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#45162 - 01/21/16 03:42 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
Frank, Roads End in Kings Canyon just heads up Bubbs Creek toward Vidette Meadow, and joins your trail coming over Kearsarge Pass right where your KP trail drops down to Vidette Meadow and Bubbs Cr. (Map link0

However, it is a long slog: You start at 5k elevation and climb a long time over a long distance. I think starting on the east side is certainly easier from the car-shuttle stand point. It's a long drive to Roads End: about 2 hours from Fresno.

But you certainly wouldn't need that infernal Exit Permit!

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#45163 - 01/21/16 05:36 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 428
Loc: Reno, NV
I've been using this person's hike to help me plan my hike. It seems the start at Roads End is about the same length. I could camp the 1st night about 10 miles in from Roads End before I reach the PCT near Lower Vidette Meadow. From the point where I reach the PCT it looks like the same hike. I could camp the 2nd night somewhere before Forester Pass and be right on schedule. Am I missing something here? What is the difference between the two routes? Is it mainly the difficult car shuttle? And more importantly do I not need an exit permit (Trail Crest) to finish at Whitney Portal? Do I need a permit to enter at Roads End?


Edited by RenoFrank (01/21/16 05:44 PM)

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#45164 - 01/21/16 09:43 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
From Roads End it is 4500' elevation climb to the Vidette Meadow junction. It's a 2500' gain to Kearsarge pass.

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#45166 - 01/22/16 07:57 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 428
Loc: Reno, NV
Any thoughts on this scenario?

Someone in my group gets permits for us starting at Roads End and exiting at Whitney Portal. I don't need a Trail Crest exit permit, correct?

Another in my group gets a permit entering at Kearsarge Pass. An out and back or even exiting at Horseshoe Meadows.

We start at Onion Valley and exit at Whitney Portal showing the appropriate permit depending where we are.

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#45167 - 01/22/16 08:36 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
WanderingJim Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 236
Loc: California
RenoFrank, I assume the 'tunnel Tram/Elevator' shown on your elevation profile is a joke?

Or is there really such a shortcut for rangers going between the Crabtree ranger station and the Portal? smile
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#45168 - 01/22/16 08:55 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: WanderingJim]
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 428
Loc: Reno, NV
Jim, it's not my elevation profile. I found it online. And I've never been there. Also note the "Forester Pass Elevator ($5 Fee)"

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#45169 - 01/22/16 08:58 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted By: RenoFrank
Any thoughts on this scenario?

Someone in my group gets permits for us starting at Roads End and exiting at Whitney Portal. I don't need a Trail Crest exit permit, correct?

Another in my group gets a permit entering at Kearsarge Pass. An out and back or even exiting at Horseshoe Meadows.

We start at Onion Valley and exit at Whitney Portal showing the appropriate permit depending where we are.

grin That's definitely an inventive method. It would work, too. Only catch is that to get the actual permit for Roads End, someone would need to drive over and sign in to pick up the actual permit, then drive back.

I did that last year for an overnight permit for Little Yosemite Valley and Half Dome: Drove up, picked up a walk-in permit, then drove home. Drove back next day and started the hike.

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#45170 - 01/22/16 08:58 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
WanderingJim Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 236
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: RenoFrank
Jim, it's not my elevation profile. I found it online. And I've never been there. Also note the "Forester Pass Elevator ($5 Fee)"


smile Didn't notice that one. The 'Slightly out of scale' hikers are amusing too. Got to love trail humor.


When I did Whitney last year, I did joke with someone about needing a escalator up from Trail Camp to Trail Crest. smile Must have been the lack of oxygen. smile


Edited by WanderingJim (01/22/16 10:26 AM)
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#45171 - 01/22/16 03:24 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
Glenn Offline


Registered: 09/16/11
Posts: 105
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: RenoFrank
Any thoughts on this scenario?

Someone in my group gets permits for us starting at Roads End and exiting at Whitney Portal. I don't need a Trail Crest exit permit, correct?

Another in my group gets a permit entering at Kearsarge Pass. An out and back or even exiting at Horseshoe Meadows.

We start at Onion Valley and exit at Whitney Portal showing the appropriate permit depending where we are.


Hmm. Could work. But at altitude you might not be thinking as clearly as you would need for pulling off such a caper. Mr. Ranger: “Can I see your permit?” Group leader(s): “Sure! Er, well, um, wait a minute... First can you tell us exactly where we are?”

As Steve said, the Roads End route starts lower than the Onion Valley route. It's also 4 miles longer. On the plus side, the long gradual uphill of Bubbs Creek might make for better acclimatization, and your first night of camping would likely be 1000' or more lower than the other way.

Mount Whitney, The Complete Trailhead-to-Summit Hiking Guide by Paul Richins, Jr. has an overview complete with elevation profile for both routes.

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#45177 - 01/23/16 10:19 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Glenn]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
I got up early this AM and tried to reserve 5 slots -- they were gone before I could click, scroll, and click again!

practice link

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#45179 - 01/24/16 10:31 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
Paul Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 186
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
So Steve, your thoughts? 12:01 ET?

paul

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#45181 - 01/24/16 11:32 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Paul]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
Paul, it's 10 AM ET, 7:00 PST.
Practicing how to minimize mouse movements to reduce the amount of time it takes to move-click-move-click.

Alternative is to book a trip from Kearsarge to Horseshoe Meadows, then hope for walk-in exit permits.

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#45182 - 01/24/16 02:51 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
Paul Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 186
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
Can't we trick the system somehow?

paul

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#45183 - 01/24/16 05:36 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Paul]
WanderingJim Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 236
Loc: California
I got lucky and snagged a July 22nd exit permit (just kind of appeared when I refreshed the date range). My biggest concern was even when an exit permit should show up there wouldn't be an entry date that would work. Got lucky there too. Didn't even need to have a 2 week entry/exit difference. "I guess I walked a lot faster than I thought I would!" smile

I know last year permits started reappearing in May because of people dropping lottery dates they couldn't use, but that shouldn't happen with exit permits.

Just have to keep checking and get lucky, I guess.
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#45189 - 01/25/16 08:24 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
britonwhit(ney) Offline


Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 76
Loc: UK
I had a play with it today, I'm now "in training" for making a reservation in a few weeks' time (for mid-late August).

I'd minimised the mouse clicks, screen movements, etc. through some browser optimisation, and I estimate <0.5secs from availability appearing to me clicking "book permit". I failed.

It was sufficiently fast that I wonder whether someone has a script running to automate this... Does anybody use the exit permits commercially?

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#45191 - 01/25/16 08:41 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: britonwhit(ney)]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
You were competing against me. I ran a practice and nailed 6 slots this morning. I turned them back in after 4 minutes. The mouse movements... and the speed of your Internet connection come into play here.

I am pretty sure commercial outfits are banned from the exit trail. I know the TSX Challenge people, who do a Sierra crossing are required to exit via Horseshoe Meadow for this very reason. Even though they aren't even required to have an exit permit, since they are coming from the west side, and a non-Inyo N.F. trail head.

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#45203 - 01/26/16 08:05 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: Steve C]
britonwhit(ney) Offline


Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 76
Loc: UK
That explains it...! You were very fast; I'd optimised the browser so that only one mouse movement was required (and 2 clicks and a keypress) and you still beat me. Maybe the transatlantic cable latency let me down.

Today, even an hour later, there are still 5 permits left so my suspicions about a script are unfounded.

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#45226 - 01/28/16 05:45 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: britonwhit(ney)]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2243
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
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#45319 - 02/21/16 07:49 PM Re: Trip Planning [Re: britonwhit(ney)]
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 428
Loc: Reno, NV
I just cancelled a reservation that will make available 5 permits exiting Trail Crest-Mt Whitney on Sunday August 14. If that works for you keep an eye on that site/page.

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#45321 - 02/22/16 08:36 AM Re: Trip Planning [Re: RenoFrank]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
I saw them this morning around 7 AM, but they soon disappeared.

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