Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion 2012 Whitney Lottery information

Edit Jan 4, 2013:   2013 Whitney Lottery information is ~~here~~

Edit June 8:   The Unused Whitney Permits numbers can be seen here:  2012 Unused Permits.

Edit April 2:   Check Recreation.gov for remaining permits (A=Avilable, R=all reserved). If someone cancels a permit, it will show up as Available on the start date of the permit returned. Here are the links for the available slots. Click "Update Availability" to see the 2-week display of available permits:
  Mt Whitney Trail Day Use availability         Mt Whitney Trail Overnight availability

Important links from Inyo National Forest:
    Mt. Whitney Trail brochure
    Mt. Whitney Trail information web page
    Permit Pickup Instructions - Mt. Whitney

Edit March 26: The lottery winners have been notified. Any slots left become available April 1.
    For more info see:   The Mt. Whitney Lottery - as of March 26, 2012

Edit March 16: The lottery application period is now closed, and credit card charges are showing up.
    For more info see:   The Mt. Whitney Lottery - as of March 16, 2012

Reservations will be made through http://www.recreation.gov

More information here: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5342664.docx
                    And here: Mt Whitney Permit Reservations 2012

---

Brent N's original message:

I'm not seeing a lot of difference between the old and new system in terms of timing. Under the new system, lottery permits will be accepted from February 1 through March 15 and results will be sent out before April 1st. The real changes are that we will submit and receive results electronically, reservations can be changed electronically, and we can only list 10 alternate dates. I had hoped that the new system would bring instantaneous results, but alas, the government is still trying to teach us patience.

The website appears to let you attempt to reserve permits now, but no dates are available and I suspect won't be available for immediate reservations until after the lottery has completed.

Brent N

Looks like 'regular' permits can be changed online, but under the Whitney Zone info it says "-Permit reservations cannot be changed, transferred or resold. Only the leader or alternate leader can use the permit. There are no refunds." Looks like whitney permits can no longer be changed

Tif, you are correctly reading the word document, but the press release suggests you can make some changes:

"Along with the new online service there are some changes to the process for modifying your reservation, as well as the refund policy. Changes to a reservation can now be done online or through the call center up to two days before an entry date. Last minute changes can be made when permits are picked up if space is available."

I'm not sure how accurate the press release is but you can see it here:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/news-events/?cid=STELPRDB5343013

Regarding permit changes, I think they mean changes to the number of people hiking can be changed. Of course increasing the number would be possible only if space were available.

I think Inyo has some pretty strict rules against changing the leader or alternate leaders names. If people could change the names, then our Half Dome Permit hacker could enter the lottery a whole bunch of times, and then scalp his permits on Craigslist.

I'll try to get more info and report back here later.

I have posted the text of the document Brent N linked to above as well as a "Talking Points and Frequently Asked Questions" doc in this thread:
    Mt Whitney Permit Reservations 2012

I think the biggest issue for people is that there will only be ten possible entry dates that they can choose in the lottery application. And each of those is a specific date, not a range of days. I am hoping people here, along with folks at Inyo, can raise enough support to get the NRRS reservation people and their subcontractor to change the system to allow entering the range for the next round. From a computer software development standpoint, it would not be a huge task to enable checking a range of days.

So with the new online system is it only possible to enter one entry in the lottery? In the past we could mail in several applications if you wanted to do multiple trips (which I did last year - got up there 2 times in Sept)

Also - good to know that there will be a phone option for permit modifications (either size or date hopefully). Again this past Sept, I was able to switch the date of my permit from a Sun-Mon hike to a Sat-Sun hike. I'd hope that the possibility would still be there to do this (assuming available spots in the quota of course)

Questions since this will be our first time applying for the lottery. Do you think that I could submit multiple requests at 10 days a piece to span a month or two? Do we know what time on February 1st the website will allow us to start??

I am glad that they are taking the necessary precautions to avoid the scalpers! I just hope that everyone has an easy time accessing the system and that there are not any major gliches. Thanks!!

tif and mrshherrera, I think you will be able to make multiple entries in the lottery. (I need to try that and see, with the river lotteries that are open right now.) I know that was a must have item for the other trails (People DO take multiple trips in a season. )

To span the entire month, I think you would need to submit multiple applications, at $6 each (no-refunds), with each one covering 10 days. Of course, if you got lucky and were selected on more than one, you would be charged the $15 per person for the reservations. ...and "There Are No Refunds for the Mt. Whitney trail or Mt. Whitney Zone Day Use reservations." (from the Frequently Asked Questions)

That is yet another reason for the need of date ranges.

It really does not matter what time you create your lottery entry between Feb 1 or March 15. The actual lottery will not be run until AFTER the March 15 deadline.

For clarification, you would need to submit that one lottery application with ten separate entry dates. (I assume they would be consecutive.) You would not submit an entry for a single ten-day trip.

Whatever date you "win" in the lottery, it is mandatory that you start your trip at the trail head on that date. Multi-day trips must start ON THE ENTRY date specified on the reservation. They cannot start on a later date that the trip covers.

And while I am writing, multi-day trips may be extended or shortened without any penalty or consequence. All you need to do is inform the staff when you pick up your actual permit. And even then, if you come out a day late, it does not matter (as long as friends or relatives don't start calling and reporting you missing.)

As for making changes to your reservation AFTER you have won a reservation in the lottery, if you want to switch from Day Hike to an Overnight (or the reverse), those changes would depend on quota space availability. Those changes would be treated as a cancellation (no refunds) and a new booking. And so beware!!! It would incur the $6 reservation fee PLUS a new $15 per person fee. (I got that clarified... Inyo tried to prevent that but NRRS said no way.)

So make sure to get your entry dates AND the correct hike (Day hike or Overnight) right the first time when you make your lottery application.

I believe that you can only change the number of hikers on the permit without incurring an additional fee, and again it depends on space availability.

To stop hackers and scalpers, you will NOT be able to change trip leader or alternate leader name, and only those named people may pick up the permit.

Thanks for the clarifications!! It will definitely be interesting to see how the process goes this year!

Note that I have edited and added more to the "As for making changes..." paragraph above.

> Fee is now $15.00 + $6.00 reservation fee if I read correctly.
The fee is a single $6 for an application to the lottery (Or for any other trail permit for that matter), and then there is a $15 fee for each hiker on the Mt Whitney Trail. I think the $15 fee is charged only after successfully "winning" a permit reservation in the lottery.

Actually, every hike that gets into the Whitney Zone will be charged that $15 per hiker fee. So those exiting Trail Crest, and trips through the North Fork Lone Pine Creek (the Mountaineers Route) are included.

> How will the no show/cancelled permit process work for permit pickup? Will we have access to those permits that went unclaimed and if so will it be at IAC or reservation system?
That will be the same: Walk-in permits are free, available the day before for day hikes, and same-day for overnight hikes.

I should add: If adding people to the permit when you pick up the permit, and if space is available, there is NO charge. (That is the same as before.)

Hi;

I will be attempting my first Whitney hike this summer. First goal is to get a permit. Do I reduce my odds by trying to get a permit for 8 or should I keep it at 6 or below? I will be going on a Wed in August for a day hike

Thanks

Trying for 8 instead of 6 would reduce your odds only slightly.

For example, if the quota for your date only had 7 open slots left, then your request for 8 slots would fail, but a request for 6 would succeed.

But it is far more likely that with either number, your requested date would be wide open (if your application was processed early in the lottery), or the date would be full.

I would try for the 8 slots. But understand, too, that weekends fill up earlier than weekdays. So put down your ideal dates, but consider trying for a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday entry date, too, since those are usually less desirable, so would fill more slowly.

I did a day hike on a Wed last August. We got permits for our group of 11. We had submitted many alternate dates but luckily got our first pick.

It seems to me that with the new system in place, we will no longer have the option to list a "first pick date"

Hi;

I plan on submitting my permit application on Feb 1 but it doesn't seem like there is any real advantage? They take all Feb 1 - March 15 applications and have a single lottery? Are the early (Feb 1) applications given any higher priority?

Thanks

mrshherrera wrote:  It seems to me that with the new system in place, we will no longer have the option to list a "first pick date"

Actually, you should be able to pick ten specific date choices (no range of days, though). And I believe they are processed in order, first choice to last.


Doug wrote:  Are the early (Feb 1) applications given any higher priority?

All applications, no matter when they were entered, will be processed in the same lottery. Computer software has a random number generator, and they will use that to determine the application processing order.

That is great news, I did not know/think about that! In reading this and the WPS forum, people said how they failed to get a permit multiple years in a row...but maybe they are trying for only a day or two due to other obligations, etc. I was actually considering submitting permit requests under my name and then have my husband submit identical requests under his name but I think that may be overkill since we have almost 60 days picked out!! To think of all the hard work, training, preparations, etc to have your request end up on the bottom of the pile I guess is just the powers that be telling you that this year is not meant to be and as everyone says, the mountain will be there =) Thanks again!!!

Heather

Heather, it will require 4 separate lottery applications to put in 60 different entry dates. The new on-line lottery application screen only allows fifteen specific dates to be entered, with NO date ranges. I sure hope they change that next year!

Each of those 4 lottery applications will cost you a non-refundable $6 service charge.

And then, if more than one of them is successful, you will be charged $15 per hiker, and that is non-refundable. You can see why changing to date ranges is important.

In 2011, there was a 53% success rate. See this post:   Whitney Lottery Progress - as of March 31 2011

I believe in other river-trip lotteries carried by the same reservation service, there is about a 20% success rate.

As for Mt Whitney, there are many no-shows and some cancellations. So lots of people go without permits, show up at the IAVC (Visitor Center 1 mile south of Lone Pine), and ask for those. Most people are successful with those, either for the same day or the next. Since you need to acclimate to the altitude before climbing Whitney, the extra day gives you the time. Here's our Unused Permits information:
    Unused Whitney Permits for 2011

Edit: I have updated the above to reflect that you can enter up to 15 choices rather than 10 on each application.

Also, this is IMPORTANT: If the website pops up a request for your opinion on the site, please take the opportunity to comment. And ALWAYS write something like this:

We need to be able to enter a RANGE OF DATES on every choice in the Mt Whitney Lottery.

I have updated the above to reflect that you can enter up to 15 choices rather than 10 on each application.

Also, this is IMPORTANT: If the website pops up a request for your opinion on the site, please take the opportunity to comment. And ALWAYS write something like this:

We need to be able to enter a RANGE OF DATES on every choice in the Mt Whitney Lottery.

I got an update from Inyo N.F. staff:



Looks like things are cookin' on Recreation.gov!

Used it myself this afternoon, no significant bugs, had everything entered and paid for in under 10 minutes. Although I'll miss thinking of Cindy and the leaf blower in the stairwell!

Feb 02: 1875 Applications entered.

Suggestions on permit for Mountaineers Route? Is it in the Lottery or not?

> Suggestions on permit for Mountaineers Route? Is it in the Lottery or not?

It's both:

If you day hike the MR, you need a "DAY USE of Mt. Whitney Zone" permit, the same as the Main Trail. Some places on the website they add "All Routes" to its title. Enter the lottery to get one of those permits.

Or, if you are backpacking -- spending one or more nights -- then it is NOT in the lottery. You start with the Inyo National Forest - Wilderness Permits link, select the "North Fork of Lone Pine Creek - JM34" as the Trail. When you do that, you have to decide: overnight/cross country, and Visiting/Exiting-(or none)-Mt. Whitney (See explanation of those choices here)

For the overnight MR, the quota is 4 walk-in, 6 reservable up to 6 months in advance, and NOT in the lottery.

Incidentally, I believe the 6 reservable become available at 9 PM here in Cali, since the Recreation.gov site runs on Eastern time. Checking the north fork permits, I see 5 are already gone for that day that came available just several hours ago.

This is the first year that my wife and I are applying for a Mt. Whitney permit, and I have a couple of questions. I was thinking of having each of us apply separately, so that we will have 30 days total picked. I realize that we will have to each pay the $6 online fee. If we both get drawn, can we then just cancel one of the permits right off the bat, or do we have to each pay the $15 fee, and turn in the one we don't want to use? I'm not sure how that would be done.
Also, is our applying separately a good strategy, or is there a better way to insure that we get drawn for any of our days?
Thanks in advance for your advice.

It doesn't matter whether you put in two applications or you and your wife each put in one -- your chances are the same. (It is the Half Dome permits that are rejected if someone applies more than once.)

If your two applications both are successful, you will be charged twice, and it is non-refundable. Your credit card info is collected with your applications to use immediately once your lottery slot is successful. You won't get a chance to cancel before the charge is made.

If people were allowed to cancel with a refund, many would be putting in a lot more applications.

Thanks for clearing that up for me! How do you cancel one of them if I were to get two? Thanks again!

Canceling is pretty easy.

Go to www.Recreation.gov, and click on My Account or Log-In. (They both bring up the Member Log-In window). And sign in.

You will get an Account Overview page, and on the left some choices. Two of the choices are:

• Current Reservations
• Lottery Applications

By the way, the Lottery Applications... Detail will give you a printable page of the choices you entered on your application.

Once you get a successful reservation in the lottery, it will appear under the Current Reservations link. If you go to Current Reservations... Detail, it gives you the choice to Cancel Reservation.

I am confused. You can cancel your reservation, but there are no refunds?

It is pretty simple: There ARE NO refunds. Whether you cancel or not.

It is certainly helpful to the hiking community to cancel, so others can get the permit and plan for the hike.

But understand... if you were allowed to cancel and get a refund, then we would have a huge over-application issue -- lots and lots of people entering lots of applications at $6 a pop, Then they might possibly snag more than one successful date to hike. And then they would cancel all but one of their dates.

In the end, the only winners are the people at recreation.gov, who get to keep all those $6 application fees. As for the hiking community, we have the same number of hikers actually hiking.

Hmmmm..... The River lotteries allow cancellations and refunds (actually give you a chance to cancel the reservation BEFORE they charge the fee for the permit), except for the $6 application. THAT is likely a big reason there is a 20% success rate.

The Whitney lottery had more of a 50% success rate in the past -- but that was where people could ask for lots and lots of dates on a single application.

Here's an update:

If you did not enter your credit card info correctly, or possibly your cc number changes before the lottery is run, the recreation.gov people will call. But they don't give much time to respond -- like maybe one day.

So right after the lottery is run, people should check their phone messages closely. ...or check their CC charges to see if they got a slot. The charges may show up before you are notified, but I am not sure.

Thanks that makes sense.

I wonder how being limited to 10 dates will affect the lottery. Last year I put about 50 dates on my application. Seems like this year you have to make a choice between your top choice or dates that you are more likely to win. Maybe a lot more failed applications?

It may open up the playing field a little bit, perhaps. Hard to say.

CaT

Inyo staff tells me ~4100 applications have been submitted so far, which is on par with last year's paper lottery at this point. (However, last year, people needed to get their permits in by Feb 15, when processing began, to get the best chance of winning a slot.)

I forgot about that. I felt better when I was in the dark. Thanks Steve!

I used the registration system yesterday. Interesting that it said that results would be displayed on the website by March 26th.

I found the experience buggy. I filled in 15 alternate dates. On almost every entry, I had to enter the entrance date twice. Entries frequently disappeared and had to be re-entered. Maybe this was just Mozilla Firefox compatibility issues. Gripes aside, here's hoping the virtual leaf blower picks me . . . .

Brent N

Same here...

I selected Day Use so why did I have to do it for the 15 dates.
I selected the trail so why did I have to do it for the 15 dates.
I believe there was an "exit" trail...really now.
Yes, an error message popped up for "this and that."
Yes, panic set in....OMG I may have to re-do all of this again!

Yes, I prevailed...Now comes March 26...The "Ides" of March?

"The Lottery results will be displayed on the site by Mon Mar 26 2012" "Please visit the site after the lottery execution"

Does anyone else remember having to read the frightening classic,
[The Lottery] by Shirley Jackson? It was about an annual lottery and subsequent execution that happened in a small town due to superstition.

I'm not sure why this was on the required reading list in elementary school but when I read the words Lottery and Execution at the top of my confirmation page,the book and the creepy story was remembered in detail.

It's Tessie....

Saw the 1969 movie in grade school at least twice...

The legal community loves the word "execute" as to signing documents and whatnot....go figure...

There are about 6900 Whitney Lottery applications submitted so far. Slightly less than last year when there was a paper lottery.

Everyone, it is time to submit your applications -- this is the last week. Deadline is Thursday, March 15. They will probably cut off the lottery at midnight that day, but the system is on Eastern time, so it will probably be 9 PM, WhitneyZone time.

Good luck!!

Randuf reported on wpsmb that she had a terrible time making her entries.

On the other hand, I tried it out, entering 5 choices, and had no trouble. Go figure.

I am using Firefox 10.0.2 on a Windows 7 platform, but I don't know if that makes any difference.

Firefox 10.0.2 on an XP platform.

Just submitted my dates for my first time to Mount Whitney. I'm so excited. Come on April 1st!

Brent,I am using XP on the same platform through FireFox/Mozilla and I have had the same problems on and off through my entries. I had to repeat about everyother alternate date entry and it made me crazy because it would erase the date after I entered the trail exit choice. Believe it is a glitch in XP/Firefox firewall.Joni

I wrote this on Tuesday, March 6:


Today, there are 7600 applications entered.

Do not wait until the last day (Thursday, March 15) to get your application in. The system could shut down at any time that day. (But I'm guessing it will shut down at 9 PM Pacific time, since the system runs on Eastern time).

credit cards are beginning to be hit and some are showing reservations on their recreation.gov accounts. Not mine yet.

Brent

Well they are taking the money but I don't know my date yet. No email or notification on the website. I'm so excited!

Got a HIT!

10 people will be going...but when will we go?

Can't wait until March 26 or sooner.

I am like a kid Xmas eve....

Here's to all of you...keep a "positive attitude."

Whoa! I see a hit, too.

On Recreation.gov they show as "Lottery Freeze Period"

My credit card was hit for $15 this morning. Yipee!

cc doesn't show any charges yet, but it is usually a day behind. recreation.gov site shows lottery freeze period. this waiting is making me more koo koo!

        The Mt. Whitney Lottery – as of March 16, 2012

There were 9,142 applications submitted this year to the lottery. Dates are being awarded today, and people are charged automatically as the dates are awarded. The credit card charging process should be completed by the end of the day today.

People who entered an invalid CC number will be contacted starting March 26, so they won't even know whether they were successful until the phone call.

The available slots left will show up on Recreation.gov site sometime this weekend. Reservations with bad CC numbers that cannot be resolved will show up after March 26, as well. None of the slots remaining available can be reserved until April 1.

The April 1 scramble will start at 7 AM Pacific time. At that time computer users will have a few seconds to grab the slots they want (because lots of hikers will all be clicking at the same time). They set the time to 7 AM so people without a computer can phone Recreation.Gov and try for the same slots. (Guess who has an advantage.) It is likely the permits will all be "gone in 60 seconds."

Steve, wouldn't it be save to assume that if the $6 reservation fee when through ok, then the actual permit fee will through as well since it would be the same cc?

I am not Steve, but the $6 was for a processing fee separate from the reservation fee ($15 per person)

If you reserved by debit card, make sure you have money in your checking/savings account!!!

> wouldn't it be save to assume that if the $6 reservation fee when through ok, then the actual permit fee will through as well since it would be the same cc?

+@ti2d presented one scenario of a problem.

The $6 payment went through, but if your credit card number changed (due to expiration or theft), or you used a different card when you typed in the second one... Situations like those are what would cause the payment to be held up.

I had to enter my number twice. Once for the future issuance of the permit and then a 2nd time to get dinged for $6.00

If a typo occurs on one of the entries it might explain a delay in being charged.

I made such a typo, but the software caught it. One character to short and it said the charge number was invalid when I hit submit. I then had the opportunity to fix it. Seems like I should only have to enter my charge # once. Another opportunity for a product upgrade .

It would appear that I will be going for walk-in permits again this year.....or heading off to an adjacent drainage to do some exploring.

my account remains untouched. If I win the $200M lottery tonight, I won't be quite so bummed about not winning the Whitney lottery.

tdtz..... we'll be going sometime during the week in July. I'd love to have you come. It's a bit iffy on exactly which day we get, but so far, so good. Last year, Gary the interagency center, then called me and I drove up and got the permits.
Gary isn't sure when in July he's coming.... and hopefully there won't be as much snow as last year.

Tom, I updated the lottery report above regarding the April 1 scramble. You could possibly snag one then.

Out of curiosity, I went browsing the Day Hike availability at Recreation.gov. There are lots of slots still available, in May and late Sept through October, of course. But surprisingly, there are scads of slots in June, even 6 on Wed, July 4!
Check it out: Click here, then the "Find Permits" button.

Overnight permits are not so plentiful. With the exception of a few single-person slots, they are booked solid between June 7 and Sept 30.
Here's the link to Overnight Permits (Follow the link, then click the "Find Permits" button.)

Talking about gliches in the lottery system, my first pick was for 4 or 5 days but after i submitted it it reset it for only one day june 12-13. My question is that i got picked but if i call recreation.gov can they fix that? i looked at my details of my picks and the first date is screwed up. I remember when i was filling out the application it kept resetting my dates. any advice?

Respectfully

John Prietto

JQ,
oh, I plan on being there when all of you are there. Even if I don't get a permit, I'll hang with you and Gary and whoever else and hit another trail if I need be.
Tom

Are you saying that your entry date is June 12, with exit on June 13? And that you wanted to exit on June 17? If that is the case, then no worries. You can change the exit date when you pick up the permit. Entry dates are the thing that is cast in stone.

But if you got the wrong ENTRY date, good luck. You can call and try, but if there are no slots available on the day you are trying to get, I doubt they will change.

I am not sure, but to ask about changing start dates, I think you should call Inyo N.F. first.

I'm officially bummed. All of yesterday's credit card hits have gone through, but none from recreation.gov. I previously was charged for the $6 fee, so I know they have my number right. I'll be angling for a walk up permit.

Brent

Yes although i dont know for sure out of my 7 different start dates which one they picked but i do know that my preference date got screwed up. I went to recreation.gov and looked at the details o fmy application with joy until i saw it say eenter june 12 exit june 13, i was like what the @@@##$. Thats not what i put in when i submitted the application. I thought entry and exit had quota's? So you are saying that if only my exit date is a problem then i can change it? how sure are you ? because that would make me really happy! Good to see you again steve.

Respectfully

John Prietto

Does the recreation.gov site show anything different than the "Lottery Freeze Period" for those of you that have been charged the $15 pp permit fee??? It would appear that my card has more than a day delay, I do not see any charges from yesterday yet so I am still trying to hold out hope. The recreation.gov site has not changed on my acct since the lottery closed, but I submitted four applications with at least 10 alternate dates a pieced, I can't believe we wouldn't be able to score one with all of that.

Steve I confirmed your statement with Inyo ranger! Now let's hope I didn't get picked when my wife is due to deliver, I accidentally put two of my dates around her due date, stupid me I was just so exited

How many people have actually seen the $15pp charge hit their credit card?

I use AMEX and they have a "view pending charges" option on their site that is nearly immediate and I don't see anything from recreation.gov on there. I did see the $6 charge hit my card on 3/14 when I applied.

Thanks,
Chad

> I thought entry and exit had quota's?
Exit quotas apply only to backpackers starting on and coming from OTHER Inyo N.F. trail heads.

> So you are saying that if only my exit date is a problem then i can change it? how sure are you ?
100% It is ok for hikers to change their plan even while out on the trail. Exiting early or a day or two later is ok (as long as friends and relatives don't start calling Search and Rescue!)

> Does the recreation.gov site show anything different than the "Lottery Freeze Period" for those of you that have been charged the $15 pp permit fee???
No.

> I submitted four applications with at least 10 alternate dates apiece
Wow! You increased your chances of getting a slot by 4x. Sounds pretty unlucky, though. All your entries must have been picked to process more toward the end of the processing run.

My entry included a day hike in the middle of May (which I don't intend to really do). So I was sure to get a hit, even if processed last. I did that just to see how it all works so as not to be completely in the dark about the process.

> I accidentally put two of my dates around her due date, stupid me
Dude! Congratulations on the upcoming event! If you don't get your Whitney hike done at least 2 weeks before that magical date, forget it. Your baby is way more important that this mountain. It will always be there, but that birthday is once in a lifetime. (And after the birth, I'd hope you would hang around to help. Trust me, it's a lifestyle-changing event.)

I don't advocate this, but I just read it on wpsmb. If too many people do this, I'll bet they will put a stop to it.

Well, it is a toll-free number on the uppper right on recreation.gov's website!

It was put there for a reason...to call, but not just for Whitney matters...

Tom, Joe - the rough draft of the plan is to arrive in L.A or San Diego on July 11th or 12th and spend 4 nights relatively close to Baldy and Sanny J. We'd like to get both of those this trip. We'll then move on to Horseshoe Meadows for a couple of nights acclimation, then shoot for a 2 or 3-nighter on Whitney, entering Wed the 18th. MT or MR is up in the air, depending on a number of factors. A few days at the Hostel & Portal afterwards, and maybe a walk up White Mtn or another adventurous trip to Cathedral Peak if the family's feeling fairly energetic post-Whitney. If we're just bustling with energy, maybe we'll try Tom's direct route to Lone Pine Lake . . .

Did the National Forest Service name Tom's Route to LPL yet? I think Tom will have to let them check his SPOT device to show them the simplicity of the trail.

I'm up for Baldy and San Jacinto. I would love to pick the routes. Nothing tough on Baldy, just different. Sanny J, Marion Mtn.

Wow, MT or MR.... Up in the air! LOVE IT :-) I'm open for either. I'm pretty sure Tom wanted to try the MR too. And, for me, going with mom and dad doesn't hurt. I'll make sure my lil' sis will be fine.

Yes I have chase and mine showed up yesterday for $15 . I got my first preference for June 12th!

"Li'l Sis" is the biggest problem, Joe. She's all for the MR, especially if Laura is with her, but is adamant that she doesn't want to climb the Final 400. Imagine that - she wants to go all the way to 14,100' and turn around! Of course, that's now - maybe her perception will change over the next few months. Kids can surprise you. She did great scrambling up the C4 MR on Cathedral last year with Steve, despite being scared s**tless. Steve's presence was a huge confidence-builder for her while I was over on the technical side of the mountain with Bob. And you remember how wiggy she was crossing the snow chute on the 97th switchback last year without spikes, but she did it just fine - going and coming.

She's just twitchy about exposure if she's not harnessed and roped. She's only 12, so I guess it's only natural. She prefers tackling a 5.7 wall rather than an unroped C3/4 scramble. In the climbing gym she's almost completely over her fear of heights - she just concentrates on solving the climb and ignores the exposure. No rope though, and all she can think about is falling. An Alex Honnold she ain't. Bottom line though, I'm not going to ask her to work an unroped C4 climb that she's uncomfortable with, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens as we get closer to July.

And the routes on Sanny J and Baldy are definitely your call.

Tell Bri I don't want to do the final 400 either, but I'm not going back at that point. And rope. I mean, we could bring some if it makes her feel better...... hey, maybe even an escalator and stools for the Starbucks on the summit!
She'll be fine. Laura's gonna have more concern for the guy holding a pillow, that's wiggin out on the final 400.... oh....that BE me :-)

Gary, I met that spunky 12 year old last year just before the final push. She is one tough chick. I'll bet she does it.

Brent N

Now that I have made my mistakes, I do want to try that direct route again. God forbid that the NPS every gets ahold of my gps track and names the route that I actually took. They'd have to name it the "Aimless wanderer" route.

As Joe pointed out, I am pretty much up for whatever and whenever. If I can get permits, great. If I can't, no problem, I'll either do meysan or tuttle or whatever. I would love to head up the MR and I would have Joe haul my lazy ass up the final 400' with the rope he is bringing for Bri.

It may be just me, but it's looking the boy will likely join us too.

Oh I just have to put in my 2 cents:
1st cent, I am so excited, I won a spot even though I have no clue what date. It doesn't matter though.
2nd cent, Nothing is more fulfilling than the joy and wonder of a new baby..Believe me your wife and your baby on the way need you more than the mountain plus due dates are just an estimate.Your baby could arrive 2 weeks before or 2 weeks after the due date. Once in a while they come right on schedule .Congratulations on both of your upcoming events,.pray for good timing.

Just checked my bank account and I have a $30.00 charge for recreation.gov Ballston Spa NY. I'm guessing this is for two permits to Whitney! Can't wait to get another crack at her!

Thanks everyone for the nice words and support. So i found out that my date was my first pick! june 12 for 5 days!! My wife is due in Sept 1 give or take 2 weeks before or after so ill be fine. I agree, the birth of a new life is more important than any moutain. I just found out that its a girl! so thats my third kid and im about to turn 30 years old, having babies like its going out of style..lol in our culture it is going out of style. Im so excited to finally meet whitney. Time to start planning and prepping. Any suggestions im all ears. Is any one else plan on going when i am?

I just called that 877 number and found out my date, May 19th. It was the last pick but I'll consider myself lucky to even get picked. Probably won't summit but it will be fun to give it another go.

Hi

I requested Aug 6-9 (mid week). I see no indication that I won or lost the permit lottery. Should I be worried yet or wait until March 26 to worry? Are the winners so far earlier in the season? Any Aug winners yet?

Thanks
Doug

Doug, if you can check online to see your credit card charges, if there is nothing from Recreation.gov, then you likely did not get a slot. Sorry to give you the bad news.

Well, I got a hit for $30 on my cc. I suppose that's good news.

The weird thing is, none of my lottery entries were for two people. They were all for groups of three and four. Not really sure what to make of that just yet.

No charges on my cc so it looks like we missed out. If anyone was lucky enough to get permits that they cannot use, please let me know. We are looking for 4 for overnight.

moheel, sorry you missed out this year. Unfortunately, there is no way people can transfer their permits to someone else. Only the person named as leader or alternate may pick up the permits at the Visitor Center in Lone Pine.

I see you are from Idaho. There ARE definite possibilities to get cancellations and no-show permits. First of all, cancellations will pop up on Recreation.gov throughout the season. (I am not sure, but they may be made available every day at 7 AM Pacific time, ...or randomly through the day -- we will see.)

They manage the many no-shows pretty well, too, with a process to draw lots each day at the Visitor Center at 11 AM. The regulars who use this process are seldom disappointed.

If you were willing to come down and spend a day or two acclimating and trying for those no-shows and last-minute cancellations, I am sure you would get your permits.

And finally, check out the Unused Whitney Permits pages to get an idea of the abundance of permits at different times. Be aware that these numbers reflect the unused permits AFTER all the no-shows and cancellations have been given out to people asking for them.

John, that is wonderful news that your permit date will work out with the coming of your 3rd little miracle. I can't wait to find out my permit date but I do know it will be in Aug.or Sept. At first I wanted to attempt Whitney in July instead I will have the joy of watching my first and only child, pick up her college diploma. I worked on her to be my hiking partner but it appears she will be working to save money for her wedding instead. Eitherway it looks to be an exciting summer. Joni

Okay, still no charge to the cc and I cannot see pending charges, but nothing has hit since before Friday! I called my visa and they said YES, there is a pending charge from recreation.gov!!! YAY! Keep hope alive people!!!

Steve

Just checked my credit card - I did get charged $120 (group of 8) by recreating.gov! Don't know the date, but we are in - Great News! My first time (age 56). Now I have to begin the serious training. Did Half Dome last year - hope Whitney is just as successful

Really Excited - thanks for the inputs!
Bay Area Doug

Awww... shucks... denied on all counts. Looks like I'm staying home all summer.

Ha!

Called and asked about charge on my CC and was told it may have been a "ghost charge" and pending. I explained that it is not a ghost charge...the money has been taken and want to know why. I was told that they can no longer give any more info. I must wait till the 26th.

Called back and spoke to a different rep. Was told the same thing that they can't release any info. Arrrrrg

I guess a few folks had fun while it lasted. Maybe next year they can get the info out in a shorter time.

Stay Home??? No Way. Colorado calls you Laura. OR at least you will be resupplying Rosie at Rae Lake. Someone has to take her the raspberry jello and she fired me.

Sorry about Mt Whitney but of course you will easily get a walk in when Gary, Barb and Bri show up.

Well, not settling for no answer, my wife called and played off like she did not know what the charge was for and wanted some info. She told them she thought it had to do with a camping reservation I was making. They spilled the beans! Yup, I got my 4 slots for a two nighter! July 18th thru 20th. Oh Yea!

Noticed a credit card hit. So i'll be hitting the big mountain again this year as well as crewing/pacing in the Badwater. Yippeee

Glad to see you'll be coming out! When will you be here? Gary and I hope to see you on the mountain again :-)