugh out loud!!

But this is why I almost never take my SPOT with me anymore...


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27525 09/06/12 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
Once Steve got past Jester Lake(49), he really got a move on!


All afternoon to fish the upper Kern. Heaven


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27554 09/07/12 01:02 PM
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Looks like Steve did a southern detour from his itinerary, now heading north past Artic Lake. Carrying that full wag bag might slow him down but he's making good time smile

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27556 09/07/12 02:34 PM
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Steve is presently at Arctic Lake. Does anybody know what the light green/darker green demarcation line is on the west slope of Whitney? It passes through Mt. Russell & heads North/South.
I don't think it is the Zone, as I can't see it at Lone Pine Lake. You will need to select "Terrain".



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27560 09/07/12 04:47 PM
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?!. Huh? WTF? Oh, just looked at the webcam. Probably weather.



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27561 09/07/12 04:53 PM
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Don't be silly. What's a little lightning at 13K? wink


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27564 09/07/12 05:33 PM
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At 5:30 PM. This is interesting. According to his SPOT, he's free solo on the East Buttress. I know, he's gotta be in the MR chute, right? But check out the satellite view. Another good reason to at least leave the SPOT off for a while, huh?


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27565 09/07/12 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
Does anybody know what the light green/darker green demarcation line is on the west slope of Whitney? It passes through Mt. Russell & heads North/South.
I don't think it is the Zone, as I can't see it at Lone Pine Lake. You will need to select "Terrain".


Definitely not SEKI or Inyo Co boundaries.
Could it just be some overlapping aerial/satellite survey equivalent of cut and paste?

Clock is ticking- is Steve planning to sleep on the summit?

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27566 09/07/12 06:49 PM
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Steve is apparently on the summit, 6 minutes ago. The hard way, I reckon.



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27567 09/07/12 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
Does anybody know what the light green/darker green demarcation line is on the west slope of Whitney? It passes through Mt. Russell & heads North/South.
I don't think it is the Zone, as I can't see it at Lone Pine Lake. You will need to select "Terrain".

Wagga, I think that's just a 3D shading effect you're referring to. The steep eastern escarpment shows up as darker because the light source used to render the topography is coming from the west. That would explain why it only shows up in terrain view. In some 3D mapping programs you can change the direction of the lighting.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27569 09/08/12 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
Originally Posted By: wagga
Does anybody know what the light green/darker green demarcation line is on the west slope of Whitney? It passes through Mt. Russell & heads North/South.
I don't think it is the Zone, as I can't see it at Lone Pine Lake. You will need to select "Terrain".

Wagga, I think that's just a 3D shading effect you're referring to. The steep eastern escarpment shows up as darker because the light source used to render the topography is coming from the west. That would explain why it only shows up in terrain view. In some 3D mapping programs you can change the direction of the lighting.


Nope, definitely not the contour shading: its a subtler shading that follows zig-zagging straight line segments both east and west of the crest, very roughly parallel, creating a band roughly between 1 and 3 miles wide. I followed it south to the confluence of Golden Trout Creek and Kern R, and north to Shepherd Pass, where it widens or splits and seems to follow the Kings Kern Divide West and the Crest North. Seems to have something to do with these divides, but does not follow contours


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27570 09/08/12 08:17 AM
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agree with salty

military reasons? ("stay above the hard deck")

last bit of the trail to the summit look much more crooked than I remember and I was just there again last month

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27572 09/08/12 03:27 PM
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Steve: Welcome back! Fascinating watching your progress, and so glad you were able to complete this impressive hike. Really looking forward to your TR, your experiences and decision making in backing off Black Kaweah, the PP crossing, rerouting to Arctic Lake drainage, and my favorite, your route and perceptions climbing into the lowering clouds around
sunset


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27573 09/08/12 03:31 PM
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Hi Steve,
"You da Man". Magnificent hike! I too want to hear all about it. Why down to Iceberg lake, and then up the chute?

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27576 09/08/12 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
Originally Posted By: wagga
Does anybody know what the light green/darker green demarcation line is on the west slope of Whitney? It passes through Mt. Russell & heads North/South.
I don't think it is the Zone, as I can't see it at Lone Pine Lake. You will need to select "Terrain".

Wagga, I think that's just a 3D shading effect you're referring to. The steep eastern escarpment shows up as darker because the light source used to render the topography is coming from the west. That would explain why it only shows up in terrain view. In some 3D mapping programs you can change the direction of the lighting.


Nope, definitely not the contour shading: its a subtler shading that follows zig-zagging straight line segments both east and west of the crest, very roughly parallel, creating a band roughly between 1 and 3 miles wide. I followed it south to the confluence of Golden Trout Creek and Kern R, and north to Shepherd Pass, where it widens or splits and seems to follow the Kings Kern Divide West and the Crest North. Seems to have something to do with these divides, but does not follow contours


What map are you looking at? I think I see what Wagga is talking about in the images posted now that you described it a little better. I really didn't think Wagga would confuse the contour shading but it read that way.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27577 09/08/12 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: SierraNevada


What map are you looking at? Maybe if you post an image we can figure it out.


Look at either Steve's SPOT locator or the Spotwalla page (links above) in Terrain view. Shows clearly in the images Wagga posted above.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27578 09/09/12 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada


What map are you looking at? Maybe if you post an image we can figure it out.


Look at either Steve's SPOT locator or the Spotwalla page (links above) in Terrain view. Shows clearly in the images Wagga posted above.

It looks to me that these shades of green are crude approximations of vegetation type. The color scheme changes as you zoom out but the general concept is similar - zig zaggy lines roughly delineating vegetation zones. If you zoom out to a different map scale (without contours) you'll see the Whitney area and other areas above treeline as white shaded regions. I'm guessing these vegetation layers just haven't been fully developed yet so they're somewhat off. If someone has a better explanation I'd like to read about it.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27579 09/09/12 12:28 AM
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Since he spent the night on the summit, there must not have been an obvious threat of thunderstorms, as some speculated.

I enjoyed tracking his circuitous route. Must have been a nice adventure.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
John Sims #27581 09/09/12 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: John Sims
Hi Steve,
"You da Man". Magnificent hike! I too want to hear all about it. Why down to Iceberg lake, and then up the chute?


Dropping down from Whitney-Russel col to Iceberg was easier for me than trying to traverse across to join the MR at a higher level . Let's see what Steve says. .........plus it is last chance for a fill up.

As for the other topic, I don' think everyone reaizes that the faint change in shading that Wagga is talking about is a STRAIGHT line,and when it does change it is angular, not like a contour line

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27587 09/09/12 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
As for the other topic, I don' think everyone reaizes that the faint change in shading that Wagga is talking about is a STRAIGHT line,and when it does change it is angular, not like a contour line

Harvey, the vegetation layers I'm talking about are straight lines that roughly follow contours. In the screen shots below I've captured the "Forest cover" and "Tundra cover" layers for the Whitney area. The "tundra layer" highlites the very tallest region but it does not follow contour lines. What you see is that the layers are drawn as vector data with straight lines. When I turn off the vector layers in the next image, these boundaries appear smoother, especially when blended with terrain shading in steep areas. Compare the green "forest cover" in the flat valley and the straight lines still look like straight lines.

These specific layers, and other datasets, are not used at all map resolutions. As you zoom in to higher resolution, the tundra data disappears and is replaced by different shading. At the zoomed-in level the vector layer (lines and polygons) is converted to raster data (pixels), which is the green shading Wagga is describing. The quality control of the data and the color schemes vary at different resolutions. The dark green area Wagga is referring to should have been white to be consistent with the lower resolution dataset, but the two datasets probably came from different sources. This seems to be an issue in other areas of Google maps as well. Remember, this is free stuff and the layer data is coming from multiple sources.

That's my guess on what's up with the dark green shading. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time, but it makes sense and seems reasonable to me.






Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27588 09/09/12 12:46 PM
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Wellllllll, maybe, but if you look at where the lines are, and think about what is actually on the ground in those areas, maybe not. In the shot Wagga posted above, there is one such clear line just west of the edge of the Whitney summit plateau, and opposite that, just east of the edge of Iceberg Lake. What would the significant vegetation changes at those points be?


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27590 09/09/12 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Wellllllll, maybe, but if you look at where the lines are, and think about what is actually on the ground in those areas, maybe not. In the shot Wagga posted above, there is one such clear line just west of the edge of the Whitney summit plateau, and opposite that, just east of the edge of Iceberg Lake. What would the significant vegetation changes at those points be?

The band you describe spanning across the Whitney crest might represent the plant species at the highest elevation. At a larger map scale in the image I embedded, this general area is called "tundra." At the smaller map scale that's got us wondering, the source data seems to be different with different boundaries and color schemes (shades of green instead of white and green). If I'm correct, these vegetation zones are probably coming from someone sketching them in click, click, click with a mouse over the entire Sierra with minimal accuracy.

Once again, I could be off, but it makes sense to me. I think we're all sure these zones are not any kind of jurisdictional boundary (NF, NPS, County, Whitney zone etc.)

Edit: I'll ask our top GIS expert at my office this week to see if we can positively identify the source layer for this green shading.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27591 09/09/12 05:00 PM
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I think there are some areas in the Zone where dogs and domestic goats are prohibited - to protect the native sheep.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27592 09/09/12 05:26 PM
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I give up. Way over my head.

Maybe Steve saw some of those lines when he was up there.


Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27593 09/09/12 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
I think there are some areas in the Zone where dogs and domestic goats are prohibited - to protect the native sheep.

Could be, Wagga, but a restricted area would probably be defined with something other than a slightly darker shade of green. I think they chose this color scheme for the small map scale to emphasize the lack of accuracy in the data. A dramatic color contrast would imply an accurate delineation, especially at small map scales. The boundaries seem a bit willy-nilly to me so I'm sticking with my etch-a-sketch theory for vegetation. I hope my colleague can find the source layer and then we'll know for sure. As I mentioned above, this mystery layer is raster data in GMAP, so he'll have to either find a really good legend that explains it, or the original vector data layer that was merged into the base map. Maybe he'll have another trick up his sleeve, he's amazing at this stuff.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27594 09/09/12 05:58 PM
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Just talked to Steve as he was pulling into Fresno. He took his daughter up on the roof of the Museum so that she could clean the glass on the webcam.

He's home safe, & will report later tonight.

I was just thinking that he did this epic trip, and the chattering class is going on about green lines...


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27595 09/09/12 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
I was just thinking that he did this epic trip, and the chattering class is going on about green lines...


well, we are waiting for Steve to take a shower.

Something to do beside curse at my new Nexus tablet- I'm slow.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27596 09/09/12 06:46 PM
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Nice trip, Steve, done in good style!


Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
wagga #27603 09/09/12 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: wagga
I was just thinking that he did this epic trip, and the chattering class is going on about green lines...

I agree, as a fellow chattering class participant, our map layer discussion did not belong in this thread, but that's where the initial question was raised and the digression began.

Can't wait to read Steve's TR. Hope he had as much fun as the armchair quarterbacks tracking him.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27605 09/10/12 01:51 AM
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Oh man! I haven't read any but the last three posts. (I'm a slow reader.) It will take a week or so to put together a decent trip report, but I will get to it. Please be patient.

I hope all who followed along had fun. I'll try to zip off a few observations here to start.

Biggest problem: After the trip, I am hobbling around with one good foot/leg, and one with a deep blister so bad that my entire foot is mildly swollen. It swelled and filled with liquid AFTER I finished Saturday.

Highlight: catching half a dozen voracious 6-7 inch trout in about 5 minutes from the lake east of Pants Pass. They'd hit the yellow/red dot lure before I could start reeling it in! I released all of them because I had miles to go down the trail.

Bad deal: The lake to the west of Pants Pass that some report said was full of huge trout was devoid of any fish! None seen, none rising, no bites. Dang Internet reports mad

Black Kaweah: Some hiker guidebook was too brief, and I didn't do proper research to find the correct approach. So I climbed a Big Dog mountain to a false summit. Took a picture of two guys on the real summit, about a half mile away and 500' above me. Compared to Whitney, it's a Big Dog peak, and Whitney is somewhere between puppy and a Golden Retriever. wink

Forgotten item 1: flat/pita bread. So got some breakfast bagels and English muffins at Wuksachi Lodge. Next time, I'm taking more bagels!

Forgotten item 2: Tent pegs for my 6-Moon-Designs parka tent. (re-seam sealed the parka at last minute, and forgot to grab stakes) Oops!! My 7-y-o wanted to telephone me to tell me, after I was out on the trail. I used big rocks to set it up one night (and it didn't rain). But all the other nights, I either slept out as planned, or inside some hut. wink ...Actually got significant rain only the second day -- I hunkered under the parka and ate lunch.

Fun item: My work associates were watching my progress, and noticed I had turned around at one point. They were very worried, called my wife asking if she'd heard any thing. She looked at the "terrain" version of the map and could see my ascent and descent of Black Kaweah.

Pants Pass: Off trail, steepest crazy ascent and descent (1200') with a 20+ lb pack. It is talus and scree on the west side (tough climbing!). On the east side, consolidated dirt with gravel covering in the gully--sure failure without a rope. But then beside (N of) the gully, I could down-climb the blocks and scree. Lake to lake (west to east) took 4 hours.

Lots of horse manure in the valley east of Pants Pass before the Colby Pass trail. Packers must be overnighting their stock there. I drank from that stream all day, untreated. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Didn't see a soul after the Black Kaweah false summit and reaching Wallace Creek and the JMT. That was a day and a half and lots of miles alone!

Made friends with a lot of good people on the trails. Alice from Alpaugh, Em and Steph from Petaluma and Oakland, Jeremy and Margarita from NM and Tx. 6 guys from Texas.

The 6 from Texas were also planning on climbing over Pants Pass. Took them about 15 minutes to change their minds once they spotted it from Kaweah Gap. They instead took the HST trail all the way through to Mt Whitney.

On Friday, I got almost to Guitar Lake, but wanted to try the north slope of Mt Whitney, so headed up the Arctic Lake drainage. A friend had thought there would definitely be fish in Arctic. Nope, not a sign; murky water with green moss. Tried a few casts, then a quick cleanup swim, and moved on. The north slope if Mt W looks too intimidating to climb. I then pulled out a picture Rick Kent had taken from Russell just before he climbed the slope. I THEN realized: he had climbed with snow on the slope -- so he could use crampons and get good traction. No way I could do it in a late afternoon solo climb on bare rock. I just couldn't see a sure path. So over Whitney-Russell pass I went, down to Iceberg lake. Filled a quart bottle and two quart freezer zip-locks with water, and headed up the MR to the summit. ...wish i could have heard the comments of the 10 or so people watching me from Iceberg. (I didn't have time to head over and talk with them, it was 4:30 pm when I started up.) Lost my light-blue Crock camp-shoe water-crossing shoe on the way up. Offering a reward--I want it back!

Friday night in the hut was great. I was disappointed several finishing the JMT didn't meet me up there. They just weren't sure with the cloudy weather. The hut was about 60 F inside, even without the door!

Ok, enough of the "brief" report. Once I get pictures uploaded and captioned, I'll do a real report.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27606 09/10/12 06:58 AM
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Steve: there was a trail crew up on Colby for at least a few weeks this summer, doing a lot of blasting and some re-routing. I missed them by a day when I came over. Ranger Laura Pilewski (Rob's wife) was up with them quite a bit. Doubt you'll have any problem with the water, at least I didn't.

Glad to hear you had fun!

-L


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27607 09/10/12 07:30 AM
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Nice adventure. You'll get a kick out of reading the speculations guessing your next move - next time we'll set up a betting pool. Hope your foot heals up quickly. Welcome back!

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27613 09/10/12 12:02 PM
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Really looking forward to this. Sounds like a really great hike, in so many ways.

BTW: I would not disparage your research on Black Kaweah one bit. Secor's west ridge route begins at a notch just to the east of that false summit. He labels it "to Big Arroyo", which I take to mean "any route to here is the right one", which would include yours.


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27624 09/10/12 03:30 PM
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I'll add my congratulations and envy.

Hey Sierra
- I'm going to 18,000 ft Orizaba with Richard P. in Nov. Didn't we have an oxygen canister thread some time back? What do you recommend I take as a trial/ experiment. I was there in 1997 and did okay, but..... the O2GO-XL still the one?

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27665 09/12/12 07:31 AM
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Harvey, you sure get around. November, eh? What's your acclimation regime for 18,000ft Orizaba?

The O2GO-XL fits in a front pocket for easy use. That company also makes a more sophisticated model with a mask and gauge, but a backup canister seems more weight efficient (I count ounces).

Should make for a very interesting trip report.


Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27694 09/12/12 05:48 PM
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thanks for advice on O2

aggressive schedule - I am along for the ride . See

orizaba

sorry to be hijacking Steves trip here , I better pipe down

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27695 09/12/12 06:22 PM
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We have very strict rules on threadjacking here.



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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27701 09/13/12 12:03 AM
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Should be an awesome trip. That's a lot of up and down.

It just occurred to me, you can't pack the O2 on a plane. You'd have to ship it by truck to Oso or something.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27740 09/13/12 09:56 PM
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Regarding that silly digression about the dark green shading on the GMAP around the Whitney crest, my GIS expert was not familiar and too busy to look into it. He agreed it seemed to be rather crudely drawn by mapping standards and probably quite arbitrarily delineated at small map scaled. If he ever finds the original vector or meta data, I'll bump back or start a new thread.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27751 09/14/12 08:35 AM
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Regarding the same darker green on the Google maps:

I asked the Gmap4 creator, and he wrote back:

I'm clueless.
First time I have seen it.


From the looks of the Google Maps and other situations in the Sierra, including the placement of the North Fork Whitney "trail", and the Main Trail, and the naming of the "Frog Pond", it appears there are some bozos in the map department who just have no clue what they are doing.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27759 09/14/12 11:41 AM
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STeve, I'm not so sure.

1. We expect technology to be perfect, and are surprised when it is not. I've seen people argue over where a trail was, based upon GPS, where the difference was a few feet. No understanding of accuracy.

2. There are certain things that crop up in technical fields unexpectedly. Sometimes referred to as the "ghost in the machine". Extremely hard to track down or explain.
Remember that these maps were generated from aerial photographs. One artifact that may have existed were shadows. For example, a shadow line may exist at 8-9am that might approximate this, and the software might not interpret it correctly, or even know what to do with it. Also, the software allows one to adjust the "shading", and it might interpret things funny.

3. mapmakers usually deliberately place "errors" on their maps, as a watermark to protect their copyright. These are things that will not effect use.

I believe we are talking about #2, here. We all know that there is nothing on the ground where that line is. Such shading usually refers on topos to vegetation, and there clearly is none.

I recall one map system that allowed you to run/stop the motion of the sun, with the shadows running across the terrain from dawn to dusk.

Also, the pictures used are spliced together by the software, and there may be artifacts of the pictures. For example, using the G4 maps, when I switch to "satellite view", and move a little out, there is an artifactual vertical line created between photos at the west base of Whitney.

I imagine this drives mapmakers crazy.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Ken #27766 09/14/12 07:11 PM
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SOOOOoooooooooo, how was that hike?


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Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
saltydog #27767 09/14/12 08:50 PM
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I can't help but point out the irony here: Steve's awesome hike is turning into a digression on this thread about Steve's awesome hike. It probably would not have gone that way if he was orchestrating things like he normally does - which we all take for granted to some extent. If this were someone else's trip report, Steve would've created a new thread for this green-shading map discussion, the trail crews, Mexican mountain climbing, etc. and brought it back in focus to the hiker's adventure, which was Steve's adventure. If you think about it, his brief absence on this one particular thread is a testimonial to his effectiveness as a forum moderator.

This is a perfect opportunity to reflect for a minute on how Steve overlaps outstanding technical skill sets with personal respectfulness and unusual common sense over a sustained period of dedication. This is extremely rare and should be recognized, and I'm not just sucking up here, I really mean it. It's what keeps so many interesting people coming back to the Zone.

And again, how was that hike, Steve? In the infamous words of Wagga, if ya ain't got pictures, then it never happened...

Minor edits not worth documenting...

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27768 09/14/12 09:59 PM
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So, uh, feel free to "edit" yourselves if the thread is not to to someone's standard/liking, because we just went through a whole flap about censoring, editing, etc. Don't wanna get too anal about these things.

Last edited by Bee; 09/14/12 10:00 PM. Reason: OOPS, edited myself!

The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Bee #27769 09/14/12 10:05 PM
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Sorry Bee, I have no idea what you are referring too. What flap? I edit a significant percentage of my posts. I guess I missed a flap of some sort. Please explain or send me a PM.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27770 09/14/12 10:36 PM
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Actually, the discussion about the green shading is ok -- I re-opened it by posting that I'd asked Joseph from Gmap4.

As for that trip report... I'm STILL trying to get the entire set of pictures uploaded, with less than great success. Seems I have crappy Internet service lately. Must be too many people downloading movies and such on my street. mad

I am curious, too, what the shading is supposed to represent. Being a computer geek myself, I am sure it is not due to some unknown glitch. You can follow the shading all over the Sierra, and it certainly doesn't make any logical sense. But it IS there, caused by someone's setting up some sort of shading routine to show up with corners and lines at specific locations. This sort of random garbage occurs all the time. I just spent over a day doing work someone else paid a good salary was unable to do. Incompetence rears its ugly head every so often.

This thread can go on and on... I will start a new one with a real trip report in due time.

Alright, need to go try to upload a few more....

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27773 09/15/12 01:03 AM
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Sorry Bee, I have no idea what you are referring too. What flap? I edit a significant percentage of my posts. I guess I missed a flap of some sort. Please explain or send me a PM.


I don't have time for lengthy PMs or explainations beyond the obvious reference towards the general resistance to editing/censoring/outside invovement with the natural progression of a thread. Understandable attitude. This has been stated clearly in other threads, unless, of course, you are being facetious in not knowing what I am referring to.

Anyhow, as I stated, feel free to start new threads if the topic matter is not adhering to a particular thread standard of singularity.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Bee #27775 09/15/12 06:19 AM
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The digression was simply for some of the regulars here to do something while we were waiting for Steve. Better than some forums where posters keep a thread alive and near the top by using ttt (to the top, although that might be appropriate pun)

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Harvey Lankford #27785 09/15/12 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
better leave some of those real breadcrumbs behind !

I cannot imagine 12 lbs of food for only 5 nights. What are you Steve, still growing?

I bet he brings food back.

Harvey, it was 5 nights, but 6 full hiking days.

I didn't bring much back. Ate all my granola / pwd milk / tang breakfasts. Ate all the 3.5 oz tuna sandwich mix in foil pouches and sardines in oil. By the way, sardines in oil, about the third day, really got the taste buds excited. half a bagel was barely enough to sop up all that oil. Out like that, I was after ALL the calories I could get. This trip, I learned that bagels go well on the trail!

Dinners: Mountain House meals, repackaged to 4 oz units, were just a bit much. 3 to 3.5 would have been better.

Snacks: 2 granola bars (Fibre One is my favorite) a day, 2 Mounds single (small) bars a day, and a large handful of trail mix: almonds, pecans, TJ's fancy raisins. (I actually threw out 2 protein bars I thought might be ok for variety. Ugh! They're disgusting!)

Less than a pound came back. And I was still ravenous for a few days afterwards. Had a steak dinner in Lone Pine, followed by a pint of ice cream that night.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Bee #27786 09/15/12 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bee
I don't have time for lengthy PMs or explanations beyond the obvious reference towards the general resistance to editing/censoring/outside involvement with the natural progression of a thread. Understandable attitude. This has been stated clearly in other threads, unless, of course, you are being facetious in not knowing what I am referring to.

Anyhow, as I stated, feel free to start new threads if the topic matter is not adhering to a particular thread standard of singularity.

I'm still not clear on what you're referring to, Bee. Sorry. I'm not being facetious, just not getting what you mean about resistance to editing/censoring/outside involvement. Oh, well.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Ken #27787 09/15/12 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ken
Wow, that was an impressive first day. By my calculations, 14.3 miles, 6511 gain, 4961 loss, net 1550 gain.

That's a serious hike.

12# does seem like a lot of food. I'm thinking that included the bear cannister?

Ken, I ran the first day on Topo! as well, and came up with 1000' less gain and loss. But those numbers are still high.

Looking at the map, doing it manually, to the nearest 100', I come out with a 3400' gain and 1900' loss. The day felt more like that.

The HST to Bear Paw is a gentle trail, and follows the contours pretty well. I think in this case, the trail on the map (and our tracing it on Topo!) crosses more contours than the actual trail does. Every time the trace crosses a contour, Topo! must add 40' to the profile.

When I left Bear Paw, I wasn't fully aware of what lay ahead. Bear Paw is 7700', the trail drops to 7400' at Lone Pine Creek footbridge. Up 400', down 200', then up 600 to upper Hamilton Lake. So even though it was only a 500' climb, total elevation for that part was 1000'.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #27788 09/15/12 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
I'm still not clear on what you're referring to, Bee. Sorry. I'm not being facetious, just not getting what you mean about resistance to editing/censoring/outside involvement. Oh, well.

SN, Bee is talking about two threads in the Chat Room, both have "politic" in the title, one locked, one not.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
Steve C #27789 09/16/12 09:01 AM
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I was aware of one of those threads, now I see the other.

I think Steve has done a good job bringing controversial threads to a conclusion before people start hating each other.
With the country so strongly polarized, and this being an election year, any political topic can easily spin out of control on any forum. We have a common appreciation of Mt Whitney, the mountains, and wilderness, that should be good enough. I love to vent and debate as much as anyone, but this isn't the place.

Sad times we live in but it is what it is. Two separate universes with completely different world views. Facts don't seem to matter and opinions are mostly carved in granite.

Re: HST - High Sierra Trail
SierraNevada #28084 09/27/12 12:17 AM
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I finally put together the picture album, and started a trip report. So much to write, I hope I don't bore too many.

The first installment of the report is here:
  High Sierra Trail and Pants Pass

And just for fun... A picture of bear scat in the middle of the trail; purple with berry juice, and full of seeds. On the trail near Bearpaw.


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