I'm hoping to share some of the various expertise out there:

I want to plan a backpack trip including the Whitney summit. I hope to go mid August 2016 and camp for 5 nights with a group of 5 to 7 people.. My original plan was to enter near Independence (Onion Valley?) and exit at Whitney Portal. However I think my chances of obtaining permits for this are slim.

What are some alternatives? If I have to exit other than Whitney Portal I think it may take more time to finish after summiting Mt Whitney so my entry point would have to be adjusted to make it a 5 night trip.

Hi Frank,
If you can decide now on the exact dates that you want to hike, there are permits available! Most people wait, so the permits get taken. The permits you need, "Kearsarge Pass JM31" and "Mt. Whitney (Trail Crest Exit) JM35", can be reserved together, and 6 months in advance. Currently, the 6-month window ends at July 7, and you can check what is available. Here's the Rec.gov link for Inyo permits.

In "Looking For", select "Overnight Exiting Mt Whitney".
Entry Trail: Kearsarge.

I see that there are plenty of the Kearsarge entry permits -- there are 36 reservable slots per day on that trail. So you won't have trouble getting those. The more tricky ones are the exit permits. Only 15 are reservable, and while mid-week exits are available, the July 1-4 window are already reserved below the 7 you would need. (However, that is the only time they are scarce so far.)

The complicated part is that you can't reserve the Kearsarge permit separately from the exit permit, so you have to wait until the 6-month window makes the exit permits available before reserving the trip. Watch the site and the Kearsarge permit numbers closer to the date you want. Once that exit permit date comes available, reserve the trip. I think the next date becomes available at 7 AM.

Edit: (Note, on Jan 6 @11 PM, Jul 7 is available, so it might be 9 PM. Edit: Jan 7, 10 AM, Jul 7 is last available. Aha! Jul 8 slots became available at 9 PM sharp on Jan 7!) Once they become available, they can be reserved in 4 clicks: "Update Availability" on the exit permits, Click the newly opened date, scroll down and click "Book Permit". (You MUST first have (1) your group size set to the number you want, and (2) the Entry Date already selected --the selected date shows gold.) Practice this several times a couple of nights before your exit date actually opens. You can get all the way down to paying for the permit, then cancel it. I had all 15 exit slots tied up tonight for a while. :-)

Steve, thanks for the info. The time available for my group is about Aug 10-18. Do you think permits will be less available mid August compared to early July? I can get by with 5 permits so will certainly monitor openings as time progresses.

Are there any other nearby entry points that might be more available. Or one that might enable me to exit somewhere other than Whitney Portal after summiting Mt Whitney?

(edited) Or maybe I can lengthen my trip and still enter at Kearsarge but exit somewhere other than Whitney Portal.

The next exit point south is Horseshoe Meadows. I think that adds 2 or 3 days hiking from Crabtree, via the PCT, past Chicken Spring Lake, over Cottonwood Pass. Though I haven't been that way yet, it seems a bit less spectacular after all the fun stuff coming in from Kearsarge. It might be more enjoyable to go south to north if you include Cottonwood.

You would have the option of also exiting over Army Pass or New Army Pass -- slightly higher than Cottonwood Pass, but you get to see Cottonwood Lakes.

Exiting Cottonwood is easier than Trail Crest, though, since you won't need to haul your packs up and over such a high pass.

I have the feeling you will be able to get your permits to exit Whitney. If not, then get the Kearsarge entry without the exit permit, then (Plan B) try for some walk-in exit permits when you pick up the permit. Plan C would then be to extend the trip and exit at Horseshoe.

Plan D could be exiting via the MR and the "Easy Walk-off" route, but I don't think everyone in your group would enjoy that route, and it requires carrying the backpacks all the way to the Whitney summit.

BTW, before you actually get to the time when you want to reserve your actual permit, you NEED to get online at recreation.gov and practice entering a trip. It gives you a 15-minute window to setup the trip, and that includes specifying overnight locations each night of the trip. You can put in bogus camp locations and change them later, but you cannot change the entry date and exit permit date at all, so get the important part done and pay first. On your actual trip, the overnight locations are not something you MUST adhere to. They are only for statistical info and starting points if a SAR is necessary.
    Practice link

Thanks again, Steve. A couple more questions

What day is my exit permit? If I camp at Guitar Lake then summit Whitney then camp at Trail Camp or Outpost which day is my "exit"? The day I am at Trail Crest or the day I am at Whitney Portal?

Can you suggest an out and back backpack to Mt Whitney in case I am not successful obtaining the permits I want?

For the exit permit, it is the day you start descending from Trail Crest, as if Trail Crest were the trail head. Though we have heard rangers are flexible on this -- day before/after is ok, just HAVE the exit permits.

The out-and-back would be to enter at Horseshoe Meadows, and use the PCT, maybe return over Army Pass. I am pretty sure you are going to get all the permits you need, though. See the following...

Last night I played on recreation.gov and found that the exit permits available in the 6 month window move to the next day at 9 PM sharp. (That's midnight Eastern time, where the Rec.gov website "lives".) So if you want to be sure and grab the permits you need, you can practice the process before the night when the ones you actually want become available. Practice makes perfect, and if you do that, you can grab the permits maybe 5 seconds after they pop up.

You can set up the screen (here's the Aug 5-18 window) ...but practice using a current window that shows several "X=not available" dates on the right, with mostly available dates across the 14-day span.

At 8:59 PM... Make sure you are signed-in, set your group size correctly, and have the entry date for Kearsarge already set. (Note that if you select your Kearsarge date, it turns gold, then if you Update Availability on that section, the selected date shifts to the left side of the 2-week range.)

Practice repeatedly clicking the "Update Availability" on the exit permit section, so you catch the event of the next date opening.

By repeatedly clicking "Update Availability" on the Exit Permits, you can catch it as soon as the date opens. Once it does, quickly click the "A" to select that date, scroll to the bottom, and click the Book Permit button. The time it takes you to click, scroll down, and click is all you need to grab your permits. You then have 15 minutes to complete and pay for the permits. Nobody else can get the permits during that 15 minutes.

In that 15 minutes, you have to fill in the overnight spots and pay. The overnight spots can be anything in their list--you can change them later, just select anything. "Other/Don't Know" works for all but the first night. Don't forget to enter "Foot" in the Travel Method, and check the "Yes I have read..." box at the bottom. You can go all the way to "Complete this purchase" in your practice session, to make sure you understand all the steps.

Practice this several times a couple of nights before your exit date actually opens. ...I had all 15 exit slots tied up last night for a while. :-)

Thanks. I've done the practice.

Maybe I should try to book some permits with the exit at Trail Crest one day ahead of my plan. If successful maybe I could get by with that permit actually exiting a day later than the permit says. Or if successful I could try again the next night for the correct date. I'm not sure if I could use my account for a second group of permits or if I could use my wife's account. And would the system note that my name showed up as an alternate leader on my wife's account and vice versa?

I don't know if the system would try to prevent you. But I doubt it. If you have money to play with, you could experiment with booking one trip and try booking another that conflicts with the first. You would only need to pay for the first one. And don't use Whitney, because those include the $15 per hiker Whitney Zone fee.

As for booking the day before... If you are watching the several nights before the actual, you should be able to get a sense of the demand pressure, and base your decision on that.

I wouldn't book two trips -- with your group size, you are talking $120 per trip!

Rangers have been known to "borrow" an exit day from before or after your requested exit day, so that, for example, a 6 person group can exit together even though there are only 5 slots open for that day. Call the permit office. They can still do things for you the old fashioned way.

And yes, as Steve says, they will not hold you to the exact day you pick. Try to do that, yes, but they realize you may be a day or two early or late depending on backpack travel on the trail.
(obviously this is not true for a dayhike). It also means that instead of trying to grab one particular day for an exit permit, you actually could use one from any of three days.

The Rec.gov site says "Your exit date is the day you descend to Whitney Portal Road."

If I camp at Guitar Lake on Sunday, August 15, summit Mt Whitney and camp at Trail Camp or Outpost on Monday, August 16, then descend to Whitney Portal on Tuesday August 17, my exit date would be August 17, correct?

Yes, August 17. Since you found that on the website, that would be the final authority.

I don't think a ranger is going to give you any trouble, though, if your group gets Whitney Portal fever and decides on the 16th that they are tired of camping.

FYI

As an experiment I booked a trip for 2 entering Kearsarge Pass JM31 and exiting Mount Whitney (Trail Crest) JM35. The next day I cancelled that resy. I was refunded the $30 use fee and not refunded the $6 resy fee.

Hey Steve, maybe you can figure something out for me.

I've been experimenting on the reservations site for my planned trip. After 9PM tonight entrance permits for Kearsarge Pass for July 20 (6 months from tomorrow) became available as expected.

However the 15 exit permits at Trail Crest Exit did not. The 13 days before July 20 show "R" (all reserved. For July 20 through Nov 1 all it shows is "X" (Not Available) with no number. The future entrance permits for Kearsarge Pass show the "X" and the number "36". Starting Nov 2 the Trail Crest exit permits shoe the "X" and the number "100"

Any thoughts on this?

Looks like they changed the time those permits become available. At 10:30 PM they still are not available (X). Or it's a software glitch. Let's keep an eye on it.

After Nov 2, all permits are available via walk-in. The demand for permits is nil, so they aren't available online.

Around this time in 2014, the exit permits switched from midnight eastern to ?10am? eastern. It was 3pm in Europe at the time IIRC.

Assuming its the same this year, by the time you wake up we'll know the answer...!

Checking at 7:45 AM Pacific, only 1 left for July 20. I think britonwhit is on to something.

Yes, the day's permits become available at 7 AM here now. I tried this morning and was unsuccessful. It showed the 15 available but when I clicked "Book It" I got the message "Inventory is not available for the entire stay period". The entrance cannot be booked. " The refreshed screen showed zero available.

Hey RenoFrank,
Another option to consider is to enter on the west side, such as at Roads End, instead of Onion Valley. That is, if you don't mind the more complicated vehicle shuttling. Unless things have changed in the last year or two, exiting at Trail Crest is only subject to the quota for trips originating in Inyo National Forest.

Glenn, thanks.

I don't mind a complicated vehicle shuttle but I don't know my way around in that area.I even considered exiting at Horseshoe Meadows but I want to summit Mt Whitney and only camp 5 nights. I don't know of any entry points that would work (Like I said, I'm not familiar with that area.) I would like to hike over Forester Pass.

Someone suggested an out and back to Whitney from ? I figured I'd look into that if unable to get my permits.

I do appreciate all the help. Some are probably wondering why don't I just look at a map. I will. So far this thread has helped me immensely.

Frank, Roads End in Kings Canyon just heads up Bubbs Creek toward Vidette Meadow, and joins your trail coming over Kearsarge Pass right where your KP trail drops down to Vidette Meadow and Bubbs Cr. (Map link0

However, it is a long slog: You start at 5k elevation and climb a long time over a long distance. I think starting on the east side is certainly easier from the car-shuttle stand point. It's a long drive to Roads End: about 2 hours from Fresno.

But you certainly wouldn't need that infernal Exit Permit!

I've been using this person's hike to help me plan my hike. It seems the start at Roads End is about the same length. I could camp the 1st night about 10 miles in from Roads End before I reach the PCT near Lower Vidette Meadow. From the point where I reach the PCT it looks like the same hike. I could camp the 2nd night somewhere before Forester Pass and be right on schedule. Am I missing something here? What is the difference between the two routes? Is it mainly the difficult car shuttle? And more importantly do I not need an exit permit (Trail Crest) to finish at Whitney Portal? Do I need a permit to enter at Roads End?

From Roads End it is 4500' elevation climb to the Vidette Meadow junction. It's a 2500' gain to Kearsarge pass.

Any thoughts on this scenario?

Someone in my group gets permits for us starting at Roads End and exiting at Whitney Portal. I don't need a Trail Crest exit permit, correct?

Another in my group gets a permit entering at Kearsarge Pass. An out and back or even exiting at Horseshoe Meadows.

We start at Onion Valley and exit at Whitney Portal showing the appropriate permit depending where we are.

RenoFrank, I assume the 'tunnel Tram/Elevator' shown on your elevation profile is a joke?

Or is there really such a shortcut for rangers going between the Crabtree ranger station and the Portal?

Jim, it's not my elevation profile. I found it online. And I've never been there. Also note the "Forester Pass Elevator ($5 Fee)"

That's definitely an inventive method. It would work, too. Only catch is that to get the actual permit for Roads End, someone would need to drive over and sign in to pick up the actual permit, then drive back.

I did that last year for an overnight permit for Little Yosemite Valley and Half Dome: Drove up, picked up a walk-in permit, then drove home. Drove back next day and started the hike.

Didn't notice that one. The 'Slightly out of scale' hikers are amusing too. Got to love trail humor.


When I did Whitney last year, I did joke with someone about needing a escalator up from Trail Camp to Trail Crest. Must have been the lack of oxygen.

Hmm. Could work. But at altitude you might not be thinking as clearly as you would need for pulling off such a caper. Mr. Ranger: “Can I see your permit?” Group leader(s): “Sure! Er, well, um, wait a minute... First can you tell us exactly where we are?”

As Steve said, the Roads End route starts lower than the Onion Valley route. It's also 4 miles longer. On the plus side, the long gradual uphill of Bubbs Creek might make for better acclimatization, and your first night of camping would likely be 1000' or more lower than the other way.

Mount Whitney, The Complete Trailhead-to-Summit Hiking Guide by Paul Richins, Jr. has an overview complete with elevation profile for both routes.

I got up early this AM and tried to reserve 5 slots -- they were gone before I could click, scroll, and click again!

practice link

So Steve, your thoughts? 12:01 ET?

paul

Paul, it's 10 AM ET, 7:00 PST.
Practicing how to minimize mouse movements to reduce the amount of time it takes to move-click-move-click.

Alternative is to book a trip from Kearsarge to Horseshoe Meadows, then hope for walk-in exit permits.

Can't we trick the system somehow?

paul

I got lucky and snagged a July 22nd exit permit (just kind of appeared when I refreshed the date range). My biggest concern was even when an exit permit should show up there wouldn't be an entry date that would work. Got lucky there too. Didn't even need to have a 2 week entry/exit difference. "I guess I walked a lot faster than I thought I would!"

I know last year permits started reappearing in May because of people dropping lottery dates they couldn't use, but that shouldn't happen with exit permits.

Just have to keep checking and get lucky, I guess.

I had a play with it today, I'm now "in training" for making a reservation in a few weeks' time (for mid-late August).

I'd minimised the mouse clicks, screen movements, etc. through some browser optimisation, and I estimate <0.5secs from availability appearing to me clicking "book permit". I failed.

It was sufficiently fast that I wonder whether someone has a script running to automate this... Does anybody use the exit permits commercially?

You were competing against me. I ran a practice and nailed 6 slots this morning. I turned them back in after 4 minutes. The mouse movements... and the speed of your Internet connection come into play here.

I am pretty sure commercial outfits are banned from the exit trail. I know the TSX Challenge people, who do a Sierra crossing are required to exit via Horseshoe Meadow for this very reason. Even though they aren't even required to have an exit permit, since they are coming from the west side, and a non-Inyo N.F. trail head.

That explains it...! You were very fast; I'd optimised the browser so that only one mouse movement was required (and 2 clicks and a keypress) and you still beat me. Maybe the transatlantic cable latency let me down.

Today, even an hour later, there are still 5 permits left so my suspicions about a script are unfounded.

I just cancelled a reservation that will make available 5 permits exiting Trail Crest-Mt Whitney on Sunday August 14. If that works for you keep an eye on that site/page.

I saw them this morning around 7 AM, but they soon disappeared.