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#38655 - 07/14/14 08:53 PM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
To paraphrase Justin Timberlake, I think it is time to bring sexy back.

So here's my question, science geeks. Not stove-related.

I bought a backup power supply for my iPhone (Goal Zero Switch 8) for use on thru hikes. No solar charger needed because that would be overkill the way I use my iPhone on the trail, which is minimally (i.e., just for music at night).

Am I better off waiting for the iPhone to drop to, say, 10%, over the course of several days, before I use the Goal Zero to recharge it? Or just recharging the iPhone off the Goal Zero at the end of each day, however much charge has been expended? How, in otherwise, should I maximize the amount of charging time that I can get from the backup battery?

Thanks for any thoughts. Apologies for the hijack. (This thread maybe could use a little hijack.)


Edited by Akichow (07/14/14 08:53 PM)

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#38656 - 07/14/14 09:01 PM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
A reply from the Phone Geek (he works for ATT Wireless)


Since the iPhone uses a lithium battery, you need not wait to charge it. I would just charge it each night; one it is charged, yhou are not discharging the backup battery. I would also recommend turning off the phone when not in use. Cell phones are constantly "looking" for service and especially if there is not service, they will use even MORE power. Also, the display is one of the largest users of power -- same for any GPS device: the display is the real power user.
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#38660 - 07/14/14 10:25 PM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: saltydog
The boiling point is a function of pressure, so as the pressure in the vessel goes up so does the boiling point. Boiling point is by definition the point at which vapor pressure equals atmospheric pressure. By definition "the higher above the boiling point in terms of temperature" with respect to a liquid in a canister, is a contradiction in terms. Until the canister fails, of course.
Well, I was thinking of the overall temperature of the system, but whatever. smile

Originally Posted By: saltydog
It should read "the higher the temperature, the greater the vapor pressure".
Precisely, and let's leave it at that.

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#38661 - 07/14/14 10:29 PM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Akichow
To paraphrase Justin Timberlake, I think it is time to bring sexy back.

So here's my question, science geeks. Not stove-related.

I bought a backup power supply for my iPhone (Goal Zero Switch 8) for use on thru hikes. No solar charger needed because that would be overkill the way I use my iPhone on the trail, which is minimally (i.e., just for music at night).

Am I better off waiting for the iPhone to drop to, say, 10%, over the course of several days, before I use the Goal Zero to recharge it? Or just recharging the iPhone off the Goal Zero at the end of each day, however much charge has been expended? How, in otherwise, should I maximize the amount of charging time that I can get from the backup battery?

Thanks for any thoughts. Apologies for the hijack. (This thread maybe could use a little hijack.)
Actually, I could use a little Jack Daniels, but whatever. smile

Bee has it right in her answer: minimize power drain, recharge often. With lithium based batteries, from what I've read, you want to charge them as frequently as possible. In fact, were it reasonable to do so, you'd probably want to do it more often than just in the evening.

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#38663 - 07/14/14 11:20 PM Re: Stoves [Re: hikin_jim]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
Hello.

So I am actually focused more on the capacity of the backup battery than on the iPhone, at the moment.

Will I get more power, over all, from the Goal Zero backup battery to charge my iPhone if I draw from the Goal Zero a little at a time, or if I draw large quantities every few days?

Kind of the mirror image of how I am used to looking at things in the front country.

Jack Daniels. Nice.

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#38665 - 07/15/14 08:00 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
Phone Geek says:

Actually, your power usage (of auxilary power source) is a product of the iPhone; that is why I mentioned all the ways your iPhone uses power (that has to be replaced by the auxilary power source). So...how much power the iPhone uses will determine how much backup power your auxiliary power source will compensate for. Since you mentioned that you were not recharging your backup via solar, then whether you use a little power or all at once adds up to the same end expendedure. You are using the same amount of backup power in either scenario; it makes no difference how you use it. I would concentrate more on power conservation in the iPhone than on how to recharge it (so to less deplete the power source)



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#38667 - 07/15/14 08:21 AM Re: Stoves [Re: hikin_jim]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
OK HJ leaving vapor pressure, but back to stoves: have any thoughts on wood gas? My go-to system (except when I can't resist my Svea) is wood gas stove with Esbit as a back-up (for fire ban areas). Can't beat the fuel/weight/miles.
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#38671 - 07/15/14 09:03 AM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Interesting question inasmuch as I was just testing some wood stoves this past weekend.


What do you want to do? Cook trout? Boil water? Go as light as possible?

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#38672 - 07/15/14 09:20 AM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
Glenn Offline


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: saltydog

Nope: turning up the temperature on the burner does NOT raise the temperature in the pot that is already boiling.


Well, not usually on a stovetop. But for the record, it can happen. It's the old cup-of-superheated-water-in-the-microwave trick. http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave.asp . The water temperature will rise above the boiling point if bubbles are not able to nucleate.

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#38681 - 07/15/14 09:46 AM Re: Stoves [Re: hikin_jim]
Glenn Offline


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Oklahoma
It should read 'the higher the temperature, the greater the vapor pressure'. -SD

Precisely, and let's leave it at that. -HJ

Yes, that's the essence of it! I like that because it gets away from the pan of boiling water on the stove analogy, and the use of the terms 'boil' and 'boiling point' which can conjure up the wrong image. Inside a fuel canister atmospheric pressure is not imposed upon the system, rather, the temperature is imposed on it by the surroundings and the pressure is determined by the corresponding point on the liquid-vapor P-T curve for that substance (propane, butane, mixture, or whatever). Our only interest in atmospheric pressure is that we want the pressure inside the can to be higher than the barometric pressure outside so gas will flow out, the burner will burn, and then we can talk about a pan of boiling water.

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#38682 - 07/15/14 09:49 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
Glenn Offline


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Akichow
To paraphrase Justin Timberlake, I think it is time to bring sexy back.

So here's my question, science geeks. Not stove-related.

I bought a backup power supply for my iPhone (Goal Zero Switch 8) for use on thru hikes. No solar charger needed because that would be overkill the way I use my iPhone on the trail, which is minimally (i.e., just for music at night).

Am I better off waiting for the iPhone to drop to, say, 10%, over the course of several days, before I use the Goal Zero to recharge it? Or just recharging the iPhone off the Goal Zero at the end of each day, however much charge has been expended? How, in otherwise, should I maximize the amount of charging time that I can get from the backup battery?

Thanks for any thoughts. Apologies for the hijack. (This thread maybe could use a little hijack.)


Re-hijack...

If it's just for music is there a reason for not using an ipod nano instead of an iphone?

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#38684 - 07/15/14 10:15 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Glenn]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
Good point. But no, I use it (minimally but importantly) for a few other things. The backup battery will probably be more than enough. I just recognize that battery technology has changed and the old wisdoms no longer apply.

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#38686 - 07/15/14 10:33 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
Glenn Offline


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Oklahoma
I see.

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#38687 - 07/15/14 10:39 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Akichow]
John Sims Offline


Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 548
Loc: Sunnyvale, California
Hi Akichow,

I use a Morphie case/backup battery with my iPhone. Their instructions suggest only charging the iPhone up to 75%. Their position is that it takes disproportionally more power to get the last 25%. I have not tried to "test" this, but I'm inclined to believe it.

One iPhone power saving option that you may not be aware of:
- You can turn off the cell service, without going into airplane mode. Simply activate the SIM PIN (found under settings>phone>SIM PIN). Then, turn your iPhone off. Now, whenever you turn your phone on, you will need to enter the SIM PIN if you want the phone to work. Simply do not enter the SIM PIN, and the other functions will work, but no cell service or "searching". The default PIN for the SIM card is: 1111 Be cautions with this, you are only allowed three attempts to enter this PIN. I "guess" if you fail, you will need to visit the genius bar.

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#38690 - 07/15/14 10:48 AM Re: Stoves [Re: Glenn]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Glenn
...and then we can talk about a pan of boiling water.
lol. Indeed.

Good points; thank you. Sorry if I confused people with my boiling analogy.

HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#38693 - 07/15/14 12:44 PM Re: Stoves [Re: John Sims]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
Interesting tips!! Thanks!!

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#38695 - 07/15/14 01:21 PM Re: Stoves [Re: hikin_jim]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Originally Posted By: hikin_jim
Interesting question inasmuch as I was just testing some wood stoves this past weekend.


What do you want to do? Cook trout? Boil water? Go as light as possible?

HJ


All 3 of course!

I was thinking more top-lit gasifier. What else did you test?
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#38702 - 07/15/14 03:35 PM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I was mainly testing the two shown at left in this photo.

Left to right they are:
1. Suluk46 TDW
2. Suluk46 CT
3. Emberlit UL
4. Trail Designs Ti-Tri Sidewinder (sized for a 1.3L Evernew pot)

In terms of a top lit stove, the TDW from Suluk46 is as nice as I've seen, but she ain't cheap. Less than three ounces for a double walled, laminar flow wood gassifier stove, though. Gotta like that.


HJ
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Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#38707 - 07/15/14 05:20 PM Re: Stoves [Re: hikin_jim]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1566
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Impressive weight (and price!) on the TDW. Not impressed with the flame color (sooty) or the long slots instead of smaller holes or vertical slits for the secondary air. What did you think of its burn characteristics?
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Wherever you go, there you are.
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#38722 - 07/16/14 12:41 PM Re: Stoves [Re: saltydog]
hikin_jim Offline


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 148
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I'm still evaluating it, but I was impressed. Laminar flow type stoves work really well in my experience, both alcohol and wood type.

The thing that impressed me most was that it lit well under gusty wind conditions. I had a bit of trouble lighting the other stove which is very open in its construction.

I was also pleased that I could control the heat such that I didn't get any scorching while cooking rice even though I was using titanium cookware (a Snow Peak Trek 1400 in this case). The fire box makes a good repository for coals after the fire burns down a bit. I didn't try anything more complex than rice, but I'd be comfortable doing real cooking on this stove.

The pot supports are thin gauge Ti, so there's a bit of flex, but the pot didn't go anywhere, and so I was pleased.

HJ
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