Mt Whitney Zone
Posted By: Bob West Sheep Fire - 09/14/10 12:13 PM
For those of you concerned about the Sheep Fire and possible related trail closures, here is the Inciweb site:

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/2059/

The fire is being kept south of the Kings River. Lots of smoke, but no trail closures so far.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Sheep Fire - 09/14/10 04:05 PM
Thanks for posting the link, Bob. I have seen smoke from the Sheep Fire in the Williamson webcam occasionally.
Posted By: Bob West Re: Sheep Fire - 09/14/10 08:15 PM
It was very smoky yesterday, over here in Bishop. Looks like it might burn until the first rain or snow.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Sheep Fire - 09/14/10 08:55 PM
Web cam shows smoke blowing over the Williamson area right now.
Posted By: dmatt Re: Sheep Fire - 09/15/10 07:44 PM
So my TEOM here at Fort Independence, at 6 am this morning, measured an unhealthy PM-10 reading of 80.18 ug/m3. That unhealthy measurement increased to 90.17 ug/m3 by 10 am this morning.

dmatt
Posted By: wazzu Re: Sheep Fire - 09/15/10 08:19 PM
dmatt,
any indication how long the unhealthy air levels will last? Any strong winds comming soon to blow it another direction?
Posted By: dmatt Re: Sheep Fire - 09/15/10 08:37 PM
The Sheep fire is being left to burn itself "out" by the Forest Service, despite the large amounts of unhealthy air moving over the Crest into the Owens Valley, which has a good sized population base. So, it could burn until the first major storm or two passes over, say November. The air currents are more difficult to predict, so it's hard to say about how long the bad air will last. But one thing is for sure it will be here for a while.

dmatt
Posted By: Steve C Re: Sheep Fire - 09/15/10 08:44 PM
And this question: Is the increased smoke due to a big flare-up of the fire, or a change in the weather pattern?
Posted By: dmatt Re: Sheep Fire - 09/15/10 10:11 PM
Change in the winds.
Posted By: Ken Re: Sheep Fire - 09/16/10 05:38 AM
And the best part of this fire, is that this is the exact area where I was with a trailcrew for 10 days in July, clearing a trail and cutting >500 trees. At least half of the trail we'd rehabed is now burned, and the fire is slowly moving over the rest. At least we cut lots of firewood to feed the fire.
<sigh>
Posted By: Steve C Re: Sheep Fire - 09/16/10 05:40 AM
And probably another 500 downed trees. Or in the next few years they will rot and fall.

I recall a burned area on the JMT in Kings Canyon -- over Bishop pass. There were dozens of downed trees across the trail. And the fire had burned several years before.
Posted By: Bee Re: Sheep Fire - 09/16/10 06:58 AM
I know that this is part of the "new-school" of forest management -- let the fire burn itself out -- but I still find it very distressing.

There are areas in my neck of the woods that are STILL barren after 20yrs of "recovery" (excepting, of course, that prickly version of Manzanita that seems to grow over night!)
Posted By: Ken Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 02:41 AM
Bee, what you describe as the "new" school of forest management is anything but. It is how the forest managed itself for millenia, until the last hundred years, when we developed the technology and the desire to "overcome" natural processes. The result is huge accumulations of fuel that create unbelievably hot and large fires, that are absolutely unstoppable.

This reminds me of a show I heard on radio a week or so ago, about a book "The Big Burn", by Timothy Egan. It tells the dramatic story of the largest forest fire in American history, in 1910. That first in the Northwestern United States consumed three million acres in two days. It burned through eastern Washington, northern Idaho and western Montana, creating panicked evacuations.

That is the size of Connecticut, in TWO days. While telling the story of the fire, Egan's book tells the political story of how the fire paradoxically saved the national forests and changed fire policy.

By comparison, the Station Fire near LA last year, the largest in LA history, was 161,000 acres, and took TWO MONTHS to burn. lets say that again: 3 million acres in 2 days.

you can either hear the story, or read it here:

The Big Burn
Posted By: Bee Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 03:26 AM
I heard that very same program on NPR last week (I think)ANyone who has not listened to it should definitely take the time.

I went skiing with a ranger in yosemite, and he was explaining that the Native American population of the Yosemite Valley had a very sophisticated burn cycle that allowed the valley floor to remain manageable. He also said that there was still large amounts of infighting about whether or not to continue with managed burns.
Posted By: Ken Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 04:25 AM
That's true about the infighting. Generally, the "recreation" and "resource" people want to use natural fire as a management tool. Generally, the fire people want to put everything out.

There is quite a tension between the two.
Posted By: Bee Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 04:31 AM
Ken,

Do you know if there has always been the dense amount of Manzanita as there now is in some areas that have burned in Yosemite? It seems that even in the short time that I have been treeking through the woods, the Manzanita seems to be taking over the forest floor. In some areas, it is so dense that there is no sunny spots on the ground to allow baby trees to grow.
Posted By: Bob R Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 01:58 PM
Friends and I went up the Kearsarge Pass trail yesterday, in hopes of climbing Mt. Gould. When we left Onion Valley, we could tell the air wasn't perfectly clear, but the casual out-of-town visitor probably wouldn't have noticed. But the higher we got, the worse it got, and it was one of the reasons we turned around at Kearsarge Pass.

We encountered several people coming out who had been at Sixty Lakes and Rae Lakes, and they reported a lot of smoke the last ?? days.

There were several parties who, like us, also started up from Onion Valley, and had planned to camp or pass through those areas. They turned back at the pass also.

On the trail, we could just make out the form of University Peak, on the south. And from the pass, you could barely see the outline of the Kearsarge Pinnacles, and nothing beyond. Our eyes were stinging until we got back close to Onion Valley.

Descending, we encountered one group of about eight going up who were planning to go to Mt. Whitney in the next six days. I told them it was likely it would clear for them the next day, after they'd gotten a few miles south of Vidette Meadow. This was my guess based on the wind currents, and observation of the general smoke behavior.

We met SEKI Ranger George Durkee and his wife Paige coming out. George is working Charlotte Lake this summer. I'd communicated with George quite a few times over the past ten years, but this was the first time we'd met in person.

I'll post trip report pictures later.
Posted By: Rod Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 04:06 PM
Wow Bob I don't know why but I would have assumed that you and George got together regularly for beers and stories.I am surprised that this is your first meeting. Noticed I used the word ass-u-me and we all know what that means...lol
Posted By: Ken Re: Sheep Fire - 09/18/10 05:03 PM
I can't claim expertise as a forest botanist for yos, but my impression is that manzanita is a first regrower after fires, so has a tendency to fill in spaces. Because it grows fast, it fills up blank spaces.

My understanding is that this is why it is important for there to be fairly frequent fires, to clear this brush. One, so that there is bare soil for tree seeds to find and sprout, two, so that there is not the build-up of dead manzanita, which is heavily laden with oil and burns intensely (even explosively)-these build ups can burn down trees that are fire-resistant like sequoias, and three, so that the trees that require fire to open their cones, have a chance to reproduce. I think sequoias require fire.
Posted By: Steve C Re: Sheep Fire - 09/19/10 06:55 AM
It seems to me manzanita on some slopes is a real mess. I know there are some areas (above Bass Lake over on the west side) where the stuff is over 8 feet tall, and so thick you can't get through it.

And it is growing in an area (Central Camp) where I read some history.... Around 1920, a group of people rode horseback right into the Central Camp area. There is NO way one could ride there now (without using the access roads) due to all the manzanita. They clear-cut the area, and on the lower slopes, the manzanita took over.

Before the logging, I am assuming the area was burned regularly, because the sugar pine grew to 3 and 4-foot diameter trees, and the fires keep the undergrowth down (You can still see the old logged stumps in places.) I believe I read (or heard) that the Native Americans would set fires every fall as they moved to lower ground.
Posted By: RoguePhotonic Re: Sheep Fire - 09/21/10 08:25 AM
This fire was disgusting as I dropped into Deadman Canyon, the smoke rolled in like a fog all around and hurt my throat, all my views in Sugarloaf Valley was also like walking in the fog.

Good stuff =/
Posted By: wazzu Re: Sheep Fire - 10/06/10 01:37 AM
Bump....so with the change in the weather, is the fire out?
No more smoke?
Posted By: Ken Re: Sheep Fire - 10/06/10 03:42 AM
Effectively.

sheep fire info
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