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#56401 - 10/02/19 08:27 PM Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late
Ting Offline


Registered: 09/29/19
Posts: 3
Loc: TX, USA
I have Oct 12 Overnight Permit. Is it possible to me to start hike on Oct 13th instead?

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#56402 - 10/02/19 08:41 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Ting]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7926
Loc: Fresno, CA
Sorry, no. The one most important thing about overnight permits is that you MUST start on the day shown on the permit. You can stay more nights, and that doesn't matter. But starting on the date does matter.

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#56404 - 10/02/19 10:57 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
Gintaras Offline


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 6
Loc: Remote
So, technically the earliest time to enter is 00:01am on 12th and latest time to leave the zone is 23:59am?

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#56405 - 10/02/19 11:03 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
Gintaras Offline


Registered: 09/12/19
Posts: 6
Loc: Remote
Apologies, 23:59PM. Technically overnight permission gives right to stay within a park for 48hours?

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#56406 - 10/03/19 08:23 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Gintaras]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7926
Loc: Fresno, CA
Not sure where you get the 48 hours. Given that the "zone" starts at Lone Pine Lake, and there are no restrictions below that, technically, people can start before midnight and end after midnight. You just can't go past the Whitney Zone sign just past the Lone Pine Lake turnoff.

But you can't camp at or below Lone Pine Lake without an overnight permit.

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#56415 - 10/04/19 06:32 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
Ting Offline


Registered: 09/29/19
Posts: 3
Loc: TX, USA
Thanks everyone. It still doesnít answer my question. My permit is overnight permit on 12th. I have no plan to start overnight. Could I start my hike at 3am on 13 th and finish Whitney in one day.

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#56416 - 10/04/19 07:47 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Ting]
bobpickering Online


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 451
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Originally Posted By: Ting
I have Oct 12 Overnight Permit. Is it possible to me to start hike on Oct 13th instead?

Originally Posted By: Steve C
Sorry, no. The one most important thing about overnight permits is that you MUST start on the day shown on the permit.

Originally Posted By: Ting
It still doesnít answer my question.

What part of your question did Steve fail to answer?

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#56418 - 10/04/19 10:42 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: bobpickering]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7926
Loc: Fresno, CA
I can understand Ting's thinking but... although they don't like you doing it, you could Day hike on your overnight permit. But you would still need to start on the permit start date.


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#56422 - 10/07/19 08:25 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
Delkan1066 Offline


Registered: 08/17/17
Posts: 17
Loc: Minnesota
It's the same answer for "I have a day permit for Tuesday, could I hike on Wednesday instead?" or "I don't have a permit at all, can I still hike in the Whitney Zone?"

Sure, absolutely you could. It would be against the rules and if stopped by a ranger you could be fined and made to leave the mountain, but you could make that decision.

Sounds to me like you just messed up when you made your permit reservation. Or you couldn't get one for the day you wanted and you are trying to scoot your way around the issue.

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#56423 - 10/08/19 06:57 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
RichardK Offline


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 114
Loc: East Coast Florida
Originally Posted By: Steve C
you could Day hike on your overnight permit.


My understanding is that you cannot day hike on an overnight permit.

As for the day hike starting time, I once picked up a day hike permit and asked if I could start at 10PM instead of midnight. I assured the desk ranger that I would not pass the Whitney Zone sign until midnight. I was told that it would be illegal. The day hike permit is for midnight to midnight and all hikes start at the trailhead. Therefore, you must start the hike at the trailhead no earlier than midnight.

Before someone says you can hike to Lone Pine Lake anytime, I asked about that. The ranger said someone at the lake with a day hike permit would have to return to the trailhead to start their day hike at midnight.

If anyone has better, more recent information, please post it.

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#56425 - 10/08/19 10:06 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: RichardK]
bobpickering Online


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 451
Loc: Reno, Nevada
I didnít study the fine print when I got a day permit for Russell last week. It didnít matter, since I got a good nightís sleep and started up at 6:15 AM.

I seriously doubt that a ranger could write you a ticket (and defend it in court) because you started up at 10:00 PM and then entered the Whitney Zone after midnight. Even if Iím wrong, I think that the chance that a ranger would actually write that ticket is just about zero.

On the other hand, I have to ask why you would want to start at 10:00 PM (or midnight, or 2:00 AM for that matter). If itís going to take you more than 16 hours to walk up the trail and back down it, you probably arenít fit enough to dayhike Whitney safely. Sleep deprivation and total exhaustion make your mind and body function poorly, to put it mildly. Youíre much more susceptible to AMS, falls, getting lost, and just plain stupid decisions. There would be far fewer rescues on Whitney if people would hike more summits before attempting Whitney, and then get some sleep before starting up.

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#56426 - 10/08/19 11:16 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: RichardK]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7926
Loc: Fresno, CA
RichardK, occasionally, the desk rangers in Lone Pine give people a different story than we get from other staff in Inyo National Forest. I think your experience is an example.

I've been told by the Wilderness Permit staff -- the ones who answer the phones in the Wilderness Permit office -- that it's ok to hike up to Lone Pine Lake, no matter what the time of day, without a permit. That "no-permit-required" rule would surely override what the desk rangers tell people.

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#56427 - 10/08/19 12:10 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Steve C]
Delkan1066 Offline


Registered: 08/17/17
Posts: 17
Loc: Minnesota
I was told the same thing as Steve a few years back by the rangers at the office while picking up our permits. As long as we didn't pass the sign before midnight, we were fine.

We started at 10pm and got to the sign just after midnight.

As for Bob's comment, we had to start that early because we had to drive back to Vegas directly after our hike and preferred to leave a few hours of cushion before our plane left in case anything went wrong. Leaving at 10 was great. We didn't see another person on the trail until just before the switchbacks.

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#56429 - 10/08/19 02:07 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Delkan1066]
bobpickering Online


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 451
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Originally Posted By: Delkan1066
As for Bob's comment, we had to start that early because we had to drive back to Vegas directly after our hike and preferred to leave a few hours of cushion before our plane left in case anything went wrong. Leaving at 10 was great. We didn't see another person on the trail until just before the switchbacks.

That makes perfect sense.

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#56430 - 10/09/19 07:50 AM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Ting]
RichardK Offline


Registered: 11/06/09
Posts: 114
Loc: East Coast Florida
No doubt different staff will give you different answers to the same question. We started at 10PM because we were slow. Some are born with fast twitch muscles and some with slow twitch muscles. Mine are no twitch.

Bob Rockwell said that there was at one time a day hike permit with a "moon" stamp on it. It was good from 6PM one day to 6PM the next. It was intended for those who wanted to see sunrise from the summit. I don't hear anything about these. I assume that they are no longer available.

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#56432 - 10/09/19 01:18 PM Re: Could Overnight Whitney Permit Start Late [Re: Ting]
Kascadia Offline


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 24
Loc: PNW - Cascade Foothills
I think the larger question is if it is "ethical" to deprive someone of an overnight permit that would use it appropriately. If you're looking for a day hike permit, why don't you get one, they're usually available even in peak season. That being said, I understand "twists of fate". .although this would appear premeditated.

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