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Planning first Whitney Hike
#6961 08/30/10 09:57 AM
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Hi Everyone!

I have lurked around the forums for the past week or so, and thought i would finally post some questions i had.

In the past year myself, and a group of friends have gotten into hiking, and go more or less every weekend here in southern California. Nothing too crazy, most notable thing we have done thus far has been Mt Baldy.

Anyways, I want to plan a trip next summer for Whitney, and had some questions i was wondering if i could get some help with?

1. What are opinions of doing the summit in 1 day vs 2?
2. What kind of physical shape should most people be in to attempt it?
3. Any suggestions on how to train for hiking up to the summit?
4. If i have 6-10 people wanting to do the hike, what do you think the best way is, planning way ahead of time, to secure Permits? It seems it can be a bear.

I think those are the main ones on my mind for now. Thank you everyone who replies!

-David

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6964 08/30/10 11:26 AM
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Sublatum, welcome to the board as well as the wonderful hobby of hiking. You're in a great place to take advantage of some of the best hiking the US has to offer.

You'll get lots of opinions on a dayhike versus multi-day. I've done both and prefer the multi-day since you have the opportunity to enjoy yourself a little more and appreciate the scenery and surroundings longer. Hauling more weight the first and last 6 miles is the one big downside. First time Whitney hikers may find this easier overall than doing the one-day "death march".

The big thing here, though, may be the expense. If you and your friends just recently got into hiking, you may not have the gear to backpack successfully. You can spend some serious bucks on packs, sleeping bags, mattresses, stoves, cookware, filters, etc when you are keeping an eye on weight.

For training, you have peaks there in SoCal tailor-made for Whitney training - Baldy, San Jacinto and Gorgonio. Hike these peaks as often as you can. Concentrate on as much elevation gain as you can, and worry less about the mileage. You'll face 6150 feet of virtually uninterrupted uphill hiking on Whitney over 11 miles. Simulate that as much as possible and your legs will be fine for Whitney, assuming you spend time acclimating to the elevation once you're at the Portal.

The toughest part may be securing permits for a group that size. Read the "Orientation Notes for First-Timers" on this site and be sure to enter the lottery in February. If you can select weekdays for your group, versus weekends, your chance of snagging permits goes up. Be as flexible as you can with dates. If you get skunked in the lottery - likely for most of us - you go to Plan B: calling the Inyo FS office in Bishop regularly looking for cancellations. Again, flexibility with dates can reward you. Plan C is heading to Lone Pine with your group next summer and hoping for no-shows the day-of at the InterAgency Visitor Center. That can seem dicey, but it often works.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6966 08/30/10 11:28 AM
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Glad you posted the questions. I'll contribute to #4 here.

You should enter the lottery in February -- click on the 2010 Whitney Permit Availability on the left above and follow the links, especially the lottery progress thread.

If you have enough $$, maybe submit several lottery applications (just be aware that if more than one is successful, there are NO refunds.) Get together with your group and decide what dates you are all willing to commit to hiking Whitney, then submit your lottery application in February. Note that weekends fill up most quickly, and giving more dates may help your chances.

Also, understand that when you hike Whitney, it is a very good idea to go to the area two days before the hike to acclimate. It is highly likely that someone in your group will be affected by the high altitude that they won't make the summit if you don't spend more than 24 hours above 8000' before the hike. Staying at 10k (Horseshoe Meadows) is best. So try to add that acclimation time into your plans.


For reference, here is the 2010 lottery application form:
NOTE: DO NOT USE these to try to apply for the lottery or for a Wilderness Permit outside of the lottery.
These are out-of-date and NOT VALID!!!




Last edited by Steve C; 03/24/11 01:53 PM. Reason: Out-of-date note
Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6970 08/30/10 12:09 PM
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Thank you guys for the suggestions! I will be there February with everyone else it seems smile If that doesn't work i am glad there are options. When is probably the best date range to shoot for?

As far as 1 or 2 days, that is the choice. 1 day of 'death march' or 2 days and hiking up lots of gear. I think 2 days, even though may be harder, seems like the more enjoyable option!

I have never heard of the two hikes mentioned after Baldy, do you have more info on them?

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6972 08/30/10 12:47 PM
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The best dates in terms of availability are, unfortunately, not the best dates for a group of relatively novice hikers - unless you get some snow and ice practice around LA this winter with ice axe and crampons. The Whitney trail can have abundant snow and ice on it well into June, and then be back to semi-winter conditions by September or early October. These are radically different hiking conditions than a clear trail in August - but much more demanding and dangerous. You would probably have no trouble getting an overnight permit for 6 in May or October - but you'd likely need winter climbing gear and the skills to use it.

The highest demand for trail permits is, of course, during the summer months when the trail is at its clearest and folks are burning vacation time - June through August. It's Grand Central Station at the Portal and on the mountain those months. If you can get everyone to agree on going mid-week, that's your best bet for getting lottery dates. Remember, you can enter as many dates on one lottery application as you want. As Steve suggested, if you get skunked in the lottery, look at the past year's actual permit usage (conveniently located here at the Zone) and map a strategy to target calls to the Inyo around those similar time frames for 2011. People begin cancelling permits about 10 days out from their start date, so you will almost certainly wind up a week out - or less - from your scheduled group day calling INFS frantically seeking 6 cancellations for the same day.

Even though I flew 2000 miles out there this past July with no permit in hand, and succeeded in snagging two cancellations within a day of my target date, I wouldn't bet the house that 6 will pop open for a single day in advance. That's more likely (in the summer) to happen with no-shows the day of, and you'd have to have your group out there with gear and ready to go the same day - or not, if you're unlucky. That's a tough call with 6 different people. If you press ahead and plan this, and get to this point, be sure you have a Plan B alternate trail in mind. September is probably your best bet to have this happen successfully, and still have a decent chance with the weather.

San Jacinto is in Palm Springs - the peak with the tram to near the top. It's a bit over 11,000 feet and has several really demanding trails. My hiking partner from the Inland Empire this past July spent most of his training time here or on Baldy. San Gorgonio is - I believe - in the San Bernardino mountains, in the San Gorgonio Wilderness. It's over 10K' and has several trails that exceed 4000 feet elevation gain.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Bulldog34 #6973 08/30/10 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bulldog34
That's a tough call with 6 different people. If you press ahead and plan this, and get to this point, be sure you have a Plan B alternate trail in mind.


I'd suggest plans A, B, and C might be:

A: camp at Horseshoe Meadows on a Saturday in early September. On Sunday, drive down to the Visitor Center by 11 AM and try for a Monday entry date for 6.

B: if unsuccessful, get back up to HM and day hike. On Monday, drive down and try for a Tuesday entry date.

C: if unsuccessful, repeat for a Wednesday date.

I'd lay 99.9% odds you will get a permit one of those days.

Check the 2009 unused permit numbers. Even Labor Day had a number of unused overnights available.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Steve C #6974 08/30/10 01:50 PM
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Coordinating 6-10 people is a monumental task. It would be nice if everyone had some hiking and or backpacking experience.Taking 6-10 newbies up to the highest point in the continental United States is tricky and risky. If you decide to do it as a group then you will only be as strong as your weakest hiker.Make sure everyone reads the Orientation Notes for First Timers.
People in all kinds of shape have successfully made the summit. The key is how well one handles the altitude. That is why Steve's advice to get up to Horseshoe Meadows prior to acclimate is essential. With that being said everyone must be in some kind of good physical shape to make the summit. It is one long hard walk 11 miles each way with 6,000 feet of elevation gain.
BTW you don't have to actually show up in February to put in your permit application. It can be done by mail.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Rod #6975 08/30/10 02:35 PM
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Thanks Rod,

You are right, I resolved myself to the fact that getting my hiking buddies in on this trip would be anything but easy. Hell, it is hard to get 6 people to agree on dinner plans wink. This is one reason i am researching early, and gathering information well in advance. I have a feeling the more details i give the more likely some may back out, but i have until February it seems to get an idea of a solid number.

Everyone's information has been very helpful, I am open to any and all suggestions even if they are bleak hehe.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6977 08/30/10 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sublatum
I have a feeling the more details i give the more likely some may back out, but i have until February it seems to get an idea of a solid number.

And don't be surprised if one or two drop out just a day or two before you go on the trip. It happens all the time.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6981 08/30/10 06:08 PM
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Here goes...

1. 1 vs. 2 days...How about 3 days. Personally, I find the day hike rushed. I hike a day up to Trail Camp, a summit day and an out day. Figuring you are going have to drive back to SoCal when your last day is done.

2. Shape...Very good shape for the day hike. The better shape you are in, the more enjoyable the hike will be. For backpacking, all you need to do is get in good enough shape to haul 30# 6 miles, +3,600'. Getting to the summit with a light pack is a semi-piece of cake..

3. Getting into shape...Work harder than you think you need to, no matter day hike or backpack. San Antonio Canyon is a great place to train because you can cobble together almost any gain, distance or terrain.

4. 6 to 10 peeps...smaller groups work better. It's easier to win a lottery spot or to get a walk-in. To maximize your chance of a permit, structure you application with a preference for a mid week start.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6985 08/30/10 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sublatum
Thanks Rod,

You are right, I resolved myself to the fact that getting my hiking buddies in on this trip would be anything but easy. Hell, it is hard to get 6 people to agree on dinner plans wink. This is one reason i am researching early, and gathering information well in advance. I have a feeling the more details i give the more likely some may back out, but i have until February it seems to get an idea of a solid number.


It is hard to get people to commit to a training plan, let alone the $15 per person permit reservation fee. If you get permit space for 6 people, expect one of the people in the group to back out in the last month due to unexpected events. Keep your list as small as possible and keep a "waiting list" if people get summit fever at the last minute (but be careful about letting untrained people into your group).

As noted in Day Hike vs. Overnight Hike, a backpacking trip will probably be harder for your first trip on the trail, so if you have some free time between now and then, consider getting a day hike permit cancellation and hiking up to Trail Camp and back.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Rod #6986 08/30/10 11:18 PM
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Hi Rod, Coordinating is tough, but last time up, Gary and I saw a group of 17 young woman on the trail. Besides them, there were a considerable amount of women hiking that day, including several with another large group going to the summit in memory of a friend who had just passed away.

I'm trying to plan one more trip this year, but with the kids school schedules, work, etc....it's hard to get a date everyone agrees with.

I don't think they get it. I NEED a burger!


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Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
VersatileFred #6987 08/30/10 11:59 PM
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What is the best way to get a permit for the next month? I like the idea of getting a feel for the hike before i take people on it. However i'd have to do it within a month or so, or wait till next summer, I am not experienced at all with hiking in the snow.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6988 08/31/10 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sublatum
What is the best way to get a permit for the next month?


Read the "Wilderness Permit Options" link in the Feature Topics box above on the left. Especially read the "No-Fee Permit Options" part, (step 6).

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6989 08/31/10 12:19 AM
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hey SubL,
Steve C posted this link to last year's un-used permits.
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads.php/topics/135#Post135

If you look at September, you will see that only three days had no un-used overnight permits. That means that on any given day in September you have a 90% chance of just walking in and getting a permit. Of those three days, all of them were either on a Friday or Saturday. In other words, if you are looking for an overnight permit and you choose a day other than Friday or Saturday as your start day, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a permit.

For a day hike permit in september there were only 5 days that didn't have any un-used permits. That works out to about 84% chance of getting a day permit on any given day. But again, all 5 of those dates that didn't have any un-used permits were either a friday or saturday. So again, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a permit if you pick a day other than Friday or Saturday.

I'm planning my hike for tuesday Sept 7th. i don't have a permit yet and it is a week away.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6990 08/31/10 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sublatum
What is the best way to get a permit for the next month? I like the idea of getting a feel for the hike before i take people on it. However i'd have to do it within a month or so, or wait till next summer, I am not experienced at all with hiking in the snow.


Hey Sublatum, I would strongly encourage you to do this since you're just a few hours' drive away. As a group leader next year it would be wonderful for your self-confidence if you could experience some of the trail before the long, icy winter sets in and you have no opportunity to do so till next summer. Snag a cancellation or walk-in permit and dayhike up the trail as far as you're comfortable and acclimation/weather allow. Outpost Camp is a tad less than 4 miles up the trail, or maybe to Mirror Lake or even Consultation Lake (5.8 miles). That would be similar to the Baldy hikes you've done, just at a higher altitude. The chance of any September snow having a huge impact on accessibility of the lower sections of the trail is relatively low. Also, you can hike up as far as Lone Pine Lake (2.5 miles) without a permit - the Whitney Permit Zone begins just after the lake.

I can also assure you that doing this would keep the juices flowing all winter long about your planned trip next year.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6993 08/31/10 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sublatum
What is the best way to get a permit for the next month? I like the idea of getting a feel for the hike before i take people on it. However i'd have to do it within a month or so, or wait till next summer, I am not experienced at all with hiking in the snow.


The best way is to walk into the ESIVC mid-week. The kids are back in school and the days are getting shorter and cooler this eases the pressure on permits.

Also, if you do this have a planned Plan B. In the Sierra, Plan Bs can be a lot better than Plan As.

I don't pay for permits unless a majority of my friends insist we reserve. I've been skunked once and no one complained about Plan B.

Don't worry about the snow. It is usually up high and doesn't require winter tools in the summer/early fall. With that said, never go higher than you can safely descend. If you come and do not reach the summit you will still have a great experience.

Last edited by wbtravis; 08/31/10 07:29 AM.
Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Bulldog34 #6994 08/31/10 08:04 AM
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Trust me, i love this idea. After reading more about permits, correct me if i am wrong, but there doesn't seem to be anyway to get a permit (in the next month) without going down there one day, (hoping for it), staying the night, then hiking up the next day correct?

-David

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
Sublatum #6995 08/31/10 08:08 AM
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Sublatum
you can call the wilderness office every day and ask if there have been any cancellations for September.

The number is 760-873-2483

Specify day or overnight.

If there is a cancellation and you do want to reserve the date, you will need to pay the $15.

Re: Planning first Whitney Hike
tdtz #6996 08/31/10 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: tdtz
Sublatum
you can call the wilderness office every day and ask if there have been any cancellations for September.

The number is 760-873-2483

Specify day or overnight.

If there is a cancellation and you do want to reserve the date, you will need to pay the $15.


Sublatum, you definitely want to do this - twice a day every day if you can. A lot can happen between a call at 10 am and another at 4 pm. Permit holders typically begin cancelling or reducing group size between 7-10 days out from their permit date, then it really picks up within the 4-day window - remember what Steve said about people in groups typically bailing at the last minute.

The best strategy is to target a mid-week day and be flexible enough to accept one day on either side of that target date. When you call the INFS ask for availability for those 3 dates - you're bound to have a permit open on one of the 3 days, especially in September when school is back in session. The idea of heading to Lone Pine and hoping for a no-show is a last ditch effort.

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