Mt Whitney Webcam
Mt Williamson Webcam
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 219 guests, and 8 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Busted by California State Park Policeman
#38314 07/05/14 08:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 464
Likes: 1
R
OP Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 464
Likes: 1
Wednesday five friends and myself did a shuttle hike of the Rubicon Trail along Lake Tahoe. We left one vehicle in D L Bliss State Park and rode in two vehicles to Emerald Bay where we started our hike. Our cars contained our camping gear and we would access our campsites in Bliss park at 2 PM. After our hike we piled six people into my wife's Highlander - three in the back seat, myself driving, and a couple riding together on the front passenger seat, the wife sitting on the husband's lap (the back section was filled with hiking and camping gear.)Since we were so crowded instead of going all the way to Emerald Bay we planned to drive the short distance to our campsites and drop off some of the people and gear. We were soon stopped by a California State Park Patrolman. His lights were flashing so I pulled over thinking he would drive right by me. Nope, he wrote the lady riding on the lap a ticket for being unsecured and very clearly informed me that I could have been cited for allowing her to ride there. Her husband pleaded for just a warning and I assured the patrolman that the end result would be the same: we left two passengers there by the road, I dropped off some gear and the rest of the passengers at our campsites, then returned to take the two drivers to their cars at Emerald Bay. The patrolman also warned us that any infractions at our campsites would result in our being ejected from the park. To put it mildly this guy was very unpleasant. I work in the service industry in Reno and we value our guests and do our best to create good will. It's good for business and allows guests as well as employees to enjoy the interactions.

We were/are all upset. I'm considering letters to the editor and complaints. I've sent a couple of emails inquiring where to complain. And I guess the lady can go to Court and ask for lenience. Our group are certainly not trouble makers. All are in our 50's and 60's except the lady who got the ticket who is in her 30's. We are hiking enthusiasts who mainly camped that night so we could get an early start on our hike up Mt Tallac the next morning without driving 90 minutes from Reno. Any thoughts? Or is it just "You broke the law, got caught, deal with it."

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38315 07/05/14 08:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,261
Bee Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,261
Hmmmm...building up to thee worst weekend in that area: 4th of July, lots of overtime, 10X the amount of tourists, lots of drinking....I would say yes, he was enforcing the letter of the law, but his leniency & tolerance were probably already at an all time low.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38317 07/05/14 11:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,507
Likes: 103
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,507
Likes: 103
Frank, you're lucky you didn't get leg cramps and need to get out of the car. A guy in Grand Canyon did that last year and was arrested.

The video has been removed from YouTube, but LiveLeak carries it. It's ugly -- I can hardly stand to even watch the video.

It takes a certain type of individual to do stuff like that. Not the finest characters in the world if you ask me.
For more commentary, Google: Grand Canyon driver arrest cramps

I am sorry it happened to you. Next time, pile the hiking/camping gear in everyone's laps, and the unbelted person should keep a low profile, and NOT sit in front.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38325 07/06/14 11:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,572
Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,572
Its both, you broke the law, deal with that part of it, and the cop is a jerk, and you are entitled to deal with that, too. The law needs to be enforced but there is right way and a wrong way. You are entitled to complain about the guy's attitude and threats, and I would.

As for the GC incident: I think about 99 percent of the people in the NPS are great, but there are definitely some aholes among the law enforcement rangers. A couple of years ago in Cape Cod National Seashore, a couple of these geniuses were patrolling a beach in plainclothes, but making themselves pretty obvious. A beachgoer was arrested for warning someone against nude bathing, because the beach was being patrolled. Essentially the same information was posted on a Park Service sign at the entrance to the beach. The guy was charged with "interfering" with law enforcement. Its about getting busts and writing for guys that can't get real cop jobs.


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
Steve C #38326 07/06/14 11:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
The guy probably doesn't get to use those flashing lights very often for an actual traffic stop. You "made his day."

The bears have been getting out of control at DL Bliss in recent years. IMHO, they really need to focus on working the campground - educating people, citing gross violators, and hazing the bears out of there. But to use those flashing lights, now that's a lot more fun!

At least it's a reasonable distance to court for you, Reno. Good luck. The PR route will probably backfire on you from diehard law-and-order black-and-white commentators.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38328 07/06/14 12:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 80
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 80
first you say this:
Originally Posted By: RenoFrank
Nope, he wrote the lady riding on the lap a ticket for being unsecured and very clearly informed me that I could have been cited for allowing her to ride there.
emphasis mine.

and then you say this.
Originally Posted By: RenoFrank
I work in the service industry in Reno and we value our guests and do our best to create good will. It's good for business and allows guests as well as employees to enjoy the interactions.

seems to me he could have hit you harder, but chose not to.

seems somewhat ungrateful to me.

nobody likes getting caught doing what they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
smithb #38329 07/06/14 12:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 252
G
Offline
G
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 252
I go back and forth on issues like these. On the one hand, you were doing something you shouldn't have been. On the other hand, the writing of a citation isn't going to do anything other than make the people he works for some money, which is the point behind law enforcement these days anyway.


One day I'd like to hike the entire John Muir Trail and not leave a single footprint. -Randy Morgenson
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38333 07/06/14 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
K
Ken Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 742
Frank, I'm with those who say that you didn't get cited, so what is your complaint?

Was the woman wearing a seat belt? No.

I've been cited for that.
Why should she get off?

It appears that your gripe is that you guys begged for a warning, and didn't get your way.

You were locals, you knew the law, you knew the area. Lotsa windy roads. Someone sitting unsecured on top of another is very subject to sliding around, potentially into you, definitely blocking your view of the rearview mirror.

I think you got off easy.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
Ken #38334 07/06/14 02:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,251
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,251
Likes: 1
You got very off easy: In Queensland the fine is now $330, considering changing to $660.


Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
SierraNevada #38340 07/06/14 08:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 464
Likes: 1
R
OP Offline
R
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 464
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
The PR route will probably backfire on you from diehard law-and-order black-and-white commentators.


Yes, it seems you're right. My experience in the service industry is not to unconditionally gung ho enforce any and all infractions. To tactfully find common ground and a solution that benefits all can be the result of level headed mutually respectful discussion. I like to think that most outdoor hikers and campers share a sense of camaraderie. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised by these unyielding hard asses.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38343 07/06/14 09:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,507
Likes: 103
S
Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,507
Likes: 103
The only traffic infraction I was ever able to get out of was when I was ticketed for making a U-turn in front of the school the first week of my daughter's Kindergarten. All the years, I had never noticed the No-U-Turn signs.

Made the turn, cop rolled up on his cycle. While writing the ticket, my 4-year-old is dancing around saying "Daddy, what's the matter?" In the process, she tripped and fell off the curb ...right into the mud.

Cop continues to write the ticket. I signed it, and then had to return home with little girl, find clean clothes, and take her back to school late.

I told that story to the judge with a smile on my face, and finished with, "Don't you think, just once in a while, that a warning would be sufficient?"

It worked.

Good luck, Frank. Your passenger isn't four, and she didn't fall into the mud. wink

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
Steve C #38345 07/06/14 10:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,261
Bee Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,261
There is another aspect to this 'infraction' that has not been discussed: the visual results of accidents involving just that one time someone did not wear a seatbelt.

Unforgettable

Anyone in the traffic enforcement, emergency room, or post-mortum backroom has had their psyche shaken to the core by one of these scenes.

I know I have -- more than once (the only thing I dreaded more than a suicide was a seatbeltless victim catapulted through a windshield)

Perhaps your ticketing cop has seen his fair share.


The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
RenoFrank #38349 07/07/14 08:13 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 51
2
Offline
2
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 51
Consider yourself fortunate. I am from Ca with Ca plates on my car. I drive through Oregon 3 times per year to visit my mom in Idaho. Over the past 6 years that I have been making this trip, I have been pulled iver 3 times by Oregon state police:once for going "50ish" in a 55 zone and obstructing traffic (the cop was the only car behind me), once for speeding 58 in a 55 zone (semis were passing me of course), and once for violating the dew line (who knew that's what they called the stripe on the outside of the road?) when I pulled over to let a cop by. I got a little snippy with the cop who pulled me over for speeding and he admitted to what I already knew. He pulled me over based on my plates and car. I fit a profile of a drug mule evidently. So, look at it this way at least you weren't being pulled over to simply be harrassed. You were in violation of a well known part of the vehicle code.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
Bee #38371 07/07/14 04:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,572
Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,572
Bee, with all respect, I have seen enough police work (ex fire/EMT) to be able to recognize a cop who is sincerely concerned for safety and one who is enjoying being a jerk. The sincerely concerned one will say something like: I'm gonna have to cite someone in this situation, so I'm gonna let you go with just a ticket for the lady, cause that way its not a moving violation, but please folks, I don't want anyone in my park to end up like like some I have seen doing this, OK? The one who is enjoying being a jerk will say something like but if I catch you drinking or violating the rules in that campsite or looking at the squirrels funny, you are gone from my park.


Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
SierraNevada #38410 07/08/14 08:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
W
Offline
W
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
The guy probably doesn't get to use those flashing lights very often for an actual traffic stop. You "made his day."

The bears have been getting out of control at DL Bliss in recent years. IMHO, they really need to focus on working the campground - educating people, citing gross violators, and hazing the bears out of there. But to use those flashing lights, now that's a lot more fun!

At least it's a reasonable distance to court for you, Reno. Good luck. The PR route will probably backfire on you from diehard law-and-order black-and-white commentators.


As anyone who has volunteered to do trail patrols and carries a radio will tell you, the forest/park LE has more than enough opportunities to flash their lights.

If you break the law, which Reno Frank and his passenger did, you should be prepared to pay for the mistake. The only thing you can do is say yes sir and no sir and hope to end up with a warning. Now, all Reno Frank's passenger can hope for is the officer doesn't show up in court.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
wbtravis #38422 07/08/14 01:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Originally Posted By: wbtravis
As anyone who has volunteered to do trail patrols and carries a radio will tell you, the forest/park LE has more than enough opportunities to flash their lights.

State Park Rangers don't get many opportunities to pull people over with the flashing lights for traffic stops. There's only a few miles of state park roads in any of those campgrounds - DL Bliss, Emerald Bay or Sugar Pine Point and the speed limit is about 15 mph. Patrolling state HW 89 is getting into CHP territory, city cops and sheriff's respect that boundary. So no, state park Rangers don't get to hit the "rollers" very often for traffic stops. I'd bet it was a big thrill for this Robo-cop, even if it was just a seat belt violation on a quick shuttle ride.

Salty put it well - the Ranger's attitude comes through even in writing, and it doesn't seem to be about their safety. A reasonable judge can see through this a mile away, and can probably remember the days before seat belts. It will be interesting if Reno's friend pursues it in court, but these things usually aren't worth the effort.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
SierraNevada #38467 07/09/14 08:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
W
Offline
W
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,253
Condescending nonsense...this and the previous post.

These people take an enormous amount of abuse and are at risk whenever they stop people. All we have heard is one side of this story. So what if they flash their lights. How exactly are they supposed to get someone to pull over? Reno Frank broke the law and the officer was kind enough to let him go with a warning, for which he was not grateful.

Again, listen to the radio traffic some weekend in a national forest, national park or state park and get back to me.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
wbtravis #38481 07/09/14 03:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
It's simple, Reno got pulled over by Barney Fife (Don Knots) with no Andy Griffith to explain the big picture to him. Any of us can choose to be a professional, or a professional jerk at our job.


Last edited by SierraNevada; 07/09/14 03:17 PM.
Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
SierraNevada #38484 07/09/14 04:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 6
H
Offline
H
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 6
WB and SN , you be nice to each other

both parties are guilty. The perp was wrong, and expected special treatment. The cop was a hotdog.

I know. I have had several car cops stop me over the years and just issued warnings. But once, I was pulled by the boat police. Hit the gas 20 feet from a Resume Speed sign exiting the marina and was chased down and ticketed. I was technically wrong, but good grief. Made the mistake of telling the boat cop it was harassment. You can believe that when I went to court to contest the ticket, that the judge heard about that.

Re: Busted by California State Park Policeman
Harvey Lankford #38489 07/09/14 07:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,158
Harvey, there's no debate about guilt. Reno freely admits it. The debate is about appropriate discretionary law enforcement for a violation of the vehicle code. The lady sitting on her husband's lap presented ZERO danger to society on this 5 minute shuttle ride.

Our court system is overwhelmed with drug dealers, robbers, burglars, drunk drivers, and violent offenders. Is it a good use of limited law enforcement resources for a State Park Ranger to ruin peoples' vacations over a shuttle ride without a seat belt? Of course he has the authority to write 2 citations and threaten to kick them out of the park, but he does not have an obligation to do that. This citation is entirely discretionary. It provides no public safety benefit- it's purely punitive.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4
(Release build 20200307)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.039s Queries: 54 (0.032s) Memory: 0.6856 MB (Peak: 0.8246 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 07:42:40 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS