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Permit Logistics Questions
#22680 04/06/12 12:26 AM
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I have day hike permits for June 20 for me and my brother. I'm pretty excited, but I had a couple of questions I was hoping someone could help me with.

1) My father and other brother now want to come, so I need 2 more permits. From what I've read on this board and elsewhere, getting walk-in permits on a wednesday in June is unlikely to be a problem. However, we'll be driving up to stay at Horshoe Meadow on Monday and stopping to pick up the permit on the way. On the Inyo website it says walk-in permits are available starting at 11 the day before. Do they strictly follow this or will they let me add people to my group late Monday if they have a bunch of space?

2) The rules say that you can't use consecutive day use permits or combine them with any other type of permit. Do they still enforce this if they are two separate hikes and you don't spend the night in the whitney zone? We might go to lower boy scout lake on Tuesday, and it would be nice if we could pick up some permits in case we want to go a little farther.


Last edited by amg; 04/06/12 12:29 AM.
Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #22681 04/06/12 08:23 AM
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#2 first...day hike permits are for day hiking and overnight permits are for multi-day trips. You can't combine the former to get the latter.

#1...I guess that is up the people at the visitor's center. My guess is there will be a ton of permits available on a June Wednesday. You can always ask. I certainly would, if I were in your position. Hmmm...make that whine.

Last edited by wbtravis; 04/06/12 08:24 AM.
Re: Permit Logistics Questions
wbtravis #22685 04/06/12 11:20 AM
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AMG: there is a lottery held at both 0800 and 1100 each day for walk-in permits. The first is for same-day entry, the second is for next day entry. You can show up anytime after 1100 to try and get walk-in permits, but there is no way of knowing availablility after the initial rush at 1100.

Essentially, the 0800 lottery takes care of any remaining permits from the previous day.

-L


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Re: Permit Logistics Questions
MooseTracks #22686 04/06/12 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: wbtravis
#2 first...day hike permits are for day hiking and overnight permits are for multi-day trips. You can't combine the former to get the latter.

#1...I guess that is up the people at the visitor's center. My guess is there will be a ton of permits available on a June Wednesday. You can always ask. I certainly would, if I were in your position. Hmmm...make that whine.

Thanks. I understand that you can't combine them for overnight trips. But are day permits on consecutive days okay if they really are separate day hikes? We are staying at Whitney Portal Tuesday night and then doing the main trail.

Originally Posted By: MooseTracks
AMG: there is a lottery held at both 0800 and 1100 each day for walk-in permits. The first is for same-day entry, the second is for next day entry. You can show up anytime after 1100 to try and get walk-in permits, but there is no way of knowing availablility after the initial rush at 1100.

Essentially, the 0800 lottery takes care of any remaining permits from the previous day.

-L


Thanks for the explaination of how they run the lotteries. Ugh, sounds like one of us gets to drive to Lone Pine Tuesday morning. I kind of figured that would be the case, but I was hoping if by Monday afternoon it was clear that they would have enough to go around they would take pity on me wink

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #22689 04/06/12 04:37 PM
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If they continue to adhere to prior practice, you may be able to get your extra day permits in June a few days early, IF they actually have a glut of permits. Normally in June they would have a glut; however, with the low snow, this year could be different. Alternatively, if you monitor recreation.gov, you may be able to pick up the extra permits ahead of time that way.

I have to think that the ONLY way to do two back-to-back day trips into the Whitney zone is by having two back-to-back day passes. I don't think the kind of trip you have in mind is the type of abuse that they are concerned about (i.e, as I read your question, you are not trying to use a day pass to get a jump start on a multi-day/night trip for which you have another permit). You could call them to be sure, of course. In the past, I have gotten accurate information over the phone at (760) 876-6222.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Akichow #22690 04/06/12 05:42 PM
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Laura,

In July 2009 or 2010 (I'm old and ICRS), a friend and walked in at the open asked for and received MMWT permits without waiting for a hat with numerous pieces of numbered paper in it.

Is this a new practice? I know about the lottery for permits for hiking the following day.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
wbtravis #22691 04/06/12 08:19 PM
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I know it's a process I've waited through for the past few years while getting walk-in permits, including last summer when I was in charge of getting permits for the Sierra Challengers (and myself, that Sunday in August).


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Re: Permit Logistics Questions
MooseTracks #22692 04/06/12 09:52 PM
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I believe that when permits are highly limited, the 8 and 10 am lotteries may be the only choice. I've done that twice. If there are a lot of extras (e.g October, June), they will free them up earlier in the week for walk ins. I did that once. But it occurs to me that this year may be different b/c of the new relationship with recreation.gov, which is why folks may want to call the interagency office for updated info.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Akichow #22693 04/06/12 11:18 PM
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This is the first I have heard of a lottery at 8 AM. I guess that would be the best policy if there is a crowd waiting at the door for the 8 AM opening time. But just to be clear, this lottery would ONLY be for same-day entry permits that were left over from the previous day.

On the prior day, those permits became available at 11 AM, and were available to anyone walking in between then and 5 PM.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Steve C #22697 04/07/12 06:33 AM
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Yes, I added on to prior messages and may have oversimplified. My recollection is that, at least under past practice, there are two lotteries each morning -- one for overnight permits, with entry starting that day (at 10 a.m.) and one for one day permits (with entry starting at midnight that evening). But if you walk in the day of entry and ask for a permit and they have it, they'll give it to you outside of the lottery.

The larger point though is that, at least in the past, if they had a lot of permits, you might not have to wait until the "day of" lottery to snag one. Steve, is that correct?

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Akichow #22703 04/07/12 02:02 PM
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Akichow, I think we're getting things mixed up here. First of all, the MAIN lottery is at 11 AM, not 10. People have until 10 AM to pick up their reserved permits, so are declared no-shows at that time, and then at 11 AM, those no-shows are available for the daily lottery.

There used to be a 2 pm lottery for the next-day day hike permits. Those with reservations had to pick up or call in by noon, and if they didn't, their permits were made available at the 2 PM lottery. But THAT has changed. The Visitor Center last year eliminated the 2 PM lottery, and estimated the 12 Noon no-shows, making them available at the 11 AM lottery.

So the 11 AM lottery was all I knew about, for BOTH next day day hike permits AND the same day overnight permits.

The 8 AM thing is only for leftovers from the prior day, which were already available at 11 AM through closing the day before.

The dual lottery consolidation occurred last year. Things could change this year again -- you never know.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Steve C #22712 04/08/12 08:50 AM
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Ahh, thanks. Last year, I just walked in the day of for a day permit (jut going to Outpost Camp), so no lottery. Didn't realize they had eliminated the other lottery.

The Original Poster's question related to the ability to pick up permits from the permit office before the day of entry. Don't know if he ever got an answer to his question....

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #22761 04/09/12 11:53 PM
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Thanks everyone for their input. I have been checking recreation.gov to try and snag 2 more permits in advance. I'll also plan on giving them a call the weekend before to inquire about permit availability and verify how they will be handling walk-in requests.

It sounds like we should be okay asking for tuesday day hike permits as long as we assure the ranger that we understand the rules and are just day hiking. Of course, if we have to be in Lone Pine at 11 we probably won't have time to go past LBSL anyway, so it will be moot.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #22840 04/13/12 04:45 PM
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The walk-in alternative may not be necessary. As the date nears, people cancel. The nice people that cancel take the time and effort to notify the Permit Office (or now Recreation.gov) so others can use their permit. I lucked out this way several times even on an August weekend. The odds are good that someone nice will cancel on your June Wednesday and turn in their permits.

Remember, as your hike date approaches, you're only competing for cancellations with people who are flexible and ready to go on short notice. So keep checking Recreation.gov right up to the last minute. You might be surprised.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
SierraNevada #22874 04/14/12 07:52 PM
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Does anyone know if we can pick up the permit earlier,I mean 3 or so days earlier. I have been looking for the answer but so far I haven't seen the answer or I just missed it during all of the confusion with the new lottery system.
Thanks,


"If you don't have a strategy, you're part of someone else's strategy."
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Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Jonishiker #22878 04/14/12 10:24 PM
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Two days is a pretty hard and fast rule.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #23546 05/03/12 10:25 PM
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Was able to pick up the 2 extra permits I needed on recreation.gov tonight, so that's one less thing to worry about. Checking every day was starting to get frustrating, but ended up paying off. Big thank you to whoever turned in 2 permits for June 20.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
amg #23547 05/03/12 10:54 PM
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Congrats, amg. So checking regularly DOES work!

Here's a tip for people who want to keep checking for permits:
Create a bookmark (or "favorite" depending on the browser) to hit the recreation.gov site for exactly the date you want. Then, anytime you are on your computer, you can click that one spot, and see if a slot has come up.

Now, setting up a link to hit the date you want and the permit (overnight or day hike) you need can be tricky. You have to take the following text and modify it for the date you want.

Here is for a Day Hike permit. Note the date at the end:
http://www.recreation.gov/permits//r/ent...date=07/01/2012

And here is for the overnight permit:
http://www.recreation.gov/permits//r/ent...date=07/31/2012

For the permit you want, right-click the appropriate link above, and then select Copy Link Location (Firefox) or Copy Shortcut (Internet Explorer). Then paste it into your browser's URL line, change the date at the end to the day you need, then press Enter. The Rec.gov site should appear, with the permit type and date displayed. Do not click "Find Permits", or you will lose the data on the URL line. Instead, click Bookmarks, Bookmark this page (in Firefox), or Favorites, Add to Favorites (in Internet Explorer).

You could even set the link as your home page, so every time you start your browser, you could check for permits.

Then, clicking the bookmark will take you directly to the Rec.gov page for the desired date, and all you then do is click "Find Permits". If one is available, you will see it right away.

Good luck!

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Steve C #23564 05/04/12 09:18 PM
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That's a neat trick with the URL. I'll have to remember it for next time I need to stalk permits or campground reservations. I bet it works with reserveamerica as well since the interface is the same.

One comment - If you find available permits and need to book more than 1 spot make sure that you change the group size BEFORE you click the "book permit" button. (Or you could change it in the URL you bookmarked) The page where you fill out the permit information has a box to change group size, but it won't let you increase it past the number of permits it has on hold.

Re: Permit Logistics Questions
Steve C #23870 05/10/12 06:28 PM
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I was just checking recreation.gov for a friend, and it looks like people are starting to cancel, as there are some spots available for june and early july. There are even overnight permits for saturday and sunday june 23-24.

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