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#44501 - 10/09/15 12:17 AM The Danger of a Life-Saving Device
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
The Danger of a Life-Saving Device
from Sierra:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2015-4-july-august/feature/danger-life-saving-device

Dale B. Dalrymple


Edit: New thread started.
This is a followup to an older thread: Another Rescue, and lessons


Edited by Steve C (10/13/15 08:45 AM)

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#44503 - 10/09/15 06:03 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: dbd]
Harvey Lankford Offline


Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 980
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
this quote might be useful in the discussion here.

To incur danger deliberately and to wrestle with difficulties which have in them elements of danger are two entirely different things.
Frank Smythe, The Mountain Vision, page 45

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#44504 - 10/09/15 07:22 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: dbd]
bruce Online


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 74
Loc: Novato, CA
Originally Posted By: dbd
The Danger of a Life-Saving Device
from Sierra:

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2015-4-july-august/feature/danger-life-saving-device

Dale B. Dalrymple


Article paints an unnecessarily gloom and doom picture of the future of false alarms from rescue devices. The vast majority of them come because of the lack of two-way communication, which in the future, will become more standard. They should have articulated this, because two-way communication obviously makes a HUGE difference if a rescuer can ascertain the nature of the emergency, or especially, if there really is one.

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#44505 - 10/09/15 08:22 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: dbd]
Snacking Bear Offline


Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 446
Loc: Saugus, CA
Great read, the tone did smack a little fatalistic, but it's purpose was to analyze this single issue.
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#44506 - 10/09/15 09:05 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: Snacking Bear]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7191
Loc: Fresno, CA
This is an old thread, and that article, based on the first comments, came out 4 months ago. But regardless, there is something picked out of the article:

The guy sending the false alarm had programmed his "Custom Message" button with a stupid message:
"HELP!!! I AM ALIVE SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG SEND HELP IMMEDIATELY." Those messages cannot be changed out in the field -- they are programmed at home on the SPOT website, and only one message can be set.

There is no difference between that message and the SOS button. The Custom Message button can be mistakenly activated, while the SOS button is protected by a cover, and it takes real determination to activate the signal.

I like somewhat the idea that people should be charged for sending false alarms.

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#44511 - 10/09/15 09:57 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: bruce]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: bruce

Article paints an unnecessarily gloom and doom picture of the future of false alarms from rescue devices. The vast majority of them come because of the lack of two-way communication, which in the future, will become more standard. They should have articulated this, because two-way communication obviously makes a HUGE difference if a rescuer can ascertain the nature of the emergency, or especially, if there really is one.


What you say about the ability of two way communication is true. The problem today is that we have had two way comms available for years but not at a mass market price point. There are fine standard effective satellite phones at high cost compared to current cellphone technology. But 'good enough for city use' cell tech undercut the market for satellite tech so that the intended (by developers) economy of scale from widespread adoption of 'backcountry capable' two way comms hasn't happened. You can buy easy backcountry two way but few consider it affordable. I don't expect cellular developers to burden themselves with the costs of 'backcountry capability'.

We have the two way technology, we don't choose to use it. Many also have expectations on emergency response based on in town experiences that really aren't applicable in wilderness areas. These two issues have combined to produce consequences for SAR providers.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#44521 - 10/09/15 01:25 PM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: dbd]
bruce Online


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 74
Loc: Novato, CA
Delorme Inreach is about as affordable as Spot, but with two way texting. And unlike Spot, you can choose to pay for only the months you use it.

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#44524 - 10/09/15 03:31 PM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: bruce]
John Sims Offline


Registered: 04/20/12
Posts: 523
Loc: Sunnyvale, California
Originally Posted By: bruce
Delorme Inreach is about as affordable as Spot, but with two way texting. And unlike Spot, you can choose to pay for only the months you use it.


This two way texting is also available when using "SOS", so Search and Rescue can get clarification as to the nature of the emergency. This two way messaging might have saved the S&R guys an unnecessary mission, but given the guy's incompetence to even send a per-programmed message I'm not sure.

As Steve pointed out the message was equivalent to SOS, but not sent directly to Search and Rescue. Difficult to understand the reason behind this per-programmed message. While not all senders of "false" SOS messages should be fined or pay the cost of the mission it seems to me that this one would be a candidate.

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#44527 - 10/09/15 04:05 PM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: John Sims]
bruce Online


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 74
Loc: Novato, CA
Originally Posted By: John Sims
Originally Posted By: bruce
Delorme Inreach is about as affordable as Spot, but with two way texting. And unlike Spot, you can choose to pay for only the months you use it.


This two way texting is also available when using "SOS", so Search and Rescue can get clarification as to the nature of the emergency. This two way messaging might have saved the S&R guys an unnecessary mission, but given the guy's incompetence to even send a per-programmed message I'm not sure.

As Steve pointed out the message was equivalent to SOS, but not sent directly to Search and Rescue. Difficult to understand the reason behind this per-programmed message. While not all senders of "false" SOS messages should be fined or pay the cost of the mission it seems to me that this one would be a candidate.


Yes, and that gives the Inreach a huge advantage. Can you imagine the false alarms if people could just push a button instead of dailing 911? And at least the police only have to drive a short distance in order to find out it's a false alarm. SAR have to go to remote areas under often risky conditions and huge expense. Hopefully all SOS devices soon be 2-way enabled. I think that the false alarms saved by two-way will more than offset the increased popularity and use of the devices.

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#44533 - 10/09/15 09:17 PM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: bruce]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1535
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
I am not anti-adventure, and I am not anti-electronics, but I am anti-stupid. In this, as so many other cases, she could have taken the Search AND Rescue out of SAR with just the ten essentials. Its why they are called "essentials".
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Wherever you go, there you are.
SPOTMe!

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#44569 - 10/13/15 07:11 AM Re: Another Rescue, and lessons => A recent recap [Re: saltydog]
SierraNevada Offline


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1097
Loc: NorCal
Steve,
IMHO, this PLB/SAR article seems worthy of a separate post and maybe even a "spot" in the References forum. The OP from a year ago got way off track and "essentially" buries this otherwise useful article.

Lame puns intended.

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#44572 - 10/13/15 08:46 AM Re: The Danger of a Life-Saving Device [Re: SierraNevada]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7191
Loc: Fresno, CA
Done. Split into its own thread.

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