Canisters seem like such extra baggage to me. That's just me, I guess.
Well, no, actually not. The fuel to container ratio is really bad on canister stoves.
Consider: What does a 100 g Jetboil canister weigh? 100 g.
Wait. Do you mean to tell me that the container weighs as much as the fuel? In other words half of the weight I'm carrying is "dead" weight, i.e. just the wrapper on what I really want?
Yes, that's correct. That's why alcohol is almost always lighter in the end even on longer trips. With alcohol the fuel to container weight ratio is something like 20:1 whereas with the most commonly used canister sizes, it can be as bad as 1:1.
Liquid fueled stoves that use aluminum fuel bottles do better on the fuel to weight ratio, particularly on longer trips where one might bring an entire liter of fuel.
every gear thread seems to descend to the ultralight ounce counting debate these days. sigh.
I stopped long ago caring about the weight of certain gear items I consider essential. A canister stove is an essential item in my pack, period. Canister weight is a fact of life, just like gravity. Never stopped me from reaching my destination, but I still have all my eye brows, don't smell like a gas station, and get a stove going the moment I push a button - 4 minutes later two cups of water are boiling. Life is good.
OK, so I am missing out on all the fun this guy is having:
I've long ago answered all my stove questions and have moved on to the solving more pressing problems of the universe such as discovering the perfect backcountry pillow
I stopped long ago caring about the weight of certain gear items I consider essential. A canister stove is an essential item in my pack, period. Canister weight is a fact of life, just like gravity. Never stopped me from reaching my destination, but I still have all my eye brows, don't smell like a gas station, and get a stove going the moment I push a button - 4 minutes later two cups of water are boiling. Life is good.
Well, hmm. I suppose, but the choice isn't simply one of canister gas vs. white gas. Alcohol and ESBIT both work pretty well (if you have a good set up); they're just not as fast. They (typically) have no moving parts; there's nothing to fail. They are silent in operation. That last bit is actually one of my favorite parts of such stoves. There's no disruption to the serenity of the wild.
I will burn my battery inflated mattress before I try to boil some coffee water over an Esbit fire
Fishmonger, you need to get out more often.
Yeah, if you use the "out of the box" ESBIT stoves, they're pretty awful, but there are good set ups out there. The Bobcat system from Flat Cat Gear works very well. If you use the Epicurean stove in the low mode, there is no smell.
Jim, this is my Titanium Wing Stove setup. I double or triple layer some aluminum foil folded to the desired height and stapled into a cylinder. Makes a good wind screen. Then it flattens and rolls up to go into a zipper plastic bag along with stove, fuel, lighter (AND extra matches )
One thing I noticed: After blowing out the flame in several uses, the smaller cube doesn't burn very hot. It failed to heat my 600 ML cup on the Whitney summit (Maybe thinner air affected it, too). But a fresh cube worked great.
This is my stove of choice. And I use less than one cube a day.
Hmmm.... Seeing HJ's screen above, I need to try a smaller and taller cylinder, with a small slot for the cup handles.
Originally Posted By: Fishmonger
I will burn my battery inflated mattress before I try to boil some coffee water over an Esbit fire
And I'll eat cold peanut butter and jelly on a tortilla three days straight before I'll schlep a 2 pound blow-torch around just for a hot cup of coffee.
"two days straight..." - there you go. I don't even consider a 2 day trip a hike. My last trip was 24 days. I don't even go to the Sierras unless it is for 2 weeks on the trail or more. Very different situation when you live 2000 miles from the trailheads.
This whole stove thing is like a philosophy to live by, not a clear decision you can make based on a few facts such as weight per day, fuel availability and size. It's all about that feeling you get when that first cup of warm coffee is in your hand after a week on the trail, or while it is freaking cold outside and 50mph wind gusts are pulling on your tent at Iceberg Lake in April. You are allowed to dig your teeth into that frozen peanut butter while I enjoy a warm beverage made from snow.
I had an esbit powered steam engine as a kid. It took forever to heat up the engine's tank that held maybe half a cup of water. Maybe I've been permanently turned off from that type of fuel because of a poorly designed toy
Esbit fuel is rather heavy per BTU, even if I don't have to carry a canister containing the fuel. Fine for a weekend hike, but my hikes are long, with usually 7 or 8 days between resupply, which makes me quite certain that the total weight in fuel I need to carry including the weight of the empty canister is less with isobutane with a Jetboil stove and cup, than any workable solution burning Esbit. And even if it isn't, I will just continue to rely on a solution that delivers what I want rather than trying to save a few ounces and find myself screaming at Esbit pellets while waiting for some heat to get into that water pot.
I have absolutely no issue carrying 10 pounds of camera gear, because I like the results. I also like the results of a proper stove. That is my stove philosophy in a nutshell, I guess. It is a piece of gear that has proven itself over decades of use and you eventually just stop asking yourself if there's a fundamentally different way to shave a few ounces off that piece of essential equipment.
With stoves, the only radical weight saving alternative I'd contemplate is to bring no stove at all and eat cold food, or on a longer summer solo hike support my one-cup-of-coffee-a-day addiction with a wood stove solution. There are some pretty darn good wood stoves out there that don't need more than a few twigs to make enough warm water (or a pellet of Esbit as emergency fuel when there's no wood or it is all wet).
However, I usually hike in a group, and we all like warm drinks and warm meals, so we boil up to a gallon of water each day. That is about 7 gallons between resupplies. We never needed more than one 220g canister for that amount. How much Esbit for and how much longer to heat that much water to a boil? And when it comes to melting snow for water in winter, I think most ultra light solutions are rather challenged.
I've thoroughly tested how efficient my stove is, and even though I could care less about an extra pound or two in my backpack, I do want that extra pound to address a purpose. It is the full package that matters when assessing the value of the extra weight carried. Performance vs. weight is always a tradeoff and the decision what to pack depends on much more than just plain weight. On longer hikes at least, I've so far chosen the Jetboil Sol, while I have left the electrically inflated mattress behind. Esbit for a short hike is fine, but I don't remember having ever done an overnight hike shorter than 8 days unless it was in the middle of winter.
Wow! Lots of responses here. I'm heading out into the backcountry in about an hour, so no time for full replies now.
One quick update: I sent MSR a photo of my flame pattern on my burner. They looked at it and said that something was wrong with my burner. They sent me a new burner. The new burner has a much more even flame and the flame pattern isn't shaped like a horseshoe an it doesn't have a weird dark spot like my old burner. I've got a lot more control with the replacement burner.
Video of burner in use and using a firesteel. By the way, the Windboiler is the world's easiest gas stove to light with a firesteel. I've never seen a gas stove that was this easy to light.
this is my Titanium Wing Stove setup. I double or triple layer some aluminum foil folded to the desired height and stapled into a cylinder.
Hmmm.... Seeing HJ's screen above, I need to try a smaller and taller cylinder, with a small slot for the cup handles.
Generally, the higher the windscreen extends up the side of the pot the better. Yours really does look too low. You want to shoot for getting the windscreen on a set up like yours at least 3/4 of the way up the sides of the pot.
What setup can you recommend for an emergency stove for winter hiking with snow on the ground and windy weather?
Is it realistic to have 0.5 kg / 1 lb weight including a pot, a windscreen, a small canister, a cozy and either a hanging kit or a stand?
0.5 kg for the entire set up is pretty challenging for a winter stove, but I can get you pretty close.
Here's a set up that weighs 518 g, just 18 g more than your specified 0.5 kg: This includes 0.9 L pot, windscreen, full fuel canister (110g), and winter stove. The only "catch" is that you can't cook on snow. You have to find a bare patch of ground, a log, a rock, a snow shovel blade, a foam pad, something that you can set the stove on otherwise a hot stove will melt into the snow.
If that sounds interesting, let me know, and I'll write it up.
