Yes, this is generally a non-political forum, and Monumentally Stupid does not automatically disqualify a pol, but this is beyond the pale. Better to vote for a hantamouse than this kind of asshattery. Stupid is stupid.

agreed,

but he might have gotten his errant medical advice/ pseudoscience from the kind of deteriorating quality we are seeing now, and will see more of in the future

I had to look up that asshattery word. It fits.

His party put him on the Science and Technology Committee. Have read that somewhere between 5 and 12% of rapes result in pregnancy. Maybe he didn't get the memo.

I tried to email him with the following message:

"Your recent statements make me wonder as to what qualifications you possess to be on the Science & Technology Committee.

Just another scientist with an inquiring mind.

Dave."

But I'm not in Missouri, so I can't send it.

Frankly, I think that Akin should go hang out with Whoopi Goldberg who excused Roman Polanski's drugging and rape of a 13 year old girl as not being "rape-rape".

Or all of the Hollywood celebrities like Harrison Ford, Woody Allen, Jonathen Demme, John Landis, Debra Winger, Harvey Weinstein, etc....who came out in support of Roman Polanski.

Akin is an idiot. But there is no shortage of idiots on either side of the political aisle.

I am from there...but I don't claim it as my home state...never did.

Ever wonder why all the trees in all the 8 states that surround Missouri lean towards Missouri? Yes, eight states surround the Sho-Me.

Akins is no idiot.

He was voicing the official opinion of the Republican party.

The Plank Committee for the Repub Convention TODAY voted on and confirmed the position that Akins stated.

As Rush apparently said, the Repubs should stand by their man, and their beliefs.

yes, Akin is an idiot. The idea that a woman who is forcibly raped cannot get pregnant is ignorant and there is plenty of evidence to contradict it.

That is not the opinion of any political party. It is the opinion of an idiot.

It's True. We Doctors Have Been Giving Republican Congressmen False Information As A Joke

by Jon Bershad | 11:57 am, August 20th, 2012

The following is a transcript of comments made to me this morning by Dr. Leon Jensen when asked about his connection to Rep. Todd Akin:

Ok, ok, ok! You got us!…one minute. I'm sorry. I just can't stop…laughing. Oh, God, seriously, my stomach hurts so damn bad…Can someone get me a water or something? … Ok, just let me catch my breath … Alright. Here we are. Ok, I'm good.

But, yes, it's true. We doctors have been giving Republican Congressmen false information as a joke. We've been doing it for years and it's been hilarious.

I knew we'd gone too far with that Akin guy. It's just, you've got to keep heightening the joke, y'know? See what you can get away with.

So when Akin comes in to the hospital lounge and he's all, "I need a reason to make rape abortions illegal," my buddy Kurt (he's an oncologist) looks at me and he goes, "Dude, I can totally make this guy think ladies have duck vaginas." And I'm like, "Kurt, don't do it!" But you guys know Kurt! And Akin totally bought it hook line and sinker! That guy is on the Science Committee or whatever and he thinks human ladies have special duck vaginas!

It's not just us though! We didn't even do it first! Scientists have been lying to Republicans as a prank for even longer!

It all started like a decade ago or something when this Republican kept going up to all these scientists and being like, "At least one of you has to think that Global Warming isn't manmade!" And all the scientists kept having to say, "No, dude! We've all done tests!" But this guy just kept coming back (usually with his like oil company friends who, let me tell you, are just the worst) so, eventually, one of the scientists just goes, "You know what, I don't believe in Global Warming. It's inconclusive and stuff."

And that was going to be it, y'know? It was just going to be that one guy. But then Republicans started going on TV and saying really mean stuff about scientists for no reason and so all the friends of the first scientist were like, "Screw it. I want to lie to them too." And then my doctor friends and I joined in and, well, it has been one of the funniest things I've ever been a part of.

I know it's mean but these guys are just sooooooo gullible!

It's a total bummer that Akin guy blew our cover now because we had so much ridiculous stuff coming up! My friend, Kayla totally got this one Republican to start drafting a nationwide Cootie Shot Initiative. I know about that one because I was the one who actually told the lie (these Republicans still don't believe in lady doctors) and it was so hard to keep a straight face. Hilarious!

But that's nothing compared to what the scientists are doing! Oh, man! I know about this group of scientists, they were all having a science party, when these Republican Senators came in looking for science-y reasons to make video games illegal. The scientists were all watching the Jean-Claude Van Damme movie Timecop and they were a little drunk so they start telling the Republicans that it wasn't a movie and that their TV was actually a portal into the future. I don't want to give those guys away but just know that when a giant billion dollar Republican plan to prevent time-travelling terrorism is revealed, it's totally our fault.

God, that was funny. Whew. Thanks for the water. I've got to go anyway, I'm supposed to go on cable news in an hour.

Oh, crap! I hope they don't read this column and cancel my appearance! I've been lying to those guys for a decade!

Perhaps I'm confused about the political affiliation of these folks.

Plus, Akins is not just "some guy". He is a sitting CONGRESSMAN. But he is not just a congressman, he has been elevated to be the CHAIR of the Science and Technology Committee. This is who *one of the political parties* looks to for guidance and expertise on such issues.

you stated:
He was voicing the official opinion of the Republican party.

The Plank Committee for the Repub Convention TODAY voted on and confirmed the position that Akins stated.

Perhaps you can show me where in the Republican platform it says that women cannot get pregnant when they are forcibly raped. Perhaps I was unclear about which statement was idiotic....no, no, I wasn't. I was very clear.

Certainly Akin has views that are common to the republican party platform. Many Republicans and Democrats have the view that a individual human existence happens some time before birth. Some believe at conception, some believe after the first trimester, some believe after the second trimester. It's a pretty gray area and not every republican believes in or agrees with every plank in the party platform. Nor do they believe everything that every republican politician believes. Just like most democrats don't believe that Guam is going to tip over and capsize because there are too many people on it, like Democrat Representative Hank Johnson suggests
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxF4AmsgaYE

Plus, Akins is not just "some guy". He is a sitting CONGRESSMAN. But he is not just a congressman, he has been elevated to be the CHAIR of the Science and Technology Committee. This is who *one of the political parties* looks to for guidance and expertise on such issues.

it's kinda like having Barney Frank as the Finance Committee Chairman.

Or Maxine Waters as the ranking member of the Finance sub-committee on Capital Markets and GSEs.

And guess what, one can have views that are not anti-abortion, but are against federally funded abortions and also against forcing organizations who are against abortion to fund abortions. I happen to be one of those people. And that was what Akin was talking about when he made his boneheaded comment.

there'd be a whole lot more pro-choice support from republicans and libertarians if there wasn't an expectation for others to foot the bill. You want people to keep their politics off your bodies, don't expect them to pay your bills.

Not if you are a real Republican. Just ask them.



On this, you are truly delusional. If you consider yourself a repub, which you stated that you are, don't take on the right to speak for libertarians, which you are NOT.

I know many devout people who sincerely believe in their positions against abortion. To put them down as being able to be "bought off" by redefining it as a money issue, is simply an insult to their integrity.

The fact is, it is NOT an economic issue. Your preferred alternative, birth, is FAR FAR FAR more expensive FOR YOU. Always has been, always will be.

I find it bizarre that anyone would want to have legal prohibitions on medical procedures, based upon not wanting to pay for it selectively. Especially when it is men who want to impose upon women.

CS Monitor

"Republicans in Tampa, Fla., are drafting a platform provision that calls for a "human life amendment" to the Constitution: a ban on abortion

The abortion plank "will affirm our view and support for the right to life" that has long been part of the Republican platform, Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) of Virginia, chairman of the platform committee, told Bloomberg News.

The platform does not include exceptions"

His quote:



I am SO GLAD that you have clarified that the ONLY idiotic thing in the statement had to do with the FALSE ASSERTION that doctors told him how female biology works. And that NOTHING else in his position is extreme or outside the mainstream of Repub positions.

NO exceptions for rape, incest, or life of the mother.

I also like his, and Ryan's support for personhood amendments, that makes virtually all doctors in the last 50 years defined as murderers. Certainly makes it easier than shooting us.

Nice work.

Goodnight Ken

"It's not the politicians that suck..... it's the public"..... George Carlin


Garbage in Garbage Out

I've got this real moron thing I do, it's called "thinking". And I'm not a very good American because I form my own opinions.
George Carlin

IMHO.... the reason this country is so screwed up, and it is....is because too many people stick to their ideologies, instead of being individuals and and searching for idealism. Prime examples above. Dems suck, Repubs suck.... geeez, and those are arguments from two guys I respect and are very intelligent.
When it comes down to it, the politicians from both major parties throw as much crap out there to make sure we keep our mind off the real issues..... and they all leave office rich. Yes, both Dems and Repubs.
God help us.

So, I heard that it snowed up on Whitney this past week.....

Yea..... funny, huh?
timing is everything.....

Here is a thoughtful read.

Surrogate

History

Ken,

I'm not a Latin scholar by no means but if I'm not mistaken we cannot pass any ex post facto laws in this country. Therefore, the doctors being murderers for the last 50 years thingy does not apply.

Sorry to get in the way of a good rant.

We aren't talking about legal issues, we are talking about viewpoints. According to the viewpoints of some fundamentalists, virtually all doctors are mass murderers (their words), and so it is justifiable to terminate their lives to stop them. This would be for prescribing, for example, birth control pills.

The doctors who have been killed for performing legal medical procedures are just as dead, whatever the legal (and applicable latin) might say.

I must say Ken, you are the absolute best at throwing up straw men and knocking them down. Bravo.

As they say, where you stand, depends upon where you sit.

Your perspective might be different with a target upon your back.

I had a discussion with my, lets say rightish, brother some time back. He kept using "murder" until I informed him that murder is the "unlawful" taking of a human life by another human,
and since abortion is legal in this country, he needed to stop using the word "murder". He stopped. Now he just uses "killing".

Some fundamentalists. Gee whiz, who cares. Some liberals are big on infanticide...say like liberal ethicist Peter Singer and our President, if his vote while in the Illinois legislature means anything, the latter isn't an issue because the press in this country tilts decidedly left...see Arthur Brisbane in the NYT this past weekend. A majority of those who do not believe abortion should be legal do not believe doctors to be murderers. Most religious people and all mainline churches denounce those who murder doctors. The last I looked, there is a commandment...Thou shall not murder. That applies to doctors who preform abortions the last time I checked the catechism.

This is all part of ginned up issue on part of the Obama Campaign to secure one of its base components...young single women...married women with children vote Republican.

Akin has been a nice narcissistic punching bag for both right and left.

Again, sorry to get in the way of a good rant.

An entertaining way to close a rant that includes the myth of the liberal media.

There are two major issues that have gotten quite convoluted on this thread.

One is Akin's view that women can't get pregnant from being forcibly raped. Which is just downright stupid.

The other issue is abortion. And both sides have merit. And it is a legitimate legal and constitutional issue. If a fetus is an individual human life, then it is morally wrong to kill it and it is entitled to constitutional protection.

If it is not an individual human life, then there really isn't any moral issue and clearly women have the right to do whatever they want with whatever parasitic amorphous mass of cells happens to be in their body.

There are some people who believe that the individual human life begins at conception. There are some people who believe that it isn't an individual human life until it has breached the womb. I personally think that both ends of the spectrum are wrong. But I can't prove my point of view any more than anybody else can prove theirs.

But if somebody believes that individual human life begins at conception, that an embryo is a person, can they really be blamed for wanting to protect that life in the same way anybody would want to protect a baby, child or whatever living human.

And if someone doesn't believe that the embryo or fetus is an individual human life, can they be blamed for wanting to fight for the rights of the woman who we know is a "person"?

Both sides have merit.

Oh, and I registered as a Libertarian in 1983. I registered as a Republican in April 2012.

What day will the first storm hit this year that will leave a foot of snow at trail camp?

I say Nov 3

tdtz,

I have got to support you. You are fighting an uphill battle on this board.

I remember not too long ago how I got shot down for making a small reference to something political and how the entire thread disappeared from this board. I promised Steve C. I would never mention a political reference again....well Steve C....I'm breaking my promise...I've been watching these men fight over this subject for too long. I was a Democrat for years. I am a registered Republican now ...effective in 2007.

The pill was a big deal when I was in my teens because everyone wanted to have tons of sex without any obligations to their partner or to a child. If a child was conceived it was all too easy to abort. I never aborted but I never conceived either because I was always being so careful not to get pregnant until I found Mr. Just Right. I finally found him and I even thought I was pregnant at one time, but it turned out to not be so. Children are so precious. I don't know why anyone would want to abort something so precious just fora the sake of their lifestyle. If someone has a certain lifestyle they want to live without children then they should be careful and take measures to prevent pregnancy. I think people need to grow up and take responsibilty for their lives and for any lives they create. We are all acting like a bunch of spoiled brats always trying to have everything "our way".

Wazzu, when I saw your name on this thread I was so proud of you. I wanted to step in so many times but I was too chicken to take on all these guys after they put me down for being a Redie in a Blue State.

I love the Whitney Zone and everyone on the Whitney Zone.

Peace Not War

Okay, I will also weigh in on behalf of Steve and in lesser cases, myself. We stand back and try to allow free based conversations to flourish, but, when it starts to get personal, the dilemma sets in. Due to philosophical conversations that ran amuck in the past, there are people two years later who will still not speak to each other (as they pass on the trail). The disagreements/hurt runs deep. In some cases, the damage is permanent, and potential friendships are destroyed before they ever set seed. I hate to see an interruption in the synergy of the board, and hopefully folks remember that whenever you tread into the Gun Control, Capital Punishment, Abortion territory, there is going to be a whole lot of emotion and a lesser amount of fact to support the various sides of the arguments.

PS I would really like to see an early snow like in Oct 2, 2010, because that would indicate a potentially good year for the watershed.

I think we have seen enough of everyone's personal views on the several topics here. Thank you Bee for pointing out how political discussions can turn otherwise good friends into enemies.

Just reading the opinions in this thread make me uneasy. I have strong opinions in this area, too, but there is no way I will write them here.

So at this point, I'm locking this thread. Let it fade away as another lesson.