I'm looking for the current thought on these units.

I'm thinking of picking one of these devices up primarily for use in an emergency (hoping I'd never need it) but being realistic and knowing where we all go is often far from quick help if you need it.

I've had some minor experience using a SPOT (someone else's) years ago, but it seemed pretty crude and haven't used any since.

Assuming all have similar coverage via satellite, I'd like to hear suggestions based on experience from those using these devices, particularly from any SAR personnel.

The new Delorme inReach looks interesting and has a GPS/map
A sat phone would be great but they are pricy, large and still rely on batteries which seem pretty thirsty requiring a solar charger, ie more weight.

factors to consider: features, weight, coverage, durability, capabilities, etc..

Thanks in advance

I still favor SPOT. My reasons: Family and friends can see where you are (if you use it as it is meant to be). If used for tracking, people can see that you are moving, which usually indicates you are doing ok.

PLB: I wouldn't use it, because it can ONLY be used in an emergency. Nobody knows where you are until you press the SOS button. They're good for groups hiking in avalanche zones, but not for hikers.

SPOT has several down sides:
1. People misuse them: turn them on and press the button, shut it down in 5 minutes. Signals usually don't get out that way. Should be left on 30 minutes, or hours where there are obstructions.

2. They don't work in deep canyons such as: last mile or two of the Main Mt Whitney trail; Bubbs Creek (Kings Canyon); Vernal/Nevada Falls trail in Yosemite -- all these have high cliff walls preventing line-of-site to receiving satellites.

3. They don't work in a forest -- trees block the signal.
They don't work hanging on your belt. I pin mine on my backpack shoulder strap top.


I believe Fishmonger here has said his never worked right -- signals did not get out. I don't know what would cause that, since mine has worked except in the situations described abvoe.


Spot has a "Poor man's tracking": use the Help (not SOS) button. It sends a signal every 4 minutes for 1 hour, but works with a basic subscription. A subscription that supports tracking costs more. If you use the "Help" button like that, tell people receiving it that it does NOT mean call any authorities. I might in use the "help" signal to leave bread-crumb signals when traveling in an off-trail situation.

My buddy has a satellite phone. I may borrow it this summer, if I can stand the extra weight. I'll still carry my SPOT, though.

It is my opinion that every solo hiker should carry a SPOT. The story of Larry Conn illustrates. If he had been using a SPOT, he would have been found within days. Probably not alive, but family would not have been left wondering for months, and the huge expense of time and aircraft used in the futile search -- that alone would justify giving every hiker one to carry.

An odd side story, though: I listened to a SEKI ranger present at a wilderness planning meeting. He expressed to me after the talk that he felt people could not truly experience the wilderness if they carried a SPOT or other communicator unit. IMO, that's a silly attitude, but it was real, nevertheless.

On the other side of that coin, an Inyo staff member related that they were considering giving a SPOT to their backcountry rangers to carry. Randy Morgensen's disappearance may have precipitated that.

There is a very in-depth 3 part discussion and review of devices on Backpacking light including some discussion of one way devices like SPOT:
SOTMR: Two-way Satellite Communications for Backpacking

I am thinking about renting the Yellowbrick to give it a try.

I don't think you need a subscription to get this article.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...ml#.U3TG-F6yhFw

Hmmm...Some food for thought.

The National Asscociation for Search and Rescue has this advice...

Be smart about using a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), other Satellite Emergency Notification Device (e.g. SPOT) or cell phone


1.If you answer NO! to "Would I go there without my PLB, SPOT or cell phone?", then don't go.

2.Would you normally do something that might fracture your pelvis, freeze your hands and feet, kill you by heat stroke, suffocate you under snow, drown you or get you lost by days? If your answer is NO!-then don't do it relying on your signaling device.

3. Don't think "It won't happen to me-that happens to someone else." Backcountry and wilderness travelers must know how to: Prepare for, recognize and prevent an emergency.

4. Always use these devices for the unforeseen - not as last resort tool to handle what should be foreseen. It is dangerous and irresponsible to think they "allow" going somewhere or doing shoething your are not prepared or experienced to do.

5. Carrying an electronic signaling device does not make you safe. No distress beacon or cell phone offers you warmth, shelter or first aid. They only make it easier to summon emergency help - after you are injured, lost or worst. And once rescuers have been notified, weather and terrain conditions may prevent or delay from reaching or finding you.

6. When you activate any emergency signaling device, a full-scale emergency response will begin using local, state and/or national emergency agencies. It is appropriate that a true emergency exists.

7. PLB and SPOT are useful devices that save lives. You should think a head about when to use one responsibly.

HI Rob,

I have a DeLorme InReach (original "brick"), which I purchased in the summer of 2012. I only use if when I'm going "off trail", or to a destination that I feel presents some risk. I first used it when I did the Mountaineer's Route in Sept., 2012.

As you can see it did not correctly place my first message. This is the only message/bread crumb/etc.... that has not been accurately placed.



Another time I used it was to go up Old Army Pass (June, 2013). As you can see, all positions accurately placed.



I picked DeLorme/InReach because of:
- Iridium Satellite system
- Two way text. I can both send and receive text messages (composed "on the spot")
- I can also send predefined text messages. Depending on your plan these can be free.
- "Safety Plan" is ~$11.00/month and does include some free text messages, and low cost for overage. See their web site for more details about different plans offered. They now offer a plan that you can start and stop as you like. Previously they required a minimum of 1 year.
- With SOS you can also send and receive text info to/from SAR.
- Your friends/family can follow your progress on their computers/Phones/Pads/etc... They can also initiate a text message to you (if you allow it). I discourage it. I do not need to hear how great I'm doing
- Specify how often bread crumbs are dropped
- Select from road/satellite/topo maps.
- Download maps to your phone for use when out of range of wifi or cell tower.
- etc.....

Let me know if you have any questions.

John

Years back, on Denali, my party of three declined to take a radio--although the park rangers encouraged it. Now a radio is not a SPOT, but that's all there was at the time. And Denali is not SEKI, but I'll wager that Denali has more objective danger--especially in late April/early May when we were there. However, we're talking about attitude: the tradeoff between risk and wilderness experience.

High on the mountain one of my friends contracted HAPE and frostbite, necessitating the need for rescue (which was successful). In my trip writeup I wrote:

"The decision to not carry a radio turned out OK. We had made this decision with our eyes wide open, acknowledging the risk for the following reasons: (1) weight and cost, of course; (2) inability to make radio contact until we got over to the West Buttress side (although there was the possibility of contacting aircraft flying overhead); (3) and the possibility of using other means of signaling aircraft, such as stamping out a message in the snow. But primarily it was the "intrusion" on the wilderness experience we and most other climbers look for: We felt the somewhat higher risk without a radio was worth the enhanced quality of the climb."

FYI, I do not own a SPOT, and have refused now-and-then offers of a loan. I also do not take a GPS unit or cell phone into the wilderness. But that's me.

I agree with everything in the NASAR guidelines, except #1.

Would I go there without my SPOT?

The answer ties into my thinking that nobody should visit remote locations without a SPOT. I feel much more assured heading into places where people almost never go, because I know I can send out a signal in the highly unlikely chance that an emergency occurs. Without the SPOT, I would want to hike with at least one other person, because that person would be the backup messenger. Without the signaling device, chances of ever getting out are slim. With it, it's pretty well assured.

I am looking at a summer hike that it turns out covers an almost never-used trail. If I go alone, the SPOT will be my backup messenger. Without a SPOT, if I did not show up at the exit, finding my remains would be a huge problem.


Edit: John Sims' post above shows the inaccuracies of any gps unit around Whitney Portal, and other canyon with high walls. They can get inaccurate signals or fail to send a message.
John, the DeLorme looks like it might be better than the SPOT.

Steve,

I have my own guidelines for hiking solo. I go to places I know and I do not vary from my prescribe itinerary...even when a neat ridge is calling my name.

As for electronics...I take my phone when I remember to take it. It is put in Airplane mode. I turn it on from time to time...not for a bread crumb trail but to see is there is a signal...most times there is not one.

I take a dedicated GPS on all hikes. It is usually turned off. Not to save battery life but most times I don't see the point of having it on, I've been there and done that. I carry it primarily for others. If I see someone in distress I want to be able to correspond with SAR in a languages they understand...LONG/LAT and UTM. I have been involved in an incident involving SAR. I know how long it takes to get air and ground assets to those in need.

I've researched SPOT and I do not have not found a good reason to have one. Based on what I have seen in social media, they are mostly used as toys. If I can come up with a good reason to buy one, I will. I am more inclined to buy a PLB than a SPOT-like device.

I still use Spot - the more recent model, which has a better antenna. In some environments, such as deep forest with tall trees, it doesn't always work. Leaving it on, after pressing the send button, for at least 10 minutes, seems to ensure that it has sent the email.

I have no need for a Sat Phone or the new Delorme phone or texting device.

I always like this topic, because it reveals a lot about the persons commenting about it.

My own story? I received a SPOT as a present, but because I usually hiked in heavily wooded areas, the thing kept giving off bad readins, thus, scaring the people who were trying to 'monitor" me. In a fit of frustration, I threw the thing across the room and it landed -- by luck -- in the garbage. I totally forgot about doing this, thus, I did not take the battery out....several months later, a bunch of distress signals were sent out to my designated 'watchers', and I got a bunch of calls from alarmed friends.

Uh, I guess that was the day the spot was being crushed at the landfill. ooops.

My own take on the issue is that I have had extensive 'survival' training thanks to military commandos in my life, so needless to say "ultralight" is a bad word in the household (always be prepared for the worst, and you will usually be pleasantly surprised, otherwise)

Obviously, the Spot is not a "fail-safe" device. As you say, preparedness is essential to wilderness survival. I hiked for 40 years without one.

I usually send my wife a Spot message at my turn-around point on a day hike or when I reach my campsite for the night...then she doesn't think I've run off to Las Vegas...LOL.

I chose the lightest PLB I could find for my family's peace of mind as well as my own when I hike solo. The additional gadetry of tracking and texting is interesting, but not compelling to me. But I may upgrade when my PLB battery expires.

Not

The reason that Larry was not found is that they did know precisely where to look for him in the first place. The same with the teacher lost in the Mammoth area,the guy who had to cut off his arm, etc,etc. The component missing here is not the constant contact that one gets from SPOT, rather it is in poor planning. Period. I fill out an exact 'Pre-flight' plan before I hike/backpack, along with two exit times (to expect contact) and an emergency overdue time limit. I would even go out on a limb and say that the rangers did not know exactly where to look for Randy Morgenson, either.

I do not judge anyone who wishes to carry a SPOT for numerous good reasons, but I DO object to judgement placed on those who do not carry the device (using faulty logic)

I hike solo a great deal and I own a PLB in case of emergencies. Have never had to use it but provides piece of mind to me and my family. No desire for the added bells and whistles associated with SPOT. My opinion only.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses everyone. Seems there is no perfect solution at this point.

Bill, good points you have there. The idea of a false comfort in what appears to be sort of a quasi-moral hazard of sorts it is interesting and probably true to some extent.

I can totally understand the point of "true wilderness" - one reason I don't carry a GPS, but just a map/compass.

John, interesting mapping points - is that the proprietary software that comes with the unit or a web based application that links to it? Did you figure out why it didn't place you correctly that time?

Bee, I'm sticking with my opinion here, that if Larry Conn had used a SPOT or similar on his last day hiking, even two tracking points would have shown that he was coming out heading to the trail head. A tracking point in his last 12 hours of hiking would have been a huge clue. He posted regularly on the HST forum, and talked about never following a planned itinerary. So a signal would have helped. You give specific itineraries and exit times. Others always hike with one or more friends. Everyone has their methods. It is the lone hiker with a variable itinerary who is really difficult to track down.

nyker, as I pointed out above, signals can be way off when you're down in a canyon area like Whitney Portal. SPOTs do the same thing there -- that is if they can even transmit a signal.

As for that "true wilderness" experience, THAT is a personal judgement call. I kind of adopt whatever high-tech device I can get my hands on to help me get where I want. One could be a purist like John Muir: No map, no bedding, only a bag of biscuits. Though he probably wore boots, while the Indians might have worn moccasins ...or even traveled barefoot.

A signal would have helped. An itinerary would have helped. Stopping sooner would have helped.

He chose not to pin a Spot to his pack, knowingly. Perhaps if he would have been inclined to a lot of choices, the outcome would have been different. I just contend that even something simpler than a SPOT would have changed things.

You can keep your opinion, pin on your SPOT, but do not be misled into thinking that everyone will be saved by the button.

I'm a big hike your hike guy. If you want a true wilderness experience...whatever that is, go for it. I have "true wilderness" experiences all the time on trail that have hundreds of people on them during a weekend day, just by leaving early or late and returns via ridges and drainages. Wilderness is what you make it.

I'm a big don't count on technology to make up for a lack of skill guy. A SPOT is not going to save your ass, if you are in John Muir Wilderness and that device says you are in the Alabama Hills...this did happen a few years ago. However, knowing how to read a map will and use a compass with that map will.

Have a good map...not something masquerading as a map like many short cutter use to save a few pennies, compass, altimeter and most importantly skills. Before you go out to a place you have not been study the map so you know what to expect. The first time I did Mt. Whitney there were no surprises because I knew what to expect and when...just by studying the map.

In the case of Larry Conn, GPS tracking of any kind mostly likely would've saved a lot of searching effort by others, if not himself. To your point Bee, there's now a pre-hike form in his name to encourage better planning.

It might seem low-tech, but there's a lot of technology that goes into making and printing a modern shaded contour trail map. Is that too much tech for wilderness purists? Should we rely on moss and shadows entirely? Is an altimeter okay? I don't see the point in trying to escape useful technology. How it's used is what really matters, IMHO. Satellite tracking is not the same as playing a video game on your phone while hiking over a breathtaking pass.

It is a very nice format, the new hiking planner. I need to download a copy and make a copy supply.

Do we have the itinerary somewhere on the board?

Interesting survey: I started asking some of my friends who "wander" (those who do not like to make a pre-flight hike plan) about how far do they wander off of a set entrance and exit. Almost all of the answers were "we see a peak,gully,formation in the near vacinity and want to explore". I asked about how far away from 'the intended path' most of these variations were, and by and large, most of them were no further than a mile or two at the very most.

I still concluded that an intended entrance/exit plan would still put searchers within a mile of where most 'wanderers' would be found.

A couple counter points, Bee. Solo explorers might typically wander only a mile from a trail, but there are many peaks, gullies, and other formations along most trails. So a good itinerary may constrain the search within a 2-mile corridor (1-mile either way), but it could still be many square miles to search. And there's still a chance that a major route deviation occurred. A transmitter sending location data regularly would narrow it down very precisely. However, in the case of a sudden lethal fall, a PLB wouldn't help if the hiker isn't able to operate it.

Bee,

Like people at Mt. Whitney, things can be done stupidly and 99% of the time they turn out ok. It's the 1% that gets'ya.

I had a person glissade past me on Mt. Baldy with crampons on and the axe in a total weird postion. She got to the bottom without any injury. You can "wander" and not have any problems 99% of the time but if you step on a floating rock and break an ankle in a canyon that see little to no traffic, you are going to be in trouble...even with a SPOT. I severely sprained ankle doing just that last summer. I was with someone but if I broke and was by myself, I would have been screwed...big time. This is why I do not vary off an itinerary when I am by myself.

In light of the recent death on Mt. Whitney perhaps this topic is worth re-consideration.

While others offer very good alternative solutions (map and compass, entrance/exit plans, etc….) the reality is that had John Likely been using a SPOT/InReach he would have been located much sooner (IMO).

There are several options available that offer the option of sending out a “SOS”, and/or leaving tracking points, that could easily save someone’s life, or enable the finding of someone who is lost and (for whatever reason) unable to send out a “SOS”. For those of you that have been on S&R events I would think that you would appreciate any additional information as to the location of the missing hiker. While these devices are not "fail safe" they certainly would have been of immense value while looking for John (had he carried one). While the signals coming (or not coming) from a deep chute might not be consistent, those leading up to the event would have given S&R a time/distance limit as to his last (reliably) known position. In this case I believe the location of John's body would have certainly been known sooner.

We all use calculators today. Who does square root function by hand? Why not use today’s technology for location/navigation services? Sure, map and compass is fairly fail safe, but so are today’s electronic tools. We all use flashlights, wear boots with sticky bottoms, use advanced climbing tools (for those who do technical climbing). Why are we so slow to adopt electronic navigation and communication tools? I certainly understand that today’s electronic tools have their limitations (and do not advocate abandonment of map and compass) and need to be used with those limitations in mind, but that said, they do offer many advantages for those who are able to adopt newer technologies.

I appreciate the preference for a "wilderness" experience, but the user is in control as to how the device is used. Simply limit any intrusive activity (If you prefer, choose not to activate the emergency option, even in the face of death – at least S&R will be able to recover your body for your loved ones). Only allow outgoing tracking. There is no intrusion if used in this fashion (IMO).

Or, what about this hypothetical question: What if I come across you in a remote location, where you have broken your leg, and cannot move. Would you prefer that I not activate the SOS function of my InReach Satellite device, and ask only that I hike back to civilization in order to find a land line (no new fangled cell phones allowed) in order to call for help?

Anyway, my two cents.

Yet I was told by a SEKI ranger that he thought someone carrying a SPOT or similar communicator device was not having a true "Wilderness Experience". It was, of course, just his personal opinion, and I would disagree strongly.

John, we can't make people carry those units, but I carry mine, and think more people should.

"Or, what about this hypothetical question: What if I come across you in a remote location, where you have broken your leg, and cannot move. Would you prefer that I not activate the SOS function of my InReach Satellite device, and ask only that I hike back to civilization in order to find a land line (no new fangled cell phones allowed) in order to call for help?"

There seems to be a general misunderstanding as to what people mean by the quality of their activity.

We all seem to use analogies, so here's mine: a lot of people have been on a trapeze, but it is an altogether different experience to use a trapeze WITHOUT A NET. There are those people in the world who want to experience the outdoors on it's terms, not "made safer" or some might say "dumbed down". That is not how most people look at these activities, I realize, and are happy to use whatever makes the trip easier and safer. Personally, I think it is great to have a variety of ways to do things.

There has been a tradition of some people to use an approach similar to the "old ways". I know a guy who trekked to Everest Base Camp wearing clothing that imitated that which Hillary wore. I wouldn't do that, but it was important to him.

My fellow professional sailing instructor, Yoh Aoki sailed the 21-foot sailboat that he built at home around the world. He had no GPS, no radio, no engine, no Sat Phone. It is not particularly rare for people to do this each year. They are typically in highly engineered 40-50 foot boats loaded with electronics. Good for them. Some make it. But they will NEVER, EVER be able to say they sailed around the planet "just like Yoh".

I don't quite understand the position that doing things a different way than the way that person prefers to do them is illegitimate.

And John, I'm sure that the trapeze user who has an accident without a net would like you to use your cell phone to call 911. Why would someone in the wilderness be different? The game is not carrying the electronics, but it does not extend to not accepting help from those you encounter. That would have been true in 1850. Whaddaya expect? We'll drag our sorry bodies out of the way so you don't know we're there?

Frankly, the refrain that people are stupid because they (don't carry a PLB, Sat Phone, water filter, use hot food, wear the "right" footwear, wear cotton, have accidents, are affected by lack of oxygen, die) just gets a little old.

Life is a terminal condition.

Well, I suppose the expression "Wilderness Experience" needs to be better defined. If it means seclusion and being "at one" with nature, then my point about these devices being non intrusive (if used appropriately) applies. If the definition is slanted more toward being in the wilderness without access to modern comforts and conveniences then those wanting that experience should discard their vibram soled shoes, down puff jackets, water proof shells, light weight cooking kit, etc..., strap on some leather soled or hobnail boots, canvas breeches, wool coats, oil skin slickers, etc....., and pray it does not rain.

Of course it is a personal decision as to the use of one of these devices, but like you, I will continue to carry my InReach when I feel the situation warrants it. Based on John Likely's experience I will most probably lower my "risk threshold" for deciding when to bring it along. For instance, in the past, I've not carried it for the Main trail. In the future I will.

Why aren't PLB's a more popular choice? It seems the discussion is usually between carrying a Spot (or DeLorme InReach) or nothing.

For hiking purists, I can definitely appreciate not needing or wanting a device for sending breadcrumbs or texting cheery messages to relatives. Heck, the point of these trips for many people is to be AWAY, not to live-blog their trip. If others want and enjoy that kind of connectivity, fine, but it's not for everyone.

But for that true emergency when your hiking buddy (or you) falls down a cliff and breaks his leg, why not carry a PLB? That's exactly what they're designed for. I view it in the same category as carrying an emergency whistle or building a signal fire.

My second analogy: free solo climbing

There are those who like to do this sort of climbing, which means that you are up on the rock with no protection of any kind. You are not attached to anything. They say the sensation of accomplishment is unbelievable, and that those who don't know the apex of living.

Many people find this insane, however I think it is a matter of degree. Is free soloing insane on 3rd class rock, like many of us do and have done? YES,THAT IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK. Many people climb the MR unroped, in fact, most. The professionals all use ropes with their clients. Hmmmm.

It all comes down to VALUES. People value different things differently.

John wants to tell us how to hike based upon his values:

"those wanting that experience should discard their vibram soled shoes, down puff jackets, water proof shells, light weight cooking kit, etc..., strap on some leather soled or hobnail boots, canvas breeches, wool coats, oil skin slickers, etc....., and pray it does not rain."

Doesn't seem to be any room in John's world for people making their own decisions without derision.

Oh, the decision about PLB's vs the Spot, etc seems to be one primarily of cost. Same for Sat Phones, which is what the professionals use.

Hi Ken,

Really? I want to tell folks how to hike based on my values? Where did you see that? I clearly stated above that the use (or non use) of these devices is a personal decision.

I absolutely agree with you that people should be free to “do things as they like”. No requirement to carry electronic gizmos, or even map and compass of that is their preference.

My point is that these devices are reliable/useful devices, and can serve as an important tool for those who choose to use them. Simple as that. In my opinion Larry Conn and John Likely would have both been found sooner (in Larry Conn’s case up to 7 months sooner) had they been using one of these devices. I only mention this to illustrate how the devices can be useful. They both chose not to use them. Their decision, their fate. I do wonder if they considered their families points of view when they made their decisions.

While my hypothetical question was (and still is) a bit “tongue in cheek”, let’s assume for a moment that the found party was of the type that likes to hike “in the old ways”. In that case, wouldn’t he/she expect to get the same help he/she would have gotten 150 years ago? Wouldn’t they prefer that I not violate the sanctity of their “Wilderness Experience” and that I not use a modern convenience, and prefer that I only make haste to hike out and contact S&R.? Even though that would likely mean no help for 24 hours, and so what that mountain lions do inhabit the area? Of course if this (unlikely) situation did arise I would “ring up” S&R. I certainly would not want to feel responsibility for the fate of the injured hiker if I did not do all that I could, but I might enjoy watching the individual reconsider their point of view about the use of these modern conveniences.

Honestly, I do not consider those who choose not to carry one of these devices as stupid. I never use it to walk down to the local 7-11 to pick up a six pack. In fact I only carry it for 5% of my hiking activity. I only carry it for those hikes that I think represent a sufficient risk that warrants the use of the device. I fully recognize that different people have different thresholds for acceptable risk. I could never do what Alex Honnold or Yoh Aoki have done, but then again, I do not care to.

Clearly I am an advocate for the adoption of newer technology. Why not? It works, and in light of some of the risks presented does not cost much. Just my point of view.

John, that's fair to advocate for what you believe, certainly I'm guilty of that.

To me, though, when you cross over into using the word "SHOULD", you are now telling people what to do, not what you do.

there are those who would say that you are not using the device correctly, if you don't use it on each and every hike. "you should" defines what THEY think that YOU should be doing, and it clearly implies that if you are not doing what you should, then you are doing what you should NOT. That is a criticism.

By the way, it was thought that Larry Conn had a heart attack. Interesting that you think you are immune to those on 95% of your hikes. I find my confidence in that has gone down with time.

As for your hypothetical, I don't think that people asking for help for a severe situation are in a position to tell the rescuer how to do things.

I also think it is disingenuous to say that simply having such a device on one's body will help recoveries.....they will not.
You have to have the right subscription for the device to be able to have it monitor your steps. But of course, I guess one "should"......

"I do wonder if they considered their families points of view when they made their decisions."

Have no doubt that is the sentiment cast upon every hiker, with or without a SPOT, who requires a rescue. It was the exact same criticism leveled 100 times against the climbers on Mt. Hood who DID have a SPOT who died, anyway.

Society considers us in a risky pursuit of fun, whether they "should", or not.

My my, but you do take things literally

Do you use either a SPOT, InReach, or some other satellite communications device?

Interesting that you are now recommending how I should or should not use my InReach.

Do you understand the concept of "tongue in cheek"?

Although what I have to say on this topic has nothing to do with the debate currently going on, I will say that I carry a SPOT with me most every hike I'm on. In an emergency, I'd rather have a shot at getting help than no shot at all.

That being said, I just thought I'd tell you all that a friend of mine just today finished the 211 mile hike on the John Muir trail at the Whitney Portal. He carried his DeLorme In Reach, and he and I were able to communicate throughout his entire trek. I was able to get him weather, look up routes for climbing peaks that interested him, etc. It was actually pretty impressive.

Just thought I'd throw that out there for y'all.

There is no point in quibbling over the differences in the meaning of "should". Just stop.

Answering Steve Chamberlin's q, "Why aren't PLB's a more popular choice? It seems the discussion is usually between carrying a Spot (or DeLorme InReach) or nothing":

Because leaving bread crumbs tells family and friends (and SAR if necessary) that you are moving and ok, and gives a last known location. LKL would have saved a few $100K in the search for Larry Conn, and lots of anguish for family and friends. A lone hiker with a PLB who has a sudden accident as Likely probably did cannot use a PLB. Sat phone doesn't help a SAR if one is incapacitated, either. Bread crumbs are the most effective tool in that situation. If not incapacitated, then any of those tools would work.

In Likely's case, IF he had been using a bread crumbs feature, rescue or recovery would have been completed in less than 24 hours.

"My my, but you do take things literally whistle

Do you use either a SPOT, InReach, or some other satellite communications device?

Interesting that you are now recommending how I should or should not use my InReach.

Do you understand the concept of "tongue in cheek"?"
----------------------------------------------
Well, I'll be the first to testify that joking, irony, and sarcasm often do not translate well on the 'net. If I've misunderstood you, I apologize if my responses seemed inappropriate to your meaning.

I have never used a communication device, although I have been on hikes where others did. When I am on a trail crew, I am required to carry a USFS radio, that generally work everywhere, using the USFS system of repeaters. I hate them, but am required to have them. I see the utility, and agree to their need in that setting, but I am not on a recreational hike, either.

I'm not sure if you are serious, but I am not recommending IN ANY WAY how you should use your devices. I am putting forth the argument that many members of the public would make, and do make. I consider them just as irrelevant to you, as yours is to others....about what you "should" do, or any other hiker "should" do.

Steve:
I started using SPOT these past 5 years and my family is very happy after I got it. Previously they used to worry about my once in a year wilderness disappearances and were always grumbling when I excitedly tell them about my upcoming adventure.
Last year during my JMT trip SPOT did not work for 3 days and it really thru a scare and my daughter started calling police and rangers in Lone Pine and Innoyo NP and also called Banner Packers (whose name and tel no are collected from my emails). Finally one Ranger assured her that SPOT is having issues. SPOT really did not acknowledge their outage (which in my opinion they should have done immediately at least to all those email addresses they have on their servers) and the families were left in dark.
Actually my daughter is asking about any alternative I found to SPOT or am I carrying something else just in case SPOT does not work!
I am still planning on carrying SPOT but is there any way we can force them to acknowledge any server failures immediately to the families? Just wondering.

I was watching saltydog last summer when that happened, too, so I understand the trouble it caused. It was caused by a back-end software upgrade that failed. The computer techs tried the upgrade, and it failed. But they never informed their customer support side of the company. Some techi-geek was clueless about the number of people who were depending on the service. There is no way customer service / helpdesk people can do anything if they don't even know there is a problem.

Here's the link to last summer's issue:   Spot Satellite Messenger problems

Note that John Sims' InReach was working fine during that time.

Personally I don't carry any of these devices. My one experience using a SPOT mirrored Krishna's. On the JMT I had agreed to send an OK message every evening when I made camp. Several times the SPOT message didn't get though, making my family much more worried than if I hadn't carried the SPOT in the first place. When I later aborted my trip on day 15, I pressed the HELP (not SOS) button, which I had previously agreed with a friend would be my way of signaling an early exit. But my mother didn't know this, and when she started receiving emails every 5 minutes that said "HELP!" in all caps, she panicked and called the forest service, sheriff, and everyone else she could think of. It took me almost 24 hours to reach a phone, during which time she was worried sick. The experience convinced me that in some cases, poor communication is worse than no communication.

As I understand it, the advantage of a PLB is that when it comes to the all-important task of summoning an emergency team to save your life, it's far more likely to succeed than a SPOT or InReach. It uses a different, reportedly more reliable satellite network (COSPAS/SARSAT rather than Iridium or Globalstar), transmits to satellites with much stronger radio power (5 watts vs 1.6W on the InReach and 0.4W on the SPOT), and also emits a local area homing beacon at 121.5MHz in addition to the satellite signal. The ResQLink PLB even has a strobe light, weighs less than both InReach and SPOT, and costs less over 2-3 years when you factor in the subscription costs of the other two. Unless I'm missing something, the choice between these three seems like a no-brainer as the PLB is clearly best, unless you value messaging more highly than getting rescued in an emergency.

With the recent events on Whitney, my wife is encouraging me to look into one of these devices again.

I like the looks of this:

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreach-explorer.php

Does anyone know, does tracking points and intervals refer to what is posted on a website, or what is recorded on the device itself?

If I read it on the website correctly, it does both. I was just doing some reading on the screen edition In Reach.

I'm very tempted to go with the In Reach, but the monthly costs are very prohibiting.

I watched the video and in it you can see a place to change the 'Log Interval.' I would assume that changes the interval at which trackpoints as saved for a gpx file.

The cost is prohibitive for me too. If I bought one, it looks like it would cost me $700 for the first year ( The Recreation Plan + the cost of the device).

That's about the number I came up with as well. They do have the Freedom Plan that allows you to choose what months you want it active for, but I don't see that saving me a whole lot of money since I hike year round.

I came up with $615 for 6 months.

I have an older model InReach, but the plan costs are the same. I use the "saftey" plan, so it is only $11.95/month. I could switch to the freedom plan for $14.95/month, but that will not save me any money if I am using it every month. Total plan costs per year for Safety Plan:
- Activation costs: $19.95
- Monthly costs: $11.95/month or $143.40/year
Total first years cost: $163.35 Plus "overage charges"
Since I have been on this plan for a couple of years my annual cost for the plan is $143.40/year.
Cost of equipment: $299.95 list. I bought my older unit from REI on sale for $50.00 off, plus 10% REI rebate. If you buy at full list from REI your cost is 10% less, or $269.96.
So, total first years cost (not including overages):
Activation: 19.95
Monthly cost: 11.95 or $143.40
Equipment cost: $269.96 (plus tax)
Total cost for first year: $433.30
There after annual cost is: $143.40

Overage costs: They do not need to be excessive, because:
- Pre-programmed messages are free. Send as many as you wish - no charge. Limitation is only 3 predefined messages. For example: Starting hike, All is OK, Finished Hike. Really, you do not need anymore, but you have the option to send custom messages as you like for the cost of: $.50 each. This is a bit understated because if you send it to three people you will be charged for 3 messages (could be 4 since you will also want to send it to to your map for others to see). Also, if you allow it, others can send you messages, which will also cost $.50 each. so you overage costs are primarily determined by your own usage. The tracking points cost $.10 each, but I set mine to drop a crumb every 30 minutes, so a long hike (10 hours) will only cost $2.00. Not too bad IMO.

Messages work best when used in conjunction with a smart phone. Better keyboard, better/bigger display, etc.....

In answer to the question about the map: You will have a web address for "Your" map. Pass out the address to anyone you like, and they can track your progress (provided they have access to the web). No charge.

While the first year's cost may seem high, thereafter it does not seem prohibitive to me.

One disclaimer: Since I own an older model, I am not "positive" as to the operation of the SE model, but I "think" is know how it works. The Earthlink app on your smart phone also give you access to fairly good maps at no charge. For more information the REI web site is actually fairly good: http://www.rei.com/product/857610/delorme-inreach-se-2-way-satellite-communicator

One other important difference between the InReach and the SPOT: The InReach tells you if the message has been sent, or not. It does need to find a Satellite, so it may take a few minutes for the message to be sent, but when it is sent you will know it. No ambiguity.

Steve: It takes some care to set up the Spot so people like your mom won't get the wrong ideas. On mine, I changed the help message to something that says "I am NOT asking for help, it is just a custom message." Spot has a custom message that can be pre-programmed, and it can be set to mean something too. I do NOT have spot send emails to people, except maybe one person. Your experience shows why.

Second, SPOT should be used more frequently during the day. Lithium batteries are NOT that expensive, and they last for nearly two weeks if you use the tracking mode. My son used mine like you, sending one message occasionally, and his experience was the same: he turned it on, sent a signal and turned it off. The units need to be left running AT LEAST 30 minutes to ensure a signal reaches a satellite. If there are any obstructions like high canyon walls, or trees in a forest, then leaving it on much longer (hours) is necessary.

For those worried about cost, the SPOT units withOUT tracking can be used. My "poor man's" tracking mode works: Use the Help button. It will send a tracking signal every 4 minutes for an hour, then quits. Using that several times a day shows people you are moving and doing fine.

I would not hesitate to use the SPOT with an emergency situation. It's tracking/bread crumbs mode is really useful, where a PLB can ONLY be used in an emergency. SPOT's signal will get out most places, and the SOS is sent every few minutes to ensure it goes out.

Edit: Adding this: The InReach advantage is the ability to send and receive messages. But with the added cost, you have to decide.

Steve, you seem to know your stuff regarding SPOT, so if you don't mind my asking:

Is there any reason not to use the "Help" button to customize another message that just says something completely unrelated to needing help? Like if I customized it to say "This is where I'll be spending the night." or something to that effect. Would that work, or would a help message be sent to someone other than the folks I have on the customized list when I push the help button?

I've never taken any electronics on my various solo trips over the years. As L Conn had expressed @ HST, he felt in more danger driving up to the E Sierra from LA than in the mountains. I almost always take the 395 from the 15, and I'm one of those guys way over straddling the right lane marker.

And, of course, I never run that stretch at night - especially when the drunks are out between midnight and 2-3am. So, if I take off from OC around 4am, I can hit that stretch @ 5am, and it's just me, some truckers and maybe a few early-bird RVs.

However, ever since the Heng incident on Langley, when I followed the same route up 2 days later, but then went down to Miter, then over Crabtree, and then to Whitney, my wife has become a little more "involved".

My last trip on the PCT was typically uneventful, but then the trip down from Whitney was a little more interesting. Then the recent SAR events off the main trail got me to finally read this thread, and here I am.

I like the bread crumbs feature - considering that most of the recent incidents have been falls (and in my case since I do moderate x-c, that would be my most likely accident), it doesn't seem like anyone would be in any condition to activate a PLB.

The SPOT device seems to continue having critics, so I read with interest about the InReach communicator. Bottom line, I am joining the dark side, so my question is: which model, the good 'ole SE or something else?

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreachse.php

The InReach Canada web site has a good comparison of the two current InReach models (Explorer, and SE): http://www.inreachcanada.com/compare-devices

For me, the extra features of the Explorer are not worth the extra money. The trip planning I would prefer to do on the computer, the compass/accelerometer function, detailed logging I have on my iPhone, and the others features do not seem important to me or are otherwise available with the iPhone. My Older unit (I call it the brick) does the same as the SE, except that there is no display, so that you really need the iPhone for it to have the maps and messaging function. If I were purchasing new I would just go with the SE.

The Help, I think, still shows up as "Help" on the shared page. But SPOT also has a second "custom" button that shows "Custom Message" or something you can program. I just tell people that if I really need help, I'll use the SOS button.

It also has the OK/Check In button. Most people use that one to identify camping sites or trail junctions.

I guess what I'm really curious about is whether or not hitting the "help" button when I don't really need help will have authorities looking for me. I know that's the purpose of the SOS button, so I'm assuming the "help" button only alerts the folks I designate on the list, correct?

I think I'll just turn the thing on and give it a go in the back yard.

How do you use your iPhone to log? Do you use it in conjunction with the Delorme?



I believe the "help" button is for non-emergency help. It doesn't alert the authorities.

The SPOT's SOS button is the only one that is monitored by the company. All the rest just go to those you set on the web page. In addition, I think you can say whether or not the help messages do or don't go on the shared (map) page.

It is curious, too, that SOS signals do NOT appear on the shared page. ...or so I am told, since I've never used it.

I did leave the SPOT on for ~30 minutes or more at each campsite, but apparently that wasn't enough since some of the messages never got through. I think that's the big disadvantage of the SPOT - there's no feedback to tell you if your message was delivered. If the non-receipt of a message is going to make a family member nervous, that's no good. The InReach seems much nicer in that respect.

If you're going to fall unconscious or die, then I certainly agree leaving constant breadcrumbs is the only way to help SAR, since you won't be able to press the SOS button. I wonder how many accidents fall into that category, though, vs broken limbs, hypothermia, or other incidents where you would be able to press SOS. And if you're hiking with a partner, he can press SOS on his device even if you're unconscious. Maybe I'm way off, but I would guess that emergencies where there's nobody conscious who could press an SOS button are a small fraction of all backcountry emergencies. I'd be interested to see some statistics on this.

Focusing on those "SOS button emergencies", the most important thing to me is that my message actually gets through. The technical design of a PLB tells me it should be much more reliable at sending an SOS to the outside world. Now maybe it's a case where SPOT is 99% reliable for emergencies and a PLB is 99.9%, I don't know. But given my past experience with the SPOT I wouldn't trust it in a life-threatening situation. I don't mean to be preachy or denigrate other people's choices, but I view these devices like a fire extinguisher. The only factor that really matters is how well it works in an emergency situation. This is where I think a PLB shines above the alternatives.

Well, I do use it in conjunction with the InReach. They have an app - Earthmate. It is the app through which you set tracking interval, send/receive messages, view map, etc....

However, for other functions I also use other apps. I normally have at least two other apps running:
1. GPS4Cam - This app will keep track of your location/time, and sync with your photos to add Lat/Lon info into your photo exif file. I forget what the cost was. Perhaps $4.99 or less.
2. Sports Tracker. This app will log your time/speed/altitude every hour. Also has HR monitor available if you want to keep track of your Heart Rate. App is free. HR monitor not.
3. Another app that I like is ViewRanger. With it you can download maps and gpx tracks to your iPhone/Android. Good display of your track vs downloaded gpx track.
4 Many more apps available. They all seem to run fine together.

Got it - ordered the SE.

John,

In order to use these apps, I assume you can't put your phone in airplane mode, correct?

I've found that my iPhone is pretty much useless for tracking, since he batteries run out so fast if it isn't in airplane mode. I miss my android phone. It actually tracked well and had decent battery life. I used to put it in airplane mode, then turn on the GPS.


Please let us know your experience with it. Since we're somewhat local to each other, I would love to check it out in person sometime, if we happen to be interested in doing the same hike at some point. I'm also very interested in your UL gear.

Check out the Bad Elf for the iPhone. I've used it for years, but it won't work with the iPhones stock moving map. You have to use it with another mapping app for it to work in airplane mode.

It even works in the cockpits of some airplanes. I used Bad Elf with my iPad for a long time with pretty great success.

I've got the SE and am impressed so far.

Re airplane mode - iOS will let you run bluetooth with airplane mode on, in which case I think the iphone (i've only done it with an ipad) will use the GPS signal from the inreach. That said, I don't plan to take a smartphone, I found the onscreen keyboard on the SE was easy enough to use, and you can pre-write an unlimited number of messages on your PC first and download them to the device.

The cost struck me as very reasonable for the way I use it - $25/year subscription (on the "freedom" plan) plus $15 per month each month I need it (basically 3 months for ski touring and one for hiking). No activation fee on this pricing plan.

For my hike this summer, since I'm with friends and kids, I'll probably take the all-you-can-eat $65 package for a month and send/receive unlimited messages. This makes it $135/year, or $85 if I just take 4 months basic usage.

You can configure the tracking point interval from every 10 mins to every 4 hours (or off entirely). It also only sends a tracking point if its moved >100m so effectively goes into a low power/sleep mode at night.

I'm confused by the HELP and SOS buttons. Why have a design that includes both?

What would a non-emergency HELP situation be? I can't imagine a scenario where I am in the wilderness yelling HELP when it is not an emergency!

I understand the process to customize it and tell people you will use HELP differently but why was it designed that way in the first place?

Source: http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=102
SOS: Use this function In the event of a life threatening or other critical emergency to notify emergency services of your GPS location and that you need assistance. The GEOS International Emergency Response Center alerts the appropriate agencies worldwide – for example contacting 9-1-1 responders in North America and 1-1-2 responders in Europe.

Help: In the event of a non-life threatening emergency, you can use this function to notify your personal contacts that you need assistance. Additional SPOT Assist services can be purchased and programmed to your Help button as well. When activated with SPOT Assist, the Help button will notify professional services either on the land or water. SPOT has partnered with national service providers to offer non-life threatening assistance.

63Chevyll,

The answer is a little complicated (and may be different for the SE vs. my old brick. In fact, I "guess" much, but not all, of the iPhone utility is included in the SE unit):
- The InReach operates both "on its own", and in conjunction with the iPhone/Android app - Earthmate. You can turn tracking on/off and send the pre-programmed messages without the iPhone being turned on or even present. In this case your iPhone battery usage is zero. However, to get the full utility from the InReach it is necessary for the iPhone to be left on with the Earthmate application running (but make sure the display is not left on). Bigger map/keyboard, custom messages, receive messages, etc... It may be that this utility is also present with the SE, so your dependence on the iPhone may be less. The app will run in the background, so you are free to use other applications as you like.

Using the Earthmate app requires that you NOT put your phone in airplane mode. While the InReach device has its own gps, the mapping function on your iPhone uses the internal GPS. This is also true for other applications that you may want to use (GPS4CAM, SportsTracker, ViewRanger, etc....)

Even running several apps concurrently I have not had a problem with battery life. I find that WIFI is the biggest drain (if left on to search for nearby WIFI stations). I simply turn off WIFI, and leave bluetooth on. I easily get 12 hours from the iPhone 5 battery. I also use a mophie case that includes a battery, good for over one full charge. The last hike where I used the InReach lasted 8.5 hours and I had over 60% of the internal battery left, with no use of the mophie case battery. It adds a bit of weight, but also provides protection for the iPhone. With it, and the regular battery I'm good for at least 24 hours. Since I only do day hikes (For sleeping I prefer air conditioning, hot/cold running water, clean sheets, etc...) this is more than ample. I also have an ANKER 6000 mAh battery that I could take along, that would extend the time of use to several days. Beyond that, I'm afraid you will need a solar panel.

Regards,

John

EDIT: You could also rely on the SE unit for all non iPhone unique functions, only turning the iPhone on for those functions limited to iPhone availability. Then I guess you would get many days use from the iPhone battery. There may some loss of function by running this way, but it is another option.

Maybe I am just being dense but I still don't get it. If you are out in the wilderness, what is a "non-life threatening emergency"? (Actually, forget the wilderness part. If I am in the city, what is a "non-life threatening emergency"?)

Can someone provide an example scenario?

In other words I am assuming that if I am in a situation that I can't get myself out of, I don't have any "personal contacts" that would be able to assist. I am assuming that is the case for most people.

I tend to agree with you, which is why I asked the question I asked earlier about the ramifications for hitting the help button. I have decided that my help button is going to be my new "bad news" button, and have a message saying that I'll be gone an extra night or something to that effect.

These devices aren't designed solely for hikers, climbers, and backpackers though. I would imagine the situation you're looking for might be some kind of car trouble if the carrier is driving a long distance, or even a maritime incident where you're stuck off shore with no gas, but don't need a search party to come find you.

in 2010 my daughter fainted on the trail down to Woods Creek. Just tipped over while sitting next to me. Came back a moment later, but we were pretty rattled. Would have loved to talk to a medical professional to double check what could be wrong with her. It wasn't a reason to call the rescue posse, as we walked out over Whitney a few days later (where she fainted again in the Portal Store...). Never really figured out what happened those days, but it was always at moments of rest.

That episode was the reason why I let my Spot subscription expire and bought a sat phone. I now have nurse # and SAR and Sheriff numbers programmed into the phone. I can send and receive texts for weather updates and other basic communication, but when I have to, I can actually talk to somebody who may be able to help. The phone has GPS, and I have another GPS, so sending location info is going to be quite accurate, too.

If I hiked alone, always, I probably would get some sort of locator device, but in a group, the phone works well for us, plus it comes in handy for things like trailhead rendezvous scheduling, or calling a tow truck from US 6 between Ely and Tonopah.

Check out syncope. Ask me how I know!

Yes, the Help function is pretty much worthless in backpacking. Friends can't drop everything and come to your aid. It only raises concern. That's why I use it as a "poor man's tracking" function -- it's an alternate use.

GandC is right: they aren't just for hikers. Spot is marketing to lots of other groups besides hikers.

Posted on Facebook by Stacy:

==========================

From the "Inyo County Sheriff" website:
"Yesterday morning at 9:20AM Inyo County Sheriff’s Dispatch received notification that a SPOT device had been activated with the approximate coordinates of Little Whitney Meadow – west of Lone Pine in the high Sierra’s. Seth Baker, a 29-year old man out of Bakersfield, CA was camping with six friends, when (according to Baker) he was bucked off his mule after he and his friends were racing their mules across a meadow. Baker hit the ground with the left side of his body, and attempted to “walk off the pain”. By the following morning (the 24th) Baker was unable to move. One of the campers had a SPOT device and activated it for help. California Highway Patrol (CHP) helicopter H80, out of Apple Valley, responded to Baker's location, and transported him to the Lone Pine Airport where he was met by an ambulance to further transport him to Southern Inyo Hospital for treatment."
SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!!!
Steve, maybe they need to do the same thing up here in the Sierra...charge for rescue based on the stupidity of the situation. Mule Racing? REALLY??

Not to be argumentative, but I do wonder if carrying a spot-type device leads people to engage in riskier behavior. This has certainly been documented for Avi beacons.

I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe that, but of course it has not been studied. The human mind is a funny thing.

Even that might not stop them. I know that with my subscription, I was able to pay a little extra to add insurance to cover 50k per incident of any rescue costs incurred if the SPOT device is used, up to two incidents per year.

I might need to go race some mules to make sure I'm getting my money's worth...

in regards to the Inreach device, I was hoping someone could clarify this for me: when sending a text or email from the trail to my wife it only shows up on Delorme's web portal Mapshare correct? In other words i can't send a txt or email to her cell phone right? And for her to send me a txt or email it needs to initiate through the webportal?

Also anyone have experience with canceling the month to month plan with Delorme? Read a couple negative reviews on amazon and REI regarding bad customer service and hard to cancel subscription (Freedom Plan).

Thanks for any clarity on these questions.

John,

Once again, thank you for the long, thoughtful responses to my questions!




The customer service issues posted on REI is the biggest factor in me looking at other options


So some more pricing info:

SPOT
With the current deals going on right now (Rebate fro SPOT, member refund from REI):

$150 for basic service
+$85 for SPOT (after rebates)
$235 minimum for 1st year (cheapest option)
This includes trackpoints


InReach Explorer

$145 for Safety Plan
+$340 for InReach Explorer (after REI member refund)
$485 minimum for 1st year, + fees for trackpoint and pinging. I would think the trackpoint and pinging fees would be <$25.


Some factors why I'd consider Delorme over Spot:
- reportedly more reliable satellite network (Iridium vs. Globalstar),
- transmits to satellites with stronger radio power (1.6W vs 0.4W)
- 2 way messaging
- mapping/tracking functionality (leave the GPS @ home?)
- confirmation that your messages have been sent

Some factors why I'd consider Spot over Delorme:
- PRICE
- Delorme's poor customer service

Hi Cory,

The Inreach sends text or or e-mail (or both) to whoever you specify. Just like using txt messaging on your iPhone/Android. Uses Satellite for communications instead of cell towers or WiFi. Your wife can also reply, and you will receive her txt message via InReach. Works great! Also shows up on Mapshare, if you specify Mapshare as one of the recipients of the message. Only limitation is 160 (I think) characters/message. Send/Receive is not quite as instantaneous as normal text message or e-mail due to need for Satellite to be overhead, but normally within several minutes.

John

thanks for the info John, your posts have been helpful and let me know the inreach even existed!

FYI there was a good discussion here about this very topic with good user experiences shared.

so i wound up ordering the inreach se and it will be here next week. got it from rei as i had a gift card and they have a $50 mail-in rebate currently in effect 'til 6/30. Here's the reason I chose it:

• 2 way communications
• month to month subscription plan
• better reliability to make connections (from empirical reviews)
• the time seems to be right

I have been toying with the idea of getting a spot over the last several years but every time I looked into it I decided not to get one due to negative reviews, and pricing plans. After reading this thread earlier this week i learned of the Delorme Inreach SE. It seems to have the right combination of features for what I was looking for.

I generally prefer to hike solo and on trails without much people around or utilize popular trails to get to a junction then head off trail. I used to scoff at the idea when family members suggested that i carry a spot or something like that. Maybe its me getting older or I've just read about too many people going missing here in the sierra since living here that I've started changing my way of thinking.

Over the next few weeks I'll figure out how best to utilize this tool, but I'm thinking it's really just an in case emergency tool. Most likely i'll just use it to send a txt message to my wife if my plans change, i.e. took a different route for what ever reason, taking longer to get back, etc. the rule we've been operating under is to give me 24 hrs to get back if i'm late to return. think that will still be the rule with the inreach.

I think these are a cool thing to have for dire emergencies and the tech doesn't have to overwhelm a person or over shadow a wilderness experience. Just depends on how you choose to use this new tool. YMMV

my $.02