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#40089 - 09/05/14 10:51 PM Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7526
Loc: Fresno, CA
Andrew Bentz hiked the entire PCT this summer in 93 days. Then, just for fun, he started at Whitney Portal and hiked to Yosemite Valley in 3.5 days. He had to be quick, since he had to leave for his first day back at college the day after he got home.

Monday, Aug 25, 11:40 PM at Whitney Portal
Hiking Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, finishing Friday,
Aug 29, 11:00 AM at Happy Isles in Yosemite

Crazy kid! grin

His report is here: john muir trail fkt


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#40090 - 09/05/14 11:19 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Steve C]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
I did not read this specific article, but I heard the interview on NPR.

He ran about half the time + had a fabulous support team that really made it possible for him to carry nothing but water and the very basics. His buddies were there for him if he got into trouble,so there was no chance for his story to be another unprepared ultra-lighter case study.
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#40092 - 09/06/14 12:53 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Bee]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7526
Loc: Fresno, CA
I think that is a different hiker. This kid did it all on his own -- unsupported. His dad dropped him off at Whitney Portal, and then met him in Yosemite Valley.

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#40093 - 09/06/14 08:48 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Steve C]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
What a trip. My two favorite phrases: "Day one, Portal to Mather" and "bear-in-th-woods".

And yes, the supported record fell this year, too, to Leor Pantilat, only 3:24 faster than Bentz. Both amazing deeds, but Bentz's, at less than 3 1/2 hours behind the guy who had that whole team, has got to be considered by far the greater achievement.
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#40094 - 09/06/14 09:05 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Steve C]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
This is one hell of an accomplishment but...

If I'm not mistaken, a hard canister is required for overnight travel in SEKI and Yosemite and at minimum an Ursack in the Inyo. My guess is he traveled through these areas illegally.

If that is the case, should the record count?

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#40096 - 09/06/14 09:23 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
Harvey Lankford Offline


Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 1007
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
Trav,
He did not stay still long enough to count as sleeping overnight.
No harm, no foul.

We know he was traveling lightweight -
no handkerchief, hence his term 'snot rocket'

LOL

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#40098 - 09/06/14 09:31 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Harvey Lankford]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Overnight means overnight. It does not mean just because you are awake the 21 hours a day you are exempted from the requirement. You can't protect your food when you are a sleep those 3 hours.

Again, it was a heck of an accomplishment.

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#40099 - 09/06/14 11:37 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Steve C]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Steve C
I think that is a different hiker. This kid did it all on his own -- unsupported. His dad dropped him off at Whitney Portal, and then met him in Yosemite Valley.


You are correct -- I was thinking about the guy who broke the speed record for the PCT this year (56 or so days)

Anyway, such records don't interest me, so I am not sure what the other guy's name was, etc. I do remember that he mentioned not carrying a bear can, but it may have been because his friends carried the overnight food. Who knows, don't care.
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The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#40100 - 09/06/14 03:48 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Definitely overnight in the wilderness area, say for permit purposes. Actually, he did not travel through any area in Sequoia where a canister is required: they are surprisingly few. He was in and out of the Rae Lakes Loop, the only area in Kings where canisters are required, in a few hours, and in the Whitney Zone for a fraction of the time most dayhikers spend, and they are not required to carry a bear can. In Sierra, you are only required to keep your food away from bears, canisters are only one way to do that. In INyo, only the Whiney Zone and a short stretch from above Tully Hole to Duck Creek require canisters. He definitely did not sleep in the WZ or in that other short stretch in Inyo, so I think he was ok so far. Probably the only time he was on the edge was at a bridge near Tuolumne. DOesn't say exactly what bridge that was, but it may not have been in the wilderness, so just holding on to food may have been ok.

As far as not recognizing the record because he carried no bear can? None of the recent record setters have either. If that makes sense then Ralph Burgess holds the only record, supported and unsupported having gone SoBo in 4.5 days.
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#40101 - 09/07/14 09:21 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: saltydog]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Saltydog,

It does not matter, if you do not sleep in a zone that requires a canister. Travel through and overnight stay in the wilderness are the operative phrases because if something happens to you, you might have to stay overnight in those places. He complained of pain so great that he was contemplating bail out points back through the Inyo.

Yosemite has a hard side and the Inyo has a softside canister requirement, period.

The forest/park land managers could have been asked for a special dispensation. There was nothing in the narrative that stated they were.

It is a great accomplishment but it done by breaking park and forest rules.

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#40102 - 09/07/14 11:16 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Originally Posted By: wbtravis
Saltydog,

It does not matter, if you do not sleep in a zone that requires a canister. Travel through and overnight stay in the wilderness are the operative phrases because if something happens to you, you might have to stay overnight in those places. He complained of pain so great that he was contemplating bail out points back through the Inyo.

Yosemite has a hard side and the Inyo has a softside canister requirement, period.

The forest/park land managers could have been asked for a special dispensation. There was nothing in the narrative that stated they were.

It is a great accomplishment but it done by breaking park and forest rules.


I don't think so. In the Parks, 36 CFR 2.10 specifically exempts food that is being transported, prepared or or consumed from any storage requirement. That's why we can keep our first day's food outside the canister. In the NF, as I noted above, only the WZ and Duck Creek areas require canisters. If your interpretation of the applicable reg were correct -36 CFR 261.58 - then we would not be able to carry the first days food separately, which we all do, and even day hikers in the Whitney Zone would need to carry canisters, which no-one does.
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#40103 - 09/07/14 11:34 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: saltydog]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
....and wouldn't it also mean that the packers who supply the High Sierra Camps would also have to place all the supplies in cannisters??
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

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#40105 - 09/07/14 12:12 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: saltydog]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Day hikers can protect their food. The nature of day hike is to be out of the wilderness before it is time to bed down...or should be. This is not applicable to this trip.

He had an overnight permit for the MMWT...the trip requires a canister and WAG bag...forest interpretation. This mean if he did not have something designed to keep bears from food he was in violation. Again, no one can be certain there are going to meet their schedule...illness or injury.

If you pass through an area with these regs, you have to have a canister. Yosemite and Rae Lakes have canister regs.

There are surely local regs that are involved here, too.

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#40106 - 09/07/14 12:30 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Don't know where you are getting your interpretation: maybe you could provide your source. And note that the "forest interpretation" can be flat wrong, too, as it most certainly is in the case of the WagBag.
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#40107 - 09/07/14 12:42 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: saltydog]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
This is what I have been told by people at the forest service and parks when I ask these type of questions.

It only makes sense. You cannot guarantee where you are going to end up when you are doing a multi-night trip. Therefore, if you pass through a region with canister regs, you are required to have one.

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#40108 - 09/07/14 01:37 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Well, I guess we can reasonably disagree on what makes sense. Lots of rangers will give you conflicting interpretations, that can't all be right. I am just going by what the regs and the forest orders actually say, and I wish more rangers would too. I am sure every ranger in the Whitney district will tell you that you are required to carry a wagbag, despite the fact that there is no reg and no forest order even requiring you to pack out human waste, much less to use a wag bag to do it. And as for making sense, is a day hiker who can spent up to 24 hours in the zone less likely than a through hiker who blasts through it in 3 hours to get delayed overnight?
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#40118 - 09/08/14 12:47 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: saltydog]
Chicagocwright Offline


Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 172
Loc: Alaska
This is interesting to me because I spent more than 24 hours in the Whitney Zone, on a day hike, and obviously no food can. That can't possibly be the most correct interpretation. Folks do midnight hikes of Half Dome all the time, on day hike permits, and bear cans are not required.

And for that matter, folks also do much shorter daytime day hikes and take naps.

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#40122 - 09/08/14 08:57 AM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Chicagocwright]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1251
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
I know this is a dirty word but you are responsible for protecting your food. My guess is if you are napping day hiker and your food is sitting there in a pack out in the open and LE ranger walks by you could be fined. However, the chance of a LE officer walking by are near nill.

Day hiking permits do not exempt you from protecting your food from the four legged residents. Most day hikers are on the move most of the time and finish their trips in 13 to 18 hours. Longer trips are usually because of injury, illness or misjudging there physical requirements of a trip up and down the MMWT. Those who go past 24 hours on a day trip are usually in some sort of trouble and the cavalry will have been called out or will be shortly.

The case here is there were canister requirements...if he did not have one he was in violation of the law.

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#40125 - 09/08/14 12:53 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: wbtravis]
Akichow Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 659
Loc: SF Bay Area
I reviewed the authorities cited by Salty Dog. Based on them, it is not at all clear to me that there were violations. There are a number of unknowns. Did he carry a canister? Did he ask for an exemption? And even if no to the other questions, where did he camp. All relevant under the regs.

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#40126 - 09/08/14 01:28 PM Re: Fastest JMT time: 3.5 days [Re: Akichow]
saltydog Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1553
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Assume he did not carry a canister or ask for an exemption. With the possible exception of the bridge in Yosemite he did not camp or sleep in any area where canisters are required: Just below Mather, Mono Creek below Silver, and some bridge - not clear which one - around the 22 mile mark at Tuolumne. He may have been on thin ice sleeping with food in his pack but by then of course, he had about the amount of food left you might carry in your pockets, so who knows how he had it arranged for the last 2-hour nap.

Anyone want to bust him for that?
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