Is the Bare Boxer still about the lightest option and lowest price for a solo hiker these days? Will just be using it for overnights at Whitney and around bear country here in Arizona. any advice would be appreciated! I would also be interested in a used one if you have something available. Thanks
Last edited by hike500; 03/24/1411:08 PM.
“Any thoughts of guilt, any feelings of regret, had faded. The desert had baked them out.” - Stephen King
I use the Bear Boxer and I love the balance of weight AND shape. I say this, because the Bearrakade(sp) might be a few ounces lighter, but the size is not nearly as accomodating(unless there is a model I don't know about) as the solo Bear Boxer (which I have used for trips up to four days+)
PS check out EBAY -- that's where mine came from
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
The Bearikade is aprox 9" diameter cylinder. The different models just have different heights, same 9" diameter cylinder.
The Bare Boxer is more tapered towards the ends, so it allows for more flexibility when putting it in your pack.
For the $ & weight difference, the Bare Boxer weekender is a better deal.
Although, Bearikade does offer custom sizing for height. So if you want something a little shorter, but still 9" diameter, they will make it. Check out the pricing list on the Custom Bearikade tab on the Wild Ideas web site.
I use the Bear Boxer and I love the balance of weight AND shape. I say this, because the Bearrakade(sp) might be a few ounces lighter, but the size is not nearly as accomodating(unless there is a model I don't know about) as the solo Bear Boxer (which I have used for trips up to four days+)
PS check out EBAY -- that's where mine came from
I think the Bare Boxer will be the way to go, now I will search for a used one if possible. Thanks
“Any thoughts of guilt, any feelings of regret, had faded. The desert had baked them out.” - Stephen King
Bearikade rocks. Amazing product. Comes in three separate sizes, or custom. Is expensive and is the lightest when you compare volume to weight -- in this case, the Scout is the smallest NON-CUSTOM size, and it is 2.4 ounces heavier but has almost twice the volume (180 percent) of the Bear Boxer. It is worth it if you do this stuff alot. Though it is expensive, and 1.6 inches wider in diameter, so if you want to save money and/or need a narrower product, I can see why you might go with the Bear Boxer.
I had no idea how expensive this stuff is (all of my stuff was bought mint condition on Ebay)
...and I was hyperventilating over the $150.00 Neo Air that popped the first time my buddy used it (after fixing it, I borrowed it and I must say that it is fabulously comfy)
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Bearikades are an investment and if I ever should not need them any longer, I can sell them on ebay for 80% of new price.
While there is huge turnover in used bear cans on ebay - each season's Muir Trail prospects seems to buy a can to hike one trip and then sells them again - you rarely see Bearikades offered. They are mostly bought by regulars who don't let them go. They are that good. Hard to improve. Everything else in my gear closet keeps changing and costing me money every year or two, while I don't spend another thought on bear cans.
Ditto. I looked long and hard for a used Bearikade before I plonked the money down two seasons ago. Meanwhile, the new price of a Bearikade has jumped over 10% since I bought mine...I could sell mine tormorrow for what I paid for it.
Also, Bearikades are easy to open, and because the opening does not taper, getting to your stuff is fairly easy. The tapered ones force you to root around a bit.
I once wrote a poem about my Bearikade. It's pretty bad, so I'll spare you. But yes, they are that good.
Hmmm...if I'm not mistaken the Ursack is 7.3 oz. and holds the equal of a big canister.
wbtravis... I have always wondered about the Ursack.
Are there any USFS Districts or NPS authorities that recognized it as "kosher."
Also this may be silly, but how do they stand up to Marmots? In the last 6 years I've spent in the High Sierra I've been given more trouble from Marmots than bear (I've never even seen a bear in Whitney Portal or the Backcountry [including the JMT]).
@jjoshuagregory (Instagram) for mainly landscape and mountain pics
I just picked up a Bare Boxer on Whiteblaze.net for 50.00 shipped in like new condition. I have used one before so it should be just fine. Thanks for all the replies!!
“Any thoughts of guilt, any feelings of regret, had faded. The desert had baked them out.” - Stephen King
I love my Bearikade Of the lightest and strongest materials it is made The Garcia is heavy and scrapes my hand When into its dark depths I grope blindly for foods both flavorful and bland The Bear Vault is a little lighter Than the Garcia, but it’s a fighter Try opening the lid when it is really cold Pushing, pulling, jabbing with a spoon, whatever … it gets really old Yeah, the Bearikade costs an awful lot But it will lighten your load, up mountains you’ll trot Happy in the knowledge that your food is safe and sound And that your pack is lighter by maybe half a pound Now this inartful poem must come to an end To pleasant dreams of the JMT, I now my mind will send.
I love my Bearikade Of the lightest and strongest materials it is made The Garcia is heavy and scrapes my hand When into its dark depths I grope blindly for foods both flavorful and bland The Bear Vault is a little lighter Than the Garcia, but it’s a fighter Try opening the lid when it is really cold Pushing, pulling, jabbing with a spoon, whatever … it gets really old Yeah, the Bearikade costs an awful lot But it will lighten your load, up mountains you’ll trot Happy in the knowledge that your food is safe and sound And that your pack is lighter by maybe half a pound Now this inartful poem must come to an end To pleasant dreams of the JMT, I now my mind will send.
Most excellent sir, you leave me second guessing my purchase.
Last edited by hike500; 03/26/1407:16 PM.
“Any thoughts of guilt, any feelings of regret, had faded. The desert had baked them out.” - Stephen King
You might consider the Ursack White model, with the metal enclosure. I've used it for several years with no problems in Sierra bear country. Problems with it have occurred when users don't follow the manufacturer's instructions. The closure knot has to be tied exactly as recommended, or bears can get into it.
But...check with the USFS and the Parks for their regulations. The Ursack is still not legal in SEKI and Yosemite.
Hmmm...if I'm not mistaken the Ursack is 7.3 oz. and holds the equal of a big canister.
wbtravis... I have always wondered about the Ursack.
Are there any USFS Districts or NPS authorities that recognized it as "kosher."
Also this may be silly, but how do they stand up to Marmots? In the last 6 years I've spent in the High Sierra I've been given more trouble from Marmots than bear (I've never even seen a bear in Whitney Portal or the Backcountry [including the JMT]).
I saw the INF forest order last year, which what has been for the last 6 years. Anything manufactured express purpose of keeping food safe from bears.
I checked in the latter part of 2013 for the order and the link to it was gone. However, I have quoted it here...word for word in the past.
Hmmm...if I'm not mistaken the Ursack is 7.3 oz. and holds the equal of a big canister.
My nylon garbage bags are even lighter and hold even more.
My guess is your nylon garbage bag is either LLDPE, LDPE or HDPE, not nylon. I'm also going to make an assumption it was not manufactured to keep food safe from bears, thus will not comply with the INF order.
All canisters fail. They fail primarily because of the user.
I have used Garcia, Bear Vault, Bearikade and Ursack products. I have never had a failure with any of them. The only time I have lost food is because I failed to protect it.
I use these products the way the manufacturer says they should be used.
If you have any questions about Ursack products, just email Tom Cohen he has always responded to any inquiry I have made.
My nylon garbage bags are even lighter and hold even more.
My guess is your nylon garbage bag is either LLDPE, LDPE or HDPE, not nylon. I'm also going to make an assumption it was not manufactured to keep food safe from bears, thus will not comply with the INF order.
I received an email from a friend asking the questions below. I know people here are better at helping out with container info than I, so maybe y'all can share your knowledge.
Quote:
I’m planning a 5-day backpack over Shepherd Pass this summer.
My question is about bear-resistant storage. I have an ancient Garcia that weighs a ton and doesn’t hold enough food for 5 days. (I eat a lot.) The BearVault BV500 is an obvious candidate. Do you have any better ideas? Is the Ursack even legal (in Seki)?
My nylon garbage bags are even lighter and hold even more.
My guess is your nylon garbage bag is either LLDPE, LDPE or HDPE, not nylon. I'm also going to make an assumption it was not manufactured to keep food safe from bears, thus will not comply with the INF order.
I also own an Ursack. Here is an extra verse that I wrote about the Ursack way back when. (When I originally posted the poem on a JMT group, the same love-hate dialogue about Ursack ensued, which prompted me to write this verse at the time).
I was thrilled to find the Ursack So light and easy to compress But now I realize a big bear whack Could leave you with a great big mess. You have to tie the hole right Or a bear claw will do its damage Make it really really tight Or you'll be listening to ursine rampage.
Here's an update from the Ursack website on their battle getting approval from the Interagency Grizzly Bear Center. It's been going on for years. Now they want a retest with another Grizzly going after an Ursack lying on the ground. It's supposed to be tied to a rock or tree. Who knows, maybe the Grizzly will have a bad day. Hope for the best if you like Ursacks.
March 6, 2014
The Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee (IGBC) wants to re-test the Ursack S29 AllWhite. We expect the test to occur in early April 2014 and that an official IGBC decision will be made promptly thereafter. The re-test is necessary because of the "ambiguous" results of the May 30, 2013 tests (see earlier posts below for details). The new test will be of a single Ursack placed on the ground with no aluminum liner. If it survives 60 minutes of Grizzly attacks per the IGBC test protocol (to be finalized and posted soon), then it will receive IGBC certification. Please note that even IGBC certification is no guarantee that every wilderness area in the U.S. will approve Ursack.
I received an email from a friend asking the questions below. I know people here are better at helping out with container info than I, so maybe y'all can share your knowledge.
Quote:
I’m planning a 5-day backpack over Shepherd Pass this summer.
My question is about bear-resistant storage. I have an ancient Garcia that weighs a ton and doesn’t hold enough food for 5 days. (I eat a lot.) The BearVault BV500 is an obvious candidate. Do you have any better ideas? Is the Ursack even legal (in Seki)?
Thanks everyone for the help!
The BearVault is both a reasonable choice, and a popular one. There are other choices, but they involve more weight, more money, or questionable legality.
That video is the clever black bear at the Folsom Zoo, Fisher. She's not good enough anymore, apparently. We're talking Grizzly testing at West Yellowstone because you never know when a Grizzly might sneak into California and chew on your Ursack lying on the ground. There's one on the state flag, so I guess it could happen.
How about that graveyard of failed trash cans and boxes.
The video of Folsom Fisher chewing on that Ursack is enough to convince me that it also needs to come with a couple of bear bells. I'd need something to wake me in the night so I could yell and throw rocks at the bear.
Here are two pictures from the bear habitat in West Yellowstone last summer. They were the only bears we saw during our vacation. We were there at feeding time, and the caretakers sequestered all the animals, and then hid the food in all sorts of nooks and crannies. Then the bears (and a lot of ravens, too) would go hunting and eating.
I sure don't think an Ursack test with it NOT being fastened to a tree or other object is a fair test. Hoping for the best, anyway.
The video of Folsom Fisher chewing on that Ursack is enough to convince me that it also needs to come with a couple of bear bells. I'd need something to wake me in the night so I could yell and throw rocks at the bear.
Here are two pictures from the bear habitat in West Yellowstone last summer. They were the only bears we saw during our vacation. We were there at feeding time, and the caretakers sequestered all the animals, and then hid the food in all sorts of nooks and crannies. Then the bears (and a lot of ravens, too) would go hunting and eating.
I sure don't think an Ursack test with it NOT being fastened to a tree or other object is a fair test. Hoping for the best, anyway.
I think the shaggy one is the grizzly.
I can't imagine old Shaggy walking around my tent at night, Ursack or no Ursack!!
“Any thoughts of guilt, any feelings of regret, had faded. The desert had baked them out.” - Stephen King
Personal opinion, of course, but I think it is a fair test because it takes account of user error. If you have a product, maybe it works when used perfectly and maybe it doesn't, but you know that a lot of users are not going to use it correctly, do you test it under perfect conditions? Ursack presumably has done what it can to try to teach folks how to use it properly, and yet a lot of folks don't (or can't) tie the knot properly; perhaps fail to use a liner when they should; and don't anchor it properly. Until or unless Ursack can get its product to the point that it is consistently used properly in the field, seems to me that you have to test in a way that accounts for the numerous errors that people make.
Using a bear canister/sack is, after all, not JUST about protecting food. It is also about saving bears. A fed bear, as they say, is a dead bear. I, personally, like the fact that the wild is still wild, and that I sometimes see (very shy) black bears scurrying way when hiking the Sierra. The stories of Yosemite euthanizing repeat offender bears, who have successfully obtained human food and keep coning back for more, are positively chilling. So I support the need to approve only those bear canister/systems that work consistently in the field rather than just for the few. If/when Ursack engineers its bag to account better for user error, that's when they should get approval, and not before. IMHO.
Good point about user error, and making it a conservative test is appropriate, but the product is not intended to be used in that manner. Likewise, people forget to close the lid and engage both clicks on the BearVault or to use a coin to secure a Garcia canister. To be consistent, they should they test those products and the Bearicade with the lid semi-locked assuming user error. Maybe they do, but I doubt they would pass. It would be like testing seat beats that aren't fully latched. Nothing is foolproof because there's always a bigger fool around the corner. The question is, how much should the rest of us suffer to accommodate them?
The history on this is pretty clear, it's taking lawsuits to get a fair judgment on the Ursack. They keep delaying and delaying and changing the rules. They don't even have a test protocol defined yet for this upcoming test.
If these product don't work as intended, we need to know and either improve them or ban them. But do they have to work as unintended as well? If so, then treat them all the same way.
I received an email from a friend asking the questions below. I know people here are better at helping out with container info than I, so maybe y'all can share your knowledge.
Quote:
I’m planning a 5-day backpack over Shepherd Pass this summer.
My question is about bear-resistant storage. I have an ancient Garcia that weighs a ton and doesn’t hold enough food for 5 days. (I eat a lot.) The BearVault BV500 is an obvious candidate. Do you have any better ideas? Is the Ursack even legal (in Seki)?
Thanks everyone for the help!
The BearVault is both a reasonable choice, and a popular one. There are other choices, but they involve more weight, more money, or questionable legality.
Let's answer the question concerning legality in the Inyo National Forest..."The Inyo National Forest requires proper food storage in all wilderness areas. In some places, visitors must use bear bear-resistant containers, designed specifically to protect food from bears. In all other areas within designated wilderness, visitors are required to counter-balance their food, or store it in bear-resistant containers." Here's the link thingy... http://tinyurl.com/omwtm2t
If I'm not mistaken, Ursack are designed specially to protect food from bears.
Let's talk Bear Vault, some are ok everywhere and others are not legal in Rae Lakes because the bears are smarter there than anywhere else in the Sierra. Also, I do remember a seasonal ranger telling me to put my bright new shinny Bear Vault in bear box at Kearsarge Lakes a while ago because 7 had failed.
Again, all canister fail and the failure usually involves the two legged owner of the canister.
I agree that tests should be fair. But I think that the Ursack is far more prone to user error or misuse than a Garcia or a Bearikade, and that this may properly be a factor in designing a testing protocol.
For example, a lot of folks will admit to the fact that tying the knot tight enough to prevent leaving an opening for an inquisitive claw is pretty tough. And many folks don't bother with a liner, whether of the smell-depressing kind or the structure-bolstering kind. So I think it is reasonable to design the test around the specific challenges posed by and vulnerabilities of the product you are testing. IMHO, the Ursack, wonderful as it is (and I do use mine in Desolation Wilderness, among other places, where it is legal), is not similarly situated to the Garcia and Bearikade, and there is a reasonable basis for testing it based on its particular engineering and vulnerabilities.
I didn't list the Bear Vault because it raises an interesting issue (I have one of those too). Word is that it's not just that rogue bear on the East Coast that has figured out to break into it (and then taught all her rogue bear friends), but that at least one bear some where around our parts, near Onion Valley/Kearsarge Pass, that has as well. The Bear Vault is a great product -- wide mouth, see-through, no tool need to open it, reasonably lightweight, well-priced compared to the Bearikade, if hard to open -- but we'll have to see how/whether it maintains its approval. I understand it already was modified a while back, and that may not be enough for some bears.
Last edited by Akichow; 03/28/1407:10 PM. Reason: Oops, sorry, missed wbtravis's point about the Bear Vault when I was responding to the other message. Sounds like the word I heard has legs about the smart bear(s) out of Kearsarge Pass...
I guess I'm not as smart as the average bear, Boo Boo. I have a heck of a time opening my Bear Vault. I'd give up half the time if I wasn't so darn hungry.
If human error is considered for one product, then human error should be part of the test protocol for all competing products. How to do that fairly is a tough question. That's my $0.02, keep the change and good luck Ursack. Someone should stuff that Grizzly full of hot dogs just before the test. Can you actually fill up a Grizzly?
I guess I'm not as smart as the average bear, Boo Boo. I have a heck of a time opening my Bear Vault. I'd give up half the time if I wasn't so darn hungry.
Bear Vault should be renamed "Hiker Vault" because it successfully kept me from raiding a buddy's M&M stash.
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Bee, those are obsolete Ursack models. The latest is the S29 All White weighing 7.3 ounces. Not that it matters. I'm betting on the Grizzly if it's left on the ground where the knot is vulnerable. The fabric will be fine. This design needs the knot protected by tying off to a tree or rock.
I guess I'm not as smart as the average bear, Boo Boo. I have a heck of a time opening my Bear Vault. I'd give up half the time if I wasn't so darn hungry.
If human error is considered for one product, then human error should be part of the test protocol for all competing products. How to do that fairly is a tough question. That's my $0.02, keep the change and good luck Ursack. Someone should stuff that Grizzly full of hot dogs just before the test. Can you actually fill up a Grizzly?
That is the reason I got rid of both of my Bear Vaults...solo and multiday...as have most of by backpacking friends.
They were near impossible to open when moisture got into the thread area and froze overnight.