Mt Whitney Zone
Posted By: 63ChevyII.com Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/12/14 09:08 PM
My father-in-law will be visiting in a few weeks. The last time he was here we hiked Whitney. I would like to plan a quick overnighter while he's here.

I am thinking about taking a shot at Langley (overnight at CWL #3, up NAP and down OAP). If the weather doesn't cooperate (rain/snow) we may try White Mtn Peak instead.

Looking at the weather data for Oct '13, it's a bit milder than what I was expecting. Is this 'normal?'

It seems that if we carried the same gear we used in early June for our Whitney hike, it should be sufficient.

Thoughts?
just an option:

Dan and I just did Langley last month. We got to Long Lake so early in the day, we just guzzled water there, filled up 3 quarts ( 1 for dinner, 2 breakfast/lunch next day) and spent the night at top of NAP. (We had spent 3 nights at Mammoth before, so had a little acclimatization). There are semi-sheltered camp areas at NAP. This gave us a tremendous headstart for Langley summit day. We kept going north after that into Miter Basin, but you would be returning south. A few pictures on my TR:

Miter Basin TR
Posted By: Steve C Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/12/14 11:14 PM
Last year was a bad drought year. We are hoping like everything that this year doesn't repeat. If no storms come, then you could go anytime in October. But I am hoping for storms.

The White Mountain road gate (near Schulman Grove) is closed sometime in the fall, so you should call the ranger station in Bishop to find out for sure.

Also remember, you have a lot (~3 hours) less daylight. Here's an extract from this post:

MT WHITNEY

Rise and Set for the Sun for 2014

Location: W118 18, N36 35
Zone: 7h West of Greenwich
(Pacific Daylight Savings Time)

June Sept. Oct.
Day Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set
h m h m h m h m h m h m
01 0536 2006 0625 1921 0649 1837
02 0536 2007 0625 1920 0649 1835
03 0536 2007 0626 1918 0650 1834
04 0535 2008 0627 1917 0651 1832
05 0535 2009 0628 1915 0652 1831
06 0535 2009 0628 1914 0653 1829
07 0535 2010 0629 1912 0654 1828
08 0535 2010 0630 1911 0654 1826
09 0534 2011 0631 1909 0655 1825
10 0534 2011 0632 1908 0656 1824
11 0534 2012 0632 1906 0657 1822
12 0534 2012 0633 1905 0658 1821
13 0534 2012 0634 1903 0659 1819
14 0534 2013 0635 1902 0700 1818
15 0534 2013 0636 1900 0701 1817
16 0534 2014 0636 1859 0702 1815
17 0534 2014 0637 1857 0702 1814
18 0535 2014 0638 1856 0703 1813
19 0535 2014 0639 1854 0704 1811
20 0535 2015 0640 1853 0705 1810
21 0535 2015 0640 1851 0706 1809
22 0535 2015 0641 1850 0707 1808
23 0536 2015 0642 1848 0708 1807
24 0536 2015 0643 1847 0709 1805
25 0536 2015 0644 1845 0710 1804
26 0537 2016 0644 1844 0711 1803
27 0537 2016 0645 1842 0712 1802
28 0537 2016 0646 1841 0713 1801
29 0538 2016 0647 1839 0714 1800
30 0538 2016 0648 1838 0715 1758
31 0716 1757
Thanks for the input! If we hike Langley, I am hoping to be on the summit for sunrise, so both of these posts are very helpful.

Since I've never hiked Langley, I'm not really sure how much time to allow for a sunrise hike though. If I were staying at Trail Camp and hiking Whitney, I would allow 4.5 hours... 4 hrs for a leisurely paced hike with a 30 minute buffer to catch some of the cool things that happen before you actually see the sun.

Based on the the info above, how much time should I allow if we camp at:
1.CWL 3?
2. Long Lake?
3. Harvey's spot at the top of NAP?
Originally Posted By: 63ChevyII.com
Based on the the info above, how much time should I allow if we camp at:
1.CWL 3?
2. Long Lake?
3. Harvey's spot at the top of NAP?

here are our times
8/5
1003am left trailhead Cottonwood parking lot with 8 day pack
202pm tanked up with 3 qts at Long Lake. 17 min break
220pm off for the pass
500 pm NAP campsite, with packs. 12,200 ft

8/6
625 am left NAP, 32F
727 am dumped packs part way up . Approx 12,400 ft
829 am start of rockier area
1008 summit. we took a long detour zig zag first to left to short pinnacles, then along the cliff line. Only spent 5 or 10 min at top. If we had useful cairns or knew the best way, it would have been a bit faster. Coming back down we could see a straighter route.

1205 back to packs at 12,400, then headed down first chute north towards highest Soldier lake, veering off through treeline into Miter Basin

We had 8 days of supplies and too much other stuff. Your pack should be lighter and times perhaps faster.
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/15/14 04:06 PM
It really depends on how you feel at Long Lake or CL#3.

When I'm in good shape, I can make it down to Lower Rock Creek Crossing and have no problem reaching Lower Soldier Lake when in fair shape. My preference is Army Pass for Langley.

The only problems I see is having enough clothing for the cold, wind up at the pass and ability to sleep at 12,000' to 12,300'.

If you decide to stay low, there is a lot of exploring options to fill out the day.
I really like the idea of sleeping on top of NAP, but the more I think about it, the more I think it might be too much for the group with the short trip time.

We are going up to celebrate someones birthday. Two of the people coming aren't in great hiking shape, although they are hikers (both have summitted Whitney). They are both planning on staying at camp while the rest of the group summits.

I am guessing the best idea would be for us to stay at CWL #3 and take OA pass to Langley. Based on the GPS Track I created, it looks like it is about 4 miles, 3000 ft elevation gain from CWL #3. Does that sound right? If that's the case, I'll plan on leaving camp about 6 hrs before sunrise.
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/16/14 04:42 PM
When you start to climb Langley from the top of the pass there is one trail. When you get to ~12,300' there are 30 trails. Stay as far to your left as you feel comfortable...further left the steeper it is.

When you get to the mountain, look for gaps that are ducked. These are short class 3 sections that will save you about 20 minutes each way. If you feel uncomfortable do this, just hang a left until the ducked class 2 scree slog appears.
wbtravis,

Here is a link to the GPX file I have:
Gmap4, Cottonwood Lakes & Langley

So, I'm guessing this track goes further to the right than you recommend?

Being late in the season, am I correct in thinking that there is no need to reserve permits?

OA Pass - any issues following it in the dark? Is it all class 2?
Chev
I cannot tell you about OAP, but as for Langley standard approach....

One person told me just do it, it is obvious. I thought that was snarky, but it was true.

Think veer left and you will be just fine.

At the beginning of the steeper bank and rocks, we ended up at one of the 8 ft tall cairns not even trying to. The single trail just leads there anyway. Sort of dead center in the picture below.

At that point we did have a quandry. It seemed like that cairn stupidly dead ended us. Going around left of the cairn was a third class move over a drop off. No go. Going up and to the right was what I did. On the way back down we realized that straight up above the cairn through an obvious but narrow slot for 10 to 20 ft was the actual route. I suppose that might be considered class 3, very short and easy coming down it. I did not go up it as it seemed awkward. Again, we avoided it. This was the ONLY area that was any issue.

After that, it does not matter. It is all wide open easy terrain, easy class 2 at the most, just sand, small rocks, and lots of use trails intertwining, or none at all. We did not aim straight for the summit unseen from there, but took an easier long zigzag to the far left toward small pinnacles on the skyline, then back around right along the cliff top to the summit. Coming back down we just came straight down to that slot I mentioned.

Sorry, I do not have a useful picture, but this one was sent to me by Karin or Tracie. The left route is what they did going up (and Dan and I went to the skyline twice as far further left), the right line is the way straight (can be used for either up or down). The important thing is to not get into the steeper terrain and cliff way, way, way over to the right. I do not see how anyone accidentally gets over there. Your eye and feet for the obvious way up on the standard approach just do not go there.
Think left. Sorry. I cannot tell where the 5 or 6 eight ft tall cairns are on the picture.

Picture and route from Karin and/or Tracie


Edit
Here is a picture of mine that might help. It was taken from NAP. The obvious trail takes you straight, then as it steepens it veers left a bit, aiming for the less steep left side of the cliff band. It is nowhere as steep as it looks, at least on the left. Again follow the obvious use trails and footprints. After the short crux of the route (the cairn and going around it that I mentioned before) we headed further left than most people do toward the small pinnacles on the left skyline, then cut right across the cliffs to the summit, then did not retrace our steps going down, but came more or less straight following lots and lots of use trails in the sand, back to that cairn. Easy stuff. Plus, at some point we could see that important cairn on the way down. If good visibility and daylight, then it is a walk in the park.








Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/17/14 03:00 PM
You want to stay well to the left of the gully. As Harvey said, it pretty obvious what you need to.

That track looks well to the right of where I would go.

There are two problems you have to address...the route to the base and the where you head up. I go left and steep and through the gaps. You can right and take a longer walk around to the class 2 walk up. It is just longer.

Oh, make sure you bring a pair of scree gaiters. You will need'em.
Thanks for the input. I'm sure I am overthinking this (as usual).

I found this GPX track. Looks like it is closer to what everyone is recommending. Since we will be ascending in the dark, I'd like to have a track that's close to where we want to be.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=307498

Posted By: smart1 Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/17/14 07:54 PM
follow the cairn... that gpx track looks like the main route marked with cairn all of the way up that we followed in August. There are only 1 or 2 places where the next cairn isn't clear but if you head uphill you'll find it. There are lots of use trails and footprints that will get you there via various routes. We got multiple and varying pieces of advice from hikers coming down. We chose to follow the cairn and it worked well for us.

I don't know about White Mt. Peak but on a clear day the view from the top of Langley was spectacular!
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/18/14 03:49 PM
Ducks are transient.

I will kick over ducks most of the time on obvious routes to maintain wilderness...and this is an obvious route.

Chevy,

You will be ok. Just make sure everyone in the group has a good light and if there is ambiguity make sure all the brains are working on how to solve it.
Posted By: smart1 Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/18/14 07:25 PM
The cairn on Langley are not transient and I don't think you'll be kicking them over.

Agreed
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/19/14 02:33 AM
Cairns-from-Hell. Megacairns. Cairns-on-Steroids. Feh.

Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/19/14 02:36 AM
Oh, btw, the fastest way to the summit is in the background ... There's a nice easy class 2/3 chute, with no actual exposure, to the right of the big rock outcropping visible in the background. Though if you keep going to the right (south), you get into class 3 and then class 4 territory...
Posted By: wagga Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/19/14 03:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Akichow
Cairns-from-Hell. Megacairns. Cairns-on-Steroids. Feh.

Hey! I live in Cairns. I resent that!
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/19/14 04:02 PM
Hmmm...it would take a while but I'm up to the task. However, I have seen Mt. Langley a few times and am not interested in seeing it anytime soon.
Posted By: KathyW Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/19/14 11:14 PM
I believe the NPS is building those cairns as they prepare to build a trail to the summit of Langley. It sounds like there is a good chance day hike permits will be required for Langley eventually.
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/21/14 04:55 PM
That pile of rocks goes back to at least 2001. I have a picture of them from a Whitney trip in August of that year.
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/21/14 05:37 PM
I don't doubt that there was a pile of rocks back then, but the megacairns are new. There are maybe 3-4 of the new megacairns going up to the summit, plus a new NPS sign on the flanks of Langley that explains them. They are, as the poster above explains, about a new NPS effort in that region. Back in July, I had some correspondence with the SEKI Chief Park Ranger about them and the routing that they encouraged, which at least as of July 5, sent people directly over a class 3 chute with some exposure (at least that problem I suspect has been fixed). The saga is explained on a post I did back then on the WPSMB.

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/...=true#Post98155
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/22/14 06:04 AM
Saw on FB that some folks got turned around at 13,500' on Langley today due to snow.
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/22/14 04:11 PM
Thanks for posting the letter.

I was unaware of the what was going on here.

It is my belief there will continue to be social trails to the peak because what the NPS chose as a route...less steep and shortest. It can't be! The shortest route is the steepest. People will continue to use the shortest route to the summit.

The other problem is one of the trailhead being in the Inyo and the summit in SEKI. SEKI will have to ask the Inyo to impose a quota. If that happens, who is going to enforce it and how? It would have to be with local volunteers and population base is too small for even nominal coverage. Heck, the forest service can't even enforce the Bear Flats Trail closure in SoCal...I saw people preparing to go up there the last two weekends...and cars parked in the usual Bear Flats spots on the way down.
Posted By: Ken Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/22/14 05:41 PM
Calder Reid is the answer to "who"



http://www.wildebeat.net/index.cgi/2006/08/
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/23/14 02:00 AM
You got the who, still waiting for the how.

To impose a permit/quota system, you will need a commitment from FS and a whole lot of patrolling volunteers. Without that, it is a waste of time.

I do not see how they can get the resources required from a valley with such a small population where the minimum distance to the trailheads is in excess of 60 miles. Most volunteers I have patrolled with do so close to home to minimize expenses.
Originally Posted By: Akichow
Saw on FB that some folks got turned around at 13,500' on Langley today due to snow.

Do you know if that was due to it snowing or due to snow/ice on the trail?

My group is down to 4 now. I just looked and about half of the reserveable permits are gone (18 left). Are there walk-in permits in addition to these? Do you recommend we get reservable permits while they are available?
Posted By: Steve C Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/24/14 11:32 PM
Langley overnight permits are like all other non-Whitney-Main-Trail permits: 40% are held back for walk-in requests, available starting 11 AM the day before the entry date.

This late in the year, I don't think the permits will run out.

By the way, I saw some Langley shots on FB (CA Peaks group):
Posted By: saltydog Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/25/14 12:07 AM
Originally Posted By: wbtravis
You got the who, still waiting for the how.

To impose a permit/quota system, you will need a commitment from FS and a whole lot of patrolling volunteers.


There is already a permit/quota system, in place. How is that enforced?

The only change would be to add the dayhiker element to it. What's the big deal about that?

If overuse of the new trail is the problem, go to a paid reservation system like for Whitney, the infrastructure is already in place. Poof! Instant funding. And you can pretend that Wagbags are required and everything, If the use is not to that level yet, then what's the problem?

Build it and see if they come. Bet they don't, not without some promotion. Never done Langley, but it sounds like a lot more fun as it is than with a trail. And for that matter, a lot more fun than Whitney.

Probably the solution is in marketing rather than in building the trail. Diminish the pressure on Whitney by diminishing the appeal. Create a new Whitney - Langley Zone, promote Langley on its own merits: a little class 2, maybe some 3 lots of different approaches, etc. When you get down to it, aside from the abstraction the Whitney is the higher, isn't Langley the better experience?
Posted By: Bee Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/25/14 03:05 AM
Originally Posted By: saltydog
When you get down to it, aside from the abstraction the Whitney is the higher, isn't Langley the better experience?


"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"



"aside from the abstraction that Whitney is the higher" IS the only reason that the one and done-rs come from the four corners of the world to tramp through a pish stunk trail strewn with bags filled with dung (rather than any other beautiful place in the range)
Posted By: Steve C Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/25/14 05:13 AM
Or maybe this would entice people to hike Langley.

T Johnson posted this on the CA Peaks FB page yesterday:


Click to reveal.. (...Randy sheep...)
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/25/14 06:30 AM
True confessions. I like the Whitney hike. Okay, I prefer approaching from the West. But I also like the hike up from the East. And I like staying at Trail Camp, where you are guaranteed a fantastic alpenglow morning. And it can be very social at Trail Camp if you want it to be, which is fun. And there are ways to minimize the, shall we say, sanitation challenged aspects of Trail Camp. It is not like I lack options -- I have scoped out a whole host of campsites up and down the trail, including a few fantastic sites that I have found through exploration way off the trail. I know, that must be some form of heresy to admit to finding something to like about Trail Camp.

I also like the Langley hike. That point at which you enter the basin area about 5 miles in is superb. There is the massif in profile, reflected in the lake. The weather always seems to be doing something beautiful and dramatic when that view opens up.

Langley does have a trail all the way to the top. Actually, it has about 50 trails to the top, once you get to, say, 13,000 feet. Sure, you can find class 3 and 4 if you want on Langley. You can also find class 3 and 4 on Whitney if you want. You can also do Langley entirely on class 1, with maybe 50 feet of class 2 or 3 with virtually no exposure. Though you have to poke around a little to find the best route for those 50 feet. And ignore the megacairns for a few seconds.

It's not either/or for me. The mountains are not competing with each other. They are both fun to climb.
Originally Posted By: Akichow
It's not either/or for me. The mountains are not competing with each other. They are both fun to climb.

K sounds like one of my favorite authors

They will discover there that height counts for little and that it is the hill that matters...There is something greater. It is the spirit of the hills.
Frank Smythe, The Spirit of the Hills page 51-52
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 09/25/14 04:11 PM
Salty,

It's not that easy. Those who patrol Cucamonga Wilderness can tell you.

You need people...a lot of people. There is not a volunteer base big enough in the Owens Valley to get compliance rates where they need to be...in the very high 90s and you also have interagency problems in play here. Mt Whitney has its high compliance rate not because of there is a permit required for day hiking but because there are boots on the group checking those permits...both volunteer and seasonal rangers.

Mt. Langley will never require a zone stamp, it is just not that popular. People do not plan for the better part of year to get to 14,023' like they do for Mt. Whitney. I know I did not...or for any other Sierra peak.
These pics were posted by a user on the JMT facebook group who hiked Langley last weekend:

on the ascent:




a few hours later during the descent:









It's been getting chilly at the CWD 'weather station' which is at 10,150' elevation. The low temps for 9/27-9/29 were 23, 20 & 23 degrees.

I haven't decided if I'm headed up or not this weekend. I may end up heading to Joshua Tree for an overnight on Quail Mtn, or try the Wonderland of Rocks Traverse.
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/01/14 02:29 AM
With this forecast, if it were me, I'd go for it. Carefully and prudently, and prepared to turn around if the weather merited it. (But being me, I'd stay the heck away from Old Army Pass.)

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lon=-118.23947&lat=36.52318#.VCtmqPldWSo

Spot forecast of Langley.

Very very nice.

I am jealous.
yikes, no reserveable permits left for Cottonwood Lakes!
Trip is starting to fall apart on me. No reserveable permits for Langley, people are uncertain if they still want to go and I had to drop off my vehicle at the mechanic's yesterday (vibration in the front end).

I haven't given up on going yet. I am still hoping we can get walk-in permits, but if we drive up to Lone Pine and there are no permits left:

1. For using a stove @ Barcroft Gate, can I pick up a campfire permit @ the visitor center in Lone Pine or do I need to go to the White Mountain Ranger Station?

2. Does 2.5 hours from Lone Pine to Barcroft Gate seem realistic, assuming the road isn't in horrible condition (if we go, I'd be driving a Tahoe with 4wd).

3. Another hike I thought of doing was Mt. Gould (from Onion Valley via Mt. Gould, but we're too close to the arrival date to reserve a campsite. If we were to drive all the way up to Onion Valley and there were no walk-in sites, what are some of our options for camping?
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 03:47 PM
Chevy,

It's October and if there are not a slew of walk ins not left over this weekend I would be surprised. Don't worry about getting a permit.

Many going up to the Sierra this coming weekend are interested in one thing...the aspens, not the high peaks.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 03:53 PM
63: It's October! There is a quota of 60 on the Cottonwood lakes trail, 24 are held back for walk-in requests. There is NO WAY you will not get the permits you need if you show up.

I am sure lots of people reserved the permits back when summer was in full swing, and you can be sure half of them have already decided not to go.

Now that the permits are handled online by a nationwide system, it is high time they start giving out partial refunds for cancellations. I am sure that would free up a lot of slots in the future.
I hope (and assume) you guys are right. There were 18 permits when I looked last week and figured there was no way all of the reserveable permits would be used up. I was a litle shocked when I checked yesterday!

If I get my vehicle back in time and everyone doesn't bail on this trip, I'm going grin

As a side note, have any of you hiked Mt Gould? How dangerous is the exposure on the summit block?

What about Cloudripper? Is there a use trail or a somewhat obvious route to the summit? I have been looking at the North Slope 'route.'
Posted By: Anonymous1 Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 05:37 PM
You worry too much. Forget Langley, I've never had walk-in problems with Whitney even on the Labor Day weekend once.

Never did Gould. See link for a route to Cloudripper from one of my friends:
http://mcquilken.smugmug.com/Mountaineer...8&k=LNZr3Sw

I've only done the West Side and you'll need to scramble for that. You should try Agassiz. The approach is short and straightforward.
Originally Posted By: 2600fromatari
You worry too much.

I do! It is one of my biggest and most annoying flaws. I blame it on too much idle time sitting at a desk during the day, waiting for something 'bad' to happen. crazy

Thanks for the pics. I will look up Agassiz.


I've been comparing the temps recorded at CWD (~10k ft elevation) with the forecast for the area. CWD is consistently getting temps 10 lower than the forecast. Is it reasonable to estimate the temperature on Langley's summit is 10-20 degrees cooler?
Posted By: Steve C Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 07:18 PM
> I've been comparing the temps recorded at CWD (~10k ft elevation) with the forecast for the area.

Which forecast are you looking at?
Posted By: Anonymous1 Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 07:19 PM
I follow the -4 degree for every thousand feet rule and it's been close. Based on that, you should expect the temps in your predictions for Langley if not even lower due to wind chill factor.

EDIT:
You might find useful-
http://mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4938
Originally Posted By: Steve C
> I've been comparing the temps recorded at CWD (~10k ft elevation) with the forecast for the area.

Which forecast are you looking at?

I've been using forecast.gov and mountainforecast.com. For example, for the low temp Fri night (Sept 26):

forecast.gov prediction @ 10,000 ft: 36 degrees
mountainforecast prediction @ 11484 ft: 28 degrees

CWD observed low @ 10150 ft: 23 degrees
The guy that took the photos I posted said it dipped into the teens Friday night at the Cottonwood Lakes where he camped.


Originally Posted By: 2600fromatari
I follow the -4 degree for every thousand feet rule and it's been close. Based on that, you should expect the temps in your predictions for Langley if not even lower due to wind chill factor.

EDIT:
You might find useful-
http://mtsanjacinto.info/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4938


I believe I've read 3-5 degrees per 1,000 ft depending on humidity and cloud cover. I usually go with 5 degrees.

Thanks - Sounds like he was on the trail at the same time as the hiker that took the photos above.

A friend of mine has a similar story from Rabbit Peak a couple of years ago. He joined a group for the hike, going with people that had completed the hike several times. They got stuck in a bad storm. The leaders were 'map & compass only guys (oddly enough they left them at home),' but due to the very poor visibility, my friend ended up leading the group off the mountain using the 'backtrack' feature on his GPS. It was a good reminder to be self-sufficient, even when going with experienced hikers.
Posted By: Akichow Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/02/14 11:42 PM
Do Langley!

Either way, can now get free California fire permit online. If you Google it, it will take you to the site where you have to watch a quick little video and then you print out your permit.

http://www.preventwildfireca.org/Campfire-Permit/
Posted By: wbtravis Re: Mt. Langley or White Mt Peak, Oct 4&5 - 10/03/14 04:18 PM
First off, don't worry about the permits in the Horseshoe Meadow area...there are more ways to skin cat there, period. There will be a walk-in permit for you.

Mt. Gould...Yes, there is exposure at the top, not a lot but it is exposed. This can be done as a day hike.

Cloudripper Peak...I did it through Big Pine Lakes. Simple route we made more difficult by collective stupidity on the way up. The last part is class 3 but I never felt at risk. We righted our mistakes on the way down, making the thing a lot easier. An all day affair from Lake #3.
Thanks for the help everyone. My vehicle will not be ready in time for the trip. I guess this one will have wait until next year frown
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