Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion The Windows

Edit: subject changed from "What happened to Mr. Brunette?"
(Let's give the topic some rest ...two more weeks)

The loss of Wade Brunette certainly struck a nerve in the Mt. Whitney community. But, I am yet to see any explanation of how he actually came to his end. According to Richard Piotrowski's Smugmug gallery for his October 31 hike, Mr. Brunette's body was found at the base of Mt. Muir. Since he took the much discussed pictures of the recovery, I assume that this location is correct. To me, this fact means that he fell from one of the "windows". He was described by the last group to see him as laboring and breathing heavily. I can't imagine that he boulder scrambled up to the ridgeline in that condition. That leaves only the "windows" as a place where you could fall to the east. Then, there is the matter of the abandoned pack. The coordinates of N 36 33.8 W 118 17.6 are at the "point" of the first switchback past the John Muir Trail junction heading towards the summit. What if Mr. Brunette decided that the weight of his pack had become too much. He stashed it a bit off trail so it would be out of sight and continued towards the summit. He picked the "point" of the switchback because it would be easy to recognize on the way back. Unfortunately, he did not return.

This is all conjecture on my part, but it seems to fit the facts as I know them. Or I could be totally off base. Any thoughts?

That is about as good of a guess that anyone can make. There has been no information released and no one here that I know of has any inside information.Someday they may release an official report from the supervisory agencies.All we can do is conjecture.I am sure he was suffering from some degree of AMS and it will be hard to determine what caused what sequence of events to lead to this tragedy.

I would urge we not speculate on the cause of death. Most likely an autopsy will be performed, and those results are often made public. In addition, SAR units sometimes write up accidents reports assessing the probable causes leading to the accident and make those public. At this point it's a bit early even for trained SAR staff who were onsite to create likely scenarios, much less outside observers. These accident scenarios have a pattern - let's wait for the process to play itself out.

No one has speculated on cause of death yet. My speculation of cause of death will most likely be due to injuries from a fall.I think it is reasonable to assume that. I don't think that is wrong to assume or disrespectful of the family or the continuing investigation.
I think what is being asked and one can't help but speculate is what events may have lead up to the ultimate tragedy.I don't think it is wrong to wonder and even talk about what may have happened. We must make sure that we qualify what we say with this is my speculation and I have no personal knowledge of this.What posible harm can come from wondering what happened?
It ultimately may help us be able to prevent someone else from the same tragedy.

Rod - let me clarify a bit. I certainly agree that discussing accidents is most beneficial - once we have the facts. Once we know all the details of how he passed, they'll be an opportunity for thoughtful, respectful discussions of how others (including ourselves) might be able to avoid a similar situation. But, my experience on other BB's is that speculation immediately after an injury/rescue almost invariably is inaccurate to the actual causes, and can be hurtful to the individual/family. Again - such a discussion is premature, in my opinion.

I have my own thoughts about the cause, too, but I think I'll wait.

Wade's daughter Michelle last wrote in her blog here:


The blog also says they're having a memorial Nov. 22. Maybe we should hold off until after that...

Without speculating about the possible impact of wind on Mr. Burnette -

The wind on Sunday in the Indian Wells Valley where I live (about an hour south of Lone Pine) was westerly with regular gusts in the 30's, and on Monday increased to the 40's and sometimes higher. Winds in the valley are not always indicative of what conditions are in the Sierra, in my experience.

I've not participated in any discussion re: the chance of wind blowing someone through the windows. However, I have frequently hiked in windy conditions, and know that wind speeds between 30-40mph will buffet you around, and frequently cause staggering. Knock-down speeds don't usually occur until the 50-60mph, and anything much above that makes standing/forward motion very difficult. Have been knocked done by wind many times, and it's dangerous and demoralizing.

Personally, I'd never go anywhere near the windows on Whitney in 30-40mph westerly winds unless it was an emergency, and then only on my hands and knees. Depending upon the wind direction, one might also have to contend with the Bernoulli effect near the windows.

RIP Wade . Yes we can wait to discuss.I'm glad he didn't wonder around lost for days and glad he didn't suffer.God Bless the family and thanks to all SAR personnel. We are so lucky that they are there for us in a moments notice.

I do not wish to discuss Wade, but I would like for someone to explain/expand on what "The Windows" are, please. I need to understand where they are, how they are situated as per Mt. Muir, how they are a part of summiting Whitney, and what is "the fear factor".

I have been to Thor, but never climbed Whitney.

b

Bee - The "windows" are a series of spots between the John Muir Trail junction and the summit where there are steep drop offs on both sides of the trail. The west side drop off is, maybe, 60 degrees to vertical. The east side is essentially vertical. The trail here is about 6 to 8 feet wide - as wide as an average sidewalk. These spots, three or four in number, are like 10 feet long. They generate a certain amount of fear among newbies, but are really nothing to worry about. However, if you wandered close to the east edge and stumbled for some reason or got hit by a sudden blast of wind, you could go over the edge.

Thank you, Richard. Does this area become a problem/obstacle during a winter/snow traverse?

b

Bee,
The windows themselves are not much of an obstacle when traversing the ridge in winter. Instead, what becomes trickier are the traverses around the many chutes that line the ridge running to the west. It is steep snow, occasionally without much purchase, and a long ride down to the shore of the Hitchcock Lakes.
I don't have the best pics: you might check GigaMike's albums.
-L

Bee,
The Windows area has a wider path than the Devil's Backbone Trail on Mt. Baldy--you've probably done that one. It didn't bother me a bit (in summer conditions), but I think it could be very trecherous when icy/snow, freeze/thaw conditions. The exposure (down) is even steeper than the Devil's Backbone...a bad ride to the bottom. You don't want to use that "E" ticket (there...I'm dating myself).

Karen, actually Bee is a central Cal person. Yosemite is more her back yard.

Opps...should look at the geography. Mt. Baldy/San Antonio is sort of a So Cal Pilgrimage. Well Bee, the offer's out there...when you're training up for Whitney, Mt. Baldy is a great way to do it. Until (or if) we get rain/snow, the Devil's Backbone trail's a good one--late Spring too--hotter than hades in the summer. Although I'm a bit jealous that Yosemite is so close for you. Send me a PM and we can arrange it if you can make your way to the 'hood.

The elevation is nowhere near Whitney, but the ridge of Cloud's Rest (in Yosemite) is only a few feet wide towards the summit, so I have experienced a little of what it is like to hike on a narrow path (sans the dramatic chutes, etc.)

B

PS, I will let you know when I am heading to your neck of the woods, Karen!

Bee,

If you can do that short but narrow section of the ridge as you are about at the summit of Cloud's Rest (coming from the east, that is), then you should have no problem with any of the windows on the Main Trail of Whitney. I've done both. I actually was more cautious on that small section of Cloud's Rest than I ever was anywhere on Whitney (summer hiking conditions assumed).

CaT

Bee,
Bob R took some pictures of the main windows with a trekking pole lying across the trail for perspective. Unfortunately, he lost his original online photo album and I don't remember if he restored any to his Flikr collection.

Fred

Yes, CaT, I came up from Sunrise Lake Trailhead-- it gets pretty skimpy up there.

Fred, I will ask Bob R about the pictures.

b

Bee,
I found them in his Flikr album In Transit. See the image at http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/2440472678_57b7258fe8.jpg

Better yet, just post his image here. Thanks Bob R!



...well, I see this post jumped to a new page.

Looking at the picture, it looks more intimidating than I ever felt when I hiked that point. I think it is the perspective, looking down, so you can see the left side falling away so dramatically. ...Really -- it is just not that bad.

Fred, you shulda never sent me to a Bob R photo album -- it's a good way to kill half the evening!

Thanks for pointing the direction to the "Windows" pix -- really, I had no idea that the Main Trail had such interesting terrain!

(I need to get over my impression that it's a casual walk-up to the peak

b

This is the winter picture I think is significant on the backside.As Laura said it isn't the windows to worry about in a winter accent it is the pitch of snow.

I am really afraid of looking over ledges and I did not find the windows scary.

Some time ago I think it was Bob R. who posted an aerial view of the windows from the backside of the Mt. Whitney crest, looking east.



Seven windows are marked in the photo.

Here are the locating peak names for each of the windows, going left to right:

1. Mt. Whitney -- Keeler Needle
2. Keeler Needle -- Crooks (Day) Needle
3. Crooks (Day) Needle -- 3rd Needle
4. 3rd Needle -- Aiguille Extra
5. Aiguille Extra -- Aiguille du Paquoir
6. Left (north) of Aiguille Jr.
7. Aiguille Jr. -- S'brutal Tower

There is one more to the far right, out of the photo, between S'brutal Tower and Mt. Muir.

If I missed something here, perhaps Bob R. or someone else could let me know.

Thanks, Wayne. It is amazing how steep the slope looks from that perspective. It isn't nearly that bad when you're there.

The picture is cool, because you can make out the trail at the right most window, and then a good third of the way across.

Not all of those windows are anywhere near the trail.

Thanks, guys, SO much for answering my question so thoroughly!!

Wayne, we can always depend on you for some of the best compilations of data (I have collected some of your maps,charts, etc -- maybe you will send me a PM with the switchback map, 'cause I never grabbed that one)

b

Bee

When are you going to do a winter ascent of Whitney...ahem - without us? (crossing my arms and harrumphing)

Summer crossing is pretty much a breeze (no pun intended) easier than the e-ledges. Each time I go over them I think - dang, these aren't that bad...but then, I like the windows - they're a great rush.

For some unknown reason people have taken to peeing off the windows edge & although I love to look over the edge, I hate the smell.

Oh NO NO NO -- I don't do Whitney without my posse!! It is the scientist in me that compels me to gather information about things I may do...5 years from now (never too early to start preparing..!) Ask Bob R. about my incessant queries and info gathering -- he is likely to roll his eyes (maybe not; I can't see Bob R. rolling his eyes)

I am preparing for that first ascent already -- just got off the stair master!

Pretty soon I will start haranguing Steve C about permit "strategies" for that anticipated first summit...!

(you & Mousie & Moosie will get a gold embossed invite *when* I get my date(s)

b

Hi Bee, The "windows" aren't bad at all. On my first summit last month, there were many other parts of the trail that I thought were scarier. Here's a pic of me (at the bottom of the pic) in the exact area of Bob R's pic. You can see, it's not bad at all. In fact, I don't even remember passing that "window" on the way back. Please keep us informed of when you go. And when you do pass the "windows", lean to the West!

p.s. I don't like the backbone on Baldy.

Nice picture! It gives me a much better perspective on the steepness, width of the trail, etc. Nothing gives me a better feel for the hike in general than these great "specific area" pics. REally -- no guidebook on the shelf (and I am staring at too many of them right here) has given me a more well-rounded commentary on the upper part of the trail than what I am getting right here.

I always thought that the trail was unmistakable from A-Z as far as not getting lost, but now that I read through all of the proposed signs, I get that little twinge all over again (Do I have enough maps? Have I read up enough? Have talked to enough people?) I don't believe in dialing up a GPS and blindly following it (I don't even own one) Rather, I must KNOW where I am going. I will have my "posse" with me, so no fear on that level

Gold Embossed invites waiting to go out.....

b

Bee - A fellow named Hike Along Pete sells videos of the entire Mt. Whitney trail from an Ebay store. He walked the trail with a camera. He has a one disc "best of" or a six disc set that covers every inch of the trail. If you want to know exactly what it is like, then watch these videos. His store is at:

http://stores.ebay.com/HikeAlongVideo

quillansculpture
Great shot.That is the hardest section physically and mentally on the entire Main Trail IMO.You have been to the summit,experienced the emotional high of that summit, and you head back for what should be all downhill. But NOOOOO you have to regain the altitude you gave up coming down the backside of Trailcrest.You are saying I have to climb up again? You are tired and you realize the sign at the trailhead that says the summit is only halfway is really really true.

Hey Rod, I KNOW you!!! Yea, that is a hard place to think about going up on your way back from the summit. I am honest when I said I don't even remember the "window". Looking up at that huge granite stairway in front of you after you've exhausted yourself on the way to the summit is intimidating enough to make you keep your eyes on the trail, just a few feet ahead of you.

Bee......you think you have tingles now? Just wait till you see the Summit Hut that Rod is touching (in the pic next to his user name.) I've never met Rod, but he and I shared the ""touching the Summit Hut Experience" after going though cancer. The experience can be overwhelming and you will remember it your entire life.

Rod, can't wait to meet you.
Bee, can't wait for the invites :-)

OK I have thought about it all day. I think it is time for the Whitney Hikers Association to think about their own group hike.Probably will have to be spring or early summer.That would motivate me to get back to my training. After 4 straight years of regular rigorous training I have taken a break and lapsed into sluggery.I have only met personally Steve, Laura and Dave(wagga). Many others I feel like I have known a long time but never have met.

Rod, DON'T lapse into "sluggery"! It's so baaad -- Whatever you did to stay in shape, get back into it. The sooner the better, because it will be easier to jettison whatever you might need to.

Off to the gym!!!

We could do a group hike.... and we could expand our range and do something outside the Whitney Zone, too. One of my favorite places on the east side is Thousand Island Lake.

Actually I haven't totaly fallen into sluggery.I am still very physically active and in decent shape but I am not running stairs or hitting my own (shame on me) gym.Hopsports also has a 11,000 square ft state of the art training facility. NO EXCUSES.I am ready to get at it again.I am willing to hike anywhere.

I have started a very serious training program to aid in my success for next season's goals. Currently, I am doing pull-ups and a myriad of other upper body maneuvers. For trunk strength, I am doing seated rows and millions of sit-ups. Lower body is alternating running and Stairmaster.

If anyone has any more suggestions, feel free to add.

All of this in hope to view "The WIndows" next season (nice wrap, eh?)

b

Rod:

Get back to it. Don't make me come out there.

-L

OK I would hate to have a moose come down and kick my ass. Tomorrow I hit the stadium stairs.

Bee, Laura can attest to this. Core training is KING.Get a physio ball and start with crunches and back extension strengthening.

Rod -

To risk the obvious - why don't you just go hiking? as opposed to doing stadium stairs? The desert ranges - Inyos, Panamints, Cosos, etc are great places for winter hiking. Some of the best hiking in SoCal is in DV, and it's just cooling down enough now to make it sane. And there's lots of peaks and hills within an hour of Santa Clarita.

And Bee - you asked for suggestions - I don't know where in Northern CA you live, but if you want to get in shape for hiking - why don't you just hike? So-called "core work" is fine, I suppose, but don't over-analyze this - nothing puts you in shape for hiking but hiking. If you want to be in good shape for Whitney, then do 2-3,000' of elevation gain/loss on the weekends between now and you'll have few problems making the summit or any other 14'er.

Kevin -- I hear you, but I have always felt that being a weekend warrior was never quite enough for keeping in shape, generally speaking. I work out every other day no matter what goals I have set for myself, so I thought that I might as well tailor the workouts towards a specific activity.

B

(BTW, I kind of agree that hiking isn't very technical, thus,I agree that if ya wanna hike.....than go hike!)

I do hike Kevin. I just have this thing called work during the week. I do my cardio work outs 3 times a week in the AM before work.It is too dark in the AM before work to run the nearby hills and too dark after work. My local Jr. College has lights on at 5:30 AM. I like running stairs at my local Jr. College as oppossed to treadmill or track running for lots of reasons.It is outdoors, it is less pounding on my knees and back and it is the best workout I can get in a short time frame.45-60 minutes running stairs is an amazing workout.I then work out at my own gym a couple times a week also.I am off track for the first time in 4 years but tomorrow AM the train rolls again.

Rod, I'll be thinking about you! I started doing something called HIIT, High Intensity Interval Training. I'll do the stairmaster hard for 15 minutes and then jump on the weights and do chest or triceps (whatever I didn't do last) for about 10 minutes. Then I jump back on the stairmaster and do it hard again. Then back to the weights. Sometimes I'll slow it down and then go as hard as I can for 60 seconds. It just kills me, especially if I do the entire hour of stairmaster in 15 minute intervals.
My problem is, it's really tough.....and then I want to eat everything when I get home :-) In the two weeks I've done it though, my legs feel stronger.
Today was my day off completely. Yea, and my kid made brownies!

Sounds like a tough work out Joe.That sounds like a circuit work out.I do a similar type where I use special isokinetic resistence machines that work on fast twitch fibers. I do a 45 second set as fast as I can.Then I switch to another machine and do another 45 second set. So I go from a chest incline bench, to a military bench, then a arm curl machine,leg extentions/leg curl,torso twist,leg squat,etc.I repeat this circuit 3 times.Then it is physio ball for core strengthening and finish off with stretch bands and some easy yoga. We have to get at it don't we? Use it or lose dang it.

Wait a minute Rod! I thought you had fallen into sluggery.

And now you're talking about all the workout things you do. Makes my 3x per week look ...weak.

Yes Steve that has been my work out for the past 4 years. Did I mention I have taken a break? Tomorrow I run the stairs. Tuesday it is back to the circuit training.You and Laura were enough of the push I needed to start up again.I have been procrastinating and feeling guilty.Now It is back on.Heck if we have a group hike I don't want to left in the dust crying like a baby.Besides I promised DUG if he needed me to come get him in the back country I would do it.There is gonna be some pain this week.

Bring some ice cream when you come on in............................................DUG

Hey, wait a minute. That's MY trick...

So Rod, You are telling me that crying like a baby isn't normal? Man, how am I gonna tell this to my wife when I'm asking her to slow down.

OK I didn't hit the stairs but I did get a 30 minute walk and some core work in. It is a start back to my regular rigorous workouts.Joe crying like a baby is OK in my world.I am actually in better shape than I thought I would be.I certainly am not in prime shape.Tomorrow it is either stairs or circuit work out.

Rod, staying in "prime shape" is not a goal I can aim for. I just don't see how anyone with a life outside the gym could hope for that. Life has to many other good things to enjoy.

But staying in "good shape" is what I try to maintain. Then when a big hike is near, I can increase the workout frequency or intensity without making any huge changes.

Don't kill yourself with the workouts. If you do, you will probably quit after a few times.

I hear you Steve. By prime shape I don't mean training for a big hike or 15 rounds with Tyson.My work out goals are just to keep in good cardio shape,sustain good muscle tone, maintain joint movement and flexibilty. My workouts are only 45-60 minutes per day, 5 days a week. It is enough to keep me feeling good. I had worked out 3 years before I ever even considered climbing Whitney. When I decided to climb Whitney I added an extra day of stair climbing so I was working out 3 days a week in the gym doing circuit training and 3 days running stairs. Crazy thing was that when I was training 6 days a week hard, I was the heaviest weight I had been in many years. Yes some increased muscle tone but I just ate too much justifying it cuz I was working out so much. If you see my pictures on Whitney in 2007 I was 4o lbs heavier than I am now.
In 2008 I went back up Whitney with 30 lbs shaved off my pack weight and 40 lbs on my personal weight. It is a lot easier to climb Whitney with 70 less pounds unless your name is Laura.

Actually, Rod, funny you should mention the weight thing. I remember when I climbed Whitney, I had spent the previous two years shaving weight off my own bod. When I put the pack down for a break at Lone Pine Lake, I had the revelation that I was now able to take all that weight (I had lost between 50-60 pounds) ON and OFF my body at will.

So, no matter what the pack weight, I still smile about that. Especially since I've been at the same "fighting weight" for the past 8-9 years. (Well, except for the winter coat last year, but I'm not gonna let THAT happen again!)

-L

Both weights (pack and personal) can be reduced. It is a matter of choice. It was certainly easier to remove 30 lbs off my pack than it was to lose that weight off my body.
The one point I forgot to make was that I didn't lose weight working out. I only lost weight dieting. F'ing calorie reduction.