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Mountaineer's Route Questions
#55052 05/06/19 10:17 AM
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Two friends and I are planning our first trip up Whitney via the Mountaineer's Route next week. We're all experienced at climbing Colorado 14ers on snow. The recent Whitney trip reports have been helpful and I hope we'll see one or two more before we head up a week from Wednesday. I do have a few questions.

It looks like the trail crosses the North Fork several times on the way up to Upper Boy Scout Lake and I assume the creek is flowing high with the current snow melt off. If crossing the creek on snow bridges is not an option as recent reports suggest, is a wet crossing likely the only option at this point or are there bridges or jumpable narrow sections to get across the creek? Would bringing snowshoes, at least up to Upper Boy Scout Lake be a good idea?

We are planning to camp at Upper Boy Scout Lake and debating bringing 4-season versus lighter 3-season tents. Are the camping options around Upper Boy Scout Lake somewhat sheltered from the wind making 3-season tents a reasonable option there?

If the weather is good, following a successful summit of Whitney, I am considering a climb of Russell from Upper Boy Scout Lake the following day. Based on TRs I've read, this sounds quite reasonable later in the year when the slope up to the Carillon-Russell saddle is dry. Does anyone know if snow on that slope would likely help or hinder the climb and descent?

It looks like the trail passes under some pretty steep slopes below Lower Boy Scout Lake. Are there sections of this trail where the avalanche danger is high at this time of year? We're debating bringing avalanche beacons and shovels but would prefer to go lighter if the avalanche danger is not significant.

I'll appreciate any thoughts about the above questions.

Hoot

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55053 05/06/19 11:28 AM
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First, you may have already heard this, but class 3 in Colorado (at least per Roach) is easier than class 3 in California.

The trail below LBSL crosses the stream twice. You can normally carefully hop across the lower crossing. You should be able to make the upper crossing without wading, but there is water splashing from a small waterfall, so you probably won’t make it across totally dry. By the time you get there, the snow bridges and the avalanche danger will probably be gone.

You will have to cross the creek (N to S) at the outlet of LBSL. You may have to do some creative rock hopping, but you should be able to make it without wading. If you do have to wade, it should be easy. It’s wide at the outlet, so the water is neither deep nor fast.

I’ve always dayhiked or camped at Iceberg Lake, so I’ve never camped at UBSL. A three-season tent should be fine unless the forecast calls for high winds or snow.

Adding Russell before you hike out makes perfect sense. The hike up to the Russell – Carillon saddle will be on a moderate sandy slope. It’s south facing, so there shouldn’t be much snow. The route from the saddle to Russell will probably have some patches of snow that you can navigate across or around.

BTW, if you haven’t done Muir, it’s not too hard to hike down the main trail, take a short detour to Muir, hike back to Whitney, and then descend the Mountaineers’ Route. The detour to Muir has taken me as little as two hours, pushing really hard.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55056 05/06/19 02:29 PM
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Bob - thanks for the very useful info. I have heard CA class 3 is more like CO class 4. Sounds fun to me! I gather we shouldn't need a rope for most of the options above the notch.

It sounds like we should be okay without snowshoes. I'm okay with a little post holing, just not hours of it as I've done once or twice.

Yep, Muir is definitely in my sights if the weather is decent when we're up top.

Thanks again.

Hoot

Last edited by Hoot; 05/06/19 02:33 PM.
Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55061 05/06/19 09:46 PM
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Hoot, you don't need to cross the NFLP Creek twice before Lower B.S. lake. There is a route that sticks to the north side--I've done it 3x, once with my 11-y-o daughter. (she wasn't afraid of the exposure) This set of videos follows that route. Here are the pics with my daughter.

If you take it, you need to watch the videos several times, and try to memorize the several key spots, especially where you scramble up onto that "elephant ear" ledge.

The route joins the south-side route just past the waterfall Bob wrote about above.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55063 05/06/19 11:39 PM
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Hoot:

I spent my 1988-1992 vacations climbing the Colorado 14ers. I thought Roach overrated 18 of them and was correct on the others. The difference in ratings is real, but it’s not huge.

The guides always rope up for the Final 400 and I think they rope up for most of the chute. Many private parties leave the ropes at home, but others bring them for the Final 400. The Final 400 is typical Sierra Class 3 rock, with the added challenge that there will be some snow. Ordinary mortals solo it all the time, but a fall can get you on the evening news. I’m trying to be helpful here; I don’t want to scare you away or suck you in.

Some refer to the route Steve described as the “Rockwell Shortcut.” The last time I went that way, a ranger had gone to considerable effort to make impassable. There was lots of brush cut and dumped where the route once went. Rangers have also done a pretty good job of “establishing” the trail that crosses the creek twice. I prefer the Rockwell Shortcut, but I don’t know how hard the ranger(s) have worked at keeping it impassable.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55065 05/07/19 07:50 AM
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I would take a light rope/gear for the final 400 - "just in case".

As Bob mentioned, every year someone seems to make the evening news and/or interweb forums.

With mixed snow/ice, IMO it's too steep/slick for self-arrest, hence the high-speed exits for mortals lacking the requisite skills/gear.

PS Google 'sierra challenge' - I'm pretty sure Bob has participated in a few.

Last edited by Hobbes; 05/07/19 07:55 AM.
Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55066 05/07/19 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: bobpickering
The last time I went that way, a ranger had gone to considerable effort to make impassable. There was lots of brush cut and dumped where the route once went.

When did you go that way, Bob? When I went last in 2016, the way seemed pretty clear, with brush clipped out of the way.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Steve C #55067 05/07/19 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C

When did you go that way, Bob? When I went last in 2016, the way seemed pretty clear, with brush clipped out of the way.

RichardP showed me that route about 10 years ago. The next time I went (not sure which year), someone had partially cut many branches and then bent them so they pointed down the path through the brush. It was a real pain to get through the mess. At about the same time, rangers improved the more established trail with the two crossings. Last month was my first time on Whitney since January, 2014.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55069 05/07/19 11:11 AM
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Sounds like a great plan but here is some food for thought: you can actually link up the MR of Mt. Whitney and the East Ridge of Mt. Russell by doing them as a "loop" instead of going up and down the East Ridge. This way you get to see more in one trip. There are two options (the first one is much better IMO):

1) Climb the slopes from UBSL to East Ridge, summit Mt. Russell (the East Ridge is spectacular, way better than MR), descend via South face (there is a short steep class 3/4 section but it can be done even with an overnight pack. If you are OK with following the East Ridge without a rope, you will be fine down climbing the South Face ... or do a quick rap if the rope is avalable), hop over Whitney/Russell Col to Iceberg lake, up and down MR, and then back to your camp via normal route.

2) The same "loop" in opposite direction: MR first via standard route, back to Iceberg lake, then over Whitney/Russell Col, summit Russell via South face, down via East Ridge, and back to UBSL.

Both options can be done from UBSL camp in a day if you start early and move reasonably fast. Alternatively, you can bivy at Iceberg lake.

P.S.: Unlike MR, the East Ridge offers amazing views and pristine alpine granite with virtually no loose rock on the route proper, but lots of people bail approximately mid way up because of exposure.


Last edited by Anton; 05/07/19 11:32 AM.
Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Anton #55074 05/07/19 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Anton
Both options can be done from UBSL camp in a day if you start early and move reasonably fast.

Or you could start from the car long after the sun comes up, do the East Ridge on Russell, descend the South Face, climb the North Face of Whitney, trot down the trail to Muir, hike/jog back up the trail to Whitney, descent the Mountaineers route, and be back at the car long before the sun goes down. I didn’t mention that option before, because that’s not what Hoot was asking about.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55075 05/07/19 01:35 PM
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Why not do the Badwater run, then take a leisurely stroll up the MMWT?

Or, the 3x challenge. Hasn't Doug and/or Davey done that before?

laugh

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55078 05/07/19 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: bobpickering
Originally Posted By: Anton
Both options can be done from UBSL camp in a day if you start early and move reasonably fast.

Or you could start from the car long after the sun comes up, do the East Ridge on Russell, descend the South Face, climb the North Face of Whitney, trot down the trail to Muir, hike/jog back up the trail to Whitney, descent the Mountaineers route, and be back at the car long before the sun goes down. I didn’t mention that option before, because that’s not what Hoot was asking about.


Let me guess, having a bad day ?

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Anton #55079 05/07/19 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Anton
Let me guess, having a bad day?

Nope! Today has been a pretty good day. I had a productive lesson with my horse, and I’m looking forward to another perfect day for skiing tomorrow. As a bonus, BFR reminded me that the Russell/Whitney/Muir trip only took 10 hours. I was thinking it was a little longer. Thanks for asking.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55080 05/07/19 06:07 PM
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So Bob, what was your average Marathon time back in 2002 when you were doing 3 fourteeners in 10 hours? grin

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Steve C #55082 05/07/19 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Steve C
So Bob, what was your average Marathon time back in 2002 when you were doing 3 fourteeners in 10 hours? grin

In 2002, I was only running 5K’s and a few 10K’s. I ran Marathons in 2005-2007 until the Achilles’ injury ended my running. My last five marathons were 3:55:52 to 3:59:58.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
bobpickering #55085 05/08/19 05:40 AM
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Hi Hoot,

I can attest to Bob getting to and from Muir in under two hours - he did it when Carine and I were on the summit watching him!

To compare the MR with Colorado peaks - The Final 400 above the notch on the MR is sort of like a longer and slightly steeper version of the Crestone Needle gulley or the last part on Wetterhorn but with larger slabs.

The ramp/chute up from Iceberg lake, at least in snow, is on moderate angle snow which steepens a bit higher up, it does get softer sooner than above that since it faces east and gets the morning sun.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
nyker #55086 05/08/19 05:51 AM
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Thanks for the comparisons nyker. The issue I'm most concerned with now is the forecast weather. It looks like snow for the next several days and a -9*F wind chill on the summit next Wednesday morning. It's still early so hopefully the forecast will moderate between now and when we head up.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55088 05/08/19 06:11 AM
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Hmm, yea, climbing into a storm is not what you want to do up there.
Fingers crossed....but, if you are out there and bad weather comes in precluding you from getting up Whitney safely, maybe check out either Boundary Peak or White Mountain Peak, both in the White Mountains and possibly with better weather than the Whitney area.

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55089 05/08/19 07:16 AM
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Can you delay your trip by a week? Another thing to consider is going up too soon after (significant) snowfall.

I did a guided trip with a very established outfit. The lead guide had failed the week before because they ran out of time wading in waist deep soft snow in the gulley.

OTOH, just out of sheer luck, a week later we had perfect conditions. Just enough thaw/freeze + soft top sufficient for the same lead to declare MR+.

The final 400 had nearly 100% coverage. We were roped up of course, but I still remember the petrified look an independent hiker had. He was with a partner, and they had ropes, but not the necessary gear/skills. (For example, rope sort of wrapped around an exposed rock instead of proper belay gear.)

He mumbled something by me saying they hadn't expected that much snow. I guess they got down ok since there wasn't anything in the news. OTOH, this happened last year (on the MMWT):

http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads.php/topics/53120/Re:_Hiker_fell_on_Whitney#Post53120

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hobbes #55155 05/13/19 08:15 AM
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Unfortunately we can't reschedule the trip but we might move our summit bid up from this Thursday to this Wednesday based on the current weather forecast.

With all the snow this past weekend, would snowshoes be useful on the Mountaineer's Route, up to UBSL or Iceberg Lake? Or are snowshoes likely to be more trouble than they are worth on most of the Mountaineer's Route trail?

Hoot

Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hoot #55156 05/13/19 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Hoot
Unfortunately we can't reschedule the trip but we might move our summit bid up from this Thursday to this Wednesday based on the current weather forecast. With all the snow this past weekend, would snowshoes be useful on the Mountaineer's Route, up to UBSL or Iceberg Lake? Or are snowshoes likely to be more trouble than they are worth on most of the Mountaineer's Route trail?


Snowshoes don't work that well on angled surfaces. That's why it's hard when the snow hasn't consolidated. Have you ever checked out windy.com? I love it - click on the cloud overlay option and zoom out a bit. You can see the entire Pacific storm track is aiming right for California:

https://www.windy.com/33.678/-118.000?33.155,-118.000,8

So, as you've probably already checked, NOAA is saying tomorrow and early Wed is your best window. Thereafter, it's going to snow.

Honestly, and you probably don't want to hear this, but you might start thinking of alternatives. If you're going to be in the E Sierra anyways, then Mammoth is a good option for skiing or snowshoeing. Even though it will be snowing there as well, you could stay lower down near civilization to be safe:

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=37.6488&lon=-118.9779#.XNm9TY5KiM8

The other option is White mountain. No matter how you slice it, your trip is going to coincide with another winter (spring) storm warning.


Last edited by Hobbes; 05/13/19 11:56 AM.
Re: Mountaineer's Route Questions
Hobbes #55157 05/13/19 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hobbes
Have you ever checked out windy.com? I love it - click on the cloud overlay option and zoom out a bit. You can see the entire Pacific storm track is aiming right for California:

https://www.windy.com/33.678/-118.000?33.155,-118.000,8

So, as you've probably already checked, NOAA is saying tomorrow and early Wed is your best window. Thereafter, it's going to snow.


Windy.com is pretty cool. First time I've seen that. I've been looking at Mountain Forecast, which is nice for multi-elevation forecasts for the same area, and NOAA.

With risers, my snowshoes work pretty well on the uphill, but so-so on the downhill. And, of course, not so well in rocky areas.

We might try to hike up to UBSL tomorrow if we can get a permit and head for the summit Wednesday when our current permit begins.

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