Mt Whitney Webcam
Mt Williamson Webcam
Feature Topics
Who's Online
0 registered (), 9 Guests and 75 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
3643 Members
10 Forums
5517 Topics
50571 Posts

Max Online: 382 @ 11/07/12 05:45 AM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#36555 - 05/17/14 05:50 PM Ultralight Manifesto
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
Originally Posted By: Steve C
Hobbes, I am getting on toward geezerhood, and ultralight is the means necessary for me to succeed in trips. So I am very interested in your setup. I just purchased an Ursack "all white" and aluminum liner to lighten the bear safety setup.

What is your sleeping setup -- mattress, quilt, etc. And how do you successfully keep covered using the quilt? What do you use for rain protection: tent, parka, etc?


Well, I'm 56, so I don't know if that counts for geezerhood. I've always enjoyed long(ish) day hikes in the 15+- mile range - especially to fish remote streams & lakes. I've got pretty good cardio, and usually run 20+ miles/week, including a 10k weekend run, and sometimes a 1/2 marathon.

However, I've always hated being constrained by carrying a pack - especially with any weight. And it's not like I'm a lightweight - I'm 6'1", 180lbs and have been surfing for over 40 years. IOW, I have a lot of upper body strength, so it's not a function of physical ability, but rather the psychological challenge of using technology to solve a problem. And that is, why carry anything that you don't need to get through two conditions: wet and cold.

The key to dealing with cold is spending money on loft - I'm talking 800 fill power at a minimum, and 900+ FP if you find/afford it. Knowing what I needed to deal with expected max minimum summertime lows in the mid-upper 20s (anything colder and I will either not go or hike out), I figured out the amount of down (in ounces) I needed to get through the night.

I also learned how to sew, because purchasing any retail item(s) is going to necessarily entail something overbuilt simply to deal with customer expectations ie no one wants to spend $ on some flimsy thing that is going to need periodic attention. The kit I used was this one from Thru-Hiker: http://thru-hiker.com/kits/quilt_kit.php (top line kit @ $219). Note also the high tech M90 fabric that is coated with a durable water repellent (DWR). There is enough fabric to create the quilt wide enough so that it can tuck under you to trap body heat. As many may know, compressed down underneath you (as in a sleeping bag) does absolutely nothing, so it's wasted weight.



I also have a Montbell 800FP vest that I can wear to help get through cold(er) night - like when Guitar is windy & cold. This is what I have: http://www.amazon.com/Mont-Bell-Alpine-Light-Down/dp/B00F2Y9PGO. In addition, I have beanie to trap air from my head.

So that's my sleep set up. For a pad, and this might be a little extreme for many/most, I have a cut down Ridgerest that extends from my hips to my shoulders: http://www.cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/trek-and-travel/ridge-rest-solite/product

I'm into failproof simplicity, so I don't want any failures with inflatables - that's what can doom you on cold ground. I can deal with a handful of rough nights out on this pad, since my #1 goal is to get through 7-8hrs of night to enjoy 16hrs of daylight.

Any long time surfer knows all about hypothermia - you don't have to be in snow to experience the effects. In fact, any ambient temp below 96 is going to induce a chill over time with respect to the amount of activity one is doing. That's why you can get hypothermia in tropical water - 72-78 ain't gonna do you any good if you're wet and not moving enough. So the key is to stay dry & reduce the chance of getting wet.

To that end, I built DIY low-profile tarps - solo & 2-man - that are probably around 15-20% oversized in both length and width. The solo weighs 15oz with guy lines & stakes, while the 2-man is 1lb, 5oz. Here's a picture of my son chilling in the 2-man:



That ground cover is polycro - the same material as window insulation: http://www.amazon.com/Duck-281065-Indoor-Window-120-Inch/dp/B000NHW2Z6 Also, those are turkey baking bags holding our clothes. (The yellow quilt is a synthetic I built on my first attempt.)

For rain gear, I use this poncho:
http://www.amazon.com/Frogg-Toggs-FTP171...rog+togs+poncho

It's not that hardy, but my intention is to hole up during rain, not hike. Besides, if there's lightning, I don't want to be hiking anyway. The poncho can also supplement the tarp by wrapping it over the foot section of the quilt, even though the tarps have been through monsoon rains and have stayed perfectly dry inside.

For cooking, I use this esbit burner from TD http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-cone-system with a Ti pot and use freezer bag techniques covered here: http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101/freezer-bag-cooking-101/

Last, but not least, since my gear is so light, my DIY pack doesn't have to carry more than 20 lbs. Less than 20 lbs means I don't need a frame. Frameless means my pack can use really light, 1st run, high quality, high strength silnylon, along with the folded sleeping pad as the backpad:



That's a BV450 tucked inside, but I also recently got the Ursack Allwhite to use in areas not specifically prohibited eg Yosemite, Rock Creek (Miter), Rae Lakes (Center basin) & Dusy basin.

This basic setup weighs 7.4 lbs - including the 10 essentials and other knicknacks. My fishing gear (2 rods - one spinner, one fly) weighs 1.3, so I'm @ 8.7 before food/water. For a 4 night trip, I'll take 4lbs of food (avg 150 cal/oz), so add 4 lbs and and avg of 16oz of water between dips & drinks + 1/2 lb of sunscreen, DEET, soap, toothpaste and fuel, which together adds another 5.5 lbs. All told, I hit the trail with around 14.2lbs. When exiting, I'm @ 10.2lbs.

That's why I usually plan on hiking 15-20 miles out on my last day. I'm essentially carrying nothing, so it's really just like a long(ish) day hike. That's about it - I'm sure there will be questions, so this should be enough info to serve as an anchor post.


Edited by Hobbes (05/17/14 06:05 PM)

Top
#36556 - 05/17/14 09:09 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
Wow! You are the king of ultralight. thanks

I think I can adopt some of it. smile

Top
#36560 - 05/18/14 06:58 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Steve C]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1030
Loc: Madison, WI
my empty pack is heavier than his 10 essentials, I think, and with camera gear I am already at more than twice his base weight.
laugh

Top
#36561 - 05/18/14 07:01 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Steve C]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
If there is one core piece of advice I could give to anyone interested in UL, or simply going lighter, it would be to learn how to sew.

For anyone who possesses even a modicum of mechanical aptitude, you can learn how to sew 2-3 basic seams within 1 hour. With those 2-3 seams, you can sew any rectangular object ie tarp, quilt & sack (backpack). (Note that I don't mess around with clothing - that's a whole different skill level.)

And the sewing machine doesn't need to be anything fancy either. In fact, the preferred machines for DIY gearheads are older metal Singers pre-dating the plastic era that began in the late 70s. It's harder to find these machines these days since so many UL hikers started making their own equipment, but you can still find them for under $100.

Once you can sew, then you're free to use absolutely the best materials available for a relative pittance compared to available retail products. I'm talking stuff that extreme expeditions use ie super strong, lightweight & warm. I provided a link above to T-H, but here it is again:

http://thru-hiker.com/materials/index.php

Learning how to sew is what launched me into the SUL stratosphere. I used this T-H silnylon to make my backpack - it weighs 9oz and could easily carry over 20lbs:

http://thru-hiker.com/materials/coated.php

My tarps are made from the same material, and are nothing more than oversized versions of the these plans @ TarpTent - which are in turn versions of Ray Jardines original concepts:

http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html

That's about it - get a few things together, and all of a sudden, you're in the UL zone.

Top
#36570 - 05/19/14 12:51 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
I sewed together a Frostline tent kit ...about 37 years ago! I think that weaned me off of sewing. It takes me lots of time to do it right.

I have an 8 oz Zpacks Blast pack. And the Ursack... So I'm getting into the light zone.

Top
#36591 - 05/19/14 09:34 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Steve C]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
Originally Posted By: Steve C
I have an 8 oz Zpacks Blast pack. And the Ursack... So I'm getting into the light zone.


How are you not already in the UL zone with that setup? I was inspired by the Blast to create my own pack out of silnylon. I read that he got 2,000 miles out of his on the PCT, so I knew the material would be strong enough for simple multi-day trips.

I used my old Osprey to measure all the dimensions for pads, straps, placement, etc. Btw, doesn't the Blast use a foam pad as the backpad/pseudo-frame?

With the pack/pad taken care of, that would leave only the tarp & quilt. This guy makes quilts with materials sourced from T-H:

http://store.enlightenedequipment.com/

With freezer bag cooking and a 9oz esbit burner, you'd be in the UL cooking space. Plus the Ursack - how is your baseweight above 10lbs? Or is it? Have you weighed everything? Heck, you might already be an ULer. LOL

Do you still wear boots or are you wearing trail runners? Here's my running/hiking shoe right now:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Balance-MT1010v2-Minimus-Running/dp/B00ASH0ZPU



Edited by Hobbes (05/19/14 09:35 AM)

Top
#36650 - 05/21/14 12:38 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
BamaFireman Offline


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Alabama
WOw! This thread is a joy to read and quite informative. I feel like less of an outlier now.

It seems that sewing is in my future as well. The 4 oz. tent bag that has served as a backpack needs repair. The ends of the bag were damaged when trekking poles were foolishly placed in the bag for air transport. The pack should not have been used as luggage.

In place of dedicated pads on the shoulder straps, spare socks are used. A string serves as a chest strap. In place of a waist belt, webbing is placed around the lower half of the pack and around my stomach. That may not be comfortable for some people, but the strap is tolerable for me. A garbage disposal bag keeps everything in the pack dry.

Some concessions are needed for temperatures of 10 degrees and lower. The Z-lite is replaced by an Expedition DownMat. The DownMat is not at all light and it provides no frame for the pack. But careful arrangement of items in the pack provides compression zones around which to place the waist belt webbing. Should the DownMat ever fail on a cold weather outing, then the mat will be draped over other gear that is strategically place to leave void spaces for mat expansion pockets. Maybe that will work. Also, a Western Mountaineering Versalite regular sleeping bag is light and toasty warm. It will be difficult for me to replace the Versalite with a quilt. Full confession: I have never actually slept in the Versalight with it zipped up. It is just too hot.

A Eureka Solitaire is used as a four season one man tent. The fiberglass poles have been replaced with lightweight Spitfire aluminum poles, resized to fit. An extra hoop (poles) is set at an angle to the other poles for added strength. Aluminum gutter nails are used as anchors. The corners of the tent are placed below ground level and rocks cover the anchors in windy environs. The tent handles 50 m.p.h. winds with aplomb.

A tip for folks who are unable to find good fuel: my Pocket Rocket with regular propane/butane works above 16,000 ft elevation. It is good to keep the fuel warm to ensure adequate vapor pressure. I sleep with the fuel between my legs. Whatever works, I guess.

Jesse

Top
#36656 - 05/21/14 07:42 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: BamaFireman]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
Originally Posted By: BamaFireman
It seems that sewing is in my future as well. The 4 oz. tent bag that has served as a backpack needs repair. In place of dedicated pads on the shoulder straps, spare socks are used. A string serves as a chest strap. In place of a waist belt, webbing is placed around the lower half of the pack and around my stomach. A garbage disposal bag keeps everything in the pack dry.


If you can measure, saw & nail a 2x4, you can measure, cut material & sew a rectangle. Tarps, quilts & backpacks (the bags) are all rectangles - bags are just rectangles sewed edge-to-edge to form barrels.

It's amazing how light a backpack can be. Even cheap rip-stop can easily handle 20lbs. And once you're UL, going over 20lbs is rare. If you're baseweight is 10lbs (or less), that would require 10lbs of food just to get to 20lbs.

As for pads, rather than socks, I would suggest spending a buck or so on 1/4" or 3/8" neoprene. Most hardware stores sell it as 2" squares cut from sheets, so they can cut you two strips to your measure.

Turkey cooking bags cost a few bucks, but have much higher tear strength than garbage bags.

Buckles are around 50 cents. Put one on your sternum strap, shoulder pads & hip belt to get proper adjustment. Here I am all ready to go @ SBL (I had come down from Langley the night before) from a few years ago:



Those are 20oz Gatorade bottles on the front straps. They allow dip n' drink on the trail, and put a little weight in the front as counter-balance. (They are perfectly level, they just look cockeyed due to the terrain I'm standing on.)

Here's rear of the pack @ Portal two days later.



Those shoes are New Balance MT110:
http://wakesiah.blogspot.com/2014/03/new-balance-mt110v2-preview-july-2014.html

I'm now running/hiking in NB MT1010:
http://trailrunnernation.com/2013/12/new-balance-mt1010-v2/

I'm getting a pair of these - perhaps for trails:
http://www.lunasandals.com/

And also considering these for off-trail and rockier sections:
http://www.newbalance.com/Leadville-1210/MT1210,default,pd.html


Edited by Hobbes (05/21/14 07:59 AM)

Top
#36660 - 05/21/14 08:53 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
How do the luna sandals compare to crocs, weight wise, etc?

I need a new pair of camp shoes, the sandals look interesting. Would you use them for water crossings? That is the primary reason for my crocs. ....only I lost one of the pair on the final 400 of Whitney, so I need to buy something.

Here's a Croc. My pair was a cheap knock-off from Target.


Top
#36665 - 05/21/14 10:42 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: Hobbes]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 210
Loc: San Diego
Hobbes wrote:
"If you can measure, saw & nail a 2x4, you can measure, cut material & sew a rectangle."

My junior year college roommate bought a sew -it-yourself sleeping bag pattern and materials, including an extra pound of down, from a Seattle mail order merchant called "REI" and made his own sleeping bag. He figured that having made the bag, he'd know how to open the right seam to replace damaged or lost down over the years.

At the forty year class reunion he told me it was a good thing he bought a whole extra pound of down, because he had gone through half of it already.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Top
#36666 - 05/21/14 11:54 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
BamaFireman Offline


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Alabama
Thanks Hobbes.
Good suggestions, all.
I actually have neoprene from an old wetsuit.
The counterweight provided by the front mounted water bottles is good for my back.
Oh! The Klymit Inertia sleeping pad works well for me in warmer weather.

Jesse

Top
#36667 - 05/21/14 12:04 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: BamaFireman]
BamaFireman Offline


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Alabama
Hobbes:
Sorry.
A trash compactor bag is used to keep my gear dry - not a garbage bag.
Your idea to use a Turkey bag is excellent.

Jesse

Top
#36670 - 05/21/14 02:22 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Steve C]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
Originally Posted By: Steve C
How do the luna sandals compare to crocs, weight wise, etc?

I need a new pair of camp shoes, the sandals look interesting. Would you use them for water crossings? That is the primary reason for my crocs. ....only I lost one of the pair on the final 400 of Whitney, so I need to buy something.

Here's a Croc. My pair was a cheap knock-off from Target.

<img src=http://images.crocs.com/is/image/Crocs/10001_200_ALT100>


My wife and I are getting the Luna Mono for walking/jogging. Their website says a pair of size 9s weigh 9oz, so I figure 11-12oz for a pair of size 12s. You can order either a leather or rubber topsole. I think I will go with the leather (for running along our flat beachside trails), but if you plan on getting them wet, most Seattleites get the rubber.

Top
#36671 - 05/21/14 02:29 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: dbd]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
Originally Posted By: dbd
Hobbes wrote:
A Seattle mail order merchant called "REI" and made his own sleeping bag. He figured that having made the bag, he'd know how to open the right seam to replace damaged or lost down over the years.


Isn't it amazing what REI has morphed into? But yeah, once you have the core shell set up, it's trivial to purchase super-high quality down. T-H sells 3oz baggies of 900FP for $45.

The quilt pictured upstream - and yeah, it's also enclosed in my pack photo above, along with a BV450, so you can see how compressible it is - is filled with 12oz of 900FP. But, it would take me maybe something like 5 minutes to tear open a seam, sift in 3 more ounces, and have a sub 25 degree quilt. (I think my range right now with 12oz is around 28-32 degrees.)

The M90 material is really high-tech - the stuff weighs less than an ounce for a square yard. So, do the math: 12oz of down, 5.6oz for the material equals 17.6oz. The flipping stuff sack weighs .7oz alone for comparison (probably the cord lock LOL) for a grand total of 18.3 ounces.

Technology has advanced in so many areas, including material science. The whole discipline of understanding CLO values provides a lot of answers to helping design appropriate gear using the most modern materials to achieve really high strength/warmth/dry to weight ratios.

REI and other mass market retailers are way, way behind the curve on this stuff. There's a handful of cottage gear manufactures (like Steve's Zpack) that are pushing the envelope, but it's so much easier to just whip the stuff out yourself if you have some basic skills.


Edited by Hobbes (05/21/14 02:41 PM)

Top
#36685 - 05/22/14 12:25 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: Hobbes]
wagga Offline


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 2243
Loc: Humbug Reach (Pop. 3)
You guys with your Cuben fiber are still in the heavy canvas days - Graphene is 100 times stronger than steel, and a square metre weighs about 1/1000 of a single Diamox tablet. And it's invisible. So there.



PDF for the science.
_________________________
Verum audaces non gerunt indusia alba. - Ipsi dixit MCMLXXII

Top
#36734 - 05/23/14 04:25 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: wagga]
Fishmonger Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 1030
Loc: Madison, WI
I am actually adding weight to my pack this summer to get into better shape. Cuben fiber may be in my cereal, definitely not on my back.
_________________________
My Stuff on Flickr

Top
#36839 - 05/28/14 12:44 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Originally Posted By: Hobbes

Those are 20oz Gatorade bottles on the front straps.



Are there any concerns with carrying the Gatorade bottles in bear country? Do you put them in a bear canister at night?

Top
#36840 - 05/28/14 12:59 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 210
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: 63ChevyII.com
Are there any concerns with carrying the Gatorade bottles in bear country? Do you put them in a bear canister at night?

If it looks like food, don't leave it visible. And if it smells like food, don't leave it accessible.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Top
#36842 - 05/28/14 01:54 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: dbd]
63ChevyII.com Offline


Registered: 08/07/12
Posts: 670
Loc: Colton, California
Originally Posted By: dbd
if it smells like food, don't leave it accessible


That's the reason why I don't carry Gatorade bottles on overnight trips. They take up an awful lot of real estate in a bear canister. I suppose you could get creative and back them with food before putting them in the canister. I was just wondering what others do.
_________________________
HikingGeek.com

Top
#36846 - 05/28/14 04:19 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: 63ChevyII.com]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
If the bottle is empty, a bear won't bother it. In fact, take the lid off so the bear can really see (smell) it. Bear is not going to waste any time crunching plastic that is empty.

...I don't think the bear would be interested in the one I keep beside my sleeping bag with the XXX marked all over it. grin

Top
#36874 - 05/29/14 12:14 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Steve C]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 210
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Steve C
If the bottle is empty, a bear won't bother it. In fact, take the lid off so the bear can really see (smell) it. Bear is not going to waste any time crunching plastic that is empty.


Steve, your personal history with bears doesn't seem to have improved your care in giving safety advice. Whether you like to consider it or not, some of the readers may visit the Whitney Zone themselves and most who do will travel through Whitney Portal. For those who do, your advice is endangering there.

A portal bear may not eat an empty plastic bottle, but she may peel open your car door to find out if the bottle she sees is empty. (You are right of course, as far as the bottle is concerned, this won't "bother it".) Rangers also take exception to any kind of food or water container visible in vehicles and they don't bother to smell first either.

At the portal, packs "look like food" so bears have stolen and will steal packs and rip them open before taking time to smell them. The bears don't seem to eat the cameras, GPS units or binoculars and you might find them in daylight the next morning.

I had a guy at the portal one night ask me if I had seen his pack. He had set the pack at his feet and leaned in to his car door to pick up something across the seat. When he stood back, his pack was gone. He was able to borrow enough gear from people in the parking lot to make his day hike and his wife found the camera/GPS/binoculars in the morning so he did not have to carry them. Maybe the bear wasn't hungry but just laying the ultralight manifesto on the dude.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Top
#36877 - 05/29/14 12:47 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: dbd]
Hobbes Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 124
Loc: The OC
I now realize I should have said, "former, with labels/glue scrubbed off and thoroughly washed, Gatorade bottles". Actually, they didn't even originally contain Gatorade - that's just shorthand for the generic 20oz bottles that Gatorade and some other flavored-water manufacturers use.

The reason these canteens are so popular is because they are strong, light, have a tight lid, disposable and/or easily replaced for pennies, and have a ridge near the top so that they can be fastened by bungee cord.

As for gear nomenclature, here's an excerpt from a popular PCT hiker's trail journal carrotquinn.com:

"I take my gatorade bottles down to the spigot ..."

Part of her gear list:

Titanium spoon .6
Knife (tiny swiss army classic w/scissors and single blade) 1
Platypus 2-liter bottles x 2 2
Gatorade bottles x 2 2.5
Stuff sack for food 1

I can assure you she is not purchasing Gatorade at her various stops. Sorry for any confusion. Perhaps my error is the continuing capitalization of the brand name, as opposed to affixing a general reference. The parent company better get cracking on take-down notices in order to help prevent those bottles from taking on a generic label like kleenex. (Interestingly, both lower case gatorade & kleenex show as spelling errors).

As for bears recognizing containers/packages that have provided rewards in the past, such as coolers, packs, canteens(?), etc, I haven't noticed that hanging backpacks is that popular, at least in the Sierra.

As myself, I use my pack* for a pillow (with my shoes wrapped inside), and keep both water bottles full & right next to me so that I can have a drink in the middle of the night. YMMV

* Edit: I now realize I have to be precisely clear so to avoid any possible confusion. Yes, my food and all items with any possible scent are stored in the bear container and placed 50+ yards away. My pack is empty except for some extra clothes. Hope that helps.


Edited by Hobbes (05/29/14 01:11 PM)

Top
#36890 - 05/29/14 06:50 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto [Re: Hobbes]
dbd Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 210
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Hobbes
I now realize I should have said, "former, with labels/glue scrubbed off and thoroughly washed, Gatorade bottles". Actually, they didn't even originally contain Gatorade -
...


The problem isn't with brands of containers or clean or empty. The problem is with sloppy statements that are dangerously inapplicable at some entry/exit points that many people pass thru on their way to the high country. The behaviors that may be safe around wild bears cannot be expected to be safe around human-habituated bears.

People who give you advice that only applies to wild bears without that warning are doing you a disservice. Even with proper warning it is still your responsibility to know what kind of bear area you are traveling through at any time and that can change over time depending on the behavior of other people who have been there before you.

Dale B. Dalrymple

Top
#36899 - 05/30/14 07:42 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: wagga]
SierraNevada Offline


Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 1139
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By: wagga
You guys with your Cuben fiber are still in the heavy canvas days - Graphene is 100 times stronger than steel, and a square metre weighs about 1/1000 of a single Diamox tablet. And it's invisible. So there.

Been watching graphene closely. The "invisible" one atom layer can maybe hold a few pounds. It would be great for the Emperor's new clothing. Here's a search link with a lot of interesting articles on one site.

Graphene Search on Cleantechnica.com

The breakthroughs are not just the material, but the nanotech manufacturing processes that are being developed to make it - being able to work at the atomic scale. This is going to trigger an amazing technology revolution.

But cuben fiber still rules backpacking gear for now, if you can afford it.

Edit: I forgot to mention there's a plant in Poland about to manufacture Graphene commercially.


Edited by SierraNevada (05/30/14 07:43 AM)

Top
#52576 - 02/01/18 08:04 AM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: SierraNevada]
Steve C Offline


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 7598
Loc: Fresno, CA
I just came across this worthwhile thread...

Here we are nearly 4 years later. Where are those graphene products?

Top
#52581 - 02/04/18 01:43 PM Re: Ultralight Manifesto and maintenace [Re: Steve C]
EdHaynes Offline


Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Graphene bicycles, fishing rods, tennis rackets and much are are offered for sale. When it comes to hiking and camping, hiking boots may be here very soon: https://www.graphene-info.com/chinese-pr...-enhanced-shoes

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >