Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Any thoughts on foot preparation?

I've been doing the mandatory hiking to San Jacinto, Baldy, Wilson, the Santa Anas and putting in lots of milage, but this year, my feet have not handled it as well as last year. I tried to do a boot change earlier in the year and still haven't found the right mix. But, my legs feel great as well as my calves, hips, etc. My biggest problem has been some blisters during the downhills. My boots (both pair) are being worked on at a boot repair currently.

I was told that putting alcohol on your toes will toughen them up, but can dry the skin between your toes, causing other problems. Any thoughts?

Check this pic out below that I found on a search. They are NOT my feet. Warning!!!!! You may lose your lunch!

Man, THAT's disgusting!

Here are my feet at the end of a section of the JMT.


No matter what I do or what I wear, it seems that after three days, my feet get hot spots. My remedy is to use that athletic tape to stick a pad on the bottom front section of the foot, with a wrap going all the way around to the top.

Since I get welts from the adhesive on the top part of the foot, I help that by laying a piece of gauze on the top to keep the tape from sticking in the tender area.

I also run sections of tape from the bottom, up between the toes to the top section, but cutting out half the tape to make room for the toes. Then another layer of tape around the foot to hold down the toe-sections.

I also may need to tape up my heel, and sometimes wrap my little toes -- they often lose the toenail after the hike.

I am effectively building a glove for my foot out of athletic tape. If I do it before blisters actually form -- as soon as hot spots set in -- this method usually prevents blisters from forming. I don't remove the tape at the end of the day; just leave it on for the remainder of the backpack.

I have heard of people using duct tape in a similar manner. It sticks well, and the backing provides a slippery surface so it takes the abrasion, and the skin no longer needs to flex.

By looking at the photos, it appears not only does the person have blisters but also has "wrinkly feet" caused by exposure to moisture due to wet socks.

I have used a layer duct tape on the balls of my feet and the Achille's tendon area many times with no problems except for the residue the tape leaves after removing. Quick fix...WD-40!

Proper fitting boots are the key and keeping your feet dry (extra pair of socks) will assist.

I have used liners, but have quit using them. Merino wool is the preferred sock of my choice.

One other important option is the way you lace your boots!

I often put 30+ miles a day without issue. I use an Under Armour Military boot sock as a liner and a pair of thick merino wool socks. Sometimes I start a hike with a mid weight wool sock and change into thicker socks for the downhill. If you check my pack during a long hike you'll find more socks than food. I'll often rotate two pair of liners and three pair of wool socks, changing every few hours. Sometimes after a brutal downhill I'll need some motrin for the foot pain, but haven't hade problems with blisters or hot spots in awhile....................................DUG

that first picture looks like enough water damage to be called Trench Foot (a real medical term, otherwise known as immersion foot).

agree with DUG. keep feet dry with liners and wool socks, a change or two or three throughout the day if you sweat a lot.
Some liners are too slick or too thin and wiggle around, so they may make the problem worse by rubbing. Not just any old liner will help, must experiment.

Some people use underarm antiperspirant spray on their feet to reduce sweating.

In humid east, feet sweat inside boots and it never wicks well away because there is no evaporation gradient - the air is nearly as humid on the outside as the humid interior of the boot. In the glorious dry west, I have never had a wet foot scenario from sweating because the wicking is so noticeably superior.

Steve, ever try Benzoin to make tape stick? good stuff, and has a pleasing, addicting scent. Harvey

My first reaction to the original post was: Where do you get irritation and how extensive is it? Are blisters actually forming? Are they just hot spots? What have you tried already? Do you have inserts or just the standard insoles for the boots?

Are there already existing skin issues in the area? Warts? Callouses? Fungus?

I've been carrying a minimum of three pairs of socks on my last few trips (3-4days) and have used/soaked all three pairs. It's not just the sweating, it's the sloppy snow and stream crossings as well.

Have you recently waterproofed your boots? Never mind if they're Gore-tex or not, you'll probably want to spray the outside, again, due to the snow/slop conditions out there right now.

My friend Len swears by the socks with the separate toe slots. I tried a pair and hated them. Trial and error is key, don't try something new on the day of the hike.

As I usually do on these foot discussion thread, I plug the book "Fixing your Feet", usually available at REI or Amazon. Excellent ideas from an expert.

When you are losing toenails, your toes are hitting the front of your boots. The boots are either too small, or they are not laced tight enough. For long downhills, generally, one would lace differently than for other grades, to protect the feet.

I have yet to see a boot that comes with an insole that is worthwhile---they are all garbage! Look for an aftermarket insole, such as Superfeet, that will actually protect your feet.

I agree with Harvey that Benzoin is a secret weapon for feet. The full name is "Compound Tincture of Benzoin", which is NOT the same as "Tincture of Benzoin", which is not for skin, but a respiratory inhalant from years past. It forms a protective layer on the skin, and makes the skin VERY sticky to tape, so it will stay put. I use it a lot for foot repairs on the trail.

Additional references:

http://www.gorp.com/parks-guide/travel-ta-achieving-booted-bliss-sidwcmdev_053439.html

http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm

http://www.backpacker.com/gear/5245

I spent a couple of weeks a few years ago up at Vermillion Valley Resort, owned by a friend of mine, Jim. He is also an expert on foot and boot problems. The whole time we treated various JMT hikers who came in with horrible problems. Most could be made better, but not all. One lady had a blister consisting of the entire bottom of her foot, from her NEW boot. Yikes! Hurts to think of!

Ken mentioned black toe syndrome from toes sliding forward in too loosely tied and/or too short boots. Typically the longest (second) toe is affected but it can be all of them (!), The pounding inside the boot bruises the toe (blackens) and it later falls off. Also sometimes called tennis toe. Definitely a downhill runner/hiker/backpacker problem, too. Like hot spots and blisters, if you think it is happening, it is ( or already has). Stop and fix the problem.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Experience has taught me - the hard way - that hiking boots should generally be fitted larger than a typical shoe size. I currently wear a 10 or 10.5 dress shoe or trainer, but my hiking boots are a full size larger for the right downhill comfort balance. That's the tricky and very individual bit - finding the boot size that allows your toes enough room on the sustained downhills, but not so large that your feet slide back and forth, creating hot spots.

For myself, I've found that any small space variance can be made up by the right balance of sock/liner thickness and lacing style. I lace normally going any direction but downhill. Before a sustained downhill I re-lace, bringing the laces over the tops of the uppermost speed-lacers from the inside, then tying tightly underneath the lacer. This seems to keep my foot seated in the heel of the boot and prevents the dreaded toe-jam.

Like DUG, extra socks and liners are my 11th essential. Change early, change often. On a long hike the outside of my pack looks like a tenement, with all the flopping foot garments. Lots of air and as little moisture as possible. Hiking in the humid South taught me that lesson long ago. Since I've done these things religiously, I've had zero blisters or accordion-toe problems.

Feet and footwear are such an individual thing, though. If the most common foot/boot remedies aren't working, a trip to the podiatrist may be the least painful/expensive way to go. Those feet are everything to a hiker - not getting it solved is the only unacceptable course.

The other thought I had, Joe, is that I know you typically dayhike with a lighter pack, but have been carrying a lot more weight on your training hikes the past few weeks to prepare for our overnight trip up Whitney next week. That extra weight can subtley change the dynamics of your feet and boots. Has this issue cropped back up just since you added the additional weight?

A bit of a tangent - am no expert on feet, but am always a bit startled to see feet where the great toe isn't the longest as it is in my family.

If the toe box is adequate, the way to prevent toe bang is to make sure the laces over the instep are tight enough to lock the heal in the boot. Sometimes the fit of the boot is such that the foot continues to slide forward regardless of how tight the laces are made. If this happens, sometimes a minor heel-lift will fix the problem. If it doesn't - the boots will probably never fit properly.

I appreciate the feedback. I probably should have just stayed with the boots I had been wearing, but I wanted boots that weighed a little less. I have not paid much attention to how well the laces are tied, but I will do that now. My foot problems don't seem real bad as compared to some, but I did get the black toe and lost my nail twice. It did concern me a bit as when I got melanoma, it was under my thumb nail.....and yes, I had my oncologist look at the toe. He told me it was from hiking. In the past, I've really never had blister problems, but have had them in different places on each hike, the worst was the last hike with one about 1 1/2 inches under my big toe. That was easily the largest I've had, but it didn't hurt. I also had two on the top of a couple of toes. My boots are being worked on currently and the guy working on them did tell me the importance of how I lace them.......so we shall see. Thanks again.

One other observation, and the fellow working on your boots may mention this - you can change the tension on your laces by doubling them. For example - if you need a boot with a laces snug thru the instep, then double them over the instep. The friction of one lace on top of the other tends to prevent it slipping. Above that point, you can have them looser, if necessary for comfort.

I've always found duct tape useful for hot spots. It's slippery, and since friction is the second cause of blisters/hot spots, it will absorb the effects of movement rather than your skin. I put several wraps around my trekking poles. Some do the same thing on a Nalgene.

Second toe is often longer. There are many links, here are 2 that I just Googled up
Hallux
Podiatrist

Whenever examining feet/toe shape or anatomy, Xrays, boot fitting, etc, the actual anatomy is best learned with weight-bearing, ie, standing up.

And for what I hope is a photoshopped image:
         
Uploaded with ImageShack.us]toe[/url]

That would pretty much be a lifetime of open-toed footwear . . .

She drives barefoot, and when she is cut-off...

you assume its a she

Wrong metatarsal...

That's an obscene gesture!

Not doubt you're right - it's just that it doesn't run in my family so I'm unaccustomed to seeing it.

In my experience in Track and Field, this was called Morton's Toe, 2nd toe longer than the Big Toe.