This is an interesting missing hiker story.

"We did everything we could to try to talk him out of it," said his mother, Tammy Self. "He was leaving, no matter what."

The teen was well-prepared with gear he bought just before leaving, but had little experience of life in the wild beyond family camping trips, his parents said.

"He is not a survivalist," said his father, Victor Self, a manager at a box plant in Oklahoma City. "He is a very urban child."

"His parents last heard from him March 15, when he called from the parking lot of a motel in northern Nevada where he was spending the night in the cab of his pickup. The next day, Dustin called his girlfriend in Austin, Texas, to say he was lost after his GPS had sent him onto a road along the east side of Steens Mountain in the high desert of southeastern Oregon."

I talked to the Sheriff today on one small aspect of the search and offered help. Unfortunately, it's unlikely my suggestion would help. It's a huge area, some still under snow and the person was last seen over a month ago. One of the things we agreed on was it's too bad SAR agencies often can't move fast enough to save some of these young people who are trying to find themselves. A year or two of maturity could make a huge difference in arriving at a safer perspective where they don't risk themselves or others.

'lost after his GPS had sent him onto a road...'

How many times I want to scream when I read this statement rescue after rescue, tragedy after tragedy.

My uncle has lived in the same town for 30 years, and now he gets 'lost' because his GPS sends him down those very same 'roads'. I almost kicked out the dashboard on our last 'adventure'.

just venting

I have no solutions to offer at the risk of sounding like an insensitive jerk (that I can sometimes Bee)

PS If you don't want to get into a bad mood or have your meal disturbed: Don't read the "Most Read" story headlines or the "Editors Picks" list, either.

Now there's a contradiction in terms.

"Inspired to live of the land by "Into the Wild". There's another one

George, I love that cartoon!

A few years ago, I was on a search for some guys who were overdue following a severe fall rain and snowstorm. They were eventually spotted at the top of a waterfall. They had a GPS with them and, getting to a trail intersection, saw that the GPS said it was only about 3 miles back to their car at a straight line distance vs. about 10+ by the trail. The straight line took them down a drainage that ended at the top of the waterfall. Oooops The rain/snow hit part way down and high water prevented them from going back (also, they'd lost one pack in the river). Fortunately, they stopped there and waited for rescue.

The route down the river was pretty gnarly and got worse as they went. I asked them if they considered turning around. Nope -- because the GPS kept showing them getting closer to their car!

The other fun thing was they had tracking on so I downloaded their GPS track. You could see a bunch of points at the junction and could imagine them standing there discussing the route. I wanted to shout "NO! Don't go that way. Go the trail!"

The other thing was they were heroes in the press for "surviving." Once they were actually stuck, they did do a good job of surviving and eventually building a signal fire. But it was total testosterone poisoning and dumbness that got them stuck in the first place.

Yeah, real heroes *gag*. That (dead) guy from Into the Wild has been elevated to some sort of cult figure to a cross-section of losers who dream of, or actually attempt to emulate him.

I never feel bad when someone dies looking for themselves. Better to take the step and die while living. We are all on our own journey.

I don't know, RP....

This guy was only a kid. He died due to mistakes most of us would not make. That's the part that hurts.

I have no problem with a guy like Eric Ryback (about the same age as the others mentioned) who goes into the Sierra with the best possible preparation & experience and he has plans to actually walk out, but risks otherwise. (rather than subscribing to some sort of mystic let-the-fates-sort-it-out BS and if that doesn't work out, the beleagered SARs will have to go fetch them).In other places in the world, folks can be left to their fates -- die -- but in the States, it does not work that way.

Really? Never?

I kinda feel bad when someone dies having been inspired by a movie as superficial, misguided, and misleading as "Into the Wild". Sean Penn did a great disservice by glorifying dumb luck and rookie errors. The kid should have read the book. He might have been more inspired to actually be prepared

Most people I know who go looking for themselves put some real effort, thought and preparation into it . They do it intentionally and attentively, not on a hollywood-inspired impulse.

I read the book and saw the movie, but this seems more like sixties and seventies escapism than a desire to survive in the wild. McCandless was older, a lot more prepared, and he wasn't into drugs. Both of them simply refused to listen to common sense.

Who can fault a kid for wanting to experience freedom and exploration for a brief time in his youth. How many millions have tried something like that or wished they did. It's just sad that he chose a really bad path to find himself by getting lost and getting high. That path is well worn with lots of dead end signs along the way.

"A clean-cut bodybuilder in high school, he had lately grown his hair long and wore a bandanna around his head."

"...to see if he could live in the wild, and to investigate some churches that practice a South American religion that uses a hallucinogenic tea as a sacrament."

Thanks, George. I peed my pants laughing at your cartoon.

We all make choices in life and some of them lead to our deaths. The whole idea here is a bit too deep in a philosophical nature to go into any real detailed opinion on the matter but I still maintain that SAR choose to do their job. To think that we should dictate our lives around the idea that other people have hopelessly attached their selves to our destinies is crazy to me.

Oh, so like, if all the SAR teams went on strike-quit their jobs-balked, then the problem of suicide missions not working out would be solved? Folks could exercise free choice and die at will? In some cases, this might be a good idea (I can think of a few useless consenting adult aged individuals who should bee sent on a looooong one way hike)



Huh? Doggonit! What a great idea it would be if those first responders*doctors*SAR could just selectively decide who they reach out to, and who they could just walk away and let to expire. You are really onto something here; I could get on board with this one(drunk drivers injured in car accidents would immediately be deemed "suicidal let to expire" designees --yeah!)

And David Icke fans.
And David Icke.

The communication barrier has always been my greatest enemy. I don't pretend to understand all your points but with mentioning driving I would more accurately compare it to the idea that we should not drive because if we get in an accident then rescuers might get hurt trying to sort it out.

This whole exchange is too wasteful.

Not really: there are lessons here. Consider that it is not like being obligated not to drive, but not to drive like an idiot. Reasonable, prudent risk going into the backcountry is one thing, but going in prepared only with brand new gear, a bad movie and the wisdom of David Icke is like entering the Baja 1000 with a learner's permit and inspiration of Grand Theft Auto.

Back in my car racing days, a guy who had no racing experience told me he wished someone would give him a car to race in the Baja 1000. He said that he knew he would win if the car didn't break because he would hold it to the floor the whole way!

I had to look up who David Icke was. I am really, really sorry I did that. I'm sure synapses died in the process -- fortunately not the ones involved in remembering who Harold Ickes was, 'cause I still remember him.

I'm going to start keeping a list of people I see in the news and have no idea of context when I see the name. Kim Kardashian comes first (and, no, I don't want anyone telling me...).

Sorry about that, George. Should have attached a warning label. Toxic, hazardous waste.

Dog! You have outdone yourself.

I have been inspired by common sense to enjoy life yet do the right things and come home safely from each trip I take.

I read Into the Wild and saw the movie. I kept wondering if Christopher McCandless wished he knew more about reading a map as he slowly starved to death. While I won't come out and say he deserved to die a painful death, I do think it's a good thing he never had children................................DUG

My heroes/heroines have been the likes of Buckminster, Linus, Grace, Crick & Watson - dropped in favor of Rosalind, Turing and, of course, Deming.

I don't follow celebrities as such, but because we all need an anti-hero, I find the antics of LiLo instructive. DON'T DO THAT! Besides, the Reg has a fascinating project named LOHAN . (Low Orbit Helium Assisted Navigator). Caution: Adult humor & innuendo.

So who is David Icke? I don't want to know!

Well we all have our own opinions. As Amy Farrah Fowler once said "cultural perceptions are selective".

Search for Oklahoma teen turns to sightings in NW


GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — Sheriff's deputies on Tuesday followed up on reported sightings around the Northwest of an Oklahoma teenager whose truck was found on a remote volcanic mountain after he set out to test himself against the southeast Oregon wilderness.


More here

As I recall, McCandless didn't bring a map. I think the idea was to experience the wilderness as if he was the first person ever in that area, chart his own course so to speak. Funny how he ended up staying in an abandoned van, not too far from where he started, way short of his destination.

If I recall correctly he "researched" the area on a map before he left. I don't know if he had it with him in the bus or not. If not, he is an even bigger dummy than I previously gave him credit for............................DUG

He did not bring a map. His plan which I do see as foolish was to hike 500 miles cross country to the coast while living off the land in the early marsh mess of spring. Pulling that off would be a major accomplishment for the most skilled outdoorsman.

Then he is a McDummy. Think how much sooner he would have died without the bus.........................DUG

The guy (kid) made a colossal mistake and paid for it with his life. Some were brought up better than others, and we don't know what, if any, demons he was dealing with and possibly trying to exorcise.

It good to learn from others' mistakes, but it's also good to let the dead rest in peace. While I find a little humor and ridicule in the numerous rescues on places such as Whitney or San Jacinto's Skyline/Cactus to the Clouds, where people test themselves before they're ready; berating the dead over and over again isn't really necessary. JMHO.

Your differing opinion is noted, however I stand behind my assessment of his stupidity and disregard for those he left behind and those who discovered his remains............DUG

I'm gonna go ahead and be honest. I read Into the Wild on my first deployment to Iraq. I was inspired by it. It actually inspired me to backpack. However, I learned from the numerous mistakes he made. I think its great to try and find yourself however, you must know what you're looking for when you find it.

I think there will always be stories like this one. McCandless or Everett Ruess, there is always an adventurer that meets with peril. I think the lessons to others are important though. First, it is all about context. There are few stories told about the people that set off and do something like this and survive. Partly, because it is not much of a story if you survive.

I also think that it is interesting that the book and movie "Into the Wild" has got the play it has. Hey, I'm a giant Krakauer fan; he's one of my favorite authors. I find it interesting how people get different lessons from the book. What I got is that he was completely self absorbed, cold and cruel to his family and pretty much unprepared to set out and survive at the edge of wilderness. It was like he read Walden and didn't get the point.

I feel bad for the kid's family.

Wait, what? McCandless and Reuss in the same sentence? I assume that was for contrast rather than comparison, polar ends of some kind of spectrum. One was an extraordinary traveler, the other extraordinarily ignorant and arrogant. Whatever happened to Reuss, it was not due to lack of skills, experience and preparation for the fundamental perils of wilderness travel. In fact, I think it is fair to say that the only peril McCandless faced was his own complete lack of everything that Reuss had going for him, including a coherent vision.

Actually, I see plenty of similarities between Reuss and McCandless, as does Wikipedia's entry on Reuss

See also

Christopher McCandless, subject of Jon Krakauer's book Into the Wild and later adapted into a film by Sean Penn (2007)

Carl McCunn, wildlife photographer who became stranded in the Alaskan wilderness and eventually committed suicide when he ran out of supplies (1981)

McCandless was not ignorant, he was well educated and very well read. He was simply inexperienced and took on more of a challenge than he realized. He studied the Alaskan backcountry in books, read survival tactics, had a gun, knew how to hunt, was taught how to butcher a kill etc etc, but he just hadn't ever done it. To not bring a map was a stupid mistake, but he was not a stupid or ignorant person. He was warned about the dangers by many people, but for an invincible youth pursuing the adventure of a lifetime, common sense warnings don't mean much.

Reuss walking off into the remote Utah desert in 1934 with two burros is not all that different in my opinion. He may have had some good cowboy skills, but it was still a dangerous adventure.

Seriously ? Wikipedia? Even if wiki meant anything, the only similarity mentioned there is that Krakauer mentioned Reuss in his book. I don't call that "plenty" of anything.

As far as education and being well-read, none of that means McCandless was not ignorant in the particular endeavor that he was on: and there, he was almost completely ignorant. I have read 8 or ten books on Everest, but I have never been above 14,500, never climbed on snow or ice: I think I'll do K-2 next season: wanna come?

And c'mon: knew how to hunt? Taught to butcher a kill, etc? So how come he lost a moose that could have fed him for weeks, maybe months, and never took another one? In four months. One conversation with a guy in grain elevator is "being taught"?. As for the map, schmap. When faced with the river, he didn't even look 1/4 mile upstream or down for a possible alternative.

And if you don't see the difference between that and "Reuss walking off into the remote Utah desert in 1934 with two burros ", then on second thought, I retract the K-2 invitation. One big difference would be the two burros. Another other would be the 4 years of successful experience he had before the Utah trip.

Sorry to sound so caustic, but the idolatry and apologia heaped on McCandless, some by Krakauer but an inexcusable excess by Penn, can only feed and perpetuate the type of ignorance that leads to further possible tragedies such as may have befallen Dustin Self.

Latest news here.

"Meanwhile, another helicopter search of the area on Steens Mountain where Self's truck was abandoned found nothing either. Another ground search is planned the first weekend in May."

OK, I see your point. I think that you are correct that there are differences between the two but there are also several similarities. Each had a similar desire to wander and live apart from a consumption based society. Each had the desire for human contact but really didn't conform to society's norm. Each had family issues. McCandless exhibited selfishness by cutting off contact resulting in parental worry and Ruess had more regular contact with his family but played on his family's emotions and took more financially and emotionally than he gave.

My point is that many of us humans that are conformed to society have a curiosity about adventurers that 'drop-out.' Maybe because there is a part of many of us that wish we could do the same thing. Why else would Walden still be popular over 150 years after it was written? Thoreau only roughed it a bit compared to others. Mountain men, pioneers and explorers all lived tough, solitary lives for short stints like Thoreau but he was able to put into compelling words his experience. I think we care so much about these stories because there is a part of us that wish we could try the same thing.

Very well put, CaliHawk.

No need to demonize someone because they wrote a book and made a movie about him (and they made a lot of money on him going into the wild).

Whoa, hold on there fellas. No is demonizing McCandless because a book was written about him. Demonizing the idolizing writer and filmmaker, maybe, but they both deserve that. Simply casting a different light on McCandless in spite, literally, of the book and movie.

The similarities between McCandless and Reuss, even if apt, are quite beside the point. They do not go to the ethical question of going into the wilderness completely unprepared, the point on which they were polar opposites, and the point on which this discussion of Dustin Self took off. ANd I don't think they are in fact particularly apt. McCandless's writing's and actions show me an immature, wishful, naaivew and largely deluded sense of what he was about. His lack of real preparation Reuss's on the other hand show an incredibly mature, self aware intention and purpose, not to mention ability.

In fact, there is not a bit of evidence that anything untoward happened to Reuss. It is not easy to disappear without a trace, and the circumstantial evidence on Reuss is completely consistent with his having completely succeeded in finding his dream.

I would also be very careful about citing Thoreau on this point. It is a 20th century fantasy that Thoreau went to Walden Pond to drop out, rough it, live in a state of nature or anything of the kind. He stayed quite closely engaged with society, including the justice system, and in fact conducted his most famous exercise of civil disobedience, while residing at Walden Pond:

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practise resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms, and, if it proved to be mean, why then to get the whole and genuine meanness of it, and publish its meanness to the world; or if it were sublime, to know it by experience, and be able to give a true account of it in my next excursion."

I don't see anything here about wilderness, dropping out, living off the land, or the like, and I don't think Emerson, or anyone else that he hung out with a couple of times a week during this period, would have either.

Dog, not sure why you think the author and director were idolizing McCandless. Sure, they probably embellished for dramatic purposes, but they tell a story of a troubled young man with deep emotional family scars, who embarked on a search for a deeper meaning. The classic disenfranchised youth trying to find himself. He wasn't into drugs, he was responsible enough to finish college, gave away a small fortune to charity, then took off in an old car on a wild adventure. He met lots of interesting people, worked hard at manual labor, kayaked the Colorado river into Mexico, hopped trains, and basically lived his dreams for a brief time in his youth. The Alaska misadventure was not the whole story. I think that part of the story was portrayed as more sad than heroic. To me, the lesson is that you can't learn everything from books, that you have to experience life to learn. But take your chances carefully and don't shun help.

This thread reminds me of why I'm an engineer, and why I was frustrated with liberal arts teachers, there are so many ways to look at things and there's no right or wrong answer. At least we aren't being graded.

One thing that makes sense to me is that if a person never embarked on a wild youthful adventure to get this out of their system while they were young, then they might be more judgmental about McCandless and Dustin Self. For those who went out and did it, there is a different perspective.

I'm not sure why you think Everett Reuss was all that different. There are books and a movie about him, very similar vagabond story. He died at age 20, not exactly a seasoned old wilderness expert. Certainly more experienced than McCandless or Dustin Self, but still, he took his chances walking into very hostile territory and he lost. The name of his 2012 movie hints at similar embellishment: "Everett Reuss, Wilderness Song" I see a lot in common amongst these guys.

Interesting article about his life and 2012 movie "Wiilderness Song"

Edited to add link, correct typos and a little more

Now that's absolutely golden . . .

Thanks, BD. In fact, now that I think of it, I've seen most of Ali's fights on video, and I actually had my picture taken with Jack Dempsey: maybe I'll do Everest after all.

you guys stay at the Holiday Inn Express?

I'm gonna rent a couple donkeys and cross the Sahara this July. Maybe they'll make a movie about me.

That's pretty much what Robyn did. Not only did she succeed, but the CD/book is a modern-day classic.

She cheated - four camels and a dog.

If a "cocky, outspoken, daring and stubborn" person succeeds in one of these "lunatic gestures of independence" then they are smart and well prepared. If they die, then they are stupid and ill prepared. I get it.

It was a trip that began as a pure and (many said) lunatic gesture of independence and quickly turned into an all-out battle of wits against the forces of both nature and civilization. Cocky and outspoken, Robyn Davidson's tale is at once the probing journal of a daring and stubborn woman and a wilderness adventure of the most exhilarating sort.

Well, once a sheila gets an idea in her mind...

If you change the wording just slightly, you can apply this statement to business, too.

No, I don't think you do.

Where does Reuss fall in your comment? I am calling him smart and well prepared. Even if he died.

Who called Robyn "smart and well prepared"? I thought "some said lunatic?" In fact, she was raised on a cattle station and spent two years training and preparing with the camels. And oh, yeah, getting National Geographic sponsorship. If anyone did call her "smart and well-prepared" maybe it was because she was , well, smart and well prepared.

As for Reuss, what, did he just grab a couple of donkeys one day hanging around Valparaiso High and take off? He was, as a matter of fact, very well prepared. As attested by his known work and four years of successful experience. And as a matter of fact we don't know whether he died in 1934 or 1994.

So what exactly did McCandless do to get so smart and well-prepared? Read a book on Alaska? Had a conversation with a guy in a grain elevator in South Dakota? Kayaked a flat-water river? You would do a hell of a lot more than that to prepare for even a fully supported trip on the Stampede, even if you weren't committed to hiking its whole length without a map. Even if you were, say, only going 22 miles in and holing up in a bus.

Attacking straw doesn't really advance the discussion, does it?

Dog, we're in total agreement about McCandless and Dustin Self not "doing" enough to be prepared for their adventure. I wrote that over and over, they were not experienced. Experience is what they were looking for, and they got more than they bargained for. For McCandless, it seems he was after a very ambitious experience similar to Lewis and Clark. Since he went alone, perhaps that would be Lewis or Clark.

I think it misses the point to call some of these people smart, others stupid, some heroes, and other others fools based on their level of experience or amount of supplies they had with them or how their adventure turned out. We could continue debating endlessly about IQ scores, level of education, wilderness skills, how many camels or donkeys they took. We could rank them by categories and play Monday morning quarterback forever. No thanks. All of them seem to be reasonably intelligent and it's impossible to be 100% prepared for what they took on.

Each one knew their adventure could turn into a life or death situation, but that's part of what they were after, the adventure of it. They all seem to have deep rooted motivation for their desire to escape society by connecting with wilderness. From that perspective, they are all quite similar. I think it explains the fascination with these stories - that youthful adventurous spirit that we all have (or had) inside us. People don't read these books and watch these movies to go over gear lists, IQ scores, and transcripts.

Live and learn. If you have the capacity to learn, and continually apply those lessons going forward, you're likely to keep on living. If you over-estimate your abilities or under-appreciate risks, things can - and often do - go sideways pretty quickly. Whether it's find-yourself adventures or texting while driving, it often boils down to what degree of practical common sense a person possesses. Geniuses can be "idiots" too - a Mensa membership isn't a guarantee you won't walk distractedly into Manhattan traffic while cogitating on cold fusion.

Then there's always a sub-conscious death-wish that can account for a lot of these how-could-that-happen tragedies. Personally, I think the more alienated or anti-social a person is, the greater the likelihood of an early death.

Cold fusion being the "idiot" part?

Being a Georgia Bulldog, I naturally have a healthy suspicion (and abiding distrust) of all things Georgia Tech. This one had me in tears of hilarity when it happened:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/14/us/geo...-on-fusion.html

So, yeah - "idiot" in that example is very apropos to me . . .

TANSTAAFL!

Recognized that as a Heinleinism immediately, Dave! Re-read Moon just last year.

This really is a fun thread.

Serendipitously, I had a cold Japanese Thai Jamaican fusion salad this afternoon, two for one with a coupon.