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#49528 - 04/03/17 07:42 PM MR - Correct Spelling
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 414
Loc: Reno, NV
I can't find this discussion. What's the concensus?

Mountaineers Route? Mountaineer's Route?

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#49529 - 04/03/17 08:12 PM Re: MR - Correct Spelling [Re: RenoFrank]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
When I travel it alone, I say it's the Mountaineer's Route. When I travel it with others, I say it's the Mountaineers' Route. When I'm reading or posting on the net I wish I were there instead.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#49531 - 04/03/17 09:20 PM Re: MR - Correct Spelling [Re: RenoFrank]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1550
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Mountaineer's Route. Two reasons: fool's gold, fool's errand, busman's holiday, sailor's delight, Fisherman's Wharf, miner's lettuce etc etc can't find one that's not a singular possessive. Second reason: this one is named for one particular Mountaineer.

And BTW: it starts above Iceberg Lake. Not below.
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#49532 - 04/03/17 09:44 PM Re: MR - Correct Spelling [Re: saltydog]
RenoFrank Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 414
Loc: Reno, NV
Originally Posted By: saltydog


And BTW: it starts above Iceberg Lake. Not below.


Please explain. When I left the Main Trail 25 minutes from the Portal, I thought I was on the Mountaineer's Route.

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#49534 - 04/03/17 10:24 PM Re: MR - Correct Spelling [Re: RenoFrank]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1550
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Look here.

Mountaineer's Route is one of dozens of climbing routes. Approach to all of them is North Fork Lone Pine Creek.



Photo and caption by John Scurlock

(A) Pinnacle Ridge. (B) Aiguille Extra. (C) Third Needle. (D) Crooks Peak (Day Needle). (1) Beckey Route. (2) BCB on the Prow. (E) Keeler Needle. (3) Harding Route. (4) Crimson Wall. (5) Australopithecus. (6) Blood of the Monkey. (7) Lowe Route. (F). Mt. Whitney. (8) Strassman Route. (9) Left Wing Extremist. (10) Direct East Face (11) Hairline (12) Great Book. (13) East Face (14) Sunshine-Peewee (East Buttress). (15) Mountaineer’s Route. (16) Rotten Chimney. (17) Cardiovascular Seizure. Approximate lines; some routes not shown.


Edited by saltydog (04/03/17 10:35 PM)
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#49536 - 04/04/17 07:26 AM Re: MR - Correct Spelling [Re: saltydog]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 780
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
The Mountaineer's Route (singular, possessive, traditional spelling as in Secor, and as known locally) starts just above Iceberg Lake. The "Mountaineer" was John Muir, who climbed it solo on October 21, 1873.

Mountain route names always refer to the actual climbing route on a mountain, at the start of the "difficulties", not the approach hike. The approach hike to the Mountaineer's Route is on the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek and is not part of the actual climbing route.


Edited by Bob West (04/04/17 07:29 AM)

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#49538 - 04/04/17 10:36 AM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: RenoFrank]
bobpickering Offline


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Reno, Nevada
The subject here is punctuation, not spelling.

Joe’s Bar is a bar belonging to (or founded by or run by) one guy named Joe. Joes’ Bar is a bar belonging to two or more guys named Joe. Joes Bar is a bar belonging to an idiot.

Many people type “Mountaineers Route” out of ignorance. If it were named for John Muir’s first ascent, I would expect it to be “Muir’s Route” or “The John Muir Route” or something similar. I seriously doubt that the name refers to Muir. I always type “Mountaineers’ Route,” since it belongs to and is climbed by all of us.

Bob West is correct about where it starts.

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#49540 - 04/04/17 01:41 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: bobpickering]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7235
Loc: Fresno, CA
This discussion cracks me up. grin grin

I wish people would write with two spaces after a sentence-ending period, too.  Like this.  And not after abbreviations, like this:  Dr. J. J. Smith  Oh, and two spaces after every colon, like I did back there.

While I'm on my rant, why is it that some places use curly quotes, as in Bob P's “Muir’s Route”, while other places, we see straight quotes, like this:  "Muir's Route"?

Then there is the issue of Sierra vs Sierras.  If I could, I would climb up there and put a curly apostrophe on that sign:



...in the Hollyweed spirit:

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#49542 - 04/04/17 01:44 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: bobpickering]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1550
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
My story is the same as Bob West's, and I'm stickin to it.So their.


Edited by saltydog (04/04/17 01:48 PM)
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#49543 - 04/04/17 01:51 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: saltydog]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1550
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
And, hey; what's wrong with a bar for Joes?
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#49545 - 04/04/17 04:18 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: bobpickering]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 780
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Read on:

http://pweb.jps.net/~prichins/mt-whit.htm

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#49546 - 04/04/17 05:01 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: Steve C]
illyav Offline


Registered: 08/24/16
Posts: 11
Loc: California
Steve I think the difference between curly and straight quotation marks is the font being used. They appear differently in different fonts, the most common fonts being Times New Roman (curly) and Arial (straight), and the word processing program being used might also affect quotation appearances. The use of quotation marks annoys me when there is a word or phrase being written about but it’s not an actual ‘quote.’ From my understanding, if a word or phrase is being discussed, such as whether ‘Mountaineer’s Route’ or ‘Mountaineers’ Route’ is more proper, it is in single, inverted commas, distinguishing it from an actual quote from a cited source. “Many people type ‘Mountaineers Route’ out of ignorance.” – bobpickering < this would be correct usage, but I know the rules vary in different English speaking countries.

As for Sierra vs. Sierras, I prefer Sierras since it’s not only Americanized already like many other Spanish words, but its pluralization sounds more descriptive of the vast range. For example, “Wow, look at the Sierra today!” and translated to English, “Wow, look at the mountain range today!” both sound really general and broad. “Wow, look at the Sierras today!” encourages seeing the mountains (plural) with more individuality instead of as just one big range. Just my thoughts.
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#49547 - 04/04/17 05:25 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: illyav]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7235
Loc: Fresno, CA
Illyav, thanks for the comments. But to set it straight, curly quotes are actually a completely different character code from a straight quote. I deal with data and character text data in my job, and curly single quotes (aka apostrophes) are:
' = 39
‘ = 145
’ = 146

Double quotes, aka quotation marks:
" = 34
“ = 147
” = 148.

And then there are about a dozen European characters that have diacritical marks:  ŕ, á, â, ă, ä, ć, é, etc.
They all have their own crazy code number, and depending on where they are used, they can cause problems.

I've written programs to convert those characters.

So I prefer MR for that route. grin

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#49548 - 04/04/17 08:51 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: Steve C]
illyav Offline


Registered: 08/24/16
Posts: 11
Loc: California
Oh I didn’t know there were different codes for the same punctuation mark. Yes that does seem redundant.
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#49550 - 04/05/17 01:38 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: illyav]
saltydog Online


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1550
Loc: Valley Ford CA!!!!
Code? Seriously?
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#49552 - 04/05/17 10:21 PM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: saltydog]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7235
Loc: Fresno, CA
Code? ...well, yeah.

Would you like me to give you the 8-bit binary code for those?

Seriously. wink

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#49553 - 04/06/17 03:37 AM Re: MR - Correct Punctuation [Re: Steve C]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2213
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
Low-hanging fruit:

Unicode; ISO8859-1; ISO 10646
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