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#35536 - 03/28/14 09:21 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Hobbes
Based on my calculations, I'm going to carry 4L from the TH, again knowing I'll probably be out by LP Lake on the return.


I want to make sure that I am understanding what I am reading: Are you going to carry 4litres of water for a day hike on the Whitney Main Trail?

Carrying a filter would be a lot lighter than carrying all that water, as you will be crossing available sources all the way to the foot of the switchbacks (which offers a huge source at Trail camp)

If one is concerned about the 1 minute it takes to filter the water, I would pose that the extra load of all that water would definitely slow one down much more.

On the very safe side, 2Litres would be more than enough with all the refill opportunities(overkill) up to the switchbacks
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#35537 - 03/28/14 09:49 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7834
Loc: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted By: Hobbes
I'm planning on hiking my first r/t day hike this summer (prior trips have been from the back route). Based on my calculations, I'm going to carry 4L from the TH, again knowing I'll probably be out by LP Lake on the return.

If I really need to, I can treat some water there before heading down, or just gun it and rely on the store's abundance of good things to eat/drink when I arrive.

Hobbes, carrying 8 lbs of water from the trail head is not the best approach. That weight is unnecessary and will slow you down. And you probably will run out so you will need to dip more along the trail anyway.

Why don't you check this, thanks to volunteer ranger Bob Rockwell:
  Reliable Water Sources Along the Mt. Whitney Trail (a PDF document)
  related pictures: Water availability along the Mt. Whitney Trail

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#35572 - 03/30/14 05:46 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Bee]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Originally Posted By: Bee
Originally Posted By: Hobbes
Based on my calculations, I'm going to carry 4L from the TH, again knowing I'll probably be out by LP Lake on the return.


I want to make sure that I am understanding what I am reading: Are you going to carry 4litres of water for a day hike on the Whitney Main Trail?

Carrying a filter would be a lot lighter than carrying all that water, as you will be crossing available sources all the way to the foot of the switchbacks (which offers a huge source at Trail camp)

If one is concerned about the 1 minute it takes to filter the water, I would pose that the extra load of all that water would definitely slow one down much more.

On the very safe side, 2Litres would be more than enough with all the refill opportunities(overkill) up to the switchbacks


Everything depends on the day and the individual's needs, Bee. I have never been able to get by with 2L and still be properly hydrated for that section. I have need 3 to 5L for the Trail Camp to Trail Camp RT or equivalent...the 5 being on a day that did not see 40* F. Sometimes, the seeps on the lower switchbacks do not flow because being dry or frozen. Oh, the last L the 5L day was snow being added to my last L of water from the summit.

Most 22 mile days, I will go through 6 L, especially one with as much sun exposure as the MMWT.

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#35573 - 03/31/14 12:09 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: wbtravis]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
I quite agree, WB. I have desert blood and other unique metabolic properties that can skew my idea of requirements.

I think what I was trying to convey was that a 4 litre capacity was a bad idea on both ends of the spectrum:

* It is too much water to carry all of the time

* It is too little water to carry for the whole trip
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#35575 - 03/31/14 08:35 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Bee]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Bee,

I agree with your assessment that it is too heavy and too little.

In 1997 for my first trip up, I did not want to use chemicals or buy a filter, this being a one and done thingy for me. Therefore, I put six liters of water in my handy dandy $10 day pack and headed for the hills.

The following day I bought a filter, which I still have and have not used in over 5 years.

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#35622 - 04/01/14 12:22 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: wbtravis]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 144
Loc: The OC
Hey gang, good feedback. I've filled up a pint bottle @ switchback #23 before on the way down. All the other locations seem questionable, to the point I would have doubts about filtering.

(Don't get me wrong - I love the Whitney area, but let's be honest, it does have a bit of a Woodstock feel to it in terms of masses of humanity not practicing very good, shall we say, outdoor etiquette.)

What's the consensus here on a day hike? Start with 2L (pre-filled the night before at the TH) to get to the top, then fill up @ the upper spring on the way down?

8lbs of water doesn't seem that heavy. After all, I'm used to doing 15m+ days with a backback. Now, admittedly, it's a UL set-up, but it's still in the neighborhood of 15-20lbs.

What I don't want to do is hang around dealing with water issues. If I can assemble a day pack around 12+- lbs, including 8 lbs of water, then it seems pretty good to me. However, if I can drop 4-6lbs (2-3L) without adding too much distraction, then I'm open to ideas/suggestions.

Feel free to chime in, but the upper spring idea might be the key. In fact, do you think you can make it to the spring with 1L, fill up on the way up, have lunch/re-hydrate @ the peak, and then fill up 2L on the way down and make it all the way back to Portal?

Or take 3L of containers and fill up 3L for the entire trip back? I don't like the idea of dealing with LP Lake - I'd rather just jam back the last 2.5m.


Edited by Hobbes (04/01/14 12:31 PM)

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#35623 - 04/01/14 12:59 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7834
Loc: Fresno, CA
Hobbes, I think you are seriously underestimating your water requirements on the hike. I myself dip and drink at every stream crossing. You can do that, or carry something to filter or treat the water.

Be sure to read the Water filtration thread.

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#35628 - 04/01/14 04:32 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
I think one of the issues that I have is the idea of "knowing" how much water you will need, and tying into that amount. I am reknowned for how little I eat and drink (always been this way) but one time I was not feeling well, so I guzzled 2litres in a very short distance. I needed this water, and soon after, I felt fine.

Whether you dip & sip or filter, be sure to leave your options open to take in as much water as you may need at the moment.

BTW, I have filtered and not filtered during trips (some areas have huge livestock presence) and with a little practice, filtering took minutes (really, doncha want to stop and rest a few times during the trip??)
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#35629 - 04/01/14 04:49 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Chris B Offline


Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 69
Loc: Denver, CO
Hobbes,

Everyone's different in their water requirements. I drank 6L on my way up the mountain, and one on the way down (which probably should have been 2-3L). I carried 3-4L for the trip from Portal to Trail Camp, filtered/filled there, and re-loaded for the rest of the summit. Had the option to refill again when I got back down before the final push back down.

Admittedly, we had two filters within a group of five people, so it was easier to carry a bit more than have to make a 30 minute stop to filter enough water for us all.

Plenty of people hike with less, but I hear lots of stories of people on the back side of Whitney pushing for the summit who ran out of water. I'd never want to be in the place. I always carry a little extra water with me everywhere I go, and never have to worry about rationing it out on my hikes.

All personal at the end of the day, but I never mind carrying a bit of extra water.

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#35634 - 04/02/14 08:54 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Chris B]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
I don't do the day hike thingy any more but when I did...

2 liters to Trailside Meadow.

Have a meal and go to 4 liters...just one stop.

Check water at the seeps on switchbacks on the way down...if I need water add it here.

Stop at Trailside Meadow for sustenance, head dunk and foot soak.

Then back to Whitney Portal for a shower and Chicken Sandwich and Fries.

It's a real simple plan.

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#35636 - 04/02/14 09:30 AM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: wbtravis]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 144
Loc: The OC
Perfecto. Just the kind of advice I was looking for - thanx.

I'm not good with water management, because I'm a dip & drink (I never take a filter, and usually skip chemical treatment) person.

I've made most of my own gear, and one of the things I really like about my pack are the two bottle holders I crafted/sewed to the front of each shoulder strap between the buckle & sternum strap anchor point. Made from velco + a small bungy cord, they each snugly hold 20oz (.6L) gatorade bottles.

So not only is my water right there ready to either be used or re-filled without taking off my pack, but it also puts 2.5lbs (40oz) of pack weight center-forward around my sternum. (I will use these same bottles with my regular, commercial day pack.)

The couple of times I've done Whitney from the backside, I left Guitar with the two 20oz bottles and a 1.8L platypus, so I had essentially 3L. I recall re-filling the gatorade bottles at the spring, but left the plat in the pack.

That would make a total of around 4.2L over the 15-16 miles. But I also remember being out of water by LP Lake, but deciding to gun it to the store rather than deal with finding a decent source (not the creek) around the lake.

So I could have used 5L+ to get all the way back, which is .3L per mile. The r/t day hike is 20-21 miles, which would equate to 7L. No wonder you guys thought I was undergunned.

So what about this plan:
- 3L to the spring (bottles + plat)
- refill as needed @ spring on the way up
- refill as needed @ spring on the way down

Max would be 9L if I was totally empty at each point, but more likely total consumption would be somewhere in the range of 6-7L.

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#35641 - 04/02/14 04:31 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Hobbes]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
"Refill as needed" is the most important part of this plan (next to carrying enough to last up & back from the switchbacks)

All of the rest is subject to the moment, as "refill as needed" may occur at any time or place that offers water (you may be in the mood for a cold cold fresh refill)
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#35643 - 04/02/14 06:05 PM Re: Gear for first attempt in late July? [Re: Bee]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1253
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
All estimates go out the window on those high humidity monsoon days. I have gone through 2 L in two miles on those days.

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