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October 10th overnighter
#27994 09/24/12 10:25 PM
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Planning a trip: October 10th overnighter via the main trail.

The trip is coming together, but it is certainly going to be a last minute excursion as we just stumbled upon a work trip to Utah - with a few vacation days to Whitney on the side. We cruised the recreation.gov site for a few days before two overnight passes became available on the 10th. Thanks to whoever cancelled the permits!

Should be the most challenging hike of my life, considering the altitude and weather possibilities. I've done lots of hiking in Zion and I imagine the extreme dropoffs of Whitney being similar to Angels Landing or Observation Point. So fear of heights/bears is taking a backseat to fear of AMS/pure physical exhaustion.

Due to travel requirements, I have to fly into Vegas and drive to Lone Pine. Assuming the flight and luggage goes smoothly, I plan on getting the permits at the visitor center by 2:00pm. Hope to be on the trail by 2:30pm and hit Trail Camp right at dusk @ 6:30pm. The trip has to go perfectly for us to hike by daylight, but as I am learning, headlamps and flashlights are par for the course at Whitney. So we'll pace ourselves and prepare for cold temps and dark campsite preparation.

Lots of questions are swirling as the date gets closer:

1. Hoping for no snow but if it is icy or snowy, can I rent crampons and ice axes in Lone Pine? Am I in over my head if I've never used these before?
2. Best map to purchase in preparation for the ascent?
3. I am guessing I need to prep for straight up winter temps at Trail Camp, is that right? Highs in the 30s and lows in the teens? To me this means hat, gloves, lighter winter jacket, poly long-sleeve layer, poly thermals, woolen socks?
4. How many people do you think will be up on the mountain? It would be cool to see a constant stream of headlamps milling about at all hours of the night.

Anyway, just pouring over the intel and trying to prepare as best we can.

Thanks for any input,
Bob

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #27995 09/24/12 10:59 PM
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Bob, I hope you don't mind I moved your post to its own thread. So many questions, so much we can share with you...
I've added your trip to the calendar. I see Brent N will be on the mountain. Hope the two of you cross paths.

> I've done lots of hiking in Zion and I imagine the extreme dropoffs of Whitney being similar to Angels Landing or Observation Point. So fear of heights/bears is taking a backseat to fear of AMS/pure physical exhaustion.

You won't be as close to dropoffs as Angels Landing. Bears are only an issue at Whitney Portal where day hikers might lose a day pack to a pre-dawn sneaky bear when they set it down and walk away.

With your aggressive schedule, AMS issue can be the biggest problem. Get a prescription for Diamox (Acetazolamide). Dosage is about 1/8 to 1/4 that of the old glaucoma Rx of 500 mg 2x per day. Try one or two doses at home before you come, to make sure you will be ok with it. At the low dose, there shouldn't be any side effects.

...Are you going to be at altitude in Utah in the few days before you come? That will definitely help the acclimatization!

If there is a foot of snow, crampons might help, but this early in the season, I'd skip the ice axe -- snow is just too soft for an ice axe. For that matter, if there is a foot of snow, unless you are a mountain locomotive, Trail Camp might be your turnarond point. If there is no snow, it will be a nice cruise to the summit, with maybe icy footing on the trail higher up.

You might consider overnighting at Outpost Camp -- lower elevation, more protected, so not as bone-chilling cold, AMS much less of a problem. The summit is quite reachable from there.

> 4. How many people do you think will be up on the mountain? It would be cool to see a constant stream of headlamps milling about at all hours of the night.

From last year's Unused Permits page, there were only 20 or so overnight permits given out mid-week in October. And in my experience, you may only see about half that number of actual hikers (not sure why that is). Although the reservations are all used up, the majority will be no-shows. So you're likely going to have one of those highly sought-after "outstanding opportunities for solitude" wink

...I'm sure others will help out with more of your questions.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28011 09/25/12 10:11 AM
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I was able to change my reservations to the 10th as well. We'll be camping at Outpost the first night, Trail Camp the second and then summiting and descending on the third. Bob and I have already PM'd each other. We should be able to run into each other as he passes through Outpost.

Bob, to answer a few of the questions that haven't been addressed, I think you are planning for the right temp range. So far, the weather in the forseeable future looks like it might just favor us with no snow, but that could change in a day. I will bring microspikes which should be fine for the ice, but not for snow.

On additional item you might consider for the cold is wind protection. Trail Camp at night can be calm or it can deliver gale force winds. Lightweight wind resistant pants and jacket sure help.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28017 09/25/12 11:36 AM
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This is kind of on topic but I am going to overnight Oct. 1st at trail camp and then summit and descend the 2nd. I dont have my own pair of crampons/micro spikes but should I look into renting them?

The forecast looks good for now but I am watching every day.

How big of an issue will ice be up the trail?


Come check out my weblog www.bryansoutdooradventures.blogspot.com and share your gear reviews, adventures, and trip reports!
Re: October 10th overnighter
Bryan P #28019 09/25/12 12:38 PM
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Bryan, I was descending about 8 AM from the summit on Sept 8, and a layer of frost was on the rocks. At one point I slipped and hit a knuckle on some rocks -- made the knuckle a little messy. But I was being careless and kind of hurrying.

If you're careful, you should be fine. If you want to rent, call Sierra Elevation in Lone Pine.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28021 09/25/12 02:22 PM
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I would pick up a pair. Steve is a very sure-footed hiker. (I hiked with him once and he would practically skate over loose scree over granite slabs while I slipped.) Steve's slip on ice could have been worse. I remember Richard P lamenting earlier this year that he really messed up his thumb trying to catch himself after a slip that he could have easily prevented with microspikes. At this time of the year, regardless of the forecasts, you will hike on ice somewhere above Outpost.

Microspikes don't weigh or cost much and can be worn over just about anything (including flip flops). They are tough enough to handle a mix of ice, rock and dirt so that you don't have to continually remove and put them back on again.

IMO.

Brent

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28026 09/25/12 04:05 PM
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Bob, where exactly in Atlanta are you? I and a another board member live in metro Atlanta, and have multiple Whitney trips under our belts in a wide range of weather conditions. We'd be happy to help you plan ahead for this one if you wanted to hook up.

Like Steve said, the exposure is nil, the bears are tame, and AMS will be your biggest concern (unless weather hits). There's absolutely no comparison to the fin at Angels Landing


Gary

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28032 09/25/12 10:21 PM
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Awesome, glad to have so many replies on this. So...

1. I will look up Sierra Elevation in Lone Pine and ask about renting some micro spikes.

2. I need to pick up some new clothing. I am going to make sure everything is cotton-free and has some level of wind/rain resistance.

3. I considered staying at Outpost after reading Steve's comments and talking with Brent. But I can't bring myself to commit to it. Brent, I hope we can meet up but it sounds like you have a little more time to work with than I do. I need to crash in Vegas on Thursday night and I don't think I can make it all the way summit and back to Vegas on the second day if we stop at Outpost. Curse you, Work!

The highest I have ever been was at 10K ft in the Dixie National Forest on the way to Bryce Canyon. No effects there or at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon at nearly 9K. I am hoping to use adrenaline to knock out the first 6 miles and just get that much further to the summit... that much closer to 12K and a solid place to acclimate. I am hoping to sleep from 9pm to 5am and then get an early start on the switchbacks, summit before 11am, and then prep for the long walk back to the portal.

Hoping for good weather... will catch up here tomorrow.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28034 09/25/12 10:35 PM
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Thanks, Gary. I need to take stock of my gear but might need your help in some areas. Did you and your buddy take Diamox before summiting? I am not exactly on a first name basis with any doctor and wondering if I could convince one to prescribe a medication intended for glaucoma to me for AMS? Sounds crazy, maybe it's common, who knows!

How long and where did you acclimate on the trail?
Have you encountered snow and if so, can you share a trip report on it?

Has anybody here hiked Observation Point in Zion? I am scared to ask how Whitney's switchbacks compare... but if you are familiar with both... please do tell.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28035 09/25/12 10:37 PM
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Bob, you are more time-challenged than even me!

You've never been above 10K? AMS doesn't hit most people until above 12. GET THAT DIAMOX! Hiking to 12k and sleeping a few hours there is not acclimating. It is more like bringing on the AMS symptoms, so when you wake up you feel like cr@p.

With your tight schedule, it may be dark by the time you reach Outpost Camp. Sleep there, get up a little earlier, and save your body the brutality of both hauling a heavy load the extra 1,700' elevation (and back down) and trying to sleep where many get AMS. (There are a few places between Outpost and Trail Camp where you can sleep, if you want to split the difference.)

You didn't say how much time you are spending in Utah at elevation.

I hope you and your partner can take turns driving back to Vegas after the hike!

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28037 09/25/12 10:58 PM
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> Has anybody here hiked Observation Point in Zion? I am scared to ask how Whitney's switchbacks compare... but if you are familiar with both... please do tell.

I have hiked Angels Landing, but not OP. OP trail starts about 4400' elevation, and climbs over 4 miles to 6500', for 2100' gain. Whitney's 99 switchbacks section starts at 12,000 and climbs to Trail Crest at 13,600. Crazy as it seems, the last 900' over the 2 miles to the summit often takes people longer. The higher elevation makes quite a difference.

Just hike steady, don't push yourself beyond moderate aerobic levels, and you will make it.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28040 09/26/12 04:29 AM
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Bob, feel free to give me a shout at either gfh34@comcast.net or 678-772-3962. I live in Marietta and another board member, catpappy (John), lives a few miles away. We usually try to hook up on Saturday mornings for a 6-mile, 2000-ft hike at Kennesaw Mountain. We'll be happy to talk you through what to expect on a Whitney backpack in detail if you'd like.

FWIW from a training standpoint, altitude aside, hiking the Burnt-Hickory-to-Visitor-Center out-and-back at Kennesaw 3 times will come close to replicating a Whitney main trail hike. You'll get 18 miles and 6000 feet of gain (as compared to 22 miles and 6200 feet of gain on Whitney, round trip). There are also a couple of ass-kicker trails in the Georgia mountains that can help you prepare, most notably the Arkaquah Trail at Brasstown Bald. This is a 12-mile out-and-back that gets you 4000 feet of gain.

If you've not been above 12K' before, and your acclimation time is limited, Diamox would be strongly recommended. The AMS gorilla usually jumps on your back once above 12K'. I don't normally use it, but my wife and daughter do, and it's worked great for them. Getting a scrip is pretty easy once the doc understands the intended purpose - it's not at all uncommon.

There's nothing particularly difficult about the Whitney main trail - it's just a long hike with more than average elevation gain, so your legs need to be ready. Battling the altitude effects on your body is the biggest challenge for most. Fresh snow would make micro-spikes almost useless, and crampons not much better - spikes don't bite fresh powder very well. There needs to be some consolidation before any spike (or axe) will work properly. Fingers crossed for decent weather!

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28044 09/26/12 09:21 AM
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I have hiked Observation Point and Angels Landing. I'm guessing you're concerned about the exposure on the Whitney Main Trail. I too was nervous about this but in my experience it wasn't a factor. I was able to enjoy all the views from the switchbacks and the windows. My joints, muscles, and toes were severely stressed after my Whitney hike. I advise preloading your body with 400 mg Ibuprofen twice a day starting two days before your hike. That worked great for me on my recent Half Dome hike.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28045 09/26/12 09:26 AM
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Steve and Doug have both said there is ice accumulation on the trail. If there is no snow, the microspikes will help. Like Gary says, they will be worthless in fresh snow.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28060 09/26/12 05:07 PM
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Hi Bob it's me John, the other Atlanta guy. Welcome to the board. You are going to love the Whitney area. You are welcome to borrow my microspikes if you like. Just give me a call 404-641-2822. Or better yet, meet with me and Gary at Kennesaw. My only recommendation would be to go out a day or two early and take in the sights and have a better chance at acclimating well.

There is a photo on page 7 of the picture gallery forum I took in Oct. 2009 below Consultation Lake of the seasons first big snow.

John

click me

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28061 09/26/12 06:00 PM
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Man, Steve. You are starting to make a lot of sense. I can see 40 lbs on my back really dragging on both the way up and back. So are you saying that I have a better chance of successfully acclimating at Outpost than Trail Camp? It defies logic in my head, but obviously I will take your guys' word for it.

I am looking into Diamox, we'll see what happens.

I am spending zero time in Utah prior to the hike. We fly from Atlanta to Vegas and then it's into the rental car and over to Whitney. And I can't leave any earlier than Wednesday so that's not really an option.

As I suspected, AMS is the major hurdle. Hope it doesn't bite me.

Re: October 10th overnighter
catpappy #28062 09/26/12 06:09 PM
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Gary and John. Thanks for the generosity. I will give you guys a call about heading over to Kennesaw Mountain. I have already loaded up the backpack with 35 pounds and hiked up and down the mountain a few times. Not the same but still a decent and steady climb. Are you guys available afternoons for a practice run? I'll get in touch.

I was fortunate enough to head over to Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP for 3 days this summer. It truly is like another world for someone from the Northeast (and now Southeast). I also drove up 395 into Owens Valley on my way back to Vegas after visiting the Sierras. I was literally 20 minutes from Lone Pine when I turned right and followed 190 through Death Valley. It's amazing.

I'll check out that photo from 09

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28063 09/26/12 06:23 PM
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It's funny, I am thinking about micro spikes, LED headlamps, and prescription drugs as I prepare for my hike. It always makes me laugh when I sit down to watch Ken Burns NP series and I see 65 year old men hiking in three-piece suits in the Grand Canyon. Or ladies in full ballroom regalia as they admire geysers in Yellowstone. Sometimes I think you just have to get out there. Lace up the wingtips, put a banana in my pocket, and throw on the sports jacket for a jaunt up Whitney. Then I read more forum posts and get pulled back to reality...

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28064 09/26/12 06:27 PM
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Bob, it's football season in SEC country so Saturday afternoons are generally verboten for anything other than determining who the next national champion will be (Bama, UGA, LSU, South Carolina?)! Personally, I like to get an early start hiking (much to John's irritation at times: "Six o'clock? You mean six o'clock in the morning?!") and be done before the day heats up. Give me a shout and we'll arrange something. Sundays are do-able sometimes as well.

Here's a TR on our trip last year. Still a ton of snow and ice in the Sierra last summer. Somewhere in all the verbiage is a description of the route, as well as a few photos. Here's a link to the Flickr album of the trip. Mt. Whitney is near the end of the album.


Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28066 09/26/12 06:56 PM
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Ah, opinions everyone has'em.

My opinions answers to your questions.

1. Fangs, Axe and Overhead...Elevations in Lone Pine is the place for rentals. Only you can answer the overhead question. 99% who rent tools come back unscathed. However, if fhit hits san, you can be in deep Bandini quickly. So, if it looks above you pay grade, don't do it.

2. Best map...Mt. Langley and Mt. Whitney 7.5' quads but they are not necessary to talk walk this peak. Pick the Whitney Portal Store's map. It is all you need.

3. Temperatures...it depends. It can be fine thank you very much or freezing stinking cold. If you do not bring the right warmies for conditions, your trip can be cut short. I have been on the summit when the temperature and been single digits...in August and September and have walked around the higher elevations in shorts during the month of October.

4. Crowds...Not as much as summer and if the weather turns to crap not many at all. The headlight conga line is usually seen on the lower part before dawn mid-summer when the 100 take off for their day hike.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28072 09/26/12 09:10 PM
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> So are you saying that I have a better chance of successfully acclimating at Outpost than Trail Camp? It defies logic in my head, but obviously I will take your guys' word for it.

I am saying that with your short time (~24 hours), you are NOT acclimating at all. To acclimate, people should spend a minimum of 24 hours at moderate (8-10k) elevation, and 48 hours is better ...and THEN hike the trail. With your short time, Diamox will help, and so will the luck of the draw on your genetics. As for the genetics part: You may waltz to 14.5k and be just fine, or only have a light headache and maybe no appetite. Or totally wiped out (puking or dizzy or both) by Trail Crest at 13.5k.

That reminds me: Eat a lot down low, because appetite is the first to go for many, so get it in your belly while you can. The other important item: drink fluids -- water or water with some electrolytes -- often. You probably won't feel thirsty, so consciously drink, so you pee at least once every 2 hours. Dehydration accentuates AMS.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28089 09/27/12 09:00 AM
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What Steve said and...

If you take Diamox, it is not a panacea and comes with its own set of problems. When I start it back up after not using it for a while my body does not particular care for it, so I have ease into the standard dose. Taking Diamox is not a guarantee of all symptoms AMS being eliminated. I have sleep deprivation and appetite problems regularly while dosing.

Then there is the wall, in SoCal we get to 11,500' and most who do this trip are from this part of the world. Many start walling at between 11,500' and 12,000' there first time up. I believe this has to do with what elevations you are use to hiking and knowing what to expect when reach an elevation range. I rarely have these types of problems in the Sierra, including first trips of the season.

Re: October 10th overnighter
wbtravis #28126 09/28/12 07:44 AM
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Greetings all, John and Barbara here from Bakersfield. First time posting, some reason I can't get logged in to the WPMB. I thought I'd tell about our hike plans for next week. My second trip this year, been up a couple of times in prior years and on the MWT several times. Barbara has never been all the way so Lord willing this will be the time. We'll spent Wed. night Oct. 3 at the portals. Go to outpost camp for Thursday night. We are extreamly slow hikers, average about 1 mph, Barb has delicate knees, and we are in just above average condition. And we're old 57 & 63. Never been up this time of year so are probably taking too much warm gear.I pack 50+ lbs and Barb about 25. Leave Outpost Friday when the ice melts at stream crossing before Mirror lake, bout 7. then up the steps to trail camp. Outpost to the summit is just too much for us in one day,tried that. leave trail camp about 5 am Sat.(I'm already shivering) plan on 10 to 12 hour to the summit and back. Sat. night at trail camp and back down Sunday am. Don't expect much ice on the switchbacks if the weather continues as forecast. Don't have microspikes but probably would bring if I had them. have a good marmott tent, 20degree northface bags and am buying fleece liners today. wearing poly base layer, 2 mid fleece layers, wind/rain jacket and down coat.Fleece head covering, silk bottoms and pants. gloves. If you're up you'll pass us and we'll move over and say hi. God bless.

Re: October 10th overnighter
John D #28136 09/28/12 09:18 AM
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John, it sounds like a good plan. The only thing I'd mention is that your pack seems quite too heavy.

You have to understand, though, that for this sort of trip, my pack would weigh about 11 lbs (including bear can).

That is a HUGE difference to lug up the hill.

When I've gone through hikers packs in an education program, I often find:

1. old stuff. Like antiquated stoves that are heavy.
2. Duplicates. You don't need changes of clothes. Be a little smelly, live life to the fullest.
You don't need camp shoes. You don't need wading shoes. You don't need shorts. You don't need complete cook kits. You don't need a cup and a glass.
3. inappropriate amounts of things. Ok, bring the hand lotion. Bring a 1/2 oz, not a quart.
4. people tend to bring WAY too much food.

the three worst words are "just in case"

All that said, I'm sure you'll do fine. Have a great trip.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Ken #28138 09/28/12 09:40 AM
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Thanks Ken, indeed yo're right about pack weight. I have good equipment but am taking too much warm stuff "just in case"! And honestly part of it is for exercise. Our hikes are only hours long as opposed to days long so it's not too overwhelming and I'll burn some calories. As I said, I have no experience hiking at freezing temps so don't really know how to plan/expect. So, for instance, I'm taking 2 pair of gloves, 1 lite weight and 1 for very cold. 2 pair of leg long underwear silk and fleece. That's the type of overkill I do.... Suggestions; I'll eagerly accept!!

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28146 09/28/12 01:20 PM
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As the OP I'm glad to see folks chime in with all kinds of info/questions.

Steve C, thanks for the tips about Trail Camp vs Outpost Camp. Well shoot, if I'm not truly acclimating during this trip then I guess I am just going to head for Trail Camp. I am interested in knocking out some miles during the first day so that our second day is a little shorter for the drive back to Vegas (yes, I am sure we'll be sleeping on and off during the drive back through the desert).

Also, my buddy is looking into Diamox so we'll see what he comes up with. If we get some I will definitely do a trial run before the trip.

I also enjoyed reading John D's list of items. I too tend to overpack. However, for this trip I am going with the minimalist approach. Synthetic longjohns top and bottom, REI Endeavor hiking pants (supposedly windproof, rainproof, breathable, etc.), Northface fleece over the base layer, Columbia rainproof winter coat on top. Might bring a vest to put over the base layer to start but I hope that is enough. Also got the Wigwam socks, still need synthetic winter hat and also looking at tactical weather proof shooting gloves.

My tent is a REI Half Dome 2 Plus. 0 degree Northface down bag, thermarest, MSR pocketrocket stove, and of course the bear canister, knife, lighter, medicine, batteries, headlamp, first aid, camera, and the other essentials. The rest will be food and water. I really want a 30 lb pack or less.

The tent reminds me... I am not going to be able to put a stake in the ground to secure it, am I?

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28149 09/28/12 02:27 PM
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Sounds like we have about the same gear except the sleeping bags, mine is a 20 degree, thus the fleece liner;I hope it adds some warmth. The 20 degree bag might be enough on its own, I have never used it at very low temps.
I've been lucky enough to get the same camp site each time at trail camp and staking the tent is no problem. You might not be able to everywhere but there are places you can, if not there are plenty of rocks to tie off to!

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28150 09/28/12 02:30 PM
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Outpost has lots of places to stake a tent. TC has more rock, but you will find dirt too.

30 pounds!!! For a two day trip? I wish I were as good as Ken about 11 lbs with bear canister, but I will probably be under 12 before food.

You might want to consider not carrying water until you move past Trail Camp. You will be within feet of water for most of the way until then.


Re: October 10th overnighter
John D #28151 09/28/12 02:49 PM
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John D,
You have a good tent. You have thermal underwear. You DON'T need the fleece liners inside the sleeping bags! You'll be sweating big time!

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28153 09/28/12 05:15 PM
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Thanks Steve, I just got the same advice at the outdoor shop. Seems I was taking too much clothing also. Advice well received.
So maybe I will make less than 30 lbs pack weight! Praying the weather holds good. Thank you very much!

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28172 09/29/12 10:02 PM
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trOmbley,

I'm not a big fan of the utilization of Diamox without some history, but that's me.

The REI Endeavors are soft shell pants, which I happen to own. The are water repellent and wind resistant, not waterproof and windproof. Most light softshell pants cut about ~70% of wind and are water repellent when new. I own 3 other pairs, which I use all winter.

I like a couple of pairs of gloves for this trip, especial if it cold and you are wearing your gloves most of the day. They get damp with sweat and lose their warmth when you stop.

You can cut a 1 1/2 lbs. with an Ursack. I own Bearikade but I will use the Ursack in place they are legal...and they are at Mt. Whitney.

Depending on temperature, you may want a closed cell foam mattress in addition to your Therm-a-Rest. I have spend a few night wish I had brought a second pad in the Sierra in the month of October.

Staking your tent should not be a problem. You should be prepared to guy it out. Trail Camp can get awfully windy at times and I have seen tents on this mountain where they were not left a few hours earlier by their owners.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28225 10/02/12 07:42 PM
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I'll jump in, not because I can add something new because you have plenty of advice. But it's likely we'll cross paths, so here are my plans in case we do.

I'll be camping on the 10th somewhere short of the cables, or possibly at Trail Crest. Wearing my clothes inside my 40 deg sleeping bag, perhaps augmented by a light bivy sack, will do just fine. I anticipate my overnight pack will weigh about 10 lb (less if I leave the single malt and book behind), but I'll add 3 liters of water as I ascend through Trail Camp. Have 1 to 1.5 for dinner and breakfast, carry the remainder to the summit.

We all have stories to tell, and I'm no different. Except mine are mostly older and involve people, stuff, and conditions foreign to most of you. I'm happy to tell you some of mine, but am more interested in listening to yours.

Look for some old guy in a Tilley hat, with brown shirt and a couple of brass accoutrements, looking sort of like a ranger.

Last edited by Bob R; 10/03/12 08:32 AM.
Re: October 10th overnighter
Bob R #28229 10/02/12 09:39 PM
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I've been hoping to run into you on the trail sometime, Bob. I'm glad we will get to see you. I'll be at Outpost on the 10th, Trail Camp on the 11th and then summitting on the 12th if I have acclimatized by then. My sister and I will be hiking together. She has blond hair and I don't have enough hair ;-) What do you expect your schedule to be?

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28230 10/02/12 10:43 PM
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Glad to see we are getting a crowd together for the 10th. New plans have been discussed as American Airlines continues to "strike". It has us worried about flight delays and with time being so tight already, we need to adjust.

So on the advice of the board, we're going to try to spend an extra night at the portal campground. Hope to be camping there late Tuesday night (midnight or later as we will still be driving from vegas). Hope the extra time at 8k helps us adjust.

Also, my buddy asked his doc for something to help with ams and they prescribed Albuteral (sp?). Has anybody heard of this treatment? Successes?

Looking ahead at the forecast, I did see something about snow.

Gary in ATL, sorry I haven't called yet... Kids, work, family...you know the drill...

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28231 10/02/12 11:39 PM
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Albuterol. It's an inhaler/drug used to treat asthma.

He should have specifically named Diamox ( Acetazolamide ).


Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28232 10/03/12 06:29 AM
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Bob, thoroughly familiar with that drill. It's cost me 3 different planned trips to the Sierra and/or Death Valley so far this year, most recently last month. I'm available this weekend if you want to hike/chat.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28233 10/03/12 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: tr0mbley
Also, my buddy asked his doc for something to help with ams and they prescribed Albuteral (sp?). Has anybody heard of this treatment? Successes?

I have never heard of Albuterol to prevent AMS. It has been used to treat HAPE, but that is a different issue. (Other treatments for HAPE include Viagra, etc., which can have useful side effects.)

Diamox, absolutely. You'll find plenty of testimonials on this board and in the literature.

Studies have shown that aspirin taken prophylactically, 325 mg every 4 hours for a total of 3 doses, can prevent the headaches of AMS. Ibuprofen is effective for treatment, 400 to 600 mg, repeated if necessary.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bob R #28235 10/03/12 08:10 AM
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It could be that East Coast doctors don't deal as much with altitude. It is funny. I went yesterday to pick up my prescription for Diamox, Dexamethasone (sp?) and Zofan, a prescription recommended to me by Peter Hacket at Telluride. When I picked up my prescription the pharmacist asked if I was going hiking because he recognized the combination.

As one who predictably suffers from AMS, I can tell you that Diamox does not fix my problem but it speeds my acclimatization. Even still, on Diamox, I can't go from sea level to 12,000 without puking my guts out at 12,000.

You asked about snow. Dennis Mattinson is a local meteorologist who said that some snow is possible on Monday or Tuesday. I hope not. There is a layer of ice already and new snow would not be compacted enough by Wednesday.

Bob R. You have posted your sub-10 lb pack list before. Has it changed? Would you mind posting again?

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28236 10/03/12 08:28 AM
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Bob R, I found this posting by Steve C not to long ago with your packlist. When temps are expected to drop into the teens, how does your 40 degree bag, polypro base layer and bivy bag hold up to the sub freezing temps?

Here is the text to Bob R's document from this link ( The Ultralight Pack ). Note that if you can download and print Word documents, I recommend Bob's link.

Bob has a second list, The Not-So-Ultralite Pack as well. It's about 5 pounds heavier.

The Ultralight Pack
Updated May 5, 2010
By Bob Rockwell

Here is the list that guides me on Sierra Nevada climbing trips in the summer, and I have it handy every time I pack. I know that there are people who trim the edges off their map, drill holes in their spoon, and take the string off their tea bag; I applaud their philosophy but don't do such things myself.


Carry:                                               lb  oz

Pack, 3200 cu. in. (Blast 32 from ZPacks.com) 0 6.7

Sleeping bag (Marmot Atom 40 degree), with stuffsack 1 3.4
Pad, Cascade Designs NeoAir small, with stuffsack 0 9.5
Heat Sheets Emergency bivy bag, with stuffsack 0 3.6
Ground cloth: black garbage sack with sides split 0 1.9

Down vest (Western Mountaineering Flash) & stuffsack 0 5.5
Light polypro long underwear, top & bottom 1 0.0
DWR wind shirt (GoLite Ether), in Ziplock sack 0 3.4
Light polypro balaclava 0 2.0
Light fleece gloves 0 2.2

Headlamp (Petzl Tikka Plus), with extra batteries 0 3.9
First aid kit, Adventure Ultralite .5
with toothbrush & paste 0 6.8
Toilet paper-8 sheets per day; Wash & Dry-1 per day 0 0.9
Quart Gatorade jug canteen, carried empty 0 1.8
Topo map, whistle, signal mirror, compass,
in Ziplock sack 0 3.6

Base weight: 5 7.2
Food, 1 lb 8 oz per day plus packaging: 4 0

Total for a two-day weekend trip: 9 7.2



Wear:
T-shirt
Fleece shirt
Hiking shorts
Briefs
Tilley hat
Bandanna
Sunglasses
Socks, and VBL
Lightweight Boots
Scree gaiters

Consider also:
Hiking poles
Sunscreen
Mosquito repellent
Ice ax, light
Crampons, aluminum

These weights are as measured on a regulation US Postal Service scale, so differ a little from advertised. The things to wear add another 5 lbs or so that your feet feel. Below them are a few other items that are sometimes needed.

There is no tent. And there is no provision for treating water, because virtually all High Sierra water is perfectly clean.

And no stove and cookset. If you absolutely have to have hot meals, there are plenty of lightweight options out there. For example, the Firelight Esbit Wing Stove weighs only 0.4 oz, and two 0.5 oz fuel tabs will boil a quart of water. Add an aluminum or titanium mug/pot, and your total system weighs in at less than 4 ounces.

On longer trips I take my Six Moons Gatewood cape/tarp combo (12.3 oz), and leave the emergency bivy and GoLite shirt behind. Base weight increases to 5 lb 12.5 oz.

If I have to depend on snow for topping off my canteen, I take a wide-mouth polyethylene canteen instead of the Gatorade jug. It adds 2 oz.

Finally, bear canisters are becoming required in many areas. I have a Bare Boxer Contender, weighing 1 lb 13.9 oz. For more than a few days, you may have to pull a few tricks to make it do.

Unfortunately, I have my weaknesses. Add a couple of sips of brandy per evening out.

Taking all of the above--stove/cookset, cape/tarp, canteen, canister, brandy--and total weight is only 12 pounds for a two-day trip.

The Blast 32 is comfortable up to about 20 pounds, but if need to take any technical gear, goodies to share, etc., you may want a more substantial one. The Mountainsmith Ghost (no longer available) is about the same size as the Blast 32, but with a much more rugged suspension system. It adds 2 lb 3.7 oz. There are, of course, many other choices out there.

Other substitutions are obviously possible, and I do it often. However, I always have the scale handy. I didn't invent the saying, but I do abide by it: "Watch the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves."

It should be clear that the 25 to 50 lb weekend packs so commonly seen have far more in them than is necessary.

Finally, I'm not at all fanatical about this. But operating from a list like the above is useful for identifying what's truly essential for the trip, and realizing what's just "nice to have along."

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28237 10/03/12 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Brent N
It could be that East Coast doctors don't deal as much with altitude. It is funny. I went yesterday to pick up my prescription for Diamox, Dexamethasone (sp?) and Zofan, a prescription recommended to me by Peter Hacket at Telluride. When I picked up my prescription the pharmacist asked if I was going hiking because he recognized the combination.


Brent, you are so right. Diamox hasn't been very hard to get for my wife and daughter, but the two times I've tried to get a tab or two of dex I ran into a brick wall. I explained that it was just precautionary, only to be used in the event of severe AMS at high elevation in a potential life and death situation, and was told absolutely not. Someone else I know who tried the same thing was told by the doc that if a person needed dex to pursue their hobby, they needed to find a new hobby.

No one ever gets a Diamox scrip to climb the molehills here in the east and south, so the doctors don't see much demand. I'm sure it's much more prevalent out west near higher elevations.

By the way, is your son going up with you this time? I felt so bad for him last year when we ran across you on Whitney - so close! There were a lot of kids on the mountain that week with AMS symptoms.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28239 10/03/12 09:52 AM
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No, he won't be making it up this time. He's in school. It might be another two years before he makes it up again because next summer looks too booked. The good news though is that next summer we will be going to Havasupai with his scout troop. If you haven't been, you might want to add it to your bucket list for Western state adventures.

Yup, it was a bummer last time that neither of our kids made it all the way up, but they had a great time nonetheless. I was very proud of both of them. How about your daughter. Is a Whitney summit in her future for 2013?

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28241 10/03/12 11:58 AM
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Brent, like you we had to turn around right before the summit last year. Bri and Barb were doing fine with the altitude, but it was getting really late in the day and Ranger Rob suggested we get back across the snow chute before it iced up. I'm sure you remember that chute crossing. I think we ran across you guys not far from the windows, and we didn't really go much further.

It's been eating at both Barb and Bri ever since, but plans fell through this year for our annual trip due to work and family commitments. We're certainly planning on next summer. I'm hoping to get out there sooner - at least for a winter week in Death Valley if nothing else.

Have a great climb!

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28242 10/03/12 01:20 PM
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I remember. Your daughter was a trooper--strong and energetic even at that altitude. As I recall, you ended up rescuing somebody on the way down, with a bum shoulder no less.

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28244 10/03/12 04:26 PM
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Going up Whitney with a bum shoulder from a climbing accident in Yosemite 2 days before, yes. Performing a rescue, not so much. We assisted a family several times along the trail with a patriarch suffering from bad AMS. His posts thanking us for helping them were a bit over the top. Bri was more interested in all the "cute boys" she met along the trail . . .

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28273 10/05/12 08:20 AM
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A sage once said to me, inexpensive, durable and lightweight...pick two because you will never get all three. I've pick to and end up with durable gear that is light but not ultralight. I also like comforts on the trail...it is civilized to a glass of wine at night with dinner. This add up to additional weight.

I once went to a seminar with Glen Van Peskie where he was asked about his sleep set up. There were a couple of follow up questions, What do you use for a pillow?...Mr. Van Peskie, answered, my boots. The second question was, How do you sleep? Not very well.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28293 10/05/12 05:23 PM
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wbtravis, thanks for the info, unfortunately, I am at my spending limit for this trip. Being the first cold (sub 30) trip I have done, I needed to purchase gloves, thermals, pants, socks, etc... So even though I really agree with all of your ideas and theories, I think I am locked in. I'll have to make do with what I have.

Brent N, hope to run into you guys as well. The community of hikers continues to grow and I find myself starting to look forward to the people as much as the sense of accomplishment that goes along with summiting (hopefully).

The forecast is starting to get at me a little... looks like snow is predicted. This is not good. But hell, if I get too cold I will just pull a Bob R and pack some single barrel bourbon to stay toasty.

On a side note, Gary (Bulldog34) and John (catpappy) are meeting me at Kennesaw Mountain this weekend for a hike. I think Gary even said his wife was coming. It's amazing how close this community is! Looking forward to asking some last minute questions before the trip.

Bob

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28295 10/05/12 05:55 PM
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Bob, I've hiked with Bulldog Gary's wife, and I can certify she's more of a Bulldog than he is on the trail! grin

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28297 10/05/12 07:39 PM
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Really? You wanna go there Steve? Truth be told, though, our daughter at age 12 can kick both our butts when she sets her mind to it (and isn't carrying weight). Basketball has really put her in great aerobic shape.

Looking forward to hiking with Bob in the morning. Spoke with him for over an hour a couple of days ago and he seems like a great guy. Asks intelligent questions as well. He's got the fever for western hiking, so expect to see him out there regularly.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28304 10/06/12 07:01 AM
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Tr0mbley,

One other thing, make sure bring a little extra of this and that. When I go to the Sierra, I bring a gear bin rather than a packed pack. On entry, day I make decisions on what goes up the trail. I know you are limited to what you can bring because of air travel but do the best you can.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28314 10/06/12 06:01 PM
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tr0mbley,
It was great meeting you today. Good luck on Whitney this week- and welcome to the Atlanta Whitney Family!
Can't wait to hear about your adventures! Remember the summit is optional,the parking lot is mandatory!
Happy Trails!

Re: October 10th overnighter
Steve C #28315 10/06/12 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
Bob, I've hiked with Bulldog Gary's wife, and I can certify she's more of a Bulldog than he is on the trail! grin


ahhhhh....... thanks Steve!( I think wink )

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28317 10/06/12 09:48 PM
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We are watching the weather closely. Dennis Mattinson, a local weather expert is estimating a 30% chance of snow and says he suspects Whitney will get between 1-3 inches. Any advice from others on the board? Obviously, the snow will be sitting on ice on much of the trail and will not be compacted. I haven't hiked in those conditions. Would you do it? The ice axe doesn't make any sense since there is no compaction, but microspikes or crampons?

Brent N


Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28321 10/06/12 11:40 PM
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With 3 inches of fresh snow, I'd think microspikes would be about right.

As for snow "sitting on ice"... The ice is only from frost that might form in the mornings, but disappears later as temps climb. With a snow storm, it should just be snow on the trail, not like snow over "black ice".

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28336 10/07/12 03:22 PM
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Checking in for some last minute knowledge and research before the flight on Tuesday. I know this trip only materialized a month ago, but it seems like it has been on my mind all summer. I actually reserved a day pass for Jun 12th but plans fell through (wish I had been polite and cancelled but who knew...). So now that it's here, it doesn't seem real. Can't wait.

Had a GREAT hike with Barb, Gary, and John on Saturday morning. Was astonished to learn that Gary and John met on this board as they seemed like old friends. The three of them were hiking dynamos and I thouroughly enjoyed the last minute workout before Whitney. As expected, they knew everyone on Kennesaw Mountain, were exceedingly generous with their gear and supplies, and opened my eyes to a part of northwest Georgia that I didn't even know existed. Thanks guys!

One of the things they keyed on was the family atmosphere that goes along with Whitney and the Sierras. I learned that Bob Rockwell is a Whitney legend and I hope to run into him at Trail Camp. Also looking forward to meeting Brent and his sister along the way; Gary had nothing but nice things to say about your company. Per the Atlanta veterans, I will be looking for a spot near Consolation Lake to camp, near some ledges, hidden from the wind. I also decided to bring a nip of Maker's Mark with me for the summit... it calls for celebration.

Brent, you probably have better intel than I do on the weather, but from what I can tell it only looks like a dusting. I can't control it so I can't worry about it. wbtravis, no worries on packing too much gear. I am bad at saying no, so most of the stuff comes with me and I eliminate the unnecessary the day of the hike - just like you said. Steve, the Hicks can motor! Glad I didn't have to keep up with Bri as she took the opportunity to sleep in.

All in all, I feel like I'm ready. Just hoping the flight, work, and the weather hold up. Whitney or bust!

Bob

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28343 10/07/12 06:38 PM
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You were in extraordinary company. The weather gods also seem to be favoring us. If you look on the left hand side of this page, you will see "Mt Whitney Weather." In that set of links, Dennis Mattinson's Eastern Sierra Forecast is a good place to go. Here is link today: http://www.easternsierraforecast.com/

In it, he says that the system which was threatening snow is stalling and may even be shifting south. It might miss us altogether. Even still, his guess is for a dusting of 1-3 inches. Having said that, no one can predict the weather at 14,000 feet. What is going to happen is going to happen up there and Whitney is famous for delivering surprises.
be prepared and have fun.

Did you get any Diamox?
We are still planning on going. I've got a slight groin pull, but lots of ice and anti-inflamatories and I should be good to go by Wednesday. I'll see you there.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28344 10/07/12 07:04 PM
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Brent, I gave Bob five 250 mg tabs of Diamox yesterday. It felt like a drug deal, going down in a trailhead parking lot! He's also got two sets of micro-spikes from John and I to take along - looks like they might come in handy for he and his partner.

Gotta tell ya, Bob hauled his 42-pound pack with purpose yesterday! He's one determined dude, and I think he'll do just fine if the weather gods don't throw anything too gnarly at Whitney this week. He's very sharp and extremely likable, and we had a great day hiking with him. The western mountain fever that he has reminds me so much of me ten years ago. The guy is hooked for life - I'm certain of it. Once his boys get a little older and he can introduce them to the backcountry, there's no telling what adventures they'll undertake as a family. He's already thinking Patagonia, and I don't mean Patagucci . . . :D

Bob, it was a pleasure meeting you and spending the morning hiking with you! We're all looking forward to hearing about the trip when you get back. Best of luck and remember - don't over-think it: pace, breathe, eat, drink. Repeat till you run out of trail and it's time to crack the Maker's Mark!

Edit: one last thing Bob that hasn't been mentioned. Once you leave Trail Crest for the summit, you'll come to the intersection with the John Muir Trail after a few hundred yards of heading downhill. It bears to your left and drops down into the Sierra backcountry. When you're returning to Trail Crest watch for this junction and be sure to stay straight and head UP. Many people in a state of exhaustion or AMS mistake this junction for the return to the Portal, and wind up in deep doo-doo. The signage is poorly oriented and people just want to continue down at this point. You'll have to climb a couple of hundred feet to get back to Trail Crest. Under normal conditions the trail direction is pretty obvious, but it's worth noting since it seems to happen so often.

Last edited by Bulldog34; 10/07/12 07:24 PM. Reason: Go up to go down.
Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28345 10/07/12 07:18 PM
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Bob, enjoy your trip. Wishing you the best. Hope to see you on Kennesaw again.

John

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28346 10/07/12 08:14 PM
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I'm looking forward to meeting another of Georgia's finest! (Did I tell you that I lived for 2 years in South Carolina and Georgia many moons ago? I sure miss the boiled peanuts, beaufort stew, grits and okra.)

I'm glad he got some Diamox. You are good people. Wish you were coming.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bob R #28349 10/07/12 09:58 PM
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Something has come up for tomorrow, and a separate issue for Wednesday afternoon. So my three day trip has condensed to one, on Tuesday. I don't have a plan for any summit (maybe Wotans Throne); will hike up the main trail until mid-afternoon, then turn around. Right now, that looks like the worst storm day.

I may go for an overnighter this weekend, but I hope you guys are safely off by then.

Have a nice hike!

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bob R #28360 10/08/12 01:02 PM
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Bob R, what a bummer we won't get to see you. One of these days . . .
Your timing may be much better than ours. The latest report is that it shouldn't start showering or snowing until late Tuesday night and then it should have spent itself by the weekend. We'll see what the weather brings.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28469 10/13/12 12:36 AM
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We reached the summit! Just a quick update to thank everyone on the board for chiming in with help and answers. Special thanks to the Gary and Barb Hicks and John for loaning me some critical gear. The micro pikes were invaluable. My buddy and I signed the registry on the 10th in the middle of a pretty aggressive snow squall that caught us off guard. I would say there were between 3-6 inches dumped in the trail camp area before I left to head back down to the portal at 4 PM. I saw Brent along the way and hope he made it out safely as he was not carrying a tent. The summit was amazing. I am so very grateful for being able to experience this epic journey. It was more than I could stand, yet somehow I did...

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28473 10/13/12 12:58 AM
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Congratulations, Bob! That had to be an epic hike. We watched the web cam and practically never saw the peak all day, as it was shrouded in that dense cloud.

You will have to come back and do it again some day -- so you can enjoy the views from the summit. :)

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28476 10/13/12 04:23 AM
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Congratulations Bob! Glad you made the summit and got back down safely. Too bad you were denied the vistas from the summit, but I'm sure it was memorable being up there in a snow shower. We were watching the weather this week, knowing you we're up there, and it definitely looked ugly. Happy to hear my spikes now have a Whitney pedigree since I've never used them on that particular mountain. Hope you managed a burger and/or pancake. Looking forward to hearing all about it!

So, how was the summit libation?

Re: October 10th overnighter
Bulldog34 #28487 10/13/12 12:53 PM
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Bob and Scott. Congrats. It was great fun meeting you both. We stayed at Outpost on Wednesday and headed up to Trail Camp on Thursday. Once at trail camp, we watched about 4 inches accumulate on our stuff fall in an hour. My tarp held up great in the snow. My sister's 3 season tent, not so much. It kept collapsing under the weight of the snow. Right about the time the lightning storm started, we headed down and were snowed on all the way past the portal. It's a bummer we didn't get to revist the peak, but we had a great time. The fall colors on the way up were extraordinary, and, of course, one of my favorite aspects of climbing is meeting people. I'm always amazed at how the jerks get weeded out at the lower elevations. All you are left with are good people who love the same things you do. Speaking of meeting people, we saw Rob from Crabtree and Laura from Tindall making their way down the main trail. They have closed up shop for the summer. (This was Rob's 20th summer.)

Another wonderful hike on Whitney.

Bob, what time did you summit and what time did you get back to the portal?

It looked like there was a lot of lightning up near trail camp as we were descending.

Brent N

Re: October 10th overnighter
Brent N #28488 10/13/12 02:57 PM
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Well done Bob. Was watching the Portal Store time lapse footage, wondering how much was coming down and where you guys might be on the trail. Glad you were able to summit. You got to see a beautiful side of Whitney a lot of people don't. Were there a lot of people on the trail?

John

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28504 10/14/12 04:57 PM
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Steve C, it was a weird weather pattern. We arrived on Tuesday night and it was beautiful in Lone Pine, Wednesday we had great weather for the hike, and then Thursday the skies opened up. I was really looking forward to some dramatic views from the highest peak in the lower 48 - however - the dense cloud cover almost made it feel more personal. I think it was great either way, and we DID actually manage to catch a few glimpses of brilliance to the west as the clouds parted ever so often.

Gary, I met Doug and actually got a picture with him but never had time to get food at the portal store, either on the way up the mountain or coming down. Also didn't do the bourbon at the peak. In spite of feeling really good at the summit (hungry as a horse), I thought the whole experience was beyond bourbon or dance parties or anything else. It was just quiet solitude as we were the only ones there and my buddy felt pretty exhausted. He chilled out in the hut while I walked around looking at the benchmarks and trying to catch some views between the clouds. Signing the register and writing my kids names down made for a pretty emotional moment. I put the bourbon away and enjoyed it at the hotel later on.

Brent, glad you got down safely. We were worried about you guys. When we got off the mountain we laid in the tent for 10 minutes recovering and the snow piled up against the tent very fast. We had 3 new inches of snow when we got done resting and the tracks to our tent were virtually gone. It was nearly impossible to pack up in the wind and driving snow. Everything was soaked to the core because the snow got into everything. I left trail camp at 4:10 pm and got to the portal at about 6:45 pm. Wondering how much snow was dumped on that area when everything was said and done...

On Thursday, we woke up at 3:30am and got on the switchbacks by 4:45am. We were the 5th and 6th hikers on the mountain. We made it to Trail Crest by dawn (7am) and then to the summit by about 10:20am. We hung out for a while and then left by 11am. We got back to trail camp by about 3pm. Packed up and out of there at 4:10pm, back to the portal by about 6:45pm. Just at dusk.

We heard thunder, saw lightning, had rain, sleet, snow, heavy snow, hail, etc. The precipitation stopped at around Outpost Camp, but was snow was on the ground until the John Muir Wilderness sign on the way down.

John, I think there were about 10 tents at Outpost Camp on the way up, a few groups coming down on Wednesday that were completing the JMT, and there were about 6 or 7 tents at Trail Camp when we got there at 4:30pm on Wednesday. We also saw several people that were doing dayhikes. So I think there were about 40-50 people on the mountain. I think we ran across every person that attempted the summit that day. 3 from outpost camp and 1 unknown that made it before us, then Johnathan and I, and then 4 dayhikers, and 2 more unknown. I know 3 of the dayhikers made it because they passed us on the way back down and we talked.

It's fun to recap, so maybe I'll do a trail report and dive into all the details.

Bob

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28508 10/14/12 07:15 PM
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Left Trail Camp at 4:10 and at the Portal at 6:30? Did you use a zipline? You were blazing. You really timed it exactly right, all things considered. I think we left trail camp after you and the winds and snow got heavier, and then there was the lightning. I was amazed at how quickly tracks got filled in. We went down about 40 minutes after another couple--their tracks were non-existent. I was extremely glad I brought up the gps. Particularly when we couldn't see more than 30 feet or so, it was our primary guide for the location of the trail on a couple of places.

Again, nice job. I'm so glad you guys got to summit. Hopefuly the whole Georgia contingent will come back again.

Brent

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28509 10/14/12 09:01 PM
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Brent, you are right, we were FLYING! A lot of things played into the rapid decent.

1. After summiting, we met a group of younger hikers heading toward the section with the windows. The first girl was wearing sneakers, sweatpants, a light jacket and a small pack. Her friends (guy and girl - all in the their 20s), were dressed a little more appropriately but still didn't look prepared for the weather. We actually warned other hikers arriving at Trail Camp as we were leaving that a small group of young hikers may be in trouble on the switchbacks because the snow had arrived so suddenly. Anyway... The amazing thing was that they left THE PORTAL at a little after 4am and were about to summit by about 11:15am or so. We applauded them for their speed! My buddy and I thought we were a little slow on the way up to the summit so we wanted to make up for lost time on the decent. I think we did. But shortly after packing up at trail camp and heading for the car, the same group of younger people came up on us quick. They had summitted and were heading back for the car too. They had so much steam as they hiked, it's still incredible to me. To estimate that they were hiking at 4 mph would not be an exaggeration. In the white out! I can remember the lighting and thunder and trying to stay up with them as a group as we went down. There were places where the "kids" in their SNEAKERS were leaping through the snow, running, dancing from rock to rock... It was too much for us and we let them get out of reach by outpost camp. They were robots, cyborgs! They had taken 2 Diamox pills each, not sure if that had something to do with it. They all drove multiple hours to whitney, and they were all heading back home after the hike. They reached the bottom at least one hour before we did, which puts their entire time on the mountain at about 14 hours. They were hiking machines. I want to say we reached Lone Pine Lake by 5:30 thanks to their pace setting through the blizzard. It couldn't comprehend their speed. My buddy and I are still talking about it. We still hiked fast from Lone Pine Lake to the portal but it still took us about an hour and 15 minutes.

2. We had to drive to Vegas right after the hike so we wanted to make it their at a reasonable hour.

3. We rushed to try and get below the snow line but that didn't really happen until somewhere around the John Muir Wilderness sign.

Yeah, I am very thankful to have summited even if the experience wasn't typical. Can't really imagine any two hikes on Whitney being the same.

Re: October 10th overnighter
tr0mbley #28520 10/15/12 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: tr0mbley
Can't really imagine any two hikes on Whitney being the same.


And that, my new friend, is why we keep coming back. She is different and wonderful every time, and she never fails to deliver a surprise.

Brent N.

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