I am thinking that I am going to need a 4-season tent....either one or two man.

If anyone has one they are looking to sell....let me know.

I'm pondering if I need to get another bag. Mine is a +15. Then again, perhaps a liner is all that I need.

Then again, much of the snow will probably be melted by next week and the 3 season tent will be enough....

What are the night time lows where you expect to camp, and how do you sleep? I tend to sleep a little cold. I usually need a bag that's rated 5 to 10 degrees warmer than the actual low. For example if it's going to be 40 out, I want a bag that is rated at 30 to 35 degrees.

As far as extending the rating, I've gone down below my normal requirements by wearing the following to bed:
a) down sweater
b) fleece hat
c) long john bottom
d) fleece gloves
e) double socks
f) turtle neck

I suppose a liner would help too.

HJ

Hey Jim,
plans are still a little nebulous. But thinking a night at outpost and then a night at trail camp. I tend to sleep a little bit warm.

It's looking like next week is going to warm up a bit. I think I'll be good in my +15. I'll keep the extra clothing on hand to extend the temperature range.

Probably going to focus on the tent for now...and perhaps some winterish clothing.

Sounds good. I had a 4 season tent up at Trail Camp a few years ago in October. We were getting flurries but never got dumped on. I slept in a 0F bag. I was actually too warm, but my buddy Roger slept in a 20F bag and was WAY cold. His was a rental so dunno if it might not have really been in good condition. Overnight lows were around the low teens, and it was windy.

HJ

I slept in a 4 season tent last april, -20F bag - had to unzip it several times to cool down, t-shirt only.

didn't look that warm oustside in the morning



One September, I spent the night at trail camp in a 3-season tent and 25F bag - one of my coldest nights in the mountains ever. Bag was covered with ice and the down had more or less collapsed.

Mousie was there and he wasn't too happy with my gear choices!



One day I'll get a bag that's in between these two - something like a 0F bag which would be ideal for anything but the worst weather up there.

I found a North Face Assault 2 on ebay that I am likely going to bid on. I'm thinking that a four season tent will be a better investment for my first winter trip. As HJ said, I can always put some warm clothing on to help the bag out. I have a nice Exped Synmat inflatable pad as well as another thin inflatable.

so far I have been hiking alone....perhaps it's time for a hiking buddy to join me.

Hiking buddies make it all worth while

a 4 season tent isn't really warmer than a 3 season, but it will withstand winds and snow loads better. It actually doesn't breath as well as a 3-season unless you open up all the vents and let the cold are move through. Still, in bad conditions, I'd always bring the 4 season tent. It's just so much nicer when it's rough out there. Won't flap in the wind, even at 50mph speeds.

what made a huge difference in keeping me warm is the condiut shell on the -20F, which kept my breath from soaking the top of the bag's fabric with condensation or ice that slowly came through the warmer sleeping bag reducing the insulation to a thin layer of wet down. Also no worries rolling into something wet inside the tent when the bag just sheds the moisture. Just stuffing these things back into a pack is much harder, since the fabric doesn't breathe as well as the normal nylon you get.

forgot to post this link to a big 4-season tent review

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews

one of the best I found during my 4-season tent search, not just your usual thumbs up because they got a free tent.

that is a great review! The side by side format really helps the comparison.

Thank you very much for posting that.

Hey, so is that a JB Helios stove? How do you like it? How well does it handle the cold? Is the windscreen any good?

HJ

Yup, Helios. It's pretty efficient - almost as efficient as my Jetboil Sol, but it also works in the cold with the upside down canister. The windscreen is functional but too heavy for me to bring again. I don't like the button attachment to the base, which is hard to do in the cold with gloves, but on the other hand, it does sit in the right place once you attach it that way. In summer, I would not bring the screen to save some weight.

I like the size of the pot for snow melting and 3-person hiking (with my kids). Compared to my old setup of Snow Peak stove with MontBell titanium pot, it is efficent enough that the extra couple of ounces you carry will be made up by fuel savings after day 3 on any of my typical summer trips. When using more fuel in the cold it is absolutely the way to go.

The thing to know is that once you use the canister upside down, the adjustment of the flame gets much less repsonsive, plus never start the thing with the canister upside down (learned it with a nice puddle of burning propane - fun stuff as long as you're not doing that inside the tent :-))

Another issue, but more on a funny note: On windy days like the one we had before that picture was taken, the lid likes to catch big air and fly off. I had to descend a few hundred feet to the frozen lake below to retrieve it with crampons and ice axe. It's a perfect frisbee!

see also my comments in this thread
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthreads.php/topics/11329/Stoves#Post11329