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Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Steve C #37532 06/17/14 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
Of all the places to resupply, Edison Lake (VVR aka Vermillion Valley Resort) makes the least sense.


I have a rare but strong disagreement with Steve on this one. While the distances and costs would seem to dictate against the sense of VVR, actual experience says otherwise. First, Red's is not a substitute for VVR, whereas a stop at VVR can supplant both Red's and MTR. Red's is 2 or three days farther from the half way point, and not an alternative to MTR, which VVR is. Second, the 20 bucks ferry fee is less than the extra cost (65 vs 35) of sending a resup to MTR alone. Third, I wasted more time at MTR than I might have spent at VVR if I hadn't decided to take a zero day at VVR. I got to the Mono Creek bridge late in the day, and could have walked in to VVR by 8 or so and been back at the trailhead, having taken care of business, including laundry and shower, which you cant get at MTR, to the Bear Creek cutoff by 730 the next morning, with no down time. At MTR I got in about 430, so not time to resup then, since you have to be off the property by 5 and cant get back in till 8 the next morning. So at MTR, I directly lost a late afternoon and early morning, about half a day hiking time, and indirectly another half a day due to not being able to get far enough up Evo to cross Muir in good weather the next day.

My plan next time would be skip TM, a pit stop at Red's, but no overnight, in-n-out overnight and major resup at VVR, skip MTR unless timing is good for a mid-day in-n-out to top up on delectables from the hiker boxes. People seem to leave the tastiest stuff at MTR: jerky, summer sausage, nuts etc.


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Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Harvey Lankford #37533 06/17/14 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Harvey Lankford
ok, let's take it to the nth degree of loading and minimalism.

I wonder what a Bear Vault full of Tang would weigh?


I once did the math to see how many calories I could fit into my Bearikade Expedition, and filling it with olive oil to the top seemed to be the highest I could do - 96,000 calories. That'll get you down the trail a few miles, although your body really isn't a diesel engine...

I've seen a PCT hiker one year who had a bear can almost completely full of couscous, just a small bottle of oil and some seasoning, rest he said would be supplemented by begging other hikers for some treats or hiker barrels.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
saltydog #37535 06/17/14 09:45 AM
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Our plan this summer (28 or 29 days on trail), not as fast moving as usual with more time for side trips and slower cross country routes:


  • First stop Tuolumne Meadows (in bear locker at ranger station in parking lot where our car will be left for the month)
  • Second package at Reds Meadows (hand deliver before hike with an overnight acclimation stay at Reds Campground)
  • Third resupply at VVR (no ferry, we hike in over Goodale, out over Bear Crossing or Ridge)
  • Fourth stop - MTR, no package mailed, just hiker barrel, recharge batteries, move on quickly. Was planning to hike food in, but don't really need it
  • Fifth resupply - Parcher's Resort (because we are on the High Route through Dusy Basin anyway, it won't be so far off the trail)
  • Sixth resupply - Mt. Williamson Motel deal at Kearsarge, pickup, overnight, return next morning.



We should never have more than 7 days of food on us, with VVR to Parchers and Parchers to Kearsarge being the longest legs. we have one Expedition and one regular Bearikade, so plenty of room for even less than ideal food (e.g. Mountain House Chili Mac, which is more air than chili until you add water)

I am also using one of the later resupplies to add camera gear to my pack late in the hike. That avoids the common first day weight shock, that inevitably leads to leaving most of the lenses and./or tripod I planned on bringing in the car before walking out. When we get to the resupply with the extra camera gear, I will have lost the equivalent weight off my body anyway.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Fishmonger #37542 06/17/14 11:01 AM
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I'm thinking about getting into backpacking, and was talking with someone at work who has experience. She recommended couscous as well for energy, taste, and low fuel cost to cook compared with other starches. She also likes dehydrating pasta sauce, says it rehydrates real well from a fruit leather condition. smile

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
SierraNevada #37543 06/17/14 11:23 AM
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I'm not going to claim scientific precision on my weights, it was me on scales without bear vault and me on scales with bear vault, but it tallied with my estimate of the amount of stuff I'd put into it. It was the original smooth sided 2005 model bear vault (which was very slightly easier to pack than the modern ones with bumps and lips) but I think the same size. If the food is much already (powdered stuff or trail mix) then mushing doesn't do a lot of damage. The tortillas tended to fall apart at the edges a bit and the snickers needed eaten from the wrapper, but that was about all that I can remember being an issue.

For my current planned trip I'm weighing much more accurately since I'm preparing everything at home, rather than at a trail angel's house on the PCT, and the ability to get 7+kg into the bear vault gives me no reason to doubt my previous measurements. Last time I followed most of tom's instructions to the letter - repackaging, mushing etc. Once I get to the 'mushing' stage I'll happily post a picture of the packed bear vault and a list of the contents - my latest expectation is I'll get about 8kg in, hampered by the fact that my son doesn't like instant mash or any other powdered food.

Edited to add - couscous is great, but instant mash I think is still the best because you can add a lot of olive oil before it gets too gunky. Pasta and couscous get oily and unpleasant for me.

Last edited by britonwhit(ney); 06/17/14 11:25 AM.
Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Steve C #37545 06/17/14 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C


As for mailing yourself supplies, the U.S. Postal Service has flat rate boxes you can mail from anywhere in the U.S. to anywhere in the U.S. 12x12x6 (Large Box) is $16.


It depends if we have the time to mail it to ourselves after we cross the border or if we have to do it while still in Canada - one of those buckets would cost, I'm guessing, $100 from here. So that would be $200 for the buckets. This is why we want to just resupply once - it will cost like $400 just for the buckets let alone the charge to hold them.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
saltydog #37547 06/17/14 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: saltydog
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Of all the places to resupply, Edison Lake (VVR aka Vermillion Valley Resort) makes the least sense.


I have a rare but strong disagreement with Steve on this one. While the distances and costs would seem to dictate against the sense of VVR, actual experience says otherwise. First, Red's is not a substitute for VVR, whereas a stop at VVR can supplant both Red's and MTR. Red's is 2 or three days farther from the half way point, and not an alternative to MTR, which VVR is. Second, the 20 bucks ferry fee is less than the extra cost (65 vs 35) of sending a resup to MTR alone.

My plan next time would be skip TM, a pit stop at Red's, but no overnight, in-n-out overnight and major resup at VVR, skip MTR unless timing is good for a mid-day in-n-out to top up on delectables from the hiker boxes. People seem to leave the tastiest stuff at MTR: jerky, summer sausage, nuts etc.


This is exactly our thinking: we will do a quick stop at Red's and MTR to stock up a bit but not mail boxes there.

Is it pretty safe to assume that there will be lots of extra hiker barrels at each of the stops? Do most of you plan to resupply from these barrels and thus pack less with this in mind?

Thanks for all the ideas about food: please keep them coming! I have done 7-day backpack trips but never this long - so haven't had to worry too much about weight/space before. We usually eat like royalty because I prepare all my own food but I guess this time we will have to change our style!

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
zorse #37549 06/17/14 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: zorse
It depends if we have the time to mail it to ourselves after we cross the border or if we have to do it while still in Canada - one of those buckets would cost, I'm guessing, $100 from here. So that would be $200 for the buckets. This is why we want to just resupply once - it will cost like $400 just for the buckets let alone the charge to hold them.


Dude! You can stop in at any USPS Post Office and mail it. It would take just a few minutes! There is one in every town, so you will pass by dozens on your way south.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
zorse #37550 06/17/14 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: zorse
Is it pretty safe to assume that there will be lots of extra hiker barrels at each of the stops? Do most of you plan to resupply from these barrels and thus pack less with this in mind?


you said August? They will have more food in the hiker barrels than they will know what to do with. And anything they don't have to transport out for disposal is less work for them.

In early season, when the hungry PCT crowd comes through, they limit the amount you can grab, but in July and later, we pretty much were looking at entire resupplies in 5 to 6 barrels full of things people didn't want. They even sort it for you, from non-food (nice batteries, etc) to factory packed to repackaged food. If you're not afraid to eat somebody's home brew granola mix, you can fill up several bear cans. The factory wrapped stuff moves pretty quickly, but every time we were there in recent years, there was way more than we would have wanted to add to our packs.

Reds and VVR have much smaller hiker barrels, because, well, they have a store to sell you the same or similar stuff.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Fishmonger #37556 06/17/14 05:27 PM
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The more food you carry, the slower you go, the longer it takes to resupply, the more food you need to carry, the slower you go, the longer it takes, the more food you need to carry...

Vacation time $Priceless
Gear $1,500
Travel from Canada $500
Resupply savings $100?

Whatever you decide, consider the physics and accounting. Do your homework and make good choices. It will work out pretty much any way you do it, but some ways are easier than others.

Have a great trip! Post TR and let us know how it went.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Steve C #37569 06/17/14 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C


Dude! You can stop in at any USPS Post Office and mail it. It would take just a few minutes! There is one in every town, so you will pass by dozens on your way south.


I meant if there would be enough time between mailing it and when we need to pick it up at the supply post. Sounds like they suggest mailing it 2 weeks before you intend to pick it up. If we resupplied early on in the trip we wouldn't have a chance to mail it out 2 weeks ahead of time.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
zorse #37578 06/17/14 11:45 PM
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Ok, now I understand.

I've shipped in those flat-rate "priority mail" boxes, and they make it across the country in just a few days. The odd-size paid-by-the-pound boxes probably get shipped more slowly.

Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Steve C #37597 06/18/14 01:07 PM
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It is worth WHATEVER it costs to mail it and arrive on time so as not carry it.

It will help to imagine what it is like to climb steep sandhills while encumbered by a sack of potatoes on your back and a brick strapped to each ankle.
Norman Croucher, Legless But Smiling, page 468


(edited to add quote. This double amputee walked from John O'Groats to Lands End, as well as Himalayan climbs.

Last edited by Harvey Lankford; 06/18/14 01:12 PM.
Re: JMT - Food Logistics
Fishmonger #37608 06/18/14 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fishmonger
Originally Posted By: zorse
Is it pretty safe to assume that there will be lots of extra hiker barrels at each of the stops? Do most of you plan to resupply from these barrels and thus pack less with this in mind?


you said August? They will have more food in the hiker barrels than they will know what to do with. And anything they don't have to transport out for disposal is less work for them.

In early season, when the hungry PCT crowd comes through, they limit the amount you can grab, but in July and later, we pretty much were looking at entire resupplies in 5 to 6 barrels full of things people didn't want. They even sort it for you, from non-food (nice batteries, etc) to factory packed to repackaged food. If you're not afraid to eat somebody's home brew granola mix, you can fill up several bear cans. The factory wrapped stuff moves pretty quickly, but every time we were there in recent years, there was way more than we would have wanted to add to our packs.

Reds and VVR have much smaller hiker barrels, because, well, they have a store to sell you the same or similar stuff.


MTR has so much stuff they set up about 8 different barrels with different categories, but Red's and VVR, not so much. In August you could show up at MTR empty and fill your pack, it would not be noticed. I was offered so much choice stuff just sitting at the table that I only had to rummage for some really obscure stuff, like powdered whole milk and electrolyte, and I left a bunch of what I had shipped there. Red's and VVR have only one skimpy barrel each, but they both have pretty good stores and great restos.


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