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Permit question...what are the ramifications?
#4531 05/25/10 07:45 AM
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I have a two day Whitney trail permit for June. Several of the female hikers in our group are concerned with summiting and makeing it back to Whitney portal on the same day. If by chance we HAVE to stretch the trip out to three days, what are the consequences? Are we fined to the point where we can never afford another pair of hikeing boots, shot on site, or what? Thanks, Feniantrekker

Last edited by Feniantrekker; 05/25/10 07:56 AM.
Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
Feniantrekker #4534 05/25/10 08:00 AM
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If you have a legal backpacking permit, don't worry about staying an extra or two as long as your love ones know enough not to call SAR out.

I asked a similar question last year at ESIVC concerning an Exit Permit. The response was just as long as you cross the Trail Crest +/- a day we don't care.

The exit date has never been a big deal on a permit.

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
wbtravis #4536 05/25/10 08:19 AM
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Depends on the ranger, where you are stopped and most importantly your attitude. Back "in-the-day", when I was younger and a lot more mouthy I never bothered with permits. I'm probably the only guy to get TWO tickets in one trip - one just below the summit and one near Mirror Lake. It's cheaper on the Sequoia side than in the actual "Whitney Zone" (50 vs 250). Well, it used to be - I've since gone legit and mended my big mouth ways - I haven't had a brush with a ranger since 1999.

I would think that a ranger would rather you take a little longer and exit safely than push it trying to beat the clock.

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
DUG #4539 05/25/10 10:43 AM
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DUG, Those smart-mouth days were wild weren't they. I once shook an angry fist at a CHP officer. Got a ticket 5 minutes later. He never showed up in court. I once told a motorcycle cop "Bull****!" while he was writing a ticket. I paid that one.

But regarding the permits, as long as a hiker has a legal permit and starts hiking on the day specified on the permit, that permit is good for 14 days, regardless of what the exit date states (except that you cannot exit the wilderness and re-enter -- that would require a new permit.)

The exit date is just for information-collection purposes, such as loved ones reporting you missing. If your permit says you planned to exit on a specific date, and you're reported missing a week after that, they probably won't start looking for you on the trail.

Feniantrekker should tell the rangers of the change in plans when he picks up the actual permit, and they will change the information on the permit accordingly.

wbtravis reference to the Trail Crest Exit permit is a different permit, unlike the permits to enter and hike on the main Mt Whitney trail. It is designed to limit the number of people coming in from Horseshoe Meadows or Onion Valley (or other points north) and exiting on the Mt Whitney trail. With that kind of trip, two permits are required: The trail entry permit, AND the Trail Crest exit permit. In this ONE UNIQUE situation, it matters WHEN you exit.

Furthermore, if you came across Trail Crest on the specific Exit Permit date, you are still probably ok to camp/stay multiple days on the Main Mt Whitney Trail before actually exiting at Whitney Portal.

And one last point, (for others reading this) if you are starting your hike OUTSIDE the Inyo National Forest trails, as in coming from the west side, starting the hike in Sequoia National Park, the Trail Crest exit permit is not required. Hiking out on the Main Mt Whitney Trail is perfectly ok with the single permit.

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
Feniantrekker #4544 05/25/10 12:28 PM
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Good topic. Question--what about the entry point? E.G., I have a Inyo permit for entering Taboose Pass (I think) and exiting the portal. What if I enter somewhere else, like up Baxter Pass or Onion Valley? What if I don't exit the Portal the day it says (i.e., earlier or later)? Or what if I enter Taboose Pass and go north, and exit somewhere else?

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
Steve C #4546 05/25/10 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
DUG, Those smart-mouth days were wild weren't they. I once shook an angry fist at a CHP officer. Got a ticket 5 minutes later. He never showed up in court. I once told a motorcycle cop "Bull****!" while he was writing a ticket. I paid that one.

A farmer got pulled over by a state trooper for speeding, and the trooper started to lecture the farmer about his speed,
and in general began to throw his weight around to try to make the farmer uncomfortable.

Finally, the trooper got around to writing out the ticket, and as he was doing that he kept swatting at some flies
that were buzzing around his head.

The farmer said, "Having some problems with circle flies there, are ya?"
The trooper stopped writing the ticket and said--
"Well yeah, if that's what they are-- I never heard of circle flies".

So the farmer says-- "Well, circle flies are common on farms.
See, they're called circle flies because they're almost always found circling around the back end of a horse."

The trooper says, "Oh," and goes back to writing the ticket.
Then after a minute he stops and says,
"Hey...wait a minute, are you trying to call me a horses back end?"

The farmer says, "Oh no, officer. I have too much respect for law enforcement and police officers to even think about calling you a horses back end."

The trooper says, "Well, that's a good thing," and goes back to writing the ticket.

After a long pause, the farmer says, "Hard to fool them flies though."


Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII
Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
wagga #4549 05/25/10 01:10 PM
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LOL - that's pretty funny Wagga!

Truth is, the rangers were just doing their job when they got me. I really EARNED that 2nd ticket.

Young and dumb I guess. Harder to do when you're old and dumb..........................DUG

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
Feniantrekker #4559 05/25/10 03:39 PM
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I originally had a two day permit. I also had a group of hikers that were going. When I got "drafted" it ended up in June rather than August and everyone decided it was to expensive to get the gear. I got one of my buddies from work to go and he wanted to stay an extra night. Although there were no days on the website available I called the ranger station. They were glad to extend it a day!! I would just call ahead, won't be a problem.


"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks"...John Muir
Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
steelfrog #4564 05/25/10 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: steelfrog
Good topic.
Question--what about the entry point? E.G., I have a Inyo permit for entering Taboose Pass (I think) and exiting the portal. What if I enter somewhere else, like up Baxter Pass or Onion Valley? What if I don't exit the Portal the day it says (i.e., earlier or later)? Or what if I enter Taboose Pass and go north, and exit somewhere else?


Your entry permit at Taboose Pass is good to enter and go wherever you want. Just tell the rangers when you pick up the permit what your final plans are.

But your permit is NOT good to enter on any other trail, or to enter on any other day. If you enter somewhere else, then you need a permit for that trail. And walk-ins for trails become available at 11 AM at any of the 4 Inyo National Forest ranger stations the day BEFORE you want to hike. (The Eastern Sierra is a very popular hiking area, easily accessible by people from the very populous So. Cal area, so all advance permits are usually taken well in advance.) See the trails and quotas here.   Availability here.

Now, if you are exiting to Whitney Portal via the MMWT (Main Mt Whitney Trail) and you are starting on an Inyo NF trail, then you also must have a Trail Crest exit permit. (See what wbtravis wrote above regarding +/- a day.) When you called for the Taboose permit, I hope they mentioned the Trail Crest exit permit (TCEP). And there is no exit permit requirement anywhere else in the Sierra -- ONLY at Trail Crest on the MMWT.

If you don't have the TCEP, call and get one now. They are probably already taken, but 40% (10) are held back for walk-ins. Since you are starting so far north, then your exit will be about a week later, so you should be one of the first to "walk in" and ask for a TCEP for that particular date.

An alternative would be to exit via Whitney Russell pass and the Whitney Mountaineers Route, leaving the JMT just before Guitar Lake, walking off-trail up past Arctic Lakes. It is a wide-open and easy valley to walk, and the only tricky part in descending is knowing where the route is past Clyde Meadow (thick willows), and the Ebersbacher Ledges. No exit permit would be required going that way.

Re: Permit question...what are the ramifications?
Feniantrekker #4617 05/26/10 03:15 PM
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Thank you all for your responses!! I called the Inyo Nat. Forest office this morning to ask for a third day, and they were most accommodating.


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