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Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
#50698 07/08/17 11:43 PM
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Hello All:

I recently completed a Whitney summit on 7/7/17. Feel free to read my trip report. Here I want to briefly discuss (or maybe vent) the stupidity on the mountain that never ceases to amaze me after my 20+ hikes:

1. A hiker at the start of the trail with 7 liters of water in his pack! After I politely and delicately told him that there is water galore all the way to trailcamp and there was no need to lug 15 pounds on his back he seemed rather irritate and walked off.

2. I encountered a guy and his girlfriend today (Saturday) at around 11am just above Mirror Lake stating that they were going to summit and come back by nightfall....yes, and Santa Claus is coming on December 25th! The thing that really irritated me is that his girlfriend had no idea just how dangerous this was....for a same day hike they should be at trailcrest by 11am (or earlier).

3. Hiking up the snow chute with no ice ax! Or, hiking up the snow chute after 8am when it is slushy even with an ice ax....how exactly do people plan on self-arresting if they slip?

4. Hiking under these snowy/icy conditions without crampons - enough said.

5. People leaving their wagbags all over the mountain. I saw at least 20 wagbags within 15 feet of lakes and/or streams and dozens along the trail all over the mountain. I'm embarrassed to be a part of the human race....I don't know what else to say.

6. People leaving trash, bottles, wrappers, underwear, socks, sunglasses (cracked lens so I guess it was too heaving to pack out), shoes, etc.

7. People not using a wagbag and just defecating wherever they feel like.....do people realize when it rains all of this just washes into the lakes and streams that we are using as our water source? And, even if it doesn't rain, do we really want to turn a nice, beautiful back-country hike into a fecal aroma-fest instead?

8. Reaching the summit late and hiking down the switchbacks/chute with headlamps in these snowy/ice conditions.....really? Is Mt. Whitney going anywhere...can't they just turn around and hike it some other day?

9. Leaving trailcamp with a bottle of water. Yes, you can boil snow in a pinch (if you bring a stove with you to the summit)...but if you don't know that there are no real water sources between trailcamp and the summit you shouldn't be heading to the summit!

10. Not bringing an emergency blanket and/or emergency shelter with you to the summit. Yes, sometimes the weather does change unexpectedly and you can encounter sever snow, wind, hail, rain, etc. I can email you my summit pics from yesterday and you would think I was lying to you if I told you 30 minutes later we encountered a hail storm!

I could go on for days....but my intent is to encourage other hikers to list some of their similar observations. I am not trying to pick on anyone; rather, I am trying to help people not repeat these mistakes on their Mt. Whitney expeditions. More importantly, I don't want anyone to think I believe that everyone who has been injured and/or died on Mt. Whitney was an idiot. Look, sometimes even smart, experienced hikers suffer accidents and my thoughts and prayers go out to each and every hiker that has been injured on the mountain.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
mountainman99 #50699 07/09/17 06:56 AM
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Sea level devils...city slickers...out of towners...

I have a sign that reads: Stupidity should be painful.

I bet Mr. 7 liter either took your advice or didn't. If he didn't, bet his knees and thighs are hurting.

As for Mr. and Ms. Nightfall, hope they are still together.

As for the we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-ice-axes, stupidity SHOULD be painful.

As for the others, go back home, don't come back. You're filthy and lucky to be alive.

As for your hailstorm, mountainman99, I believe you. I work in Fresno and saw those cumulonimbus clouds over the Sierra. They were probably pea-sized if not larger. They hurt. The Stupidity axiom does apply to you. Bet it was cool to see Mother Nature unleash its anger.


Journey well...
Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
mountainman99 #50700 07/09/17 07:42 AM
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This is why some of us are calling for a severe restriction on the number of Whitney permits, and for closing the trail for a few years to let nature clean the place.

The same situation exists all over the world in popular hiking areas, but Whitney is among the worst. Will the USFS do anything about it? They have been dragging their heels about this for years.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
mountainman99 #50701 07/09/17 07:57 AM
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While what you mention are valid observations, I can only imagine your critiques of humans not on Whitney would be a short list?

One thing I noticed on my trip a few years back was that most of the wag bags are brought down by the owners late in the day by "the 4pm peak" crowd.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
retarded #50703 07/09/17 09:03 AM
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Not all people leave their wag bags along the trail, but enough do so to make a mess behind for others.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
mountainman99 #50706 07/09/17 09:29 AM
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To all of you newbies. I'm one of mountyainman99's newbie friends (see mountyainman99 other post) that was able to summit on July 7th. We encountered a few hikers during our descent that had never hiked Mt. Whitney, who seemed oblivious to this undertaking. It's not a quest to be taken lightly, it's a serious physical endeavor. Even if your an experienced hiker (which I'm not) my recommendation would be to seek out a hiking partner that has experience on this mountain, especially considering the current conditions. No amount of research can substitute for hands on knowledge. Even with mountainman99, we encountered dicey situations. The fact that both of us newbies were able to summit (relatively unhurt) is mostly due to our experienced hiking partner. I'm not posting this to scare or alarm anyone. I'm sure under optimal conditions thousands of people safely and successfully hike Mt. Whitney annually. IMO, your goal should be to safety enjoy the experience, and if a situation arises that you can't summit, don't despair. Mt. Whitney will be there for your next try.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Killercadougan #50708 07/09/17 01:28 PM
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How much water would you guys recommend to carry from Trail Camp to summit and back to Trail Camp?

I've heard 3L+ suggested a few times - but that seems like a lot?

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Marcus #50709 07/09/17 02:26 PM
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3L = 6 lbs...

If you can cache along the way...


Journey well...
Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Marcus #50711 07/09/17 03:03 PM
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3 liters is what I always take and have never had a problem.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Marcus #50712 07/09/17 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marcus
How much water would you guys recommend to carry from Trail Camp to summit and back to Trail Camp?

I've heard 3L+ suggested a few times - but that seems like a lot?

3L is not a lot. As you can see, 3L is generally the rule. Drink one by the time you reach Trail Crest. Stash the empty plus one full at Trail Crest, to drink on the way back. Carry one from trail Crest to the summit, supplement it with snow along the way.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Back to the main topic, Hiker Stupidity:
mountainman99: Understand that only about 5% (maybe 10%) of Whitney Hikers read forums like this, or do much research about what it takes to summit Mt Whitney. So you're going to see some unusual situations.

My comments:
1. The dude with 7L water: He didnt' make it. My bro tried to do Half Dome once with 3-4L. He didn't make it either.

2. guy and gf: Let's hope they turned around by about Trail Camp. Probably did.

3-4 and most of the others: A few are making it without crampons & ice axe. They certainly get into danger if the slushy snow freezes up. Temperatures are so high these days, though (lows in the 40s), that freeze-up isn't occurring.

Just understand: 99% of the dangerous and risky situations turn out ok. It's the 1% that winds up with an emergency requiring a call to SAR.

As for the litter and WAG bags: There are better solutions to pack-it-out programs, but Inyo N.F. isn't trying them.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Steve C #50717 07/09/17 10:10 PM
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Steve_C: I agree with you 100%.... InyoNF can be doing A LOT more.... and should be doing more. However, most people complain about too much government/regulations... maybe we should form a volunteer group to educate hikers at the start of the hike and make weekly "poop extraction hikes". I don't know what else to do: every time I hike Whitney the problem seems worse.

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Steve C #50719 07/10/17 01:32 AM
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Thanks Steve C! It never occurred to me to use snow as drinking water!

Although I'll be going in the first week of August - there probably (hopefully!?) won't be any snow left by then??

On the WAG bags - I don't think education is the problem. If someone is inconsiderate enough to leave a bag of poop on the trail, they know full well what they're doing.

The way I see it - you should leave the trail how you would want to find it. How would they like it if they had to walk past other people's poo??

Re: Hiker Stupidity on Whitney
Marcus #50734 07/10/17 09:46 AM
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Wag Bags should be assigned a serial number attached to a permit. When Rangers encounter abandoned bags, the permit holder should be fined $1000 for littering, and automatically have a sh**head badge placed on their Driver's Licenses (like organ donors).

-Or- the bags be removed from the mountain and delivered, flaming, to the permit holder's doorstep.

It's a shame that both of those would cost so much in taxpayer money.


@jjoshuagregory (Instagram) for mainly landscape and mountain pics

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