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#13639 - 05/04/11 10:42 PM What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary!
NJ hiker Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Northern NJ
Several folks have been advising never to glissade from Trail Crest. Now with this video I see why: The slope goes left towards the rocks and this guy was going pretty fast and had to use his ice axe to slow down in perfect conditions! This video gave me the willies just watching it. At one point he yells 'can't stop now if I wanted to!' --if it had been icier....

Glissading down from Trail Crest


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#13640 - 05/05/11 12:59 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
Wayne Offline
deceased

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Charlotte, NC
Thanks for posting the video. I enjoyed it, and I love glissading safely. The glissader, in my opinion, did do it safely and was in no danger. The way he did it is fun and exhilirating--the way it should be. He slid down an existing glissade track, that even though it appeared to at first head right into the rocks in the distance, it skirted to the viewer's right. He obviously knew how to use his ice axe to control his slide and stopped when he felt he needed to.

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#13643 - 05/05/11 03:41 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Wayne]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 578
Loc: Manchester, NH
I'm with Wayne. Was a little concerned at first when I saw the slope was in shadow - might have re-frozen - but quickly could see see the slushy snow in front of his boots. He stayed well clear of the big boulders on the left about mid-way thru the glissade. Using an existing track is usually faster, as well as safer, provided the track follows the direction you wish to go.

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#13644 - 05/05/11 03:47 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: KevinR]
NJ hiker Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Northern NJ
Whew - thanks for those comments. I have glissaded on Mt Lassen, but in full May sunshine and not on a fifty degree slope like that! The first person who made the track was very brave, though wink

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#13658 - 05/05/11 02:00 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
The last time I glissaded a rock sticking out of the snow smacked me in the heel and it was sore for a week. Got to watch out for what is ahead.
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#13660 - 05/05/11 02:15 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 366
Loc: Wildomar
I like to hike down what I hike up. When I get around to doing Cactus to Clouds I'll take the trail down, not the tram.

Last time I glissaded I was six , my sled was broke and the hill was smaller.

I'm sure it's tons of fun and there are places to safely do it, but they have pulled multiple bodies out of that area.

Call me a wuss, call me a party pooper, but I'll walk down thanks. smile.................................DUG

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#13661 - 05/05/11 02:37 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: DUG]
2600fromatari Offline


Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 452
Loc: San Diego
DUG, if you can take the trail down after a dayhike of Skyline, you are a man's man. Holy cow...

I'm thinking about it, but am waiting for the weather to cool down first.

Originally Posted By: DUG
I like to hike down what I hike up. When I get around to doing Cactus to Clouds I'll take the trail down, not the tram.

Last time I glissaded I was six , my sled was broke and the hill was smaller.

I'm sure it's tons of fun and there are places to safely do it, but they have pulled multiple bodies out of that area.

Call me a wuss, call me a party pooper, but I'll walk down thanks. smile.................................DUG

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#13663 - 05/05/11 03:13 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: 2600fromatari]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 366
Loc: Wildomar
I've done a couple others with about the same gain and mileage. I was penciled in to take my son last year but a scout event got in the way. The tram would have most likely been his exit point, but I had planned on doing it all. Maybe this year...................................DUG

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#13664 - 05/05/11 03:13 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: DUG]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 578
Loc: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted By: DUG
...When I get around to doing Cactus to Clouds I'll take the trail down, not the tram.

Call me a wuss, call me a party pooper, but I'll walk down thanks. smile.................................DUG


Be sure to post at TH.

(Will be looking for the part that says "if I ever make a stupid boast like that again, please have my head examined") smile


Edited by KevinR (05/05/11 03:14 PM)

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#13678 - 05/05/11 04:22 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: KevinR]
quillansculpture Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 552
Loc: Murrieta, CA
That video was Bob Rockwells. I have a pretty good idea that he knows how to glissade......
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#13688 - 05/05/11 04:43 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: KevinR]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 366
Loc: Wildomar
Stupid boast? Many people hike up AND down. That was the plan for the group hike I was penciled in for. Up AND down. The group changed the date for better conditions and it conflicted with a scout event. We already had plans for the boy to bail at the tram if I wasn't 110% sure he had it in him.

I don't know the C2C2C mileage, but I've day hiked Forester Pass for Roads End many times - 42 miles 8,000 feet of gain.

I did Onion Valley to Roads End AND back as a day hike. That's some pretty good elevation for a day AND the hard part is getting back. That's like 44 miles or so IIRC.

So when I do try C2C2C I will hike up and then back down as I always do, unless I have a medical emergency. You'll NEVER see me on a tram to get up or down a mountain.

To each his own, your mileage may vary, etc.................DUG

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#13695 - 05/05/11 05:34 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: DUG]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 578
Loc: Manchester, NH
Well, I guess you told me, .........DUG!

I'm sure you're an inspiration and all-round hiking legend, but in case you didn't notice - there's a tradition on many hiking BB's to point out when a hike may be "over-the-top". As someone familiar with the C2C hike, and aware that a few people down-climb it, doing so is generally considered hazardous unless done in the early spring/late fall due to heat and exposure. In was in that spirit I tried to inject some humor, quite unaware was I of your extreme prowess.

I won't make that same error again. My apologies if you were insulted.




You're truly an inspiration to us all. My apologies for suggesting that descending 8,000' into

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#13699 - 05/05/11 07:27 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: DUG]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Originally Posted By: KevinR
Well, I guess you told me, .........DUG!

I'm sure you're an inspiration and all-round hiking legend..., quite unaware was I of your extreme prowess....

I won't make that same error again. My apologies if you were insulted....

You're truly an inspiration to us all. My apologies for suggesting that descending 8,000' into


Really KevinR? Completely necessary? Do you even know DUG? Know any of his stories? Read any of his TR's? Have any inkling as to his abilities? Did you check with anyone before throwing the BS flag at him?

Apparently not or you wouldn't have popped off at the mouth (keyboard)... don't be an @$$

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#13710 - 05/06/11 06:06 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Bee]
quillansculpture Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 552
Loc: Murrieta, CA
Hey DUG.....Hey, I'll admit why I don't glissade; Scares the CRAP outta me! I had a really bad experience as a kid on a sled, so I don't see much difference. I'd rather posthole or find a dry route.

Oh well, off today to do the WWW marathon with wazzu, my buddy DJ and a couple of others from this site. No glissading for me.....just 26.2 miles of trail, road, stream crossings and the Alabama hills.
_________________________
"Turtles, Frogs & other Environmental Sculpture"

www.quillansculpturegallery.com
twitter: @josephquillan

If less is more, imagine how much more, more is -Frasier

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#13711 - 05/06/11 06:06 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: quillansculpture]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Good luck Joe!!!

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#13712 - 05/06/11 06:09 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
Burchey
Unregistered


This is funny.

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#13720 - 05/06/11 07:35 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Ken]
SoCalGirl Offline


Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 225
Loc: Spring Valley, CA
Originally Posted By: Ken
...and often deals with folks like DUG....


I need clarification on what, exactly, a "folk like DUG" is...


Edited by SoCalGirl (05/06/11 07:35 AM)

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#13722 - 05/06/11 07:46 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Originally Posted By: NJ hiker
Several folks have been advising never to glissade from Trail Crest. Now with this video I see why: The slope goes left towards the rocks and this guy was going pretty fast and had to use his ice axe to slow down in perfect conditions! This video gave me the willies just watching it. At one point he yells 'can't stop now if I wanted to!' --if it had been icier....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3LLtyPri5Q&NR=1


It looked like a lot of fun to me but I've glissaded this and other slopes.

When the person says "I can't stop now even if I wanted to" he had passed through the steepest area of this run and was in a safe area. He just let it rip like a lot of us do from time to time when there is run out. Also, the conditions were slow...a bunch of slush.

If you don't have clue of how to self arrest or judge conditions you should walk down.

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#13727 - 05/06/11 08:04 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: KevinR]
CaT Offline


Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Blacklick, OH (formerly SoCal)
Folks! Take a deep breath, and please keep this civil.

Most important, please give each other the benefit of the doubt, and don't make assumptions about what you think someone is saying based on what someone writes. I don't see that happening here. Written communication is notoriously easy to misconstrue. Implying motives based on that is even worse.

Keep in mind that people have widely differing risk comfort zones, experience levels, and preferences in many areas of hiking and the outdoors, including both glissading and doing out-and-back (up-and-down) hikes, etc.

There are many people who hike up and back on all kinds of trails (long and otherwise) myself being one of those, and there are those who do not! So what?? As always, do your homework before you hike, know your limits, and stay within those. Peoples' limits vary greatly. A little respect of each others' differences is very much in order here.

As a housekeeping matter, please keep in mind that a lot of people read these posts. Please write them with that in mind. Each one of us is the "face" of this message board.

Thanks.

CaT
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#13735 - 05/06/11 10:29 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
Bob West Offline


Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 775
Loc: Bishop, CA, USA
While I was on Inyo SAR we recovered the body of a man who have attempted a glissade from Trail Crest. He apparently lost his ice axe about 200 feet above his final resting place; he was wrapped around a rock, which must have knocked him out, and subsequently died of hypothermia. The accident happened in February, during a drought winter.

During a Sierra Club mountaineering class, the students were being taught how to do a standing glissade! (Near Slim Lake - Keasage Pass area.) One guy ended up with a broken ankle. We flew him out in a helo. Lesson learned? I guess...

I never glissaded unless there was a long, safe run-out at the bottom and then, without crampons, with ice axe at the ready, and never on hard pack.

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#13740 - 05/06/11 01:13 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
Quote:
Written communication is notoriously easy to misconstrue.


I know that all too well...

I have done a standing glissade before. Now that is some tricky and scary stuff!
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#13741 - 05/06/11 01:17 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: RoguePhotonic]
DUG Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 366
Loc: Wildomar
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
Quote:
Written communication is notoriously easy to misconstrue.


I know that all too well...

I have done a standing glissade before. Now that is some tricky and scary stuff!


Isn't that called "skiing" ? smile.....................DUG

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#13746 - 05/06/11 02:58 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: RoguePhotonic]
Bulldog34 Offline


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 1254
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
I have done a standing glissade before. Now that is some tricky and scary stuff!


Me too! Only on a 600-foot sand dune in Colorado. Still tricky, but not nearly as scary . . .

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#13747 - 05/06/11 03:24 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: DUG]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
Originally Posted By: DUG
Originally Posted By: RoguePhotonic
Quote:
Written communication is notoriously easy to misconstrue.


I know that all too well...

I have done a standing glissade before. Now that is some tricky and scary stuff!


Isn't that called "skiing" ? smile.....................DUG


Basically but with no skis. crazy
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#13849 - 05/09/11 06:57 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: wbtravis]
NJ hiker Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Northern NJ
Thanks for the feedback WBT - "he had passed through the steepest area of this run and was in a safe area. He just let it rip like a lot of us do from time to time when there is run out."
Like you say: start small, get experience and control and then go for a planned big one. I understand how a man was killed on those rocks to the left, especially at the end of a day if you are too tired to walk down and think this is a faster way.

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#13852 - 05/09/11 07:06 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
NJHiker,

People do some extremely stupid things on this slope and from time to time they die...like use trash bags to accelerate their glissade, use trekking poles instead of an axe for a break or leave their crampons on while glissading. All noobs miscues.

The accidents rarely change on this mountain only the names of the injured and deceased.

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#13859 - 05/09/11 11:27 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
RoguePhotonic Offline


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Bakersfield CA
The standing glissade I did was not on any huge slope like the 99 switch backs. The variations in the snow make it extremely difficult to avoid tripping and I can't say I enjoyed it much but I was with a crazy friend that took all sorts of unnecessary risks.

As that guy was sliding down the slope I kept thinking he had his poles with him still. He should have grabbed one of those near it's bottom and used it for at least some breaking.


Edited by RoguePhotonic (05/09/11 11:28 AM)
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#13879 - 05/09/11 07:14 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: RoguePhotonic]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7209
Loc: Fresno, CA
I am glad NJ Hiker found Bob Rockwell's glissading video. It is a good one.

Bob wrote this on the old board in May 07:
Quote:
Knowledge and experience can take you a long way in life. But I do not believe in clairvoyance or prescience, and you would need them for this glissade slope if you risk it without an ice ax. That there is often a harder and icy section partway down has been pointed out by others. And I have mentioned it on several occasions.... Not the same slope, but another time I was glissading through soft slushy stuff and hit an unexpected patch of ice (with dire consequences).

A number of people glissading from Trail Crest without ice ax have died. In my years of mountain rescuing up there since 1970, perhaps ten or so. In fact, I was on two such rescues a week apart in the late '90s. Both hit the rocks at the bottom. The first died of severe head injuries; the second survived but with a ruptured spleen and broken back.

Every one I know who glissades that slope regularly is aware of that likely harder section, and would never do it without having an ice ax at the ready.

-----

Finally, a friend sent me this link on ice ax use a couple of hours ago. It's from the British Mountaineering Council, and is excellent.

Many of us say "Take an ice ax and know how to use it." While many who glissade this slope do know how to use it, many do not. We can recommend that you get instruction, but many will not. This is for you. It could be well worth six minutes of your time.


Here's the British Mountaineering Council's video:


    ...and another: Ice Axe Technique

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#13880 - 05/09/11 07:17 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Steve C]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7209
Loc: Fresno, CA
Bob R's "with dire consequences" phrase above pointed to a post titled "Glissading with Crampons" posted March '05.

Here's the text and image:
Quote:
It was in April 2000, and two friends and I were descending after a day climb. The top few inches of snow was soft all day so we didn't really need our crampons, but they gave a little added traction while walking. Of course we knew better than to leave them on for glissades, but the snow was so soft and the going so slow that it didn't seem a problem.

The long glissade below Trail Crest was without incident, but the next good one--down to Mirror Lake—was a different story. After about 200 feet I hit an unexpected patch of ice and speeded up instantly. The outer points of my right crampon caught on the ice and my foot everted. My fibula was put into instant compression, resulting in a spiral fracture. I went head-over-heels with my ankle feeling like fire, but had the presence of mind to successfully arrest without crashing into the rocks below.

My friends were kind enough to split the contents of my pack, and I hobbled down to the Portal. I spent the next six weeks in a cast, and it was two months before I was back in the mountains. The bone healed, but there was irreversible soft tissue damage to my foot and ankle. I must now wear a brace, otherwise I cannot walk for more than an hour or so without pain.

In retrospect, I think the wind had blown the soft upper layer of snow away at that spot, leaving the older hard crust exposed. At any rate, it was unexpected.

The picture on the left was taken the next morning, before I went into the ER. The X-ray is a lot clearer in the original, but I think you can see the fracture:


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#13885 - 05/10/11 06:10 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Steve C]
wbtravis Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1239
Loc: Corner of Jack Benny and Roche...
Steve,

I will second this bit of stupidity X 2. About 8-9 years ago, I when I was a winter noob...with some experience. I attempted to glissade the final 150' or so to Angeles Crest Highway from Mt. Baden-Powell utilizing my trekking poles as a break and wearing my semi-new Grivel G10s. Long story short, I tumbled, my leg folded up under me ripping a long "L" tear in my Gore-Tex pants and severely spraining my ankle.

I look at Bob's pictures knowing that could have been me. I was very lucky. Not long afterward, I purchased an axe and spent a day on the slopes with a Sierra Mountain Center guide learning how to use the damn thing.

After that day, I still spent a lot of time on the bunny slopes...trails with little climbing working my way up to bigger and more fun things.

Every year I am amazed at folks who want to rent a pair of crampons and an axe and take on the Trail Camp/Trail Crest chute with zero experience.

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#13985 - 05/13/11 05:32 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Bob West]
NJ hiker Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Bob West
While I was on Inyo SAR we recovered the body of a man who have attempted a glissade from Trail Crest. He apparently lost his ice axe about 200 feet above his final resting place; he was wrapped around a rock, which must have knocked him out, and subsequently died of hypothermia. The accident happened in February, during a drought winter.

During a Sierra Club mountaineering class, the students were being taught how to do a standing glissade! (Near Slim Lake - Keasage Pass area.) One guy ended up with a broken ankle. We flew him out in a helo. Lesson learned? I guess...

I never glissaded unless there was a long, safe run-out at the bottom and then, without crampons, with ice axe at the ready, and never on hard pack.


Bob, thanks for sharing: those are sad stories about the hiker and the student. I am with you on being uber-safe on slushy snow in warm sunshine on a 20 degree slope with great visibility and no rocks, with my ice axe ready and crampons off in my pack. Goretex outerwear makes it very slippery, like snow tubing, but without the cushion under you. I am just not very interested in luge as a sport, I guess.

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#13989 - 05/13/11 06:03 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
KevinR Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 578
Loc: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted By: NJ hiker
[quote=Bob West] Goretex outerwear makes it very slippery, like snow tubing, but without the cushion under you. I am just not very interested in luge as a sport, I guess.
I try to remember to carry an old pair of nylon/supplex shorts to put over my pants. Saves wearing out the seat of the more expensive pants.

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#13991 - 05/13/11 06:37 AM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
NJ hiker Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 74
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: NJ hiker
I am just not very interested in luge as a sport, I guess.


Let me amend that: as a *Personal* sport -- as a spectator sport it is awesome lol!

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#15015 - 06/11/11 07:28 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: NJ hiker]
Yury Offline


Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 57
Loc: T.O.
What is a typical way to glissade down the chute?
Is it "butt glissade" or "standing glissade"?

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#15017 - 06/11/11 08:34 PM Re: What not to do: glissade from Trail Crest video - scary! [Re: Yury]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7209
Loc: Fresno, CA
Sitting. Not steep enough for standing.

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