I am planning a trip on the JMT in August. I found a fantastic guidebook that is really thorough and I plan to follow the book's itinerary and complete the trail in roughly 20 days. My partner and I tend to be fast hikers but we are going in a group so I guess we have to assume we will be more "average" speed.
The guidebook suggests resupplying only at Vermilion resort. I find this idea attractive because it is cheaper and less of a logistical nightmare (we are Canadian and will be driving down to the trail - so it's harder to ship our food prior to starting). However, if we resupply only at Vermilion that means we will be carrying 10-11 days of food for the second half of the trip. From what I can tell, bear canisters only carry 6-7 days of food for one person. This means even if we EACH carry our own canister we will be 4 days short of food.

I cannot find any information about this inconsistency. Everything I read just says that people carry all of their food for the second half of the leg. But I don't understand how that's physically possible - are they carrying TWO bear canisters per hiker? And, if so, how do they possibly have room for all of their other gear?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

simple: if you do a VVR resupply as your final southbound resupply, you just have to kick up the pace. 20 miles a day should do, and you'll get there just fine with just one full bear can per person, assuming you're not just packing rice cakes and marshmallows, but really dense food.

If you don't exit at Kearsarge to resupply in Independence, or have packers meet you at Charlotte Lake ($$$), for a more leisurely JMT there's really no way around the Muir Trail Ranch. An easy 8 days from there to exit, and it'll fit in any can.

Now there's a small detail that the guidebook you have may not have mentioned and it is what a lot of people plan to do when resupplying at VVR: It is legal to hang food between VVR and Pinchot Pass. So, if you a) can actually carry all that food, and b) know exactly how to safely counter balance hang your food that doesn't fit into the cans, and camp every night you have food that doesn't fit near a tree that actually allows safe hanging (good luck), then you could technically pack 14 days of food at VVR and slowly drag yourself down to Whitney, always looking for a good tree to camp at.

Another option is to mail food to Parcher's Resort and after the VVR resupply exit again from the MTR at the Le Conte Canyon Ranger station and head over Bishop Pass to Parchers shower and resupply there, then and go back in. Much closer to the end of the trail than VVR, even with the detour. If you are somewhat adventurous, you can also shortcut to the MTR at Palisade Lake from Bishop Pass via the Sierra High Route over Knapsack and Potluck Passes.

Building on what Fishmonger wrote, you should be able to get 7 days of food into a canister if you make smart choices. You can also carry your first day's food outside the canister because you will be eating it. That makes for an 8-day "range". From Muir Trail Ranch, it's about 110 miles to Whitney Portal. So that's 14 miles per day, an "average" pace for a JMT hiker. Your pace will be dictated by the high passes, and that's about right.

Not sure what guidebook you're using, but the bible is by
Elizabeth Wenk, New 5th Edition

Coincidently, I just mailed my resupply to MTR today. It's $65 but worth it. Pack some luxury fiesta items and enjoy the hot springs across the river. It's a great midpoint break. The gang from "Mile, Mile and a Half" stayed there. It's on Netflix now. Cool JMT Movie

You can also resupply at Tuolumne Meadows and Red's Meadow to keep your food weight down. These are great stopovers anyway. Same with VVR, but MTR is just a little closer to the finish line.

Remember, the group should be getting stronger and more acclimated over time. But most importantly, PACK WEIGHT will control your pace. If you have heavy packs, then plan on resupplying somehow between MTR or VVR and the finish line, as described by Fishmonger or in a guidebook. That means either a long round trip to town, or paying a packer to deliver along the trail. Best bet is probably a packer drop at Charlotte Lake. Since you have a group, the cost can be shared more economically.

Although canisters are not "required" until your reach Pinchot Pass, there are plenty of bears along the way, especially if you camp at the usual spots. On the other hand, there are bear boxes at strategic locations, but they might be full. Alternatively, consider an Ursack to get some extra food through this area where a canister is not required, but bears are known to be a problem. Ursack 7 ounces

Happy Trails, eh.

I did JMT last August solo south bound from Happy Isles to Whitney Portal with the following food supply plan. Even if you are in Canada I don't see why you cant ship your food parcels ahead of time! I am a slow hiker about 10 to 12 miles per day and this is what I did.

Started with 3 days of food from HI
Picked up 4 days of food at Tuolumne meadows post office (They keep for 2 weeks), Just mail it to yourself care of PO

Picked up 5 days of food at Red's meadow (you can mail them ahead and they charge $1 per day + some transportation fee for picking up from Mammoth PO)

Picked 8 days of food at the MTR (Muir Trail Ranch) - I skipped VVR as it was too expensive and the lake was very dry!

My friends brought food at Kearsarge for 5 days. You can also mail your food to the Berner Packers (Dee Berner, Sequoia Kings Pack Trains, Em: bernerspack@yahoo.com, Tel: 800-962-0775 ). Dee is very responsive and you should get a quote immediately.

Check other trip reports in this discussion group and also in Yahoo groups. Plenty of info there.

Yeah, what Krishna said. Yahoo Groups JMT

You should be able to get 9 person-days of food (c. 35,000 kcals) into a standard bearvault, and with the first night's food separate, that covers 10 days. Make sure you let the air out of all packets and squash hard...

e.g. 40 tortillas (there's a size that perfectly fits the diameter of a bearvault), 27 granola bars, 1lb cheese, 10 snickers, 3lbs spaghetti or instant potato, 1 quart olive oil (=9000 calories!), 9 packet sauces, one squeezy jam, 1 salami, 2 lbs skittles & M&Ms (poured in loose at the end to fill all the gaps).

9 days of food in a bearvault? Is this really doable? It's hard to find concrete info about this. I've also never used a bearvault or seen one in person.

It's also hard to gauge how quickly we will be able to get through the second half of the trip. The guidebook I have averages 11ish miles per day so it's 10 days from MTR (although we could probably cut the last day out). Like I said, the people we are going with are quite a bit slower than us so I am trying to imagine worst case scenario. I guess the tricky thing is you don't want to have to carry more food than necessary, either.

Sounds like most people resupply a couple times through the trip. I was going to try to get away with only one resupply - seems a bit silly to resupply after only a couple of days. The Canadian postal service is a bit of a disaster so I'm guessing it's going to be ridiculously expensive to send a few buckets of food from here. How come MTR is so popular? My guidebook suggests VVR because it is cheapest and nice because of the free accommodation, good food, etc. Is it likely the boat will be not running in August, though?

* The guidebook I'm using is the Cicerone Guide by Alan Castle - found it in the UK because I couldn't find anything decent at home!

9 days is easily doable in my experience. I've just done a test pack for my trip this summer with my son, which requires 5 days, 4 nights, x 2 people, and it fits no problem.

If you're not fussy about food, you can do even better. Instant potato with olive oil added (carry the olive oil in a platypus not a hard bottle!) takes very little space and is very calorie dense. Spaghetti similarly is very space-efficient. Rice and M&Ms can both be poured in at the end (a small sheet of card with rice sized holes can be used to separate them out again).

My record is 10kg of food in a bearvault, and this included stuff like snickers bars, not just dried stuff in bags. Repackaging is an important part of the process - e.g. potato flakes need to be taken out of paper/foil packets and put into ziplocs.

You can go from VVR to Whitney, you just have to hang some food or eat even less than you already do, all while carrying the heaviest load of the hike at the time your body finally realizes it actually needs to get more calories. After the initial week on the trail, your body will seriously crave food, but you'll hit the point in your resupply schedule where you can't take extra calories, because your can is too small.

I have a Bearikade Expedition and do 18-25 mile days, so VVR to Portal actually is doable quite easily for me, but it is vacation, and if I can carry less, or have more to eat at the end of the hike, I am going to choose that option. The cost to have food waiting at MTR versus the overall cost of my trip is rather unimportant.

One thing you may want to consider if you just use VVR is to stop at MTR and add a few things to your can from the hiker barrels, buy some fuel there, or whatever else you know you don't have to carry from VVR to MTR. Unless you show up very early in the season, those hiker barrels (plastic buckets, sorted and labeled by categories) are rather full with food and other goodies.

If you want more advice than you can handle, join the John Muir Trail Yahoo group. They have many resources you may find useful prior to a first trip on the JMT

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/info

Hike out of kearsarge pass and there is a pack station there in onion valley. They will hold your package but it's pricey, that is what I did last year on the jmt. also heard the food mart in independence will hold your package for cheap, you will have to hitch hike down there. There is not much to buy there at the food mart, the guy I was with that resupplied there did not have that great of food.

$125 to hold a package (because they want to encourage that you hire them to pack it all the way up to Charlotte Lake). Makes the Muir Ranch rates suddenly not look so bad.

I have no experience with this, but I recently had lunch conversation at the top of local So Cal peak with a couple of people that completed the JMT last year. They mentioned using the resupply services of the Mt Williamson Motel in Independence. They highly recommended the place. I have no first hand experience with the place, but the two people I met thought it was a better experience than Muir Trail Ranch.

Here's a link to their web site. They offer a basic resupply service and something with more "bells & whistles". Might be a little high cost, but sounds like you get a lot.

From the we site:
We also offer our Complete Resupply Package ($150 for one person, $175 double occupancy) that includes:

Receiving and holding one resupply in our secure, air-conditioned facility
One night’s lodging
One breakfast per person
One load of laundry per person
Complimentary ride from Onion Valley Trail Head to motel
Complimentary ride from motel to Onion Valley Trail Head

Don't know what book you are referring to, but I applaud both the advice and your interest in it. I did JMT SoBo last year and and had no problem carrying 12 days food from my last resup. If your food pack is reasonably nutrient dense, there is no reason why you can't get 12 days food (16 lbs) into a bearcan, plus what you can carry for a day out of resup: easily 13 days food for 11-12 days south of VVR. To paraphrase Cap't Quint: I'll never resup at MTR again.

I am usually packing my food to MTR myself - $25 fee, instead of the $65 they charge to pack up and hold it. Obviously not an option for everyone but if you do have the time and enjoy a little acclimation hike, it's one of the cheapest resupply locations.

At 1.25-1.5 lbs per day, 9 days is 12-14 lbs of food. Doable, with careful food selection and lots of compression force. 10 lbs = 7 days is more realistic. The claim of 10 kg (22 lbs) of food in a bear vault must be a world record. A BV500 full of water is about 23.5 lbs. Or are we talking about different models and sizes? Get that straight. If you're renting a Garcia bear canister, than it's even smaller than a bear vault.
So why add anything beyond the 110 miles from MTR after your last resupply? The $65 fee can be split by 2 people, so it's really $32.50 per person, with no boat ride fee. If you really want to resupply at VVR, then get bigger canisters for 2 more days food, resupply again along the way, or hike faster.

I think you need to do more homework. You should click on those links I posted above (and links by others too), order the best guide book on Amazon. Combine that knowledge together with a better assessment of the your group's capabilities to make the best plan you can - with options. Rank your priorities - what's most important, is it saving money, finishing as fast as possible, getting everyone across the finish line, etc. What if some people can't make it? What will define a successful trip of a lifetime, because that's what it should be, a trip of a lifetime, especially if you're travel so far to do this. You should be able to send your resupply food as soon as you get here rather than from the UK. Planning is everything at this point, and information comes from homework. You'll probably need to adapt your plan along the way, which also requires knowledge, which comes from homework.

I think he's coming from Canada which should be a lot easier than the UK from a customs perspective.

10kg is definitely doable but you're right, requires a lot of squashing. We got 10kg each into 2 bearvaults for 180 miles of PCT through the Sierra from Kennedy Meadows to VVR. Despite this our daily calorie deficit was greater than a normal calorie intake. Pretty much everything in the can would sink in water (e.g. spaghetti, instant mash, couscous), and it was squashed very hard. I think the following year, for Mammoth to WP we got about 8-9kg in each can.

At the end of all the packing, if you can't get another kg of rice, M&Ms and skittles (poured loose) into all the gaps I'd be amazed, but very few people seem to do this.

My test pack of a can last weekend got 6kg/13.2lb in without any aggressive squashing (just careful tessellation), nor letting the air out of the packets, nor pouring in loose granular items.

Packing a bear canister was my intro to packing a bear can and worked for me.

Of all the places to resupply, Edison Lake (VVR aka Vermillion Valley Resort) makes the least sense. It's a long 5-6 mile hike off the JMT, or a $20 ferry ride (in August the lake/reservoir will be quite low, so longer hike to the ferry, too.) Lots of people like the camaraderie and atmosphere at VVR, but you will be in a group, so you won't really be lonesome. I think I've heard many hikers will spend $100 there with the great meals and good beer -- just depends if that is what you want.

It makes better sense to resupply at Reds Meadow. There is even a shuttle bus right from RM out to Mammoth (30-40 min. ride?) so you could go out and buy supplies there. (Incidentally, it's a good place to park your car, too, since YARTS shuttles Mammoth to Yosemite, and ESTA shuttles from Lone Pine to Mammoth.) I'm not sure what the store at RM has, but you might just buy supplies there.

Tuolumne Meadows: there is a store there as well. Not sure what hikers have to say about selection and variety, but buying supplies there is an option, too.

So you see, Krishna's resupply spots make sense. It would be up to you to decide whether to run out over Kearsarge Pass to try to pick up more supplies in Independence -- that would burn a full day, maybe even an overnight. You might consider that as an option, and decide once you get there, based on the progress and speed of everyone in your group.

As for mailing yourself supplies, the U.S. Postal Service has flat rate boxes you can mail from anywhere in the U.S. to anywhere in the U.S. 12x12x6 (Large Box) is $16.

The places you can resupply:

Tuolumne Meadows Post Office
Reds Meadow Resort
Mammoth Lakes Post office (detour, hassle unless you need to buy gear at a store or other reason to go to town)
VVR (detour)
Mono Hot Springs Post Office (big detour, best done hitch-hiking)
MTR
Parcher's Resort (detour)
Kearsarge Pass (detour)

If you skip all those past VVR, you will pay the price on Bear Ridge

I've done Whitney Portal to VVR on a single Bearikade Expedition, 10 days, no problem other than killer weight on the way up to Trail Crest. Taught me the lesson to resupply as often as possible. And if I don't mail anything to MTR for example, I will still stop there and grab some food from the hiker barrels. Calories for the taking, at least go there and eat what you can. It's a tiny detour. Charge your camera, email family, hit the trail again.

Just to confirm, you are talking about a BV500 bear vault, about 650 cubic inches (although it claims to be 700 cubic inches).

I've read Tom's article on this before - a must read and some very useful tips, but leaning into each layer with a glass roller tends to make mush out of everything. The most he claims to get is 18 lbs, so your 22 lbs must be a world record if you're talking about a BV500. That's truly amazing.

ok, let's take it to the nth degree of loading and minimalism.

I wonder what a Bear Vault full of Tang would weigh?

those approx 2000 Cal/lb and its Vitamin C would take you a long way, that and a few mineral and other vitamin supplements, and burning your own fat & protein.

I could do the math, but.. a default breakfast for me on the trail is a liter of water + 3 Fig Newtons while packing up, then a liter of strong Tang to sip on the trail.

I have a rare but strong disagreement with Steve on this one. While the distances and costs would seem to dictate against the sense of VVR, actual experience says otherwise. First, Red's is not a substitute for VVR, whereas a stop at VVR can supplant both Red's and MTR. Red's is 2 or three days farther from the half way point, and not an alternative to MTR, which VVR is. Second, the 20 bucks ferry fee is less than the extra cost (65 vs 35) of sending a resup to MTR alone. Third, I wasted more time at MTR than I might have spent at VVR if I hadn't decided to take a zero day at VVR. I got to the Mono Creek bridge late in the day, and could have walked in to VVR by 8 or so and been back at the trailhead, having taken care of business, including laundry and shower, which you cant get at MTR, to the Bear Creek cutoff by 730 the next morning, with no down time. At MTR I got in about 430, so not time to resup then, since you have to be off the property by 5 and cant get back in till 8 the next morning. So at MTR, I directly lost a late afternoon and early morning, about half a day hiking time, and indirectly another half a day due to not being able to get far enough up Evo to cross Muir in good weather the next day.

My plan next time would be skip TM, a pit stop at Red's, but no overnight, in-n-out overnight and major resup at VVR, skip MTR unless timing is good for a mid-day in-n-out to top up on delectables from the hiker boxes. People seem to leave the tastiest stuff at MTR: jerky, summer sausage, nuts etc.

I once did the math to see how many calories I could fit into my Bearikade Expedition, and filling it with olive oil to the top seemed to be the highest I could do - 96,000 calories. That'll get you down the trail a few miles, although your body really isn't a diesel engine...

I've seen a PCT hiker one year who had a bear can almost completely full of couscous, just a small bottle of oil and some seasoning, rest he said would be supplemented by begging other hikers for some treats or hiker barrels.

Our plan this summer (28 or 29 days on trail), not as fast moving as usual with more time for side trips and slower cross country routes:

• First stop Tuolumne Meadows (in bear locker at ranger station in parking lot where our car will be left for the month)
• Second package at Reds Meadows (hand deliver before hike with an overnight acclimation stay at Reds Campground)
• Third resupply at VVR (no ferry, we hike in over Goodale, out over Bear Crossing or Ridge)
• Fourth stop - MTR, no package mailed, just hiker barrel, recharge batteries, move on quickly. Was planning to hike food in, but don't really need it
• Fifth resupply - Parcher's Resort (because we are on the High Route through Dusy Basin anyway, it won't be so far off the trail)
• Sixth resupply - Mt. Williamson Motel deal at Kearsarge, pickup, overnight, return next morning.

We should never have more than 7 days of food on us, with VVR to Parchers and Parchers to Kearsarge being the longest legs. we have one Expedition and one regular Bearikade, so plenty of room for even less than ideal food (e.g. Mountain House Chili Mac, which is more air than chili until you add water)

I am also using one of the later resupplies to add camera gear to my pack late in the hike. That avoids the common first day weight shock, that inevitably leads to leaving most of the lenses and./or tripod I planned on bringing in the car before walking out. When we get to the resupply with the extra camera gear, I will have lost the equivalent weight off my body anyway.

I'm thinking about getting into backpacking, and was talking with someone at work who has experience. She recommended couscous as well for energy, taste, and low fuel cost to cook compared with other starches. She also likes dehydrating pasta sauce, says it rehydrates real well from a fruit leather condition.

I'm not going to claim scientific precision on my weights, it was me on scales without bear vault and me on scales with bear vault, but it tallied with my estimate of the amount of stuff I'd put into it. It was the original smooth sided 2005 model bear vault (which was very slightly easier to pack than the modern ones with bumps and lips) but I think the same size. If the food is much already (powdered stuff or trail mix) then mushing doesn't do a lot of damage. The tortillas tended to fall apart at the edges a bit and the snickers needed eaten from the wrapper, but that was about all that I can remember being an issue.

For my current planned trip I'm weighing much more accurately since I'm preparing everything at home, rather than at a trail angel's house on the PCT, and the ability to get 7+kg into the bear vault gives me no reason to doubt my previous measurements. Last time I followed most of tom's instructions to the letter - repackaging, mushing etc. Once I get to the 'mushing' stage I'll happily post a picture of the packed bear vault and a list of the contents - my latest expectation is I'll get about 8kg in, hampered by the fact that my son doesn't like instant mash or any other powdered food.

Edited to add - couscous is great, but instant mash I think is still the best because you can add a lot of olive oil before it gets too gunky. Pasta and couscous get oily and unpleasant for me.

It depends if we have the time to mail it to ourselves after we cross the border or if we have to do it while still in Canada - one of those buckets would cost, I'm guessing, $100 from here. So that would be $200 for the buckets. This is why we want to just resupply once - it will cost like $400 just for the buckets let alone the charge to hold them.

This is exactly our thinking: we will do a quick stop at Red's and MTR to stock up a bit but not mail boxes there.

Is it pretty safe to assume that there will be lots of extra hiker barrels at each of the stops? Do most of you plan to resupply from these barrels and thus pack less with this in mind?

Thanks for all the ideas about food: please keep them coming! I have done 7-day backpack trips but never this long - so haven't had to worry too much about weight/space before. We usually eat like royalty because I prepare all my own food but I guess this time we will have to change our style!

Dude! You can stop in at any USPS Post Office and mail it. It would take just a few minutes! There is one in every town, so you will pass by dozens on your way south.

you said August? They will have more food in the hiker barrels than they will know what to do with. And anything they don't have to transport out for disposal is less work for them.

In early season, when the hungry PCT crowd comes through, they limit the amount you can grab, but in July and later, we pretty much were looking at entire resupplies in 5 to 6 barrels full of things people didn't want. They even sort it for you, from non-food (nice batteries, etc) to factory packed to repackaged food. If you're not afraid to eat somebody's home brew granola mix, you can fill up several bear cans. The factory wrapped stuff moves pretty quickly, but every time we were there in recent years, there was way more than we would have wanted to add to our packs.

Reds and VVR have much smaller hiker barrels, because, well, they have a store to sell you the same or similar stuff.

The more food you carry, the slower you go, the longer it takes to resupply, the more food you need to carry, the slower you go, the longer it takes, the more food you need to carry...

Vacation time $Priceless
Gear $1,500
Travel from Canada $500
Resupply savings $100?

Whatever you decide, consider the physics and accounting. Do your homework and make good choices. It will work out pretty much any way you do it, but some ways are easier than others.

Have a great trip! Post TR and let us know how it went.

I meant if there would be enough time between mailing it and when we need to pick it up at the supply post. Sounds like they suggest mailing it 2 weeks before you intend to pick it up. If we resupplied early on in the trip we wouldn't have a chance to mail it out 2 weeks ahead of time.

Ok, now I understand.

I've shipped in those flat-rate "priority mail" boxes, and they make it across the country in just a few days. The odd-size paid-by-the-pound boxes probably get shipped more slowly.

It is worth WHATEVER it costs to mail it and arrive on time so as not carry it.

It will help to imagine what it is like to climb steep sandhills while encumbered by a sack of potatoes on your back and a brick strapped to each ankle.
Norman Croucher, Legless But Smiling, page 468


(edited to add quote. This double amputee walked from John O'Groats to Lands End, as well as Himalayan climbs.

MTR has so much stuff they set up about 8 different barrels with different categories, but Red's and VVR, not so much. In August you could show up at MTR empty and fill your pack, it would not be noticed. I was offered so much choice stuff just sitting at the table that I only had to rummage for some really obscure stuff, like powdered whole milk and electrolyte, and I left a bunch of what I had shipped there. Red's and VVR have only one skimpy barrel each, but they both have pretty good stores and great restos.