Mt Whitney Webcam
Mt Williamson Webcam
Feature Topics
Who's Online
0 registered (), 7 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
3734 Members
10 Forums
5571 Topics
51008 Posts

Max Online: 382 @ 11/07/12 05:45 AM
Topic Options
#4124 - 05/08/10 04:23 PM Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
OK folks, shoot me for raising the spectre of this topic again, but I just gotta know: have you folks, especially in Cali, noticed any significant difference yet in the National Parks with this law? I hike a couple of times a week at an NPS park (Kennesaw Mountain), and I've not seen anyone carrying openly.

As I said in the threads that went before, I didn't really expect to see any observable change in my neck of the woods - or most of the rest of the country where firearms are widely owned - but there was clearly a high-anxiety level a few months ago about how Californians would respond. I've not seen a single word about armed hikers here or on the WPS, so I'm assuming no issues have popped up but just wanted to ask the question.

Top
#4125 - 05/08/10 05:14 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 595
Loc: Manchester, NH
By and large, the parks in the Sierra are still buried in snow. Tioga Pass isn't open, may not for another couple of weeks.

You might ask the question in a month or two. My hunch is it's a non-issue.

There was odd incident reported in a Bakersfield paper. . Whether the perp was a gun-nut, ATV-nut, or run-of-the-mill hooligan is anyone's guess at this point.

Top
#4126 - 05/08/10 06:02 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: KevinR]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
Kevin, just curious whether anything's been noted in the year-round parks like Death Valley, Joshua Tree or Redwoods, or maybe in Yosemite Valley. I know the high camping season for DV just ended - the two big campgrounds at Furnace Creek usually shut down in April.

It's seemed to me that any media coverage on this topic has been strangely quiet since the law went into effect in February. I was speaking with a ranger at Kennesaw Mountain last week about this, and she said that no one on their staff has seen an armed hiker. There are, however, plenty of guns at the park:



FYI, the Bakersfield paper link is bad so I couldn't access it.

Top
#4127 - 05/08/10 06:34 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
Mike Condron Offline


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 215
Loc: Now Manteca, CA
Personally I think most of the discussion was an academic exercise as opposed to non-totters trying to get totters from carrying. I was mostly interested in hearing the why on carrying in Yosemite. Just Yosemite.

I agree though that the carry season has yet to begin in Yosemite.
_________________________
Mike

Top
#4128 - 05/08/10 08:17 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 595
Loc: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
FYI, the Bakersfield paper link is bad so I couldn't access it.
Should work now.

I wonder if the South will ever get over losing the Civil War?

Top
#4131 - 05/08/10 08:30 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
That's not a gun - It's a cannon.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

Top
#4136 - 05/08/10 09:33 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: wagga]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7718
Loc: Fresno, CA
That item in the Bakersfield paper sounds like a land owner really ticked about illegal motorcycle access. Those concrete cylinders with spikes would make a good tire puncture.

As for KevinR's civil war comment: Everyone loses when a war starts. There may be a winner, but you can be sure there are huge losses on both sides. I think the entire country lost that one.

As for the open carry situation in California:
San Diego assemblywoman Lori Saldana has submitted a bill, Assembly Bill 1934, which would ban open carrying in California. The bill has passed the Committee on Public Safety, and is supported by the California Police Chiefs Association.

It will be interesting to see how that bill goes. I am sure we haven't heard the end of it.

As for people open-carrying in national parks: There just aren't that many people who do that anywhere, and I think somehow, the profile of people who go to visit national parks does not intersect very will with the profile of the open-carry group. So I don't think we will ever see much of that in any national parks.

Top
#4142 - 05/09/10 04:55 AM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: wagga]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: wagga
That's not a gun - It's a cannon.


Technically wagga, a "rifled field gun". Just doesn't carry concealed real well.

And Kevin, it's a National Battlefield Park and historic site - US Gov, not state operated. People visit wanting to see Civil War stuff - particularly the way-out-of-proportion number of Asian tourists the park sees regularly. I've never quite figured that one out, but it's a norm for this park as well as the much, much larger Chickamauga National Battlefield Park in northern Georgia. Something about the Civil War touches the Japanese especially, and they flock to certain historic sites and battlefields in the South when they visit. As a hotel GM in Atlanta, I wish I had a nickel for every time I've had to explain that Tara is fictitous and, no, you can't tour it.

That field gun is part of a 4-gun battery on one mountaintop, while another adjacent mountain has a 5-gun battery. All told, probably 20 or so in the park boundaries - a drop in the bucket compared to Gettysburg (which is by far the coolest National Battlefield Park in the US - strongly recommended - you'll get an incredibly deep sense of what Steve means by "everyone losing").

Top
#4145 - 05/09/10 10:59 AM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
Bee Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Bulldog34


It's seemed to me that any media coverage on this topic has been strangely quiet since the law went into effect in February.


...And here is to continued quiet strangeness from the media I believe that topics such as these get dredged up over and over by a bored mass media that wishes to create a situation were none may previously exist.
_________________________
The body betrays and the weather conspires, hopefully, not on the same day.

Top
#4149 - 05/09/10 11:49 AM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bulldog34]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
I really doubt even when Yosemite opens up fully you will see anyone open carrying any more then you do in any city.

The whole subject to me is a non issue, the fact that anyone would submit a bill to make something illegal for no real reason other then they want something that way is an exercise in oppression IMO. crazy
_________________________
FlickR

Top
#4150 - 05/09/10 11:55 AM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Bee]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2248
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
From the upcoming Abbrevia:

MSM Mainstream Media // Totally ignores the hiking/packpack community unless something bad happens.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

Top
#4168 - 05/09/10 11:02 PM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Ken]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7718
Loc: Fresno, CA
I believe the Federal regulations were changed so that the National Parks would adhere to the laws of the state where they are located. And I believe anyone can carry an unconcealed weapon in California as long as it is NOT loaded. So we could potentially see people carrying weapons in Yosemite now.

It is the gun permit holders who can carry a loaded and concealed weapon.

And in California State parks, it is still illegal, by state law, to posses any weapon (Of course due to the sorry state of California's budget, a number are closing down mad )

At least that's how I read the current situation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Top
#4238 - 05/12/10 07:33 AM Re: Guns in National Parks, Vol. 1, No. 2 [Re: Steve C]
George Offline
Woodsy Guy

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 202
Loc: California
Steve's correct. State law is adopted for National Parks. There's a lot of fine points to work out but it mostly only allows people with a California (!) county issued concealed carry permit to have a loaded weapon in a National Park -- though not in a building. Another federal law supersedes state law on that one (e.g. visitor center, admin center).

And, yes, people can do the open carry of an unloaded weapon, though I suspect they'd just subject themselves to weapons checks by officers all the time.


g.
_________________________
None of the views expressed here in any way represent those of the unidentified agency that I work for or, often, reality. It's just me, fired up by coffee and powerful prose.

Top