Lots of focus on the recent death on Whitney. There were two other serious events. These two had neurological problems; one had seizures (likely a pre-existing condition), the other had AMS with disorientation (qualifies as HACE),

SARs on Whitney

Maybe I can be of assistance on this. After getting $30,000 of medical bills as a result (insurance covered 26,000)

I climbed Mt. Dana about 4 years ago. At the 12,000' level I became somewhat dizzy and more important was right on the edge of passing out. My vision darkened on outside. There was no good place to lie down, but I wanted to try that. As soon started lowering down knew for sure would pass out, so stopped.

Tried like 4 times. What worked best was, to keep going head down and forward. This lasted maybe 30-40 minutes. I did summit and felt better up there and made it down no problem. Another symptom was my right arm was not getting enough blood, it was half asleep.

Year later climbed Ruby mountains at 10,000' and same thing with arm, but the passing out part, was not as bad.

Then 6 months later was skiing at 8,000 and was afraid was going to pass out and fall off chair. Told ski buddies that and lowered the bar. After at top and resting a while was talking to one of them at peak and "whited out" Everything turned white, trees everything except dark jacket on who was talking with. Figured it out, my eyes were dilating against my will and was on edge of passing out.

Went to a doctor and he sent me to ER, they thought it was stroke or heart attack, 3 days later had $30k bill and they could find nothing wrong with me after zillion tests. BTW if you every watch your heart beat on sonar thing for 30 minutes it is so darn complicated its a wonder hearts last a week.

I told them it was not a stroke it was lack of blood getting to arm. Figured that out 2 hours after got out, had ski shoulder injury that crushed my rotator cuff tendon, artery runs same place. So at high altitude at extreme exertion the artery gets bigger and pinched by collar bone, which was moved by injury, one issue down.

The near passing out? Figured it out, common denominator is Aspartame. I avoid it but use cough drops at high alt for wet throat. Airline pilots are not allowed to drink aspartame sweetened drinks, their have been seizures at altitude. Aspartame passes the blood brain barrier.

I stopped all Aspartame and this problem has never happened again. After reading your post, thought this could be of value to you and others. Will post it separately with Aspartame in title.

Regards, Darp

Wow!

> Will post it separately with Aspartame in title.

Please do. And...

Stevia...natural...better for you.

Do you have a source for this? I was a corporate pilot for years, and have a father and plenty of friends that currently fly for airlines, both majors and regionals, and plenty of them drink Diet Coke and other aspartame laced beverages.

Last I had heard, the FAA had no official stance on aspartame other than "it's probably not good for you."

> Do you have a source for this?

Very interesting. Just for kicks, I Googled "pilots are not allowed to drink aspartame", and it came back with "About 307,000 results"

But that doesn't make it true... Years ago, I was interested in microwave use to heat milk for a baby. Google came back with similar numbers where websites claimed it would harm the milk. But the baby doctor said it was ok, so I did, and baby grew up.

If you Wiki "aspartame controversy", you'll get a good general overview without the sensationalism. Apparently there have been a few intentionally malicious and fraudulent "clinical test reports" on aspartame in the past that seem to have muddied the internet waters. What a surprise.

Maybe Ken and Harvey can weigh in.

This thread started with a legitimate medical report and has now deteriorated into unrelated anecdotes and hearsay. As Bulldog quips, "what a surprise." I have nothing else to say.
Should be locked.

I'm with Harvey. Move it to Twilightzone.com.

Actually, people, it isn't that unusual for a single person to be sensitive to some particular chemical. Darp may be, and 999 others aren't.

I my case, I experienced some really unpleasant symptoms after hiking or skiing (at altitude of course), and finally related it to taking Excedrin. I had the problem three times: Hiking or skiing, near the end of the day, took the Excedrin (it has aspirin, caffeine and tylenol). Soon after, I was nauseated, and spent hours feeling awful. I never barfed, but was on the verge for much of the time. After I figured out the relationship, I've stopped taking it, and have never had the experience again.

I know a kid who becomes violently ill if he comes into contact with any milk products. So bad his mom packs an Epi-Pen.


Getting back to Harvey's original post, and from the SAR report:
"the subject's history of exercise-induced seizures."
Sheesh, I've never heard of such occurrences! But few things amaze me anymore. I'll bet that guy doesn't do any epic hikes again.

sounds like atypical migraine (hemiplegic type) to me.
There does not need to be a headache.
Barometric changes, such as climbing, are a well-known trigger.


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/migraine-headache/basics/symptoms/con-20026358

does not sound like AMS, as the arm symptom is not typical, and you got better when you got to the top. With AMS, would have expected you to get progressively worse. For you to have frank neurologic symptoms, with AMS it would be Cerebral Edema, which should have had a very different course.

However, going up with the onset of this is insanity.

Yeah -- so do I (really) and my sister is allergic to bee stings...etc. Coming from a science background, I get uncomfortable when anecdotes are used as "answers" to likely unrelated medical cases.

Just the facts, ma'am.

So Bee, have you ever stung your sister?

I occasionally get a "silent" migraine, with amazing auras and tunnel vision - my doctor gave me the term for that which I have since forgotten. There is no pain.

It's associated (for me, anyway) with stress plus caffeine.

"Optical Aura" I get them too. They are weird and unnerving and I always expect any second for some piercing migraine to start. It never has, but my body seems to know that they usually go together and triggers gut clenching Pavlovian anticipation which leaves a lingering adrenaline overload long after the sparkling colors are gone.

I only get them a couple of times a year, so it's hard to tie them to any trigger, but I had always thought they seemed to accompany major blood loss (I donate blood regularly) when coupled with some other ingredient like stress or virus.

Oddly enough, I used excedrin and diamox on my last Whitney hike and had no AMS symptoms for the first time ever.

Airline pilots are not allowed to drink aspartame sweetened drinks...


Do you have a source for this? I was a corporate pilot for years, and have a father and plenty of friends that currently fly for airlines, both majors and regionals, and plenty of them drink Diet Coke and other aspartame laced beverages.

Last I had heard, the FAA had no official stance on aspartame other than "it's probably not good for you."



G&C, Found two, the 2nd is on FDA site:

I found the below at: http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/fraud.htm

Aspartame Affecting Airline Pilots

Some of the more interesting developments in 1989 surfaced in the Palm Beach Post on October 14th, where an article by Dr. H.J. Robert described several recent aircraft accidents involving confusion and aberrant pilot behavior caused by ingestion of products containing aspartame.[13] Soft drink makers were notified of this problem in 1991.


Now for the FDA one: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt

There are other clinical reports in the scientific literature of
aspartame-caused toxicity reactions including Blumenthal (1997),
Drake (1986), Johns (1986), Lipton (1989), McCauliffe (1991),
Novick (1985), Watts (1991), Walton (1986, 1988), and Wurtman
(1985).

Many pilots appear to be particularly susceptible to the effects of
aspartame ingestion. They have reported numerous serious toxicity
effects including grand mal seizures in the cockpit (Stoddard 1995).

I do use Stevia, great stuff. No one makes a Stevia cough drop am aware of. I use CVS sugarfree, they use isomalt not aspartame. isomalt is a sugar alcohol, mildly laxative, much safer.

Hi Harvey,

I was able to find two reports easily about it, one on FDA site.

There are other clinical reports in the scientific literature of
aspartame-caused toxicity reactions including Blumenthal (1997),
Drake (1986), Johns (1986), Lipton (1989), McCauliffe (1991),
Novick (1985), Watts (1991), Walton (1986, 1988), and Wurtman
(1985).

Many pilots appear to be particularly susceptible to the effects of
aspartame ingestion. They have reported numerous serious toxicity
effects including grand mal seizures in the cockpit (Stoddard 1995).

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt


"Grand mal seizures" It would be interesting and maybe valuable to check in with those rescued for seizures on Whitney to see if they had taken Aspartame.

Hi Steve, After I found out about Tylenol ( acetaminophen) I have never taken it again. I use ibuprofen, much safer, but should be taken with food to prevent intestinal bleeding and all NASIDs are hard on liver.

Tylenol/acetaminophen is the #1 cause for ER admissions. It is so dangerous in combination with alcohol that over 400 people die each year from it, that we know of. And recently some members of FDA panel voted to totally ban acetaminophen, yet keep using things like Morphine, because Morphine is safer. The problem is the minimal dose for effectiveness is very near the fatal dose, much more so than things like Morphine and ibuprofen. Accidental double dose and have two glasses of wine and you can die.

In this NYT article, the majority voted to ban combining acetaminophen with some other drugs http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/health/01fda.html?_r=0

The two drugs combine a narcotic with acetaminophen, the ingredient found in popular over-the-counter products like Tylenol and Excedrin. High doses of acetaminophen are a leading cause of liver damage,

Here is another report on USA Today: A Food and Drug Administration panel on Tuesday voted 20-17 that prescription drugs that combine acetaminophen with other painkilling ingredients should be pulled off the market.

The FDA has assembled a group of experts to vote on ways to reduce liver damage associated with acetaminophen, one of the most widely used drugs in the U.S.

And here is NIH report that it kills 458 people a year, that does not count liver failures that transplants save the person.

Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause for calls to Poison Control Centers ... and an estimated 458 deaths due to acute liver failure each year.

Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause for calls to Poison Control Centers (>100,000/year) and accounts for more than 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and an estimated 458 deaths due to acute liver failure each year. Data from the U.S. Acute Liver Failure Study Group registry of more than 700 patients with acute liver failure across the United States implicates acetaminophen poisoning in nearly 50% of all acute liver failure in this country

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15239078



And in regard to: "I'll bet that guy doesn't do any epic hikes again." Am planing on Mount Langley in July.

Two years ago did Whitney, as one dayer, but got a bad heel blister at about 12,500 and turned around, which worked, got out without much pain. Cheers

Hi Ken,

There was a college student on Mt. Dana on way down who had AMS. He did not even know what it is. Classic symptoms, and he knew something was very wrong. Told him to get down ASAP, which he did, faster than me.

Yeah I know on insanity part. My doctor said so you went down right after symtoms? I said no, he said what did you do? I said went to top. He asked why? Said well had gone to so much trouble to get to 12,000 figured might as well go to top. He laughed big time, had a sense of humor. Yes you are right.

Cheers

2nd note, I have never had a migraine. Have had two en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillating_scotoma a precursor. They are different.

I was barely, just barely conscious on Mt. Dana for a while.

Once hit a huge updraft in small plane over Canadian Rockies, the Gs almost blacked me out as was at 11,000 anyway, that is the closest to what experienced on Dana. What helped more than anything was staying upright and hiking, when I stopped it got worse. Maybe constricting muscles helping get more blood to head.

Sounds like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillating_scotoma I have had two. First one only had prefiral vision, very weird, was temporarily mostly blind . Called eye doctor and he immediately knew what is was.

You seem to be mistaking the issue of "associate with" and "caused by".

They are very different things, and often it requires a considerable amount of time and research to illuminate the difference.

Sounds like migraine to me. Notice I said nothing about "headache".

Now for the FDA one: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
==================================

Your link is NOT to an FDA recommendation or decision, it is a link to a letter that was submitted by an independent citizen from the Aspartame Toxicity Information Center (sure sounds objective to me). All the statistics that you quoted were his, NOT the FDAs.

You should be very careful about accepting the statements of "independent" posters on the internet, whose motives none of us have any way of knowing.

https://whatdoesthesciencesay.wordpress.com/category/email-hoaxes/

As far as I can tell, Mark D. Gold does not have any sort of professional degree, and has never published any scientific paper in the literature ever, anywhere.

Bottom's up!

Yea, I wasn't really disputing that aspartame might be part of the problem, I was more curious about your statement that airline pilots were not allowed to consume aspartame. There may be some airlines that have their own SOPs or mandates restricting it, but there's nothing from the FAA that I've been able to find. The FDA can not tell pilots what they may or may not do. The FAA can, and they do not have an official stance on the consumption of aspartame.

That's not to say that they shouldn't, just that they don't.

And while I also recognize that my question may have been slightly off topic, at the same time, if the FAA had taken a stance on the consumption of aspartame by pilots, it would have made the story much more powerful to me, seeing as how pilots spend a good portion of their time at cabin pressures of 7-8,000 ft.

Hi G&C, The FAA may not have put a ban on it. But indeed on cabin pressure. I wrote this initially 100% from my 4 year old memory if research on it. It ends up being very close to what I was able to find easily on this subject today. There is a new study in 2014 of 60,000 women that says it increases heart attack deaths 50% in women. This is a separate risk on top of the brain risk.

From the American College of Cardiology website March 29, 2014:

[A] study led by Ankur Vyas, MD, of the University of Iowa found that postmenopausal women who consumed two or more diet drinks a day were 30 percent more likely to experience a cardiovascular event and 50 percent more likely to die from related cardiovascular disease than women who never, or only rarely, consumed diet drinks. The analysis of 59,614 participants in the Women's Health Initiative Observational Study, who had an average age of 62.8 and no history of cardiovascular disease, saw that after an average follow-up of 8.7 years, the primary cardiovascular outcome occurred in 8.5 percent of the women consuming two or more diet drinks per day compared to 6.9 percent in the five-to-seven drinks per week group; 6.8 percent in the one-to-four drinks per week group; and 7.2 percent in the zero-to-three per month group. The difference persisted when researchers adjusted for other cardiovascular risk factors and co-morbidities. The association between diet drinks and cardiovascular disease warrants further study to define the relationship, Vyas said.

http://www.cardiosource.org/en/News-Medi...CV-Disease.aspx

Note the big jump in heart attack deaths is having more than one a day. It seems the heart can handle 1 a day. This is on top of the brain risk.

Ken in my case I can not prove it. That I have had three "brain" events and each was associated with Aspartame,which I practically never used, and it stopped 100% when I stopped Aspartame 100%, even though I do the same high altitude things, is not proof.

But being it matches the airline pilots events I would be crazy to ever use it again.

Just providing information and personal experience. BTW a 2014 study of 60,000 women says in increases heart attack deaths 50%, see the info on my reply to G&C.

Cheers

Thank you, Ken.

Repeating myself here...

Darp, I can believe you personally need to stay clear of anything with Aspartame in it, because it seems to bring on some strange symptoms. However, most of the other 999 out of a thousand people can hike and never worry about sensitivity to a sugar substitute. Even though it affects you adversely, I don't see the point of trying to convince everyone else to avoid it.

..And keeping with my more blunt approach: This is not a consumer advocacy soapbox, so take the anti-Aspartame crusade somewhere else.

I am with Steve on this. I think that it is true that people can have unique or idiosyncratic side effects from all sorts of things, both natural and man-made. However, that does not necessarily translate into widespread effects in other people.

Once again, I caution as to source. You linked NOT to the article, but to a REPORT ON the article. Thus, you are reading someone's (and who might that be?)interpretation of the article.

That is a red light for me.

Also, you quote:

"the primary cardiovascular outcome occurred in 8.5 percent of the women consuming two or more diet drinks per day compared to 6.9 percent in the five-to-seven drinks per week group; 6.8 percent in the one-to-four drinks per week group; and 7.2 percent in the zero-to-three per month group."

In the 4 groups looked at, the lowest use group has the second highest rate of events. The two middle groups have no difference. That says to me that there is no clear relationship.

Also, this study only talks about "diet drinks". It does not define IN THE REPORT, what a diet drink consists of....and there are multiple diet drinks over a period of time that have been sweetened with different things.

Hi Ken.

I certainly want to keep this friendly. There would be no reason for anyone on this board to have bad motives. It's a hikers board. So I believe everyone here is sincere.

The rates for all EXCEPT those drinking over two a day are statistically the same in that study. That is interesting. One a day or less is the same statistically, and variance of 6.8 to 6.9 is nothing. And Deaths are 60% more, 50% not 30% for just heart attacks. So add 60% more to those ratios for deaths.

So it indicates the body can handle 1 a day or less (heart only).

Everyone has to make up their own mind. All am saying is if I read this thread 5 years ago, would have never taken Aspartame again at altitude, and believe would have never ended up in hospital. Will leave it with just two sentences bolded below in the History of Aspartame by Yahoo Health:

Aspartame's Controversial History

Aspartame, best known as NutraSweet and Equal commonly used to sweeten everything from diet sodas to yogurt, is no stranger to controversy.

The FDA approved this sugar substitute for limited food uses in 1981. By 1995 the FDA's Epidemiology Branch chief reported aspartame complaints constituted 75 percent of all FDA reports concerning adverse reactions to food, according to Ann Louise Gittleman, Ph.D. in Get the Sugar Out.

In 1996 it gained approval as a general sweetener, but that same year 60 Minutes reported criticisms of the approval process stating, "aspartame's approval was one of the most contested in FDA history."

That report used research published in the Journal of Neuropathology and Experimental Neurology showing possible links between drinking diet soda and developing brain tumors.

In an analysis of peer-reviewed medical literature Dr. Ralph G. Walton, a professor at Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine, found that all industry-funded studies said aspartame was safe, according to a 2006 New York Times article. In independent studies, 92 percent identified one or more problems with aspartame, Walton reported.

"Here in the US, we allow these ingredients into our food supply until they are proven dangerous," said Robyn O'Brien, a former food industry analyst and author of The Unhealthy Truth. "In light of the fact that the President's Cancer Panel reports that 41 percent of us are expected to get cancer in our lifetimes and the burden that disease in placing on our economy, perhaps it is time to exercise precaution."
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/aspartame-study-fuels-continued-debate


So the bottom line is out of the thousands of ingredients in food, the FDA admits just one (Aspartame) causes 75% of all FDA complaints and 100% of health studies with a conflict on interest on Aspartame say its safe and 92% of studies without a conflict of interest say it causes health problems. Until this thread started I did not know either of those two facts, so this has been very educational for me, and I hope others.

Cheers

Why do you want to put any artificial sweetener in your drink when hiking uphill at all?
You are burning calories at full speed and need real sugar.
Is it possible that these problems were caused by sugar deficiency rather than by Aspartam?

It might also be caused by aspartame consumption prior to the beginning of the hike. I know I'm guilty of charging myself up in the morning with a Diet Coke because I can't stand coffee. Which is why the whole story interested me in the first place.

That is not unreasonable.

Yeah, it is more than reasonable it is not the aspartame.

I eat complex carbs at breakfast...zero sugar, and it is not unusual for me to have a dip at approximately one mile into a hike. I pop some hard candy in my mouth and about 15 minutes later I'm ok.

Hi Yury,

I do not drink soda pop, but your point is very valid. You need calories when doing a big hike. I was using cough drops to wet my mouth at high altitude/exertion. Started getting cavities from sugar ones, switched to sugarless ones (which ended up being Aspartame) that is when problem started. BTW CVS sugar-free do not use Aspartame and I do use them for same reason now.

I tend to eat nuts and dried fruit when hiking and filter water.

As mentioned in prior post the bottom line for me is this:

Out of the thousands of ingredients in food, the FDA admits just one (Aspartame) causes 75% of all FDA complaints and 100% of health studies with a conflict on interest on Aspartame say its safe and 92% of studies without a conflict of interest say it causes health problems. Until this thread started I did not know either of those two facts, so this has been very educational for me, and I hope others.


Cheers

Actually, what you posted is simply not true. What you'd previously posted upthread was:

By 1995 the FDA's Epidemiology Branch chief reported aspartame complaints constituted 75 percent of all FDA reports concerning adverse reactions to food, according to Ann Louise Gittleman, Ph.D. in Get the Sugar Out.

That is NOT the FDA saying that, that is Gittleman saying that.

If you have a link to the actual FDA that says that, then lets see it. Remember that you are talking, though, about TWENTY YEARS AGO. There has been a lot of study since then.

But now you are caught in a dilemma: You are citing the FDA as an authoritative source. Ok. But if you live by the sword, you also die by it, because they DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU.

Here is what they currently say, today, 2014:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPacka...tm#SummaryTable

===========

Aspartame is one of the most exhaustively studied substances in the human food supply, with more than 100 studies supporting its safety.

FDA scientists have reviewed scientific data regarding the safety of aspartame in food and concluded that it is safe for the general population under certain conditions. However, people with a rare hereditary disease known as phenylketonuria (PKU) have a difficult time metabolizing phenylalanine, a component of aspartame, and should control their intake of phenylalanine from all sources, including aspartame. Labels of aspartame-containing foods and beverages must include a statement that informs individuals with PKU that the product contains phenylalanine.

Every drug or other chemical has side effects. For that matter, so does life. So...get over it and press on.