Mt Whitney Zone
Posted By: Bob West Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 03/31/20 11:10 PM
Some people seem very worried about getting permits to hike Whitney this coming season. With so many closures in force, and more to come, those worried ones need to really reevaluate their need for that big adventure. Here is an important item from the Pacific Trail Association:

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/permits/

A lot of trailheads, including Whitney, are going to be shut-down until the virus has cleared out.

If you insist on coming up to hike or climb, just consider that you may be helping spread the virus beyond your metro area and into someone else's home. Don't be selfish; consider the health of others, and not just your oh-so-important fun.

The mountains are not going to go away; they will still be there waiting for you when this national crisis is over.

Posted By: Steve C Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not hike - 04/01/20 03:49 AM
On the other hand, this CV19 virus is not going to go away. Getting enough equipment (ventilators & protective gear) to hospitals to handle all the sick will likely take at least 6 months. It may be a year before a vaccine is ready, and many months after that before the most vulnerable can be vaccinated.

The need to avoid contact with others could well continue until the end of 2021. I am not sure how long the shelter-in-place mode can or will continue.

I am sure hoping we can at least get the testing process ramped up to the point that thousands can be tested each day. I am wondering how in the world South Korea got their process up and running so fast.

I would sure like to see what others think.
Posted By: Bob West Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not hike - 04/01/20 02:03 PM
Latest from Bishop PD:

https://twitter.com/BishopPolice_CA/status/1244331833581436929/photo/1
Posted By: ace Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/01/20 03:07 PM
Hey Bobby, settle down. Don’t like you’re the ultimate gatekeeper of the Sierras. You’re just a dude who lives in Bishop.
Posted By: Louie Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/01/20 03:48 PM
I likely have more contact with people while on a walk around my neighborhood than I would in a weekend of hiking Whitney. So which spreads the virus more?

The only alternative is to sit in your living room for the next 6 months or a year until they develop a vaccine, which is something I doubt most people are willing to do.
I live on the central coast now, but I love the Eastern Sierra. We can't even go to our beaches here, and you're complaining?

Locals in the Eastern Sierra are really pissed at out of town people, who think it's their "right" to hike wherever they want.
Posted By: ace Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/01/20 07:03 PM
I don’t think you understand the concept of the NPS. It’s not for locals, it’s for the country, and the whole country contributes to its survival via Federal Taxes. In fact, they probably contribute a lot more to the parks than the Bishop poors who make $50k per year? So I’ll hike whenever the hell I want. Don’t act like hiking is any different than any street in the country. People passing by each other.
Posted By: Louie Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/01/20 07:06 PM
If a public trail is open, out of town people do have as much right to hike there as people who live nearby.
True
Originally Posted By: ace
the Bishop poors who make $50k per year?

FWIW, the annual median income of all Americans who worked full-time is less than $50K. And besides, the guy living on $50K a year in Bishop is doing a lot better than the guy making $100K a year in San Francisco.
Posted By: BFR Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/02/20 03:48 AM
Here's my two cents on this for what it's worth:

Use common sense. Know yourself. If you are going to go out and hike something that is low risk for you, go do it. When you travel to wherever you want to hike, use common sense in interacting with the environment. Minimize human contact, wash hands, etc etc.

If you are attempting something that is higher risk, i.e., something where a rescue is possible, it is probably best to avoid that right now. These rescue crews may have to quarantine afterwards and that makes it harder to help others. Once the cases start declining, use reasonable judgment in adding in higher risk activities.
Nice post, BFR.

Caltopo.com has been displaying a warning the last few days. It says to stay near home, don’t do anything too challenging, and stay away from other people. That makes sense. If you live in New York, you probably need to barricade yourself in your apartment. That seems like overkill for sparsely populated Nevada and the Eastern Sierra.

I’ve been skiing on Relay Peak and Mt. Houghton all season. I drive up, get my boots on, and start skinning up before any of the “snow bunnies” can get near me. Sometimes, I don’t see another person the whole day. I rarely see another person within 50 yards until I get back to the car. I throw my gear in the back and leave within 90 seconds. If I have a partner, we drive separate cars and remind each other that “if I can reach you with my ski pole, you’re too close.” We’re usually at least 30 feet apart.

I’ve also started working on the Tahoe Ogul List. I’ve passed a few people on wide trails near the trailhead. I saw four snowmobiles yesterday. I still haven’t seen another hiker or skier on the four peaks I’ve climbed. And I’m maintaining my sanity and fitness.

We have a friend who works in a dental office and keeps her horse at our place. If I get the virus, it’ll probably be because she used our bathroom when she came to visit her horse, or because my wife went grocery shopping. I don’t think It’ll be because I went backcountry skiing.
I'm pretty sure I was scolded on a Mt Whitney Facebook page by a "famous" Lone Pine resident for asking for clarification regarding an emergency closure order for developed campgrounds and recreational sites.
They're going crazy over there, Frank. Not sure who the LP resident is you're referring to.

On the FB page, the admin is telling everyone not to hike Whitney this year. I'm not giving up hope.
the last I heard, South Korea cancelled the rest of their pro basketball season on March 29. The NBA had been watching them, hoping to see good news, but an uptick in cases and concerns from doctors and South Korean Prime Minister Chung Sye-kyu, made them decide to cancel their season.
Posted By: ace Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 01:26 PM
How much meth do you have to do to become a famous Lone Pine resident?
Not meth, but in-breeding.
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 07:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Steve C
They're going crazy over there, Frank. Not sure who the LP resident is you're referring to.

On the FB page, the admin is telling everyone not to hike Whitney this year. I'm not giving up hope.


Really foolish for anyone to give out any advice like that that would apply for the rest of the year. Besides, hiking Whitney is not like running in the Boston Marathon. Most events are cancelled only a few months in advance, as things are evolving and changing rapidly, and it's not like all the news will be bad.

If the trailheads are closed and permits cancelled, then that's another matter. But otherwise, use caution and practice social distancing when possible and not take heed from random FB admins who think they are an authority for everyone else.
Posted By: Pete B Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 08:49 PM
All these comments seem to be focused on the danger from being in the great outdoor wilderness. Of course there is minimal risk being out on a Sierra trail.

However if, in order to get there you have to drive from some other area (LA, Bay Area, Sacramento,. Vegas, etc.) you will likely need to stop for gas or something to eat or use the restroom. Maybe your car will break down and you need a tow. Now you are potentially spreading your germs into the Eastern Sierra population and THAT is the concern of people in Lone Pine and Bishop and other communities. It is important to look at the big picture here.

Trying to nail down a date, today, of when things will open up again is like someone in February asking what day the switchbacks will be open.

The mountains will always be there, the people may not....
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 09:13 PM
Yes that is true, and all that can be mitigated by maintaining the same social distancing where ever they go. Using takeout at restaurants, paying at the pump at gas stations, etc.

A couple of things to keep in mind.

For one thing, people seem to be projected future circumstances in today's world. In 3-6 months, things will definitely be more relaxed, otherwise we're all screwed.

Also these tourist places depend on money coming in from elsewhere, and visitors in the future will not be so unwelcome later as they are now with the shelter in place laws.

The economy has to get back to semi-normal in the next few months, and traveling to remote areas isn't exactly one of those activities that has to discouraged as it's definitely low risk, whether on the road or not. Sure cars break down but how often?

The high risk will remain large gathering such as concerts, street races, sporting events, theaters, etc. This is not one of them.
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 09:38 PM
Having said that, I do not want to visit a place where I would be unwelcome. So I'll follow the advice of local and state authorities regarding that matter when the time comes for my trip in September.
Posted By: ace Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/03/20 09:47 PM
Anyone who is an “admin” is probably retarded IMO. Same goes for 99% of Facebook. I’ll listen to the reports coming out and do my own research.
Yes, I am a crusty, ill-tempered, old man, who has little tolerance for young kids with little real life experience who refuse to take the advice of their elders, but I know I'm right, ha ha.



Don't worry, Bruce. You will always be welcome in Bishop, and even over here on the left-coast. Just bring money...
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/04/20 01:32 AM
Thanks Bob, I hope so! I'd be visiting the Lone Pine area and staying at the Portal family campground, but I pass through Bishop each way every year and always drop some money there. wink
Not sure went I will return to Bishop, too much surf fishing to do over here in Los Osos.

Have fun in the Eastern Sierra!
I've been the camp host at Tuttle Creek BLM (still here, but CG closed) since November and yes, it seems like the perfect place (Lone Pine) to come, but the key to all of the fear & closures is about the folks that are asymptomatic (have the virus but no symptoms)... your sick and come here (feeling great) and you have bought fuel, supplies, etc for your "adventure", but now you've spread the virus in a small town with limited hospital resources... this goes for the entire Owens Valley.

This virus is 3X more infectious than the flu virus.

Please consider this... I had a camper here two weeks ago (before we closed) that sat by my campfire with his Asian girlfriend (they were from Seattle) and swore he had the virus in late December... really got my attention and I immediately got up and reminded him that the "experts" still don't know all the details of this virus.

As an example... lions & tigers in a New York zoo have been infected with this crazy virus (Washington Post news today)

I'm 68, in excellent health, but I don't want to find out how susceptible I am to this weird medical enigma !

Please respect the elderly everywhere and give it the 30 days recommended

IMHO
Regardless of what anyone here says or thinks, it’s safe to say that, if Covid-19 remains a threat, permits will not be issued.
I think CV19 will remain a threat until a vaccine is put to full use. That is probably at least a year away.
Posted By: Louie Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/06/20 11:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Baja Dave

Please respect the elderly everywhere and give it the 30 days recommended


Except it is not just 30 days. When everything first closed they said 2 weeks, now they are saying until the end of April which would be about 6 weeks. In reality this will be a thing until a vaccine is found or enough people get it and recover for it to stop spreading. Spanish flu took 3 years to stop spreading.
Lockdowns could also end if we find treatments for Covid-19 that can prevent bad outcomes. If Covid-19 could be reduced to something that is no more serious than a bad cold, we could end lockdowns. And this is something that could potentially come LONG before a vaccine.
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/07/20 02:28 PM
I don't think the lockdowns are going to last for more than a few months. After which time the restrictions will be slowly lifted, depending on geographic location. Essential for this of course will be the flattening of the curve, and we are already starting to see signs of this. Also essential will be widespread availability of masks and antibody testing, for contact tracing. Social distancing will remain the norm until there's a vaccine.

It's going to be a lot more complicated than a simple lockdown, regarding what non-essential activities are allowed to proceed and which aren't. But intuitively it would appear that restrictions on large, mass gathering will be the last to be lifted.

Speaking of which, I'm entered in the Boston marathon for Sept. 14th, which is a rescheduled date from April 20th. It so happens that my Whitney permit was awarded on that same day, so obviously I can't be at both. But at this point it seems pretty clear that the marathon will be cancelled and I just hope by then my permit (just for myself) will still be valid. That will determine whether I go or not. No point in worrying about it now, just hoping for things to get back to semi normal ASAP before the economy, especially tourism, gets too devastated to the point where many places in towns like Lone Pine go out of business because they can't survive and there's no more stimulus money.
Posted By: Anton Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/07/20 03:14 PM
Originally Posted By: ace
I don’t think you understand the concept of the NPS. It’s not for locals, it’s for the country, and the whole country contributes to its survival via Federal Taxes. In fact, they probably contribute a lot more to the parks than the Bishop poors who make $50k per year? So I’ll hike whenever the hell I want. Don’t act like hiking is any different than any street in the country. People passing by each other.


I don't think you understand the concept of the NPS either. When a park is closed, you cannot hike there legally. Break the rules and you will be escorted out and fined.
Besides, "the Bishop poors who make $50k per year" include restaurant/hotel workers, park rangers, police officers and SAR - people who work hard so everyone can enjoy the mountains. Have some fu..ing respect.
Ace, Anton, Bob, and others sometimes seem more interested in winning a point than getting the facts right or finding reasonable consensus. (BTW, is ace a reincarnation of Burchy?)

As I understand it, the USFS has closed all facilities except trailheads, and SEKI is closed, period. I’m sure the road to Whitney Portal is gaited at around 6,500’. If that is right, I can’t see why a local (or a tourist from L.A.) couldn’t legally park at 6,500’, hike up the road, and climb the East Face of Whitney to the summit. Getting back down without crossing into SEKI would be challenging, since the Final 400 is a few feet inside SEKI, but it’s possible. However, the chance of encountering a ranger on the summit, let alone one that would write you a ticket for downclimbing the Final 400, is zero.

I’m assuming that, since the trailheads are open, you can still get a self-issue permit. If not, I’m sure that there are young studs (both local and otherwise) that could do what I described in a day.

I understand the locals not wanting tourists spreading COVID-19 and overwhelming the tiny local hospitals or getting into trouble in the backcountry and overwhelming the SAR teams. The locals clearly want the tourists to stay home. What I don’t know is whether the locals are following the same rules and staying home themselves. Or are they playing outside as usual, now that the tourists are staying home. Remember, the rules apply to everybody, or they apply to nobody.

Legal or not, I think that traveling to Mammoth/Bishop/Lone Pine right now constitutes “being a dick”, and I won’t do it.
My friends in Bishop tell me it is like a ghost town just now. The locals are playing by the rules. Before the hostels closed, there were still out of town folks around, but with the USFS and BLM closures, most of the hikers are gone. It is still possible to get food to go in several cafes, and groceries at Vons, but walk in cafes are shut.

Inyo SAR and the CHP helo crew had a body recovery mission a few days ago in Death Valley. Someone fell @ 300' near Zabriskie Point. https://www.sierrawave.net/death-valley-body-recovery/





I read yesterday that Mammoth Lakes is operating a check point somewhere on the road entering town. If you're not a resident, you're not allowed to enter. At least one local case of COVID-19, IIRC. 17 bed hospital with two ICU beds. Anyone who is seriously injured or ill in Mammoth is evacuated by air, usually to LA. That's weather permitting. The local head of the health department and the chief MD for the hospital are urging people to stay away. They said the same thing pertains to the entire Owens Valley area: sparse population with scaled down infrastructure compared with a medium sized city.
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/07/20 09:16 PM
Nobody should be going anywhere that's not essential right now, as long as the SIP is in effect. Especially someone (or group) traveling to Owens valley from SoCal or the Bay Area. I don't think anyone here was thinking of that anyway (except maybe ace?). My work is a 10 minute drive, and I enjoy having it as one of the few places I can go to now. Being stuck at home 24/7 would not sit well with me at all (especially if I lived in one of the areas where they ban outdoor exercise).
https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/03/29/...-to-public/amp/


"The order includes campgrounds, day-use areas, and picnic areas, but not trailheads as its intent is to allow visitors continued access to lands for hiking and walking"

Buy your needs before you get here and plan on day trips as Alabama Hills are completely shut-down to all traffic and any overnight camping... if you plan to hike elsewhere in the Owens Valley I'm not sure about overnight camping.
A reminder: do not participate in risky outdoor recreation at this time due to emergency medical care being prioritized by COVID-19 patients and limited rescue resources.
Posted By: Louie Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/08/20 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: bobpickering
I understand the locals not wanting tourists spreading COVID-19 and overwhelming the tiny local hospitals


I would think that like everything else, the hospitals in an area is proportional to the population. That is the hospital beds to population ratio is roughly the same around Bishop as it is around Los Angles.
Posted By: Louie Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/08/20 03:33 AM
Originally Posted By: SoCal Jim
I read yesterday that Mammoth Lakes is operating a check point somewhere on the road entering town. If you're not a resident, you're not allowed to enter.


I would question whether that is actually happening, and it's legality if it is. Non-resident are not allowed to enter and risk infecting residents, but residents are free to leave and infect people elsewhere? How could that possibly be justified?
I read this yesterday in the New York Times, California Today section. NYT isn't perfect, but they do kind of set the standard for journalism (unless you're into the fake news thing, but let's not go there). I just read it again and the story says the town is awaiting state approval. I agree with questions about the legality of many orders coming from governments. There's probably a wide variety in validity of legal do's and don'ts depending on powers granted by public health emergency declarations. And I'd guess not all officials are clear on what constitutes a legal public health directive, depending on the governmental entity. I'll leave all that to the lawyers. But I do think that if someone is doing something as stupid as participating in a social gathering as is still happening occasionally and receives a citation for it, the judge is likely to lean toward upholding public health and safety declarations, especially under current circumstances.
Posted By: dbd Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/08/20 05:05 AM
Originally Posted By: Louie
Originally Posted By: SoCal Jim
I read yesterday that Mammoth Lakes is operating a check point somewhere on the road entering town. If you're not a resident, you're not allowed to enter.


I would question whether that is actually happening, and it's legality if it is. Non-resident are not allowed to enter and risk infecting residents, but residents are free to leave and infect people elsewhere? How could that possibly be justified?


As is usually the case these days, the news reports and the analyses of them are overly simplified.

Mammoth is no longer offering guest services so they do not need guests, maids and bartenders to come from out of town. They still need plumbers and electricians and other products and services that require travel.

It is still everyone's responsibility to try to avoid passing virus in any direction.

Dale B Dalrymple
Posted By: bruce Re: Corona Virus CV19: To hike or not to hike - 04/08/20 03:05 PM
Good news for California residents as governor Newsom has procured a massive supply of masks, mostly N95s, for the state. 200 million per month for 5 months. That's a billion masks and certainly enough for everyone. If they make it mandatory to wear a real mask (not just cloth face covering) whenever you visit a grocery store or ride public transportation, then that will go a long way in stopping the spread.
I'm lucky to still be working (from home) and being paid. And virus free (as far as I know).

Not being able to hike much is a problem, but I am getting bike rides and walks in around the neighborhood (I'm getting used to knowing where to go where I Don't run into too many people).

With the nice weather this weekend and still some nice snow coverage in Yosemite around Badger pass, I might have been headed there this weekend for some late winter backpacking, but naturally that is off the table now.

I'm probably going to bike to Mt Diablo and then do a long hike there. Since I'm not driving, it's allowed as long as I keep my distance from others.

It will depend on how things are in July and beyond, but I'm still planning my JMT trek for this summer. Most of the planning can be applied to next year, if need be.

I actually have a Glacier Point to Whitney permit for mid July and just landed a Happy Isles to Whitney permit in mid September in the lottery. That is a bit late and not what I was aiming for, but this year things might not be fully open to allow a JMT trek until that late. Mid August would be a NOBO from Cottonwood Pass as the third choice.


What kind of sucks for next year is I was planning on going to Japan and doing some hiking in the Japan Alps. The kicker: I didn't want to go this year due to the Olympics.

So the virus has already disrupted two years of my plans.

Hopefully I can salvage some of my plans for this year once the virus is under some kind of control.

But, yeah, if the local towns don't want me there, I'll stay away.
Here is a plea from Mono County to visitors:

https://webapps.mono.ca.gov/COVIDDocs//P...%20Visitors.pdf

Highway 203 into Mammoth Lakes is open with chain requirements. There has been a lot of heavy snow.

As we can see from the Mono County press release, it is still possible to enter Mammoth Lakes, but it is not encouraged. However, this situation might change as time goes on.

I'm not posting this in order to score posting points, but to attempt to point out the seriousness of the situation.
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