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#51938 - 08/30/17 09:03 PM US 395 closed north of Bridgeport
SoCal Jim Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 22
Loc: Santee, CA
I know this is a little north of the Whitney zone, but... I drove from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe today and encountered a little unexpected detour. 395 is closed from Bridgeport north to the Nevada state line due to a wildfire west of the highway. The sparsely signed detour takes you on a scenic tour of western Nevada state routes, narrow two lane, of course. I was fairly lucky not to be stuck behind slow moving traffic too much. Car in front of me got pulled over in a 25 mph zone in a little rural community that screamed "speed trap." I mention this because I've seen no mention of it and neither Apple nor Google Maps show it. My notice was a lighted highway sign by Mono Village. California DoT has it posted.

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#51940 - 08/30/17 10:10 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SoCal Jim]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
That part of the country has few areas marked 25 MPH. They are either schools or what the locals call "downtown" despite the lack of buildings over 10 stories tall (or maybe even over 2).

Bing gives routings around the blockage without explanation. One of the alternates earlier tonight was through Bodie and Aurora. Bodie may have a speed limit below 25 MPH and those towns lack pavement.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#51942 - 08/31/17 06:31 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SoCal Jim]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
Its the Slinkard Fire 3,000 acres 0% contained and growing fast. I knew CA 89 was closed over Monitor Pass, my usual route to the Eastern Sierra. That's a really big chunk of CA 395 to close for this - all the way down to Bridgeport. They're escalating it to Level 1 and probably need the highway to bring in resources, plus there's not many East/West connecting roads in the area. The NV casino town of Topaz is evacuated but it's also close to the towns of Coleville (ranchland) and then Walker (tourism). There's also a military commissary in the area for the Marine's Mountain Division training off Sonora Pass.

Calfire Incident

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#51943 - 08/31/17 06:38 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Bodie, Bodie? Are you kidding us? No way! You guys are lost.

Just follow the posted detour signs. The detour southbound takes Nevada route 208, just north of Topaz to Smith and then 338 and 182 to Bridgeport. Northbound is the reverse: 182 from Bridgeport to 338 to Smith and then 208 back to US 395 north of Topaz. The road is not as fast as 395, but not bad and takes about an hour. I've done it, and my wife will be using the detour to get to Minden from Bishop this morning.

The much longer alternative is between Carson City to Bishop via 50, 95 and 6. Adds a couple of hours to the trip.



Edited by Bob West (08/31/17 06:41 AM)

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#51946 - 08/31/17 09:41 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
bobpickering Offline


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Many years ago, US-395 was severely damaged by flooding in the Walker River canyon. US-395 was closed for many months while they rebuilt the road and did all sorts of work to prevent erosion in future wet years. It sounds like the detour around the fire is the same one we had to use during the road repair. It only adds about five minutes to your trip.

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#51948 - 08/31/17 10:11 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Bob West
Bodie, Bodie? Are you kidding us? No way! You guys are lost.
...



We guys aren't lost Bob. And we're not kidding. We're just pointing out that the web based services like Apple Maps, Google Maps and Bing Maps don't fare so well away from active highways as they do in big cities. Trust in those services at the edge of the grid can be dangerous and the issue is worth a reminder when people reveal that they are using those services..

Sorry you couldn't follow the discussion.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#51949 - 08/31/17 12:23 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Oh, ouch! There are other road condition reports that are more reliable than things like Bing and Goggle Maps:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi
http://nvroads.com/
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5559/

It might just be possible that locals know more about local conditions than city folks (aka Flatlanders). Only kidding...of course. I realize that you are a very experienced mountain man, and I respect that of you.


Edited by Bob West (08/31/17 12:24 PM)

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#51950 - 08/31/17 12:27 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: bobpickering]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Exactly the same detour as during the great flood. With heavier than normal congestion on the road, the detour might add a little more than five minutes. I haven't timed it lately, but will ask my wife when she gets back from Minden.

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#51967 - 09/01/17 07:27 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
15 minutes.

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#51969 - 09/01/17 10:21 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Bob West
... There are other road condition reports that are more reliable than things like Bing and Goggle Maps:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi
http://nvroads.com/
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5559/

It might just be possible that locals know more about local conditions than city folks ...

Well, you just listed three examples of non-local sites that you think give good info. I agree.

I expect locals are like web sites, some know what's going on and some don't.

Originally Posted By: Bob West
Exactly the same detour as during the great flood.


I can't cite from memory like you so I'll have to ask. Isn't the "great flood" where that local, Noah, built a boat because a non-local told him there was no good detour?

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#51978 - 09/01/17 05:24 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
In January 1997 a record-setting flood along the West Walker River destroyed 10 miles of U.S. 395. It took 6 months to rebuild the road.

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#51981 - 09/01/17 09:31 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Bob West
In January 1997 a record-setting flood along the West Walker River destroyed 10 miles of U.S. 395. It took 6 months to rebuild the road.


It's cool that you have learned to fact check,but...

Originally Posted By: wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Walker_River
In January 1997 a record-setting flood along the West Walker River destroyed 10 miles of U.S. 395. This section of road was rebuilt in 6 months.


Not so cool to plagiarise.

Remember, Wikipedia is in the same scale as Apple, Google and Bing maps, only not professionally supported and nowhere near as good. It may have parts where it is as good as dot.ca.gov, inciweb.nwcg.gov and nvroads.com, but in other places it can be pretty poor. And you are responsible for the quality of what you choose to post, especially when you don't reveal the source.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#51983 - 09/01/17 10:10 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7225
Loc: Fresno, CA
That's a bit harsh, dbd. Wikipedia is as good as the people who contribute to it. Yes, it is a crowd-sourced information source, but I have found it extremely useful a number of times. I'll take a Wikipedia article over most other sources. So much so that I personally contribute $ to it every year. Maybe, Bob could have identified his source, but this is not a peer-reviewed or even a high school level term paper. Information shared here, no matter where it comes from, improves everyone's knowledge. Shooting the messenger is poor form.

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#51986 - 09/02/17 12:45 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Steve C]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2208
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
I read a story about Jimmy Wales, Wiki's (co)founder. Not able to find it, so it's probably apocryphal.

Apparently, Wales met a woman at a party and asked his personal assistant to find out everything about her - "but don't use Wikipedia", he was said to have stated.

In areas where I do have experience, I see that Wiki comes very close to factual truth. Politics & religion not so much.

I was "watching" a cricket game on CricInfo where the current 3 highest run-scorers were all playing. It was amazing to see the all-time run ranking table change literally seconds after a run or runs moved the player up a notch. Same thing goes for motor racing. I suppose some people need a life.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#51987 - 09/02/17 07:12 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: wagga]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
A properly cited reference would be about as long as the two sentences Bob posted. Who cares, its a simple fact that a section of CA 395 was destroyed in the flood of 1997 and today's detour is similar.

There was a really cool video taken from a CHP dashcam as he was the last driver through that section before it failed. I told the kids that same story every time I drove around that corner. I can't find the video, but it's pretty dramatic.

A tributary river near Walker also jumped its banks in that flood. My colleagues spent months getting it back into the original channel. I still have a lingering case of PTSD from emergency response in 1997. Working days and nights without sleep and watching levees crumble that I just drove over, ah the memories.


Edited by SierraNevada (09/02/17 07:14 AM)

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#51989 - 09/02/17 08:43 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
bobpickering Offline


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Originally Posted By: dbd
Isn't the "great flood" where that local, Noah, built a boat because a non-local told him there was no good detour?


The “great flood” on the West Walker River occurred in 1997. I saw the damage and drove the detour many times. The Biblical “great flood” never happened.

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#51991 - 09/02/17 09:06 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: bobpickering]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
1997 was the flood of record in most of Northern California. It was much greater than a 100-yr event in some places, but not everywhere. By comparison, high hazard dams are designed for a statistical recurrence interval of tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of years. Smaller low-hazard dams are designed for nothing less than a 1,000-yr storm.

Here's the 1997 data for the Walker River Basin USGS Report on Flood of 1997

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#51992 - 09/02/17 10:21 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Steve C]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Multiple sources have repeated the same information; especially from local sources, newspapers, radio, and first-hand witness reports. Mr. DBD seems a bit miffed after I called him out over his suggestion to take the Bodie road as a detour.

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#51993 - 09/02/17 10:31 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
There are still signs of damage in the West Walker canyon, showing the incredible height of the flow against the surrounding mountain slopes.

The married Marines stationed at Pickle Meadows had to drive long distances from their homes to the base. This is first-hand information from an NCO friend of mine who was stationed at the base as an instructor...not info from Bing.

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#51995 - 09/02/17 12:47 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Steve C]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Steve C
That's a bit harsh, dbd. Wikipedia is as good as the people who contribute to it.

No it isn't as good as the people who contribute. People with good intent have different viewpoints, applications and vocabularies for the same concepts and Wikipedia lacks an adequate method to resolve this. This is like the Blind Men and the Elephant problem:
https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-blind-man-and-the-elephant/

Originally Posted By: Steve C
Yes, it is a crowd-sourced information source, but I have found it extremely useful a number of times. I'll take a Wikipedia article over most other sources. So much so that I personally contribute $ to it every year.

I find it very useful too, but not to be trusted. Wikipedia itself requires citations for information sources. This allows a user to verify the quality, viewpoint and vocabulary represented by wiki content and interpret it correctly. As someone who follows these chains of reference, it is amazing how often the citation conflicts with or fails to contain the wiki content. Some contributers seem to prepare their content and then shop for a citation when required by Wikipedia. That Wikipedia has no ability to recognize these cases doesn't make Wikipedia useless, just a tool that needs to be used with caution. It does make me concerned to know when Wikipedia has been used as a source. I don't suggest not using it, just using it carefully

Originally Posted By: Steve C
Maybe, Bob could have identified his source, but this is not a peer-reviewed or even a high school level term paper. Information shared here, no matter where it comes from, improves everyone's knowledge.

I'm not concerned with where it comes from as much as with accuracy, correctness and completeness and how to determine them. That's what decides whether everyone's knowledge has been improved or not.

Originally Posted By: Steve C
Shooting the messenger is poor form.

The "shooting the messenger" meme refers to a time when literate nobles sent messages to other literate nobles in the hands of illiterate serfs. When you play with crowd sourcing, there are no more illiterate messengers with no knowledge of or power over the message content, everyone who participates is a literate noble and responsible for the content they present. I think your drawing a correspondence between Bob and an illiterate serf is poor form and inappropriate.

What we have here is a bunch of knowledgeable, well intentioned people how aren't familiar with dealing on the web.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#51996 - 09/02/17 04:13 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: dbd

What we have here is a bunch of knowledgeable, well intentioned people how aren't familiar with dealing on the web.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Really? We're all a bunch of newbie World Wide Web bumpkins. You picked a scrum with Bob and now you're insulting all of us.

I've run thousands of plagiarism checks and I would never ding one of my engineering students over two sentences of basic historical fact, regardless of where it came from. The Dean would laugh me out of his office. Bob even did a little editing.



Edited by SierraNevada (09/02/17 04:29 PM)

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#51997 - 09/02/17 09:10 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
Highway 395 is now open, according to Nevada DOT and Caltrans. Conditions are being closely monitored by NHP and CHP.

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#51998 - 09/02/17 09:18 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 779
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
My dad used to tell me to not believe everything I read in the newspapers. After a few years working in communications intelligence in the USAF and later in civilian life, I came to understand how right he was. The media, in whatever form it takes, is always to be regarded with suspicion. We are responsible for checking the facts as far as we are able, and then perhaps question our own assumptions.

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#51999 - 09/02/17 11:21 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: Bob West]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2208
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
"If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you do read the newspaper, you're mis-informed." — Mark Twain (Supposedly).
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

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#52000 - 09/03/17 08:40 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: wagga]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
Ironic that he said this under a fake name. His real name is Samuel Clemens(1).

(1) http://www.marktwainhouse.org/man/biography_main.php
PUBLISHED BY THE MARK TWAIN HOUSE & MUSEUM, HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT; ©2017, THE MARK TWAIN HOUSE & MUSEUM, 351 FARMINGTON AVENUE, HARTFORD, CT 06105 | 860-247-0998

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#52007 - 09/03/17 04:07 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
Originally Posted By: dbd

What we have here is a bunch of knowledgeable, well intentioned people how aren't familiar with dealing on the web.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Really? We're all a bunch of newbie World Wide Web bumpkins. You picked a scrum with Bob and now you're insulting all of us.

I made my statement in the context of a discussion of people who are too trusting of Wikipedia. I can't imagine applying it to "all" here. That is the kind of complete misrepresentation of my position that you have made here before. However, if you think my statement does apply to you personally: "If the shoe fits, wear it." Then if you still feel insulted, remember that the fit was your choice, not mine.

Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
I've run thousands of plagiarism checks and I would never ding one of my engineering students over two sentences of basic historical fact, regardless of where it came from. The Dean would laugh me out of his office. Bob even did a little editing.


I'd be happy to ask your dean personally if it is the position of his institution that "a little editing" is the appropriate response to and resolution of cases of plagiarism discovered in her/his institution.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#52008 - 09/03/17 04:22 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
SoCal Jim Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 22
Loc: Santee, CA
Jeez Louise, people. I'm sorry I posted anything about the 395 closure. Can we just put this thread (and unpleasantness) to rest?

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#52011 - 09/03/17 07:04 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: dbd

I'd be happy to ask your dean personally if it is the position of his institution that "a little editing" is the appropriate response to and resolution of cases of plagiarism discovered in her/his institution.

Why don't you show us a Dean at any college that would accuse a student of plagiarism for pasting 2 edited sentences about a common knowledge, recent historical event, with 1,000 possible sources besides Wikipedia. Maybe a 9th grade English teacher trying to make a point, or if this were a pattern throughout a paper, but not by itself. No way. And don't forget, this is a hiking forum, not a university.

Please chill out, Dale. Nobody is going after you, we just don't care about copying 2 sentences stating historical fact on a hiking forum.


Edited by SierraNevada (09/03/17 07:15 PM)

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#52018 - 09/04/17 09:22 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
RichardK Offline


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 81
Loc: East Coast Florida
While all of this discussion was going on, they opened the road.


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#52021 - 09/04/17 12:06 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: RichardK]
bruce Offline


Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 74
Loc: Novato, CA
That's good. I'll be going down it next Saturday on my way to Whitney. Live in the Bay Area so I have several options though (like going through Yosemite on hwy 120 or doing the end around via Bakersfield).

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#52022 - 09/04/17 12:24 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: RichardK]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: RichardK
While all of this discussion was going on, they opened the road.

You can check the local conditions by selecting the Slinkard fire at
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/state/5/

Two notes from there at noon today:
"Yesterday, Highway 395 was closed temporarily for fire suppression efforts."
so closures are still happening at times, and
"Highway 395 is open. Highway 89 over Monitor Pass remains closed due to fire activity. Motorists traveling on Highway 395 are reminded that there will be large amounts of holiday, fire, and Burning Man traffic. Please drive with additional care."

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#52023 - 09/04/17 05:52 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
CA 89 over Monitor pass is still closed though. Big fire on the other side of the pass at the 89/4 junction a couple years ago. Seems like this area burns pretty darn often.

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#52036 - 09/05/17 10:21 AM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
SoCal Jim Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 22
Loc: Santee, CA
I drove home through the area yesterday. Zero fire-related problems, just insane holiday (and Burning Man) traffic. The fire burned to the edge of the highway which effectively became a fire break.

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#52044 - 09/05/17 02:28 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: SierraNevada]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: SierraNevada
... Seems like this area burns pretty darn often.


Here's the current fire

















































And the area history






























































The last close fire was the 2015 Washington Fire. I had to wait until it was out to work on fish in Slinkard Creek that year.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#52046 - 09/05/17 02:52 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
dbd Online


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 200
Loc: San Diego
Some people just love to crank up the dynamic here: no response without escalation.

If someone meant to communicate that:
"we just don't care about copying 2 sentences stating historical fact on a hiking forum."
then the best thing to post after my last response to Bob would have been:
"We just don't care about copying 2 sentences stating historical fact on a hiking forum."
That would have led to a far different tone, but some people aren't satisfied by calm disagreement.

Instead we got the usual output of the SierraNevada drama engine:
1) Misrepresent
- pretend a remark about blind believers in Wiki is a remark about everyone on the site
- compare a post on a hiking web site to a student body/dean/school
2) Crank Up the Drama
- "We're all a bunch of newbie World Wide Web bumpkins."
- "The Dean would laugh me out of his office"
3) Fake Some Calming Reassurance
-"Chill out" "Nobody's out to get you"
-and in a ironic reversal: "And don't forget, this is a hiking forum, not a university."

It's as if someone were afraid that without his help our attention would wander from this hiking site to Jerry Springer or the news.

Dale B. Dalrymple

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#52048 - 09/05/17 05:10 PM Re: US 395 closed north of Bridgeport [Re: dbd]
SierraNevada Online


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1100
Loc: NorCal
Dale, did it ever occur to you that people are not after you, but they simply misunderstand your posts? You tend to include multiple quotes and subpoints that take a conversation into several directions. You have lots of information to contribute, but it gets buried in all that.

For example, go back over how you responded to Steve after he called you out for accusing Bob of plagiarism. You responded to Steve with a quote and reaffirmed your accusation. Then another quote and lecture about the history of the phrase "shoot the messenger." You also included quotes and complaints about Wikileaks. To top it off, you included a link to a poem about the blind man and the elephant. All that in one post can lead to confusion for others.

I'm not going to dignify your ridiculous accusations about me with a response at this time. Steve's probably too busy to babysit this thread, but most moderators would be telling you to chill out about now.

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