Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Overnight hike to the Gambler's Special

My partner and I hiked back to the wreck of the Gambler's Special on Wednesday. It is the wreck site of flight 708, a DC-3 that crashed near Mt Whitney in 1969. An Air Force helo also crashed there during the recovery efforts. Several other CAP aircraft crashed during the long search and more lives were lost. It has been day hiked a few times that I know of, but that canyon gets very few vistors.

We brought overnight gear with us and spent the night at the tarn near where the recovery helo crashed. That canyon is one of the most beautiful places on earth and well worth the two years of work it took to get back there.

We took seven hours to get in with no real concern for time. We only needed to set up camp in the daylight so we tried to enjoy the hike as much as possible, considering how incredibly difficult it is. It is ALWAYS up. Always. Elevation gain runs from 1200-1800 feet per mile. The terrain is rough 95% of the time.

We set up camp near the tarn and took a nap. The 1st wreckage we saw was a piece of rotor blade in the water near our camp site. The helo is slowly making its way downhill.

My partner took a swim in the tarn, we had some hot food and decided to explore some. The original plan had us exploring both wreck sites in the morning and then leaving after lunch. We were both feeling so good after the short nap we decided to check out the helo and "maybe" the DC-3. We left with some water, gloves, camera and a register we brought for the site. I placed a pic of the DC-3 with the names of those lost on the back in a waterproof container.

We followed the helo trail uphill until we could find nothing else. Two minutes later we saw the first piece of the DC-3 and followed the trail. We ended up in a few places that I did not feel safe in. A boulder the size of a small car moved when I walked on it. Luckily it didn't fall. All of the rocks in this area are very loose and most are big. We went as high as I felt was safe considering the time of day and made our way back following the pieces.

At one point I set my camera down and it slide into the rocks. It had all of the route pics, helo pics and 90% of the DC-3 pics on it. To make it worse we brought no headlamp and I feared we were losing daylight. We spent 15 minutes moving rocks and searching. Finally, nearly 3-4 feet down below foot level I spotted it and was just barely able to pull it out. I was a lot more careful with the wrist strap after that.

We finished up at the site and headed down, which because we didn't have enough daylight to backtrack we had a short section of some class three down climbing.

We slowly made our way back to our camp and started cooking dinner. My Jet Boil stove, which has made many trips with me and is kept spotlessly clean, somehow caught fire. I was able to secure the fuel valve and there was no damage. After double checking it we used it the rest of the trip without further problems. While cleaning up from dinner we found a spent .22 shell laying on the ground. A search via headlamp and again in the morning reveled no more. No idea why it would be by that pristine tarn - it wasn't drunk rednecks, that's for sure.

I slept good that night under perfectly clear skies, but my partner had problems with altitude. At first light we packed up and headed down. The route is harder to follow downhill and we got off of it several times. Actually, we would be off the route we took in over 75% of the time on the way down. Getting back to the truck in just over four hours was a great feeling, because making it out safe is my number one goal every time.

We took several hundred pics over the day and half and I will post some to my Flickr page shortly. There are many that I don't wish to post publicly and I will password protect those.

We were very respectful of both sites and made sure everything was left where we found it. We of course took nothing.

I'll admit, I was drawn to this site mainly because of the difficulty of reaching it, but I am humbled to be able to stand there and to have a moment of silence at the site. Even with the wrecks of two aircraft in that canyon, it is by far the best place I have ever hiked to......................................DUG

Gives me the willies just reading the crash roster....too many 'ghosts'

We didn't camp at the wreck. Our camp site was 15 minutes away from the DC3................................DUG

Thanks for the report, DUG. Good to hear it went well.

May they all rest in peace.

That would be much better.

I might be mistaken, but I think that I recalled seeing a copy of the original news article & other information about this area in Bob R's archives. I just looked for it a bit ago, and could not find it. There have also been some very interesting threads on the WPSMB on the Gambler's Special topic that are worth perusing. (love to research anything with potential history)

Great TR DUG, what a great experience. Very curious to see what that canyon looks like.

I have nearly 400 photos and some video from the trip. My hiking buddy has more as well. I need to swap DVDs with him and finish uploading. There are some that I don't wish to share, but the rest will be up after I get back from this weekend's camping trip (camper this time). I'm not kidding when I say it took two years of work to get back there. I have 100s of hours of research in locating the site and gathering all the information I could find on the topic. In 2008 I was penciled in to hike back to the site with Tom Gossett and another partner. A snow storm stopped us before we got on trail. I tried last year with my son and another partner and I got us off route - luckily in the first hour. That didn't hurt so bad because we had time to pull a Whitney permit and I helped them get their first Whitney summits. When the photos are up, I'll post the link....................................DUG

Great job DUG. I posted something last night but I must not have hit the submit button.I am fascinated by the Gamblers Special crash.Such a tragedy. As a pilot I always like to analize what errors were made that could have been avoided.Sounds like an incredible physical challenge to get there.Look forward to your pics.

Rod, since you're a pilot, maybe you know...

During a storm, the barometric pressure decreases, right?

And an airplane's altimeter uses that pressure to calculate altitude, right?

So as barometric pressure drops, an altimeter would read higher elevations. true?

Now if this plane was flying into a storm, could it have been that their altimeter was reporting a higher altitude than actual?

Wow DUG, now that's a hike worth the effort! How cool that must be. I need to make a note of this so I can give it a shot some day. Look forward to the pix!

Altimeters are provided with a barosetting that allows the pilot to compensate for these weather changes, the sea-level air pressure to which the altimeter is adjusted appearing in a window of the dial. Flights below 18,000 ft (5486 m) must constantly contact the nearest traffic center to keep the altimeters so updated. Flights above 18,000 ft and over international waters utilize a constant altimeter setting of 29.92 in. Hg, or 1013.2 millibars (101.32 kilopascals) so that all high-flying aircraft have the same reference and will be interrelated, providing an extra margin of safety.

If I understand the accident report correctly, they couldn't go above 12,000 feet anyway. The DC-3 is not pressurized. The pilot, for reasons unknown took an unauthorized shortcut, flying into headwinds. He thought he was clear of the mountains so he turned towards LA. There was some NAV towers out of service that night which made it harder for him to understand where he really was........................DUG

Just found out my partner lost his camera on the trip out.

My pics (not labeled yet): http://www.flickr.com/photos/30467211@N04/sets/72157624867297046/

As Bee stated barometric pressure does effect altimeter readings but not very much. They do re-set the altimeter based on local barometric pressure.Usually every contact with air control you will get a altimeter setting.I read the NTSB report and as I recall they were flying VFR on a cloudy stormy night which were really IFR conditions.Poor visability and deviating from the flight route was the cause of flying into the mountain.
Here is a report blaming the probable cause on the pilot deviating from the normal recommended course.
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR70-05.pdf

To see a bigger image, click on the picture, select "View all sizes" under the Action tab (top left). Then select "Original."

Thank you, Bob. I knew that I had seen this somewhere in your files. Interesting read, not just for the Gambler's Special article, but for the sign of the times spread all over that front page.

My buddy's camera was found and returned. Pics are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30467211@N04/sets/72157624852322245/

And yes, I know the tent is too close to the water. It was either that or sleep on a boulder......................DUG

Wow the gamblers special crash made it into the news along with some major big time events.The late 60's were really interesting times.
DUG thanks for your report and pictures.

PS DUG
The flicker link to those pictures isn't working and even when I copied and pasted it into the browser it didn't work.

flickr link worked for me.

I'm amazed at the condition of the wreckage. One would expect labels to be unreadable, paint to be badly faded...shoes to be completely disintegrated.

The condition of the debris makes it seem like a much more recent event than 40 years ago.

Rod,

The link works for me ok. Try via FB or WPSMB...............................................DUG

Now it works go figure. Great pictures.I really have a hard time with plane crashes.99% are pilot error and thus avoidable. I guess being a pilot and watching some of my favorite musical gropus and people from Buddy Holly, Richey Vallen, Big Bopper ,Ricky Nelson,Jim Croce on and on and my dad's close friend Audie Murphy die in plane crashes.All preventable plane crashes.
(Ricky Nelson's is still a mystery due to on board fire)

And Patsy, too.

Of course Patsy one of my all time favorites.I don't want to be quilty of highjacking this thread with memories of famous people dying in plane crashes but the Newspaper with all those major events including the Gamblers Special Crash got me thinking about how many we lost tp plane crashes. There was also John Denver.

For those interested in visiting the crash sites, an easier route is to start from Whitney Portal, ascend the Carillon Creek drainage, and cross over the saddle west of Gambler's Special Peak to the crash site. The route can be kept at a class 3 level with reasonable route finding. It would probably be best to attempt the route later in the season when all the snow is gone from the north facing ledges one must descend to reach the crash site.

An added perk to the route is that it is straight forward to also bag Gambler's Special Peak from the saddle. On the downside, the route is technically within the Whitney Zone, so you'll have to get a permit. However, it is possible to get the permit that morning, visit both sites, bag the peak, and get back down in one day. The hike is a worthwhile adventure to a scenic and solemn place.

Me and a friend just did an overnite to the Gamblers Special. The climb is so beautiful and extremely tough. We had packs, 7 hours up. I did not sleep one minute that nite. The next morn I took photos of the sunrise as I did the alpenglow at sunset the nite before. I free climbed as far up the cliff as I could without gear and worked my way down. We spent 3 hours at the site, and took about 500 pics. I'm a wreck chaser and have lifelong obssesion with aircraft. I am writing a book about the crash and the people who were on that plane. I will never forget the milky way that nite, shooting stars almost full moon that lit up the whole canyon. That hike is brutal to say the least. I would like to mention that there was no trace anybody was at the tarn except Zack's bare foot print by the lake. Nice work leave only foot prints. I realy felt like I was at a very special place it is so peaceful. I will return someday. I seriously don't see alot of people doing that hike. I am in excellent shape. I hike alot of back country snowboarding and I barely made it. Man that was a beautiful hike. rexstahoecreations@yahoo.com

If it is EASIER then you know I'm not interested. Would love to see your pics and maybe a map of the route you took....................................DUG

I was planning on visiting the B24 crash site at Koip Peak this summer, but our hiking plans changed. Maybe next summer

I keep checking this site frequently - he keeps adding photos monthly, but I don't think he's been to the Gambler's Special site yet.

http://joeidoni.smugmug.com/Aircraft-Crash-Sites

You guys might be interested in this crash site, in the Panamint range. The mountain is visible from the road to Death Valley. Might be a good winter-time hike. Nobody died in this one... they lost power, and everyone bailed before it went down.

Just google "albatross crash panamint" for links.

Here's a picture from this smugmug photo gallery:
Panamint Range SA-16 Albatross 4/4/05 - Joe Idoni's Photos
(I just realized Joe Idoni is the guy Fishmonger watches.)

If I have anything to do with it, Joe will make it to the Gambler's soon. Check out his second Coso Range F4 pics - that's my son and I with Joe and Tom. We took that trip because our attempt at the Gambler's was snowed out. Joe is a great guy..................................................DUG

http://joeidoni.smugmug.com/Aircraft-Cra...391406400_kQLCX

Easyer then I know, there aint nothing easy about that hike. come on now.the only easy part was following the size 14 foot prints that lead the first mile and a half.me and my partner both had a very strong feeling of accomplishment.may god bless the surviving family of the passengers.

To see my climb to N15570, find " Taylor C Eslick" at facebook.Many new items including fourth prop blade.

Hi Taylor, I think your FB pictures are private. I can't see any albums.

Send a friend request, sorry about that. Ill undo the privacy lock

I can see your pictures, Taylor. Do you have one of that fourth prop blade?

The forth prop is at lookers right of the impact site, its on a cliff that you gotta climb up to. Its bent into a half moon with little damage,all my pics are edited with discriptions. also please check out the Hobart Mills C-47 micro site at my pics.

Here's the picture of the prop blade, from Taylor's Facebook album (posted with his permission):



Good find, Taylor!

I was able to find the fourth prop only because my friend Marc was with me. I spent most of the day on the cliffs and he spent most of the day at the main debris. The prop just sits there all by itself up on a shelf, I never really looked up and I'll bet I won't be able to find it when I go back.

DUG: Very interesting reading! I remember you wrote/refered to another article about a visit to a site where two F-14s hit during training and crashed? Curious!

Yeah, we do some wreck chasing. It's a nice fit with hiking. The Gambler's wreck interested me because it's hard to get to. Took me 3 years of research and 2 attempts.

The main part of the F4 wrecks are easy. The really good stuff is hard to get to. I was lucky to be guided in by one of the best.

Now I want to take a different route into the Gambler's wreck and bring my son. He was on the failed attempt (100% my route finding that screwed us) but had to miss the 2nd try because of school.

I have tons of pics and stuff up on my photo page. Can't help you with maps or directions though - wreck hunting isn't like hiking in that respect. I can take you to the F4 easy stuff if you like.........................DUG

Just returned from the wreck site of N15570, 19th to 20th. Site is 75% buried in snow. It was raining and snowing. I took about 15 minutes of video and left as soon as I could, I vowed to never go back. That is holy ground and the souls of the lost ones warned me to never come back. I am writing a book and will not mention N15570, Gamblers Special, or that it's even in the Sierras. I just want to tell the stories about all the wonderful people who where lost on that terrible morning.

Too early in the season with such a heavy snow pack. Might be good in a few weeks. With the site getting so much attention lately and the hike really not that hard, I'm afraid it will be picked clean by looters. Sad......................DUG

The register at the site is intact and still in the same place. I will never go back up there again.

The families that I now represent have demanded that nobody return to the grave yard of there loved ones. CLSAR was caught planning a trip to clean up and remove artifacts with out notifying family and legal action may be taken against them. This was known by several people who kept the information from family. Legal action is being taken as I write this to protect the site and making entry illegal so to speak. My visit to the site was in honor of the families and to bring closure. and not as a trophy hike. So that being said once again I will repeat The families of the victims of FLT 708 have demanded that "nobody enter the site ever again"!!!!!

Interesting. Personally, I have zero interest in visiting death/wreckage sites (not my thing), but I will be really interested in how the families "that you represent" are going to declare public lands closed to the public. There are thousands of crash sites such as these (one comes to mind is Grand Canyon) and to my knowledge, none of the sites on public lands have been closed off (to my knowledge; I stand corrected if the facts state otherwise) Until otherwise declared closed, I believe that your heartfelt declarations/intimidating assertions with triple exclaimations will serve only to stir interest........ Maybe I will take a stroll up to the site.

As far as the SAR team accusations are concerned, unless you are willing to present the facts/proof along with your legal wagging, I suggest you take it somewhere else, as we are strong supporters of the SAR teams and any such negativity is viewed in a dim light unless otherwise proven.

I speak for myself and not for anyone else on the board.

Of all of the accounts that I have read of trips to the Gambler's Special, every one has been very reverent and respectful of the site. I could certainly understand if any victims were left at the site, but the accounts that I read were that the recovery teams were very diligent about bringing all of the remains down off the mountain.

It seems odd that there is a tone that is somewhat threatening when everyone has been so respectful.

Taylor, it sounds like someone is pretending to carry more power and control than they have by harassing you. Sites where people die are all over the place. This one happens to be in a very remote place, so it is not visited often.

But to try to declare it off limits is like making every cemetery a holy shrine never to be entered.

Tell them good luck with their demands.

What is CLSAR?
Since when is plane and helicopter wreckage considered "artifacts"? The families have had 42 years to recover any lost property from their loved ones. CLMRG and others recovered remains many years ago. Maybe writing your story will help bring some family members that need closure.

CLSAR = China Lake Search and Rescue.But I am sure that was a rhetorical question.
There is no law to prevent someone from hiking to such revered place in Whitney lore as The Gambler's Special site. Out of respect to those that died I would hope no one would disturb artifacts that have been left behind as gravemarkers to the tragic death of those who who crashed. The artifacts might be there for the picking but like those who disturbed the sacred Indian Burial Grounds there is a karmic price to be payed.

Before this goes any further first the comment I made to CLSAR was completely out of line and I apologize with embarrassment to myself. Several family members where shocked about hearing about a potential clean up. I apologize to the CLSAR again and will take responsibility for the comment. I now have seen what I have done and actually feel pretty ashamed. The other comments about demanding not to go to the site as you know are foolish as well. I believe I should shut my trap and the book project and go my own way as I feel I have done too much wrong. I once again apologize to all that I have insulted and offended, especially the MWHA and CLSAR. I no longer feel its a good idea to write a book.

Rod - Not a rhetorical question. The China Lake Mountain Rescue Group goes by CLMRG. I did not want to assume what the poster was referring to. I know many of CLMRG involved with the 1969-1970 event are still active members.

Taylor - your post was heartfelt with great honesty. It takes a stand up man of good character to write and goes along way to earning respect - at least in my book. Are you so sure now you want to scrap the book idea. If anything, the emotions and concerns of people some 40 years later might indicate that indeed there is a story that bears telling. When you are embroiled in the center, sometimes it is hard to see as others do not so deeply involved. You may consider taking a break and then look back - you may still find a story worthy and of merit that screams to be written.

Dare to dream

My bad Tom. You are so right.