Mt Whitney Zone
Posted By: Steve C Half Dome Permits - 01/29/10 11:44 PM
I saw this today in the Fresno area Business Journal:

Quote:
There will now be quotas applied to the number of people allowed to hike up Yosemite National Park's famed Half Dome Trail.

In the name of safety, the National Park Service this year is requiring permits to hike to the top of Half Dome on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and federal holidays. A maximum of 400 permits will be issued each of those days. According to park officials, less than 400 people use the trail on weekdays while about 800 people use the trail on weekends and holidays, on average.

Permits are available up to about four months in advance to one week in advance exclusively through the National Recreation Reservation Service. Permits are not available in the park or on a fist-come, first-served basis.

Reservation procedures and timing may be different in 2011 as park officials are developing a long-term plan to manage use of the Half Dome Trail.

The cables hikers use to ascend Half Dome are usually in place May-October.


Yosemite National Park (NPS.gov) news release:   Yosemite National Park Announces Interim
                                         Program for Half Dome Day Use Permits to Address Visitor Safety

                                         Management Paper (4 pages): Management of the Half Dome Cables

Newspapers, etc.:

Discussion on YosemiteNews.info forum:   Half Dome Permits

Discussion on WPSMB forum:   quotas for half dome now?
Posted By: wagga Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/29/10 11:57 PM
Will they be charging a fee?
What about the Snake Dike route?

Should have waited until Steve finished posting!

It's actually 300 dayhikers.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 12:11 AM
Fee: $1.50 service charge per permit.

From the news release: "The permits are free, however, there is a non-refundable $1.50 service charge for each permit obtained."

Must be like the Whitney permits: They're free, but the reservation is $15.

I'm pretty sure Snake Dike and the face would be free:
"These permits are required for the use of the trail from the base of the Subdome to the summit of Half Dome and include the Half Dome cable route."


Looks like day hikers only get 300 permits:

Four hundred permits will be issued per day, 300 of these will be Day Use Permits and 100 will be included in wilderness permits. These permits are required for the use of the trail from the base of the Subdome to the summit of Half Dome and include the Half Dome cable route.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 12:42 AM
On the YosemiteNews.info forum, Mike Condron his the nail on the head:
I think there will be a ton of no-shows. There doesn't seem to be a way of getting your hands on an unused permit.


From the Yosemite NP Half Dome faq
Is there any benefit to canceling a permit if I know I won't use it?
The Half Dome permit is non-refundable. However, if you cancel a permit far enough in advance, someone else may be able to use it. Once a permit is cancelled, it becomes available again via www.recreation.gov or 877/444-6777.

If someone with a permit does not show up, can I wait at the base of the subdome and take their place?
No, you must have a valid permit in possession to show the ranger.
Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 12:56 AM
If I get a first-come-first-served wilderness permit can I get a Half Dome permit?
Posted By: Bee Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 01:22 AM
Originally Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin
If I get a first-come-first-served wilderness permit can I get a Half Dome permit?


How can I obtain a permit to hike Half Dome?
Visit www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvist/hdpermits.htm for details about Half Dome permits.


See questions about the permits at:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/hdfaq.htm

Yosemite National Park
Frequently Asked Questions about Half Dome Permits



You can obtain a permit to hike Half Dome by visiting www.recreation.gov or by calling 877/444-6777. (We recommend using the website.) You can get up to four permits per web session or phone call. Each permit has a service fee of $1.50.

Permits are only available in advance and will not be available in Yosemite.
Posted By: Barbara Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 01:31 AM
Doesn't this lead people to take more risks? What if you have a hard to get permit - get to the base, big clouds are rolling in - and you know it's now or maybe never for this year? That might push some people to risk going up when otherwise they might go down, knowing they could try again a week later - or whatever. Am I missing something? Tho I do agree the weekend numbers can be ghastly. And I guess if there is a ranger stationed there to check permits, then she/he can close the cables in nasty weather.
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 03:20 AM
Not surprised...

Just read the entire announcement on the news page of the NPS site. Although it appears to sound like you can only obtain the permits via either phone or the national reservation website, the fact that they say the permits are free, except for the $1.50 charge to "obtain" them (bad choice of words), doesn't makes sense if the only way you can get them IS to reserve them -- cuz in that case, they are not free cuz you HAVE to pay to reserve them. So although the phone and web site are two ways to obtain them, perhaps what is implied, but not mentioned, is that they can also be obtained in person at the park (if not "sold out"), which is the only way they could be legitimately "free". I saw nothing in the NPS news announcement that specifically said you could NOT get them at the park in person. In-person obtaining of the permits wasn't even mentioned, which to me, is inconclusive on that point.

CaT
Posted By: Mike Condron Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 05:32 AM
The permits will not be available at the park. If there is a no show that permit is wasted. If a person cancels their permit say one week prior to it's specified date then there may be enough time to let another person reserve it prior to it's specified date. It will still have to be obtained through the reservation system. The person that is deciding to NOT use a permit actually has to go to the trouble of calling the reservation organization to cancel their use and make it available for someone else. Not likely most of the time.

Anybody read anything that says how you get the actual permit in your hands? If it's through the mail that will be another obstacle.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 05:43 AM
Their failure to have a viable no-show process makes one really appreciate Inyo National Forest for the way they handle the Whitney permits.

Here's how it works for Whitney hikers:
Permits for Overnight hikers have to be picked up in person by 10 AM the day of entry, and Dayhike permits have to be picked up by noon the day before. Or at least people must call in by the deadline, or their permits become available to others.

I've even suggested a partial refund for early call-ins for for cancellations, but was told giving money back is always problematic.

I do think people canceling should be rewarded.
Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 06:14 AM
If I have no way to do a walk-in wilderness permit AND get a Half Dome permit at the same time then I'm PISSED, and that's only a fraction the emotion I imagine other folks will be feeling.

If true, and not corrected by summer, then this is a major screwup on NPS's part
--
I just sent them an email, if I get a response that yields anything interesting I'll post it back here.
Posted By: Mike Condron Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 06:14 AM
I think the park service is wise to have the riots over permits be done in cyberspace. Can you imagine the chaos if people had to stand in line to get one of the 300 daily permits? There would be dead people.
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 06:44 AM
Although this permit policy will effectively halve the number of people allowed to do the final section of the HD trail on weekends and holidays, I predict that many, though certainly not all, of the shut out "other half" will adjust their plans and overflow into the weekdays when possible.

I just re-read the NPS statement, and while it does say that permits will be available online or by calling the stated phone number, it does not say that permits will "only" be available via those two means. Although that is likely implied, the fact that it is not directly stated does leave some wiggle room for interpretation. Don't get me wrong -- a $1.50 reservation charge is a deal compared to Inyo's similar charge. But as a matter of truth in advertising, free permits are not really free if a service charge must be paid to get them. The distinction between the service fee to use the only means available to get the free permit will be lost on most people.

Quote:
I think the park service is wise to have the riots over permits be done in cyberspace. Can you imagine the chaos if people had to stand in line to get one of the 300 daily permits? There would be dead people.

Likely true.

CaT
Posted By: Rosabella Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 03:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Barbara
Doesn't this lead people to take more risks? What if you have a hard to get permit - get to the base, big clouds are rolling in - and you know it's now or maybe never for this year? That might push some people to risk going up when otherwise they might go down, knowing they could try again a week later - or whatever. Am I missing something? Tho I do agree the weekend numbers can be ghastly. And I guess if there is a ranger stationed there to check permits, then she/he can close the cables in nasty weather.


I think this might be one of the few good reasons for requesting permits. Every time I've been up Half Dome, I've been horrified by the lack of preparation and knowledge of some of the people I'd meet on the trail. "Hikers" carrying a 16 oz. bottle of water, wearing inadequate shoes, and no head lamp/flashlight is all too common; I sometimes wonder how some of the people I pass get back down to the valley! I think there is a certain percent of visitors to Yosemite who see Half Dome - get up one morning and say "hey, let's go climb Half Dome".... becasue they want to go home and say they did it.

I'm assuming now, when picking up permits, these same people will hear the lecture on packing out their trash. Maybe the times I've been up there I've just happened to be following some real pigs, but there sure has been a lot of trash along side the trail. I don't mind picking up trash, because it needs to be picked up, but I draw the line at other people's toilet paper!

.... but it IS really concerning about the few permits being issued, and the no-show policy. Steve, I know you've posted charts on the Whitney permits, showing in one column that all permits were reserved/none available, and in the next column how many were available for walk-in due to no-shows. There are a LOT of no-shows. Obviously, a lot of people do not bother to cancel a permit reservation when they decide to not use it.

It's never going to be a perfect system, but it seems that the "powers that be" haven't thought this all the way thru before issuing a policy. It's surprising that they didn't use the Whitney Permit process as their blueprint.

I guess for now, I'll just plan on going up Half Dome in the middle of the week.
Posted By: Ken Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/30/10 09:35 PM
THANK GOD!

Kudos to the Inyo, but we should all remember that the system that we enjoy today has evolved over some time, and it wasn't this way when it started, I'd think. I'm sure the NPS will evolve, as well.

Also remember that there are people who continue to curse and ignore the Inyo system.
Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/31/10 06:49 AM
Originally Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin
If I get a first-come-first-served wilderness permit can I get a Half Dome permit?


I sent off an email using the NPS web site email form, and have already gotten a response that seems to imply the wilderness permit automatically enables you to do Half Dome.

>
>If you get an appropriate wilderness permit (a Little Yosemite Valley permit would
>qualify), you won't need to do anything extra in order to hike to Half Dome.
>
>Jeffrey
>
>National Park Service
>Yosemite National Park
>http://www.nps.gov/yose/
>
>Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/YosemiteNPS
>
>----qumqats@XXXXXXXXXXXX wrote: -----
>
>To: XXXXXXXXXXXXX@nps.gov
>From: qumqats@XXXXXXXXXXX
>Date: 01/29/2010 10:21PM
>Subject: From NPS.gov: Half Dome permit system
>
>Email submitted from: qumqats@XXXXXXXXXXXXX at /yose/planyourvisit/hdfaq.htm
>
>What is the intended system for Half Dome permit issuance for those backpackers
>who use the walk-in first-come-first-served wilderness permits issued at
>the wilderness permit office in the valley?
>
>Is a walk-in wilderness permit issued for Little Yosemite Valley sufficient?
>
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/31/10 09:23 AM
Just for reference, here's a picture of the cables on a busy day.

Posted By: Rosabella Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/31/10 02:25 PM
WOW! I've NEVER seen so many people on Half Dome. I'm going to guess (by the shadows) that this picture was taken around 2:00 PM?

We've always headed up early, and were on the top before noon... but looking back, I don't know if I've ever gone up Half Dome on a weekend day - it's usually been Thursday or Friday.
Posted By: Bee Re: Half Dome Permits - 01/31/10 06:37 PM
Yup, just another Half Dome weekend in paradise...
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/01/10 03:40 AM
Quote:
If you get an appropriate wilderness permit (a Little Yosemite Valley permit would
>qualify), you won't need to do anything extra in order to hike to Half Dome.


So if I am out hiking for a week or two in the back country and I reach Half Dome I wont need a special permit to go up it? such as Whitney if you enter some where other then the Inyo National Forest?

I smell Orwellian double think with the statement of it being free but costing 1.50$!
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/06/10 05:20 AM
Steve C
thats a pretty scary picture of the lines on the cables. As most of you know its like a 5.11 something without the cables and is very dangerous rock for such crowds. Cutting the number of people there would be a good thing. HOWEVER having a permit system will not make the rock less steep nor less dangerous nor will it force the people going up there with one 16 ounce bottle of water to either be more careful or more thoughtful about planning what is a long arduous trip for a day hike. As in peak bagging, some people will summit "if it kills me", and strangely enough, most people make it back alive, though wiser. I wonder how this affects people riding up on horse back. Do they still allow that? Those are the people that I wouldn't want to share the cables with, but then we can't deny access to people incapable of hiking what 22 miles? with a mile of elevation gain, in one day, and back, now can we? Well do they require a permit, or does it come with the fees for the ride and are the number of horseback riders added to or subtracted from the 400? Should I have read up more before posting?
Jim
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/06/10 06:35 AM
Hey, Jim - Welcome to the message board!

With or without the cables, "5.11 something" would be vertical (90-degree slope), and Half Dome is nowhere near vertical (a ~50-degree slope at one brief steepest point). The biggest danger, in my opinion, besides overcrowding (or actually, because of it) is the fact that the long-time "cow path" on the granite between the two cables has been worn so smooth that now it's slippery even when dry.

Unless I totally misunderstood your point, even if horses were allowed on the trails in the area (other than stock animals), I can't see that the new permit situation would have any effect on them at all, since horses won't be doing Half Dome, since the permits are only for the sub-dome and the cables, which horses clearly are incapable of doing. (Can you just picture a horse trying to do the cables??? That would be just about like a salmon trying to swim up Yosemite Falls...!). shocked

The Half Dome round trip from Happy Isles is approximately 16+ miles. The elevation gain from Happy Isles to the summit is between 4,800-4,900 feet -- a mile is 5,280 feet.

CaT
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/06/10 06:45 PM
CaT said "With or without the cables, "5.11 something" would be vertical (90-degree slope), and Half Dome is nowhere near vertical (a ~50-degree slope at one brief steepest point)."

CaT will all due respect, have you ever climbed in Yosemite? There are many 5.11 climbs on the Apron with 50 degree slope. I have actually read somewhere that the rock at the cables IS 5.11 and the rangers who used to put the cables up and take them down annually had to be very good climbers. I understand they just leave em up now.
It doesn't take steepness on glaciated smooth rock to make for danger or difficulty, otherwise people would be climbing up there rather than using the cables.
The horses took people to a point near the base of the cables so the rider could climb the cables, not the horses.

I have been up there when no one was on the cables, for good reason, the girl I was with had her hair standing straight out from her head from static from lightning, so we stopped at the base of the cables. The cables themselves are very dangerous because induction from even distant lightning can generate very high voltage.
Jim
Posted By: Mike Condron Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/06/10 08:36 PM
The stanchions and 2X4s are moved to an iceslide safe location but the cables themselves are left in place.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/06/10 11:35 PM
Jim, that's not my picture, just linked to it from another site.

I've been up that way, though, when it was about that crowded. But I just use the outside of the cables -- no waiting for that. The outside had way better traction anyway. But I guess it won't be crowded like that any more.

I've also climbed when the cables were "down". They're still there, just lying on the rock. It's a little tougher on the back, since you have to lift the cable off the rock, and it becomes a bit heavy. But you get way better traction.

And yes, CaT has climbed in Yosemite, at least the Half Dome cables:   Of cameras and granite   Enjoy the read.
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/07/10 03:00 AM
Steve, I'm guessing that when Jim asks if I have climbed in Yosemite, he means technical rock climbing, to which the answer is no. (The rest of what follows is for Jim).

I don't consider the HD cables a technical rock climb, although I'm sure it could be done as such, if desired. I'm stuck in Ohio, but do have 3 years of indoor wall climbing experience, and one short outdoor rock climb in Alaska. My comment on 5.11 not being vertical comes from what my climbing mentor told me regarding our most difficult climbing wall (which is completely vertical, and then some) -- namely, that if that climb were done outdoors on rock, it would be rated a 5.9. My logical assumption, based on that comment, is that anything rated higher than a 5.9 would likewise be vertical.

Since the a, b, c, d subdivisions of the YDS don't even kick in until 5.10, it's fair to say that those kinds of subdivisions were created to differentiate between difficult climbs and really difficult climbs within each decimal point on the scale. That kind of technical differentiation doesn't exist on anything other than vertical or near-vertical climbs precisely because the need for such differentiation is not needed at the easier levels of climbing (i.e., easier Class 5). Since the YDS only goes up to 5.15b (as of 2008), it's also a reasonable deduction that 5.11, being not hugely lower than 5.15, would also be vertical.

But clearly you have the outdoor climbing experience, so if you say the cable section is 5.11, then I'll have to reconsider my opinion and do some more homework. However, as a step in that direction, I have to ask, if Snake Dike, which ascends the steeper side of Half Dome, is only rated a 5.7, then how can the less steep cable section on the east side of HD be rated a 5.11?

Also, given the descriptions of Class 4 through 5.15 listed separately below, I'm finding it a real stretch to put the cable section of HD anywhere in the 5.10-5.14 section listed below (or even in the Class 5 section at all, to be honest). I've done HD twice (and would have done it many more times if I lived conveniently close -- like Steve), and at my current comfort level, as long as I were wearing my rock climbing shoes, I would personally feel comfortable "climbing" just outside the cables without the benefit of a rope (in good weather, of course). It's not likely I would feel the same way on a true class 5 climb, esp. with similar exposure.

Quote:
Class 4: Intermediate climbing with exposure extreme enough that most mountaineers will want a belay. A fall could be serious or fatal. Intermediate climbing requires the use of your hands and arms for pulling yourself up.
Class 5: Technical rock climbing is encompassed in Class 5 climbing. A rope, specialized equipment and training are used by the leader to protect against a fall.
5.0-5.4: A person of reasonable fitness can climb at this level with little or no rock climbing skills.
5.4-5.7: Requires rock climbing skills or strength.
5.7-5.9: Good rock climbing skills, rock shoes, and strength are generally needed to climb at this level.
5.10-5.15: Excellent rock climbing skills and training are required to climb and maintain the ability to climb this level of rock.
Many climbs have also been subcategorized with a (+) or a (-) indicating more or less difficult. I have found that some guide books will often use the (+) (-) ratings for climbs easier than 5.10. Many guide books use a,b,c,d to define the difficulty of a climb rather than the (+) or (-). For example, a 5.12d would be more difficult than a 5.12b.

CaT
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/07/10 08:10 AM
I think Jimshaw meant it was 5.11 withOUT the cables -- climbing that section without ever touching the cables.

CaT's technical climbing levels quote doesn't mention the use of technical gear, but I would think all but the craziest rock climbers would not attempt something like the cables section without a significant amount of protection.
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/07/10 07:24 PM
Hi Steve C
Hi CaT
You're both spot on. I'm new to this group and I'm trying to calibrate my posts and understand what you guys mean. I remember that this is an official peak bagging group, and technical rock climbers rarely continue to the peak after completing a route. Yes I am a traditional Yosemite climber. While the total lack of places to put pro on a slope does not make it a more technically difficult, it does rate an "X" for the route, meaning a fall probably ill be fatal, but the difficulty comes from absolutely smooth rock. Even 1/16th inch bumps are climbable, but when its smooth and polished even climbing shoes don't stick and there simply are NO handholds. On an "X" route this is a real pucker factor.

Actually I consider it kind of crazy to climb the cables without some way to fasten to them and considering that they're steel and continuous from top to bottom, I think the only way to protect the climb would be with a prussic of maybe 6mm rope and hope that it sticks to the corrosion on the cables. I would find that way scary. I am impressed with your courage. I wouldn't do that.

Indoor climbing walls of course have small pieces of plastic screwed to them to hold onto, imagine trying to climb the plywood walls WITHOUT the handholds. You can imagine that the slope would have to be much less, and this is the reality of glaciated granite. Some places its polished literally as smooth as a granite tombstone, which is a good euphemism because if you should get onto it, you're gonna take an air ride. One thing about the trade routes in Yosemite is that few are verticle so you rarely fall straight down, instead you slide or roll and there is rarely much of a yank on the rope, its not even like gym climbing.

I'm looking at my Yosemite guide book. Snake Dike as you may know was a 5.7 put up by 5.11 climbers so they only placed bolts at the belay points a rope length apart because to them it was a stroll in the park. It has an "R" rating meaning "runout" meaning little pro for a long ways. It's also rated with three stars and 5.7 quote" there are long runouts but the climb is on relatively easy rock". Most of the other climbs on that side are 5.9 or greater, theres a 5.10b and a 5.11+, so the snake dike route is special in the ease of the rock chosen, but the rock around it is much harder in general. Any 5.9 climb in Yosemite Valley was considered to be the maximum a human could climb before the standars and techniques improved. Someone who climbs 5.11 in a gym would be way stressed on Yosemite 5.9, besides needing the skills to protect it, AND climbing draging a 10 to 12 pound rope and carrying a rack weighing 12-16 pounds. Try climbing in the gym someday with a 25 pound pack. Seriously try it, its an eyeopener.

Well happy trails to you all.
Jim Shaw smile
Posted By: Fishmonger Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/08/10 06:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Jimshaw
I have actually read somewhere that the rock at the cables IS 5.11 and the rangers who used to put the cables up and take them down annually had to be very good climbers.


Last time I was up there ('89 or 90) there was a group of teenagers who walked down the slope right side of the cables, free from the cables, no ropes, tennis shoes. I figured they were insane, but I guess they wanted to impress some girls. They made it down. Don't think you would be able to do that on anything that's 5.11, or Dean Potter was one of those kids...
Posted By: wagga Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/08/10 08:26 PM
Fresno Bee had this article last week.

The full 110 page report (pdf) that lead to the new rules is here. You can look at it just for the pictures, if you like.
Warning: May not be suitable for all readers due to Statistics content. File size is over 6Mb. Do not attempt with a dial-up connection.

Steve & I are wearing red dots.
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 12:40 AM
Quote:
Don't think you would be able to do that on anything that's 5.11

Agree. I've seen both teens with tennis shoes as well as rock climbers (having just climbed Snake Dike and beginning their hike back down to Happy Isles) walk down the HD cable section -- both outside the cables, the teens with tennis shoes, the climbers with their climbing shoes.

CaT

PS - I'm going to be off the MB for a day or so, but will plug back into this thread at that time.
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 05:56 AM
CaT
I just found a reference that the cbles route without the cables is rated 5.4. My mistake, but if so, why don't people just climb the rock? Seems like it might be faster on a crowded day.
Jim
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 07:12 AM
The lack of decent hand holds probably plays into it's rating.

If you have automatic image resizing turned off then look at this shot and think of it with no people or cables.

I did find the rock very slick, I got caught in a traffic jam and I couldn't stand in one location without my shoes slowly sliding down.

I'd really love to watch peoples reaction as some hikers walk down way outside of the cables, I went down outside of them but while using the cable and allot of people were freaking out just because of that, Half Dome is definitely a place timid people go, just go and sit with your feet over the cliff and listen to the voices from behind saying your completely crazy lol
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 03:24 PM
Jim,

Thanks. I'm sure it would be faster on a crowded day. But I'm guessing that more people don't climb the outside of the cable section because it's way out of their comfort zone (consider how many people freeze up even when using the cables) -- many, if not most people who do the cables probably have zero climbing experience (and some probably have little hiking experience), which would put such a climb beyond what they could or should be doing.

RP - Just looked at that picture (nice photo angle, by the way). I can see all kinds of hand and footholds going up the left (south) side of the cables. It would be kind-of a zig-zag route, though, and would take you out and away from the cables most of the time. See your picture with my red route line added here (you will need to scroll around to the left of the cables to see the whole picture, since it is in its "original" size, to better see the route details).

CaT
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: CaT
I've seen both teens with tennis shoes as well as rock climbers (having just climbed Snake Dike and beginning their hike back down to Happy Isles) walk down the HD cable section -- both outside the cables, the teens with tennis shoes, the climbers with their climbing shoes.

CaT, are you saying they were NOT holding the cables? Or were they just on the south side of the cables but hanging on?

Fishmonger's description of those guys walking down without holding on... gives me the willies!
Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 06:45 PM
Not holding the cables, although probably keeping them close at hand, just in case.
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/09/10 09:55 PM
Your right CaT about people freezing up on the cables, while I climbed a girl behind me was crying and I had to keep telling her not to panic, she actually made it to the top though.

Your out line of the route makes me want to go climb it lol

I wouldn't go down without holding the cables because it was just too much fun! I ran backwards repel style and was down in less than 10 minutes, that experience was what makes me want to go do it again.
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/10/10 12:30 AM
I was part of a rescue of a climber with a broken foot in Tuolumne meadows. The guy was about 600 feet up on terrain about 5.4 and probably a lot like the terrain near the cables. I just climbed up it walking erect in my climbing shoes. The guys partner and I got on either side of him and walked him down facing away from the rock. He hopped so we had 5 feet on the rock. It wasn't back but we were all experienced friction climbers. A ranger rescue team met us at eh bottom of the technical rock.

At 5.4 I could probably just walk up and down without the cables, I thought it was a lot more severe there. Tennis shoes - you would "butter", that is there would be no stopping or turning around.
Jim
Posted By: Ken Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/10/10 01:14 AM
I think the route may HAVE been 5.4, but is no longer. If you look at the photo, there is a clearly visible whitish patina surrounding the cables....which is polished rock. If you look to the outside of that, you see typical Yos granite, with the great friction seen with that rock. No more, where the cables go!
Posted By: Steve C Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/11/10 06:51 AM
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
Half Dome is definitely a place timid people go, just go and sit with your feet over the cliff and listen to the voices from behind saying your completely crazy lol

You mean like this?

Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/11/10 07:48 AM
One of the problems with Half Dome is you have people doing it just so they can SAY they've done it. And a LOT of people have no idea what they're getting them selfs into. So you end up with the full range of skill sets.

From people like this, who either have skill or at the very least guts/no fear,


To people that freak and freeze on the cables. I haven't been up there in 5 years or so, so I don't know if things have changed, but every time I went the cables were a misery of slowness because SOMEONE up ahead was freaking out.





The girl in blue top/ping shorts, this was her third attempt this afternoon to go up the cables. I have to hand it to her that she kept trying, but I gather from idle discussion on the way up that she kept trying, and then turning back. Unfortunatly she didn't make it on this attempt, she turned back again.

I wonder how many people get no farther than the cables due to fears?



All this discussion about HD is making me want to do the trip again this coming summer!
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/11/10 08:28 AM
Exactly grin

I love to sit and enjoy the wonderful views, I certainly don't do it to say I have lol

Here I am at Taft Point, a nice place to find a bit more solitude then Glacier Point:


Posted By: CaT Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/11/10 02:45 PM
RP - Wow! What a perfect view from Taft Point!! Such a clear and beautiful day that must have been.
Posted By: Jimshaw Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/11/10 08:35 PM
I hope thats a pack and not a dog yer holding...

It used to give me the willies to get near an edge, even for the first three years of technical climbing I couldn't look down, so I looked out, and on rappel I looked straight ahead, once I walked right of an overhang that I didn't see coming. Rapping off overhangs is an art. You go horizontal and even lower then simply hop off, swing under and your head should clear.

Now I can stand on a 1 inch ledge 500' up and look straight down and feel nothing. My body has learned to trust my head.
Jim
Posted By: Mike Condron Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/12/10 01:20 AM
My nads still retract up to around my armpits just thinking about getting so close to the edges of the points. I'm not a climber.
Posted By: Rosabella Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/12/10 01:48 AM
Originally Posted By: Joel M. Baldwin


I wonder how many people get no farther than the cables due to fears?


That's what happened to me the first time I tried Half Dome... I think it was in 1999. I totally froze when I saw those cables... it looked like they were going straight up! I waited at the base of the cables while my friend went up to the top.

The following year we tried it again, and this time he promised that he would stay right behind me, and that he'd make sure I was OK. It worked.... what a THRILL to get to the top! I've got kind of a "fear of heights" issue, and I didn't think I'd make it. I was also worried about the descent, but (amazingly) I wasn't afraid at all going down...I think I was still on an adrenaline high!

I've been up four more times since then, and I still feel a bit of "nerve" going up those cables, but it's always worth it when I get to the top.
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/12/10 02:07 AM
Quote:
I hope thats a pack and not a dog yer holding...


Rofl! no it's not a dog, it's my camera pack. grin

And yeah that was a wonderful day to be in Yosemite other then the crowds, was a free day so it had even more people, that whole mess of images is here.

As for heights I have always loved being up high and with cliffs I have complete confidence in myself when I stand next to one, I often will walk up to the edge and bend out over looking down, although sometimes when I do that I like to think of what it would be like if you fell, I mean just the single second of slipping and going over the edge, that moment would be well... something. laugh
Posted By: Rod Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/12/10 04:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Mike Condron
My nads still retract up to around my armpits just thinking about getting so close to the edges of the points. I'm not a climber.


That is exactly me now.In my youth up to having kids I had no fears of heights or ledges. I have learned from having kids with no fear to have my own fears and phobias. I can't look over any ledge anymore.I also think the older you get the more cautious you become because of all the injuries suffered from sports and fearless activities start to remind you of your vulnerability.
Posted By: Fishmonger Re: Half Dome Permits - 02/15/10 02:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Fishmonger's description of those guys walking down without holding on... gives me the willies!


yup - I was pretty much expecting to witness Darwin's laws in action that day, but alas, there was no proof for his theories. It was 1988, so who knows how far those genes have spread by now smile

I haven't been to Half Dome since 1989, and when I found out a few years ago that overnight camping was not allowed any longer, I pretty much crossed that trail off my maps. Don't think I'll be going up there again. I go to the Sierras to get away from people and crowded places, not to find myself in a traffic jam. Too many people on the planet - you have to go deeper into the wilderness to get your solitude fix.

The thing about walking the slope is not the difficulty, but the fact that you have to do it all on friction, and if you make one mistake, it could very likely be your last one.

We used to wear harnesses and clip into the cable with a carabiner. I still remember how people stared at us, either thinking "why didn't I think of that myself," or "what a bunch of pussies"

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