Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion The Bear Facts

There seems to be a certain amount of nervousness or fear about bears. Here are a few facts about bears (well, a few of them).

The bears in the Sierras are the American Black Bear (which are not always black...might be brown or some combination of colors). They are not the aggressive types like the Grizzly bears found in Yellowstone. Black bears are basically timid creatures and will run away from people if given the chance to escape. They hate loud noises: like shouting, banging on pots and pans, and will flee.

Momma bears can become extremely aggressive if they have cubs and think you are a threat to them. Do not approach; back away slowly.

A word of caution to those of you who hike or camp with firearms: Do not shoot a bear! It isn't nice, and is very likely to get you killed by the creature you just popped with your little 9MM peashooter. Bears can take an incredible amount of punishment from a firearm and still have enough strength and anger left to destroy you.

Always protect your food by keeping it in a bear proof container. No, not your car, they can open car doors and/or break windows. No, not your ice-chest (I've seen bears throw full ice-chests again trees in order to break into them). Bears are very smart and have learned amazing burglar skills from their mothers.

Don't feed bears or leave food out for them. Human food is NOT GOOD FOR THEM! Their primary diet is natural vegetation, but will eat anything in order to pack on calories for their winter hibernation. No, bears will not consider you a food source...unless you've been dead for a few days and are starting to ripen.

Don't leave food in your tent or sleeping bag with you, unless you want a late night, unwelcome visitor who doesn't want to cuddle with you. Not even a Mars Bar? No!

Never approach a bear that has possession of your food! I mean, if you were stupid enough to leave your grub out in plain view, you deserve to have it sacrificed to Smokey. The bear in possession of your food is now in charge and might act to defend what he/she now considers to be "MINE!"

Here is a link to the Facebook page of my friend Steve Searles, the bear control officer for Mammoth Lakes, California:
https://www.facebook.com/SearlesBearWhisperer/

Did you notice the breaking and entering skills of the bears, and the stupidity of the humans?

Anybody have any bears stories to relate?

I was hiking from Tuolumne Meadows to Mammoth two years ago and came across a bear mid-trail maybe twenty feet ahead. We'd clearly, each of us, caught the other out. I looked at the bear. The bear looked at me.

This, I knew, was the time to act.

I reached into my pocket and drew forth the gleaming steel of my weapon of choice. Bringing it up, I uttered a silent prayer that this hunk of American-made metal, this apparatus of iron and wood, might just save my life.

With that thought, I began to blow 'Camptown Races' on my harmonica as off-key as I could muster. The bear, doubtless thinking me some kind of magic sound wizard, fled instantly.

I might have fled too! Only kidding. It probably sounded very strange to the bear and it wanted nothing to do with that alien sound.

No kidding, Bob, my harmonica has two purposes - keeping bears and close friends at a distance. If you can bear to hold your ear real close, you can hear Toots Thielemans turning in his grave, God rest him.

Funny you would have such a gleaming tool at the ready.

All humor aside, the bear likely would have run if you said Hi in a loud voice.

At Whitney Portal, people should know this: Those starting out in the dark early-morning hours are most often the victims of bears. The story is always that they set their day pack down while getting ready to hike, and the bear snuck up, grabbed the pack, and ran with it.

When bears are used to people you might have to be more persistent. My harmonica playing is bad enough but some yelling and banging can help get the job done.

I was fishing in Yosemite and my wife was on the trail with a live trout in a covered pan when a bear crashed through the brush toward her. She banged on the pan and yelled but the bear just stood up, sniffed around, then slowly turned around, somewhat reluctantly. It sauntered off but turned around again for one last look. It was more like begging than threatening, almost cute.

Sleeping in the back of my campershell pickup with the tailgate down in a Mammoth campground, we were awoken at 6am with a bounce of the truck. A very large bear had its paw on the tailgate next to my head. I yelled but he wasn't fazed much. The truck lurched when it took his paw off the truck and slowly moved on, making the morning rounds.

A co-worker was accosted by an aggressive bear in a Tahoe campground while they were eating dinner at the picnic table. He said they made lots of noise but the bear didn't budge. They retreated to their popup trailer and watched the bear feast on their food. I'm sure that bear was put down.

One night while camping in the Snow Creek area of Yosemite, my partner and I noticed two bear cubs climbing the trunk of the tree containing our food bag (before bear boxes were used). I shined my headlamp on the trunk above the lead cub, which scared them enough to cause them to slowly retreat downward. I followed their downward climb, keeping the spot of my light on the tree just above them. Apparently, the spot of light scared them into retreating complete out of and away from the tree. Of course, the smart little guys immediately went for easier pickings: the college boys nearby who had left their food out...then a night of chaos began as their momma joined in their feast!

o.O

No worries, just be smart and protect your food. That's all they want. I've never lost a crumb to a bear and I look back at my many encounters with them as life-long memories.

Things are much better since the 90's after major investments in bear boxes, locking dumpsters, bear canisters, and public education. Back in the day, this was not the case. The biggest baddest bear I've ever seen was in the mid-90s, standing in an unlockable dumpster, gorging on trash at Loon Lake, Tahoe NF. I took a picture from about 100 ft and the flash really pissed him off. It was the only time I really felt threatened by a bear. The next year he broke into the campground host's trailer (when they were gone) and that was it for him.

Bottom line: We can coexist. Follow the rules for food storage. If it comes down to it, defend your food, they can be deterred. If you lose your food, shame on you but it belongs to the bear - don't steal from the bear. Its not just about you, a fed bear is a dead bear.

Who still hikes with a 9mm? I usually pack a 2 3/4 inch S&W .500 loaded with 700 grain T Rex rounds. It'll stop an angry momma bear on meth & coke. Well that's what they tell me anyway. Seriously though, I usually have my pocket .380 with me because it's the lightest, but I don't actually carry it for protection in the backcountry. I have it because I think it's irresponsible to leave it in my vehicle while I'm away. It's usually buried deep in my pack or in the bear can if there's room.

I've ran into bears dozens of times while hiking. A few times they were just sitting on the trail eating berries or whatever bears eat when they aren't taking food from dummies. We just yell and ask them to move along and they always do.

A lot of my bear sightings have been at the portal campground when they were trashing someone's campsite.....................................DUG

Sounds appropriate for grizzlies and brown bears, luckily we don't have to deal with them in California.

The 2 3/4 barreled version was actually marketed in a bear survival kit. Includes an emergency blanket, a book about bear attacks and some other cool trinkets all boxed up in an orange case. The 700 grain ammo weighs in at over a 1/2 pound for the 5 rounds. Super hard to come by in California now and kind of pricey, usually selling for $2300 up (retail was around $800). I love the .500s and have 9 or 10 different ones. But all that fun is a little off topic - let's get back to don't feed the bears, the bears in CA mean no harm. Bears do shit in the woods without WAG bags though. ..................DUG

You're all set for backpacking in Alaska. The 2nd amendment says we have the right to arm bears, but I prefer to shoot them with a camera.

You're doing it right. My CCW of choice is a Glock 23, 40S&W, but not for animals.

I have been encouraged by local law enforcement to carry, even in the backcountry. Hmmm...think about that.

You might be aware that a couple of weeks ago two unarmed SAR folks were robbed at gun-point on the PCT somewhere near Tehachapi(?); had their wallets and credit cards taken. SAR was on their way to help an injured hiker. Still looking for the two HMAs who robbed them.

9MM? No, even a 40S&W with hollow point ammo will barely slow down a bear or lion. I've seen guys open carrying 9MM semis on the Bishop Pass trail. They were "afraid of wild animals". I cautioned them not to even consider shooting a bear or lion unless they themselves have a death-wish.

But you have Ranger training and many years of experience, right Bob? Law enforcement should not be making recommendations like that to just anyone who wants to arm bears or bear arms in the backcountry.

Anyone who considers carrying a firearm in the city or backcountry need competent, hands-on professional training, and lots of frequent, self-defense practice at the range. This is not a skill that ought to be learned from watching videos on the Internet.

If a gun owner must carry their gun, they should have a legal CCW permit and carry the weapon concealed, even in the backcountry. Showing the weapon openly is an ego-centric behavior, will freak some people out, and perhaps get the gun carrier in trouble with law enforcement.

Potential gun carriers need to ask themselves if they would be willing to kill another human being in order to defend themselves, their family or friends. This is a huge responsibility with the potential for serious legal, moral and psychological ramifications.

The best defense against bears or bad guys is situational awareness and avoidance of conflict, first and foremost.

I think you meant we have the right to bear arms.

Very well said.

I heard about the robbery on/near the PCT and that's the first time I ever thought about having my carry weapon more accessible on trail. It still ended up in my bear can on my most recent JMT section hike though.

Sadly, open carry is the only option for most folks. CA does not recognize any out of state CCWs, and a CA CCW can be difficult or impossible to get depending on which county one lives in. Luckily, my sheriff is reasonable to deal with on the subject.

Common sense and common courtesy will keep you out of a lot of bad situations.................................DUG

Maxpedition has nice belt mounted carry pouch that will hold one handgun and at least one extra mag. Rides well, even while wearing a pack, and it doesn't look like a holster. If asked, I tell people it's a first-aid kit. Oh gee, now everyone knows.

https://www.maxpedition.com/collections/...ant=36297719697

If you have a California CCW permit you can get the Arizona permit, which is recognized in Nevada and several other states.

You can get an AZ or NV permit without having a CA permit. The CA CCW is recognized in several other states as well. For the traveling I do, I can get by with just a CA and a WA (out of state) permit. But the fact is, the ONLY way you're gonna concealed carry in CA is with a CA permit. The app LegalHeat is pretty useful for all 50 states CCW quirks and reciprocity issues...................DUG

2nd Amendment, we have the right to arm bears or bear arms. Must not infringe.

The vast majority of hikers have no desire to carry a gun and don't want to think about some stranger camping near them in the woods with a gun. Please keep it fully concealed at all times.

Back to bears, I was in REI today and saw some pretty small Bear Assault spray canisters. If you think you might need a weapon to defend yourself against a black bear, these are a reasonable and effective option. I had one for hiking with kids in Yellowstone, but that was a Grizzly version, much bigger.

The problem is, in CA you cannot carry loaded AND concealed without a permit. Legally anyway. So please don't advise someone to break the law......................DUG

Not guilty. I don't believe my comments have been an encouragement to people to carry guns. Go back and read what I've posted.

California laws are very strict about this and proper training is required. No one should just jump into firearm carry without knowing the laws and doing what is required by law.

In California a CCW (concealed carry weapons) permit requires:

1) A valid gun ownership certificate. No gun shop will legally sell a handgun to anyone without the purchaser having passed a written gun safety examination and has passed a California background check. There is a ten day waiting period.

2) For a CCW, the legal gun owner must pass a State of California approved class. The class includes intense lectures about gun safety, California State laws, personal responsibility, and several hours of supervised live firing at a range. Then, there is a long waiting period while the State does another background check, which might take several months. If the person passes that background check, they are interviewed by a local Sheriff, who questions them about their reasons for wanted a CCW. If the Sheriff then approves, the CCW is issued to them. In California a CCW permit is good for two years, after which it must renewed...after taking a CCW refresher class that is similar to the initial class. Carrying concealed without a CCW permit will get a person a felony conviction and a lot of grief.

In Inyo National Forest the open carrying of a validly owned handgun is permitted, but should be holstered and in plain sight. Do not open carry one within 100 feet of a public road: that is a felony. Personally, I don't think anyone should open carry a handgun in the backcountry. Someone might freak out and report you, which can result in you being questioned by police in a manner you will not like. Get a CCW permit and keep that weapon hidden.

Carrying a handgun concealed without possessing a valid, up-to-date California CCW permit is a felony. Even if the gun is concealed in a pack or a bear proof container and the person does not have a CCW permit - it is a felony.

All that information might be enough to discourage most people from even considering carry a handgun in the backcountry.

????? I wasn't addressing you. That's easy to tell by the quoted material above what I wrote.

Concealed carrying without a CCW CAN or MIGHT be a felony, depending on the circumstances involved and the DA. It's considered a "wobbler" and can go felony or misdemeanor.

The process you outlined to receive a CCW in CA is mostly correct, but it does vary by each and every county and local city that issues CCWs. In some jurisdictions it's impossible to get a CCW, in others it can be done in a few short weeks. Many, such as mine, take up to two years. I was never interviewed by my sheriff, the man is much too busy for such things. He has issued "by direction" to his CCW unit. Most other large jurisdictions operate the same.

BTW - I not only hold a valid CA CCW, but I also hold a valid FFL and do consultant work at a local gun shop.

Again, my comments were directed at the "keep it concealed" comment that I quoted. While it may make some feel more comfy in the backcountry, concealed carry it is probably not legal in most situations (unless it's unloaded and in a locked container rendering it useless anyway). For a majority of visitors to the CA backcountry, open carry is sadly the only option. CA does not recognize out of state permits so that excludes all of the non residents. Getting a permit can be difficult depending on where one lives in the state. In my county, there are just over 2,000 permits, but well over 2 million residents. That's a small club. Only three cities in my county issue permits, but I don't think they do in any significant amounts. (I've never seen any published numbers and one only started issuing in the past couple months)

I'm no fan of open carry, but if someone feels the need to be legally armed, it's probably going to be their only option............................................DUG

Keeping food out of your tent cannot be overstated. I stupidly left a ziplock with about one M&M and one peanut in it in my pack in my tent at Trail Camp.

A marmot ate an entry hole AND an exit hole in the tent, ate through the pack, and took about twenty dumps on my sleeping bag, seemingly for spite.

I would carry concealed. Not for bears or bandits but for the marmots alone (read sarcasm).

Ugh. I hate marmots.

This is no laughing matter, but OMG lol, that shithead. Even leaving sweaty or foam things alone can be a problem: those brazen squirrels of the Grand Canyon don't just steal sandwiches from your hand if you look away, they will also create a hole in your tent to get to a foam football and proceed to rip it to shreds.

Well, football season is almost upon us...

Now you're giving me bad ideas. People I know who have sampled marmot meat say that it is very greasy. Otherwise, it could become a tasty backcountry food item.

They're merely gathering new bedding material...LOL.