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#33592 - 10/02/13 09:58 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: RenoFrank]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
I see Cloud9 is new here, having posted only twice. I remember the excitement and wonder of my first Whitney climb (2010), which came after a year of physical training, two years of weight loss, putting together a team, learning about the mountain (from, among other sources, the wise folks here), and reading up on altitude. The preparation paid off, and the experience was one of the finest of my life. It changed my life, actually (not just the summit...the whole journey). I see that enthusiasm in Cloud9's post.

Welcome, Cloud9. Cool trail name, I'm surprised it wasn't taken already. Be safe, and have fun.

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#33593 - 10/02/13 10:10 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: RenoFrank]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
Hi Frank,

your query of "what causes..." made me think about an interaction that I had just today. A close friend of mine has a son who lives at least two thousand miles away, and all he can think about is coming to Ca to hike Whitney. I exploded about a lot of places that are far more beautiful...blah blah blah. The wise father responded that I had the luxury of close proximity, thus, my opinion was sharply skewed by experience. The boy was only going to get to pick ONE place in time, and Whitney was HIS choice, so bee a sport and help him with his goal.

I had the luxury of close proximity & experience

You will notice that some of the harshest critics are those with accessablity & experience; such is the combination that can turn the nicest person into the harshest critic-cum-know-it-all. All too often experience forces us to retain the worst of possibilities and forget the encouraging optimistic words of delight.

I do not believe that in his heart of hearts Bob meant to rain on people's parades for a self-serving motivation, rather the memories of those times when unbridled determination rendered unfortunate outcomes still loom large -- especially for a former SAR team member(Bob) dispatched to clean up the results.

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#33594 - 10/02/13 10:16 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Bee]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7876
Loc: Fresno, CA
"the luxury of close proximity & experience"

Aha!!! That really does put a label on the phenomenon. like!

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#33595 - 10/02/13 10:20 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Steve C]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7876
Loc: Fresno, CA
Hate to pull this thread back to the subject, but I see Doug at the Whitney Portal Store has announced that he...

"Just got word the campground is closed and they have 48 hours to secure the campground. Until we hear more information the store will stay open."

I would assume, then, that the overnight spots up at Horseshoe Meadow are (or will soon be) closed to camping, too.

I'll bet they lock up the toilets everywhere, too.

Now I wonder about parking lots.

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#33596 - 10/03/13 01:23 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: JimC]
Mike T Offline


Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Sacramento, CA
I just left Whitney Portal this a.m after summiting on 1 October...being out of the loop for a few days, people going up were commenting "there is no government down there" I was scratching my head, till I realized what they were talking about. We left Portal campgrounds at 11am 2 October and it did seem to be sparse, no signs though or any "signs" of closure. There is NO ranger checking for permits at the Whitney Zone as there was when we were going up....as I told everyone else..GO UP WHITNEY NOW, NO RANGERS TO CHECK FOR PERMITS!!! grin

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#33602 - 10/03/13 07:15 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Mike T]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
This time of year, it is easy to get a walk in permit, even when govt is functioning. No hiker is turned away in a normal year in October. But the rangers do an important job...many important jobs...so this ain't no bonanza. IMHO.

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#33604 - 10/03/13 07:59 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Steve C]
JimC Offline


Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 57
Loc: SoCal
Lock up the toilets? They'll have to repair the locks on the ones in the lower parking lot. One is completely out. The other wasn't working. Also, in July, one of the ones at the trail head wouldn't lock. Does this constitute an emergency? Can they expend funds (safety of life exception) during the shutdown on account of this emergency? grin If so, I can come up with enough repair ideas to keep all the rangers employed indefinitely. I'm going up Saturday after a night at the Hostel. Right now the weather looks great smile


Edited by JimC (10/03/13 08:03 AM)

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#33605 - 10/03/13 08:04 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Steve C]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 836
Loc: Sheridan, OR
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Hate to pull this thread back to the subject, but I see Doug at the Whitney Portal Store has announced that he...

"Just got word the campground is closed and they have 48 hours to secure the campground. Until we hear more information the store will stay open."

I would assume, then, that the overnight spots up at Horseshoe Meadow are (or will soon be) closed to camping, too.

I'll bet they lock up the toilets everywhere, too.

Now I wonder about parking lots.


Shame...those people who made reservations for the campground and the permits...a deposit with no return.

Bet Doug is going to suffer a severe hit with the lack of business. It is October and the store will close in November, but let's hope the WP Store stays open until November 1. Hang in there, Doug and Earlene and the Portal Crew!

Bet dah bears are pissed without the campers. (I just had to say that.)

A lot of people across the US are fuming because of a change of plans due to closures like this. People planned family outings, weddings, etc. We wanted to go down to the Grand Canyon before Thanksgiving. Oh well, guess we will save on time and money. Will just get more turkey to bake or deep fat fry.

My wife and I wanted to go fishing on Tioga Lake and Ellery Lake this October (possibly November) and fish in Lee Vining Creek, but since Yosemite NP is closed and Tioga Pass is closed that won't happen it will have to be Bass Lake near Oh Cursed (Oakhurst, CA).

Lesson to learn: Never make any reservation that deals with the government around October 1 because of the new fiscal year.

Hopefully, your state parks can provide a great alternative during these troubling times.

My wife works for Social Security as a District Manager. She had planned leave this week. Due to the shutdown, she had to report to work. She cannot take leave during this shutdown. If this SD continues, she and her colleagues will have to work on Columbus Day and Veterans' Day (observed federal government holidays). Thanksgiving and Christmas? Working on those days is a possibility if this SD lasts that long.

Yes, all SSA offices are opened. Check with your local SSA office for hours of operation. This was a public service announcement.
_________________________
Journey well...

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#33606 - 10/03/13 08:06 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Akichow]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
Hey! Half Dome is WIIIIIIIIIIIDE open, yo! Let's hit it!

Let's definitely toss around the proximity and experience phrases.

I, like SO many others, started out with Whitney being my first "big time" mountain. For me, summiting the mountain carried a myriad of emotions, but most importantly, when I looked in all directions, I found myself asking, "What's over there?" And so began the insane roller coaster. One year later, I had uprooted myself entirely and moved to Bishop. I created my proximity.

And with that proximity came a sense of ownership. This range is not only my home, it is my friend. And I've watched as some of my favorite areas -- The WZ, Yosemite Valley -- become "loved to death". But it's not love: it's throwing another trophy on the shelf. And, yeah, watching certain places being reduced to that makes me angry.

Proximity also brings familiarity with those who share living here, and who populate the SAR teams up and down the Sierra. Those who put their own lives at risk in order to try and save those for whom the shit has hit the fan. Perhaps that's one reason why I am so bloody careful all the time: the guys have pretty much looked me in the face and said: We don't want to have to come get you.

Enthusiasm is one thing: and sorry, Cloud9, if you (and the person who posted above you about the same thing) bore the brunt of this due to your example. What *I* read, and took away from, your post, was roughly translated as "I want! I want! I want!" <insert pounding fists on table>

Yes, the government shutdown is stupid. Yes, I can't believe that we've got a Congress with a 90% incumbancy and a 10% approval rating. But does that mean we resort to anarchy (which is kind of what's happening here: Quick! The cats away! Let's PLAY!!)?

So if y'all are up there this weekend, take a second to think what it takes to keep a place like the WZ as awesome as it is coupled with the human impact (and I SWEAR TO GOD if someone brings up the solar toilets here I'm going to reach through the damn computer and...). Take an extra few garbage bags with you. Do your part. Use this time to not only achieve what is a dream for you, but help keep the area a little more pristine for others yet to come.

Own it.
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#33607 - 10/03/13 08:11 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: + @ti2d]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
Originally Posted By: + @ti2d


My wife and I wanted to go fishing on Tioga Lake and Ellery Lake this October (possibly November) and fish in Lee Vining Creek, but since Yosemite NP is closed and Tioga Pass is closed that won't happen it will have to be Bass Lake near Oh Cursed (Oakhurst, CA).


My wife works for Social Security as a District Manager. She had planned leave this week. Due to the shutdown, she had to report to work. She cannot take leave during this shutdown. If this SD continues, she and her colleagues will have to work on Columbus Day and Veterans' Day (observed federal government holidays). Thanksgiving and Christmas? Working on those days is a possibility if this SD lasts that long.

Yes, all SSA offices are opened. Check with your local SSA office for hours of operation. This was a public service announcement.



Gary, 120 is open, you just aren't allowed to "recreate" off the road. Or something...

SR 120
[IN THE CENTRAL CALIFORNIA AREA & SIERRA NEVADA]
NO TRAFFIC RESTRICTIONS ARE REPORTED FOR THIS AREA.

[YOSEMITE NAT'L PARK]
FOR YOSEMITE NAT'L PARK ROAD INFORMATION CALL 209-372-0200

Article about the roads.

So don't give up on Ellery/Tioga Lakes.

Yeah, working Thanksgiving/Xmas is less than optimal. I know in healthcare we're always saying, how DARE people get sick on the holidays!!
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#33611 - 10/03/13 09:11 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: MooseTracks]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7876
Loc: Fresno, CA
MooseTracks wrote:
> ...and I SWEAR TO GOD if someone brings up the s...

I can't resist... Pssst, hey Laura, "If you build it, they will come."

grin

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#33614 - 10/03/13 10:28 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Steve C]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 370
Loc: Wildomar
Originally Posted By: Steve C
MooseTracks wrote:
> ...and I SWEAR TO GOD if someone brings up the s...

I can't resist... Pssst, hey Laura, "If you build it, they will come."

grin


Actually, if you build it, they will crap.

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#33616 - 10/03/13 12:57 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: DUG]
+ @ti2d Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 836
Loc: Sheridan, OR
Gimme an S
Gimme an O
Gimme an L
Gimme an A
Gimme an R

Gimme a T
Gimme an O
Gimme an I
Gimme an L
Gimme an E
Gimme another T

What's that spell?

F-L-U-S-H T-H-E S-H-_-T-D-O-W-N! (insert any vowel for your personal enjoyment!

Thank for the info on 120, Moose!

I read the article...no stopping, no hiking...so what if you have a "flat tire?"...heck Tuolumne Meadows is closed anyways.

BTW, since there is no one manning the gates, does that mean the entrance to the park is F-R-E-E cuz they shut down everything and you can't top, can't hike, can't get a flat tire?
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Journey well...

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#33618 - 10/03/13 01:51 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: + @ti2d]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
Y'all are going straight to hell.

No stopping. No hiking. No climbing. No flat tires...

laugh grin laugh grin laugh
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#33619 - 10/03/13 02:02 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: MooseTracks]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 370
Loc: Wildomar
Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
Y'all are going straight to hell.

No stopping. No hiking. No climbing. No flat tires...

laugh grin laugh grin laugh



I've been there and I'm due back soon................DUG

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#33620 - 10/03/13 02:15 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: DUG]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
DUG n me, cruisin' the halls of hell...

I'll bring cookies.
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#33623 - 10/03/13 04:57 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: JimC]
Pingbong Offline


Registered: 10/03/13
Posts: 1
Loc: California
Hey All,

Just got off the phone with the Store and they said they are being told they have to close because they're on federal land AND that they road IS being closed... Was supposed to be heading up tmw for a Sunday summit, but I think closing the road is the nail in the coffin.

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#33624 - 10/03/13 07:17 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: Pingbong]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
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#33625 - 10/03/13 08:52 PM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: MooseTracks]
SierraNevada Offline


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1148
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
...(and I SWEAR TO GOD if someone brings up the solar toilets here I'm going to reach through the damn computer and...)

Reach on, said Bill Gates.

Bill Gates' foundation puts money on solar-powered toilet
Tue, Aug 14 2012

By Bill Rigby

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Bill Gates is betting the toilet of the future for the developing world will be solar powered.

The world's leading private philanthropist handed a $100,000 prize to the California Institute of Technology on Tuesday for its work on a self-contained, sun-powered system that recycles water and breaks down human waste into storable energy.

Gates is focusing on the need for a new type of toilet as an important part of his foundation's push to improve health in the developing world. Open defecation leads to sanitation problems that cause 1.5 million children under 5 to die each year, Gates said, and Western-syle toilets are not the answer as they demand a complex sewer infrastructure and use too much water.

The Microsoft Corp co-founder is looking to change that by sparking new inventions in toilet technology, which he says has not fundamentally changed since the invention of the flush toilet in 1775.

"Imagine what's possible if we continue to collaborate, stimulate new investment in this sector, and apply our ingenuity in the years ahead," Gates said at his foundation's Seattle headquarters on Tuesday. "Many of these innovations will not only revolutionize sanitation in the developing world, but also help transform our dependence on traditional flush toilets in wealthy nations."

His foundation announced $3.4 million in new funding on Tuesday for toilet projects being worked on by various organizations, bringing total investment in its "Reinvent the Toilet Challenge" to about $6.5 million.

About 2.6 billion people, or 40 percent of world's population -- mostly in sub-Saharan Africa and south Asia -- lack access to safe sanitation and are forced to defecate in the open, according to Gates.

Last year the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave grants to eight universities around the world to help tackle the problem by creating a hygienic toilet that uses little or no water, is safe and affordable and can transform waste into energy, clean water and nutrients.

CREATES ENERGY

Gates presented prizes on Tuesday to the teams that showed the most progress, handing Caltech the first prize of $100,000 for its working model of a solar-powered bathroom, where a solar panel produces power for an electrochemical reactor that breaks down feces and urine into hydrogen gas, which can be stored in hydrogen fuel cells to provide a back-up energy source for night operation or use in low-sunlight conditions.

The workings of the toilet are designed to be buried underground beneath a conventional-looking stall and urinal set-up, which the Caltech team showed in cross-section at the Gates Foundation courtyard. Water recovered from the continuous process is pumped up again to provide water to flush the toilet.

Gates also handed out prizes to Britain's Loughborough University and Canada's University of Toronto for their designs, which focus on transforming feces into usable resources.

The software pioneer is hoping many of the universities work together to develop the best technologies and is aiming to get new-style toilets into use in the next two to four years.

Gates' foundation is spending about $80 million a year on water, sanitation and hygiene issues, areas where it thinks it can make a marked difference in people's lives.

The $370 million in total it has committed to that area so far is still only a small slice of global funding for health, development and education provided by the foundation, which has handed out, or is committed to, more than $26 billion in grants since Gates started his philanthropic endeavors in 1994.

The foundation, which Gates co-chairs with his father and wife, Melinda, is the world's biggest private philanthropic organization with an endowment worth more than $33 billion.

(Editing by Eric Beech)

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#33626 - 10/04/13 06:45 AM Re: Is permit office open if government is "shutdown" ? [Re: SierraNevada]
MooseTracks Offline


Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Bishop, CA, United States
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada


About 2.6 billion people, or 40 percent of world's population -- mostly in the Whitney Zone and Yosemite Valley -- lack access to safe sanitation and are forced to defecate in bags that they have to carry themselves, according to Gates.



(Editing by Moosetracks)


There, fixed it for ya!! wink


I'm bothered by thinking about what "usable resources" might be... ew ew ew ew ew...
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