Mt Whitney Zone Forums General Discussion Boots v. Trailrunners

Although not properly defined as UL, one of the most famous and successful mountaineering minimalist pioneers was Reinhold Messner. Compared to other similarly skilled mountaineers of his day, Messner was (in)famous for carrying a significantly lighter load into a climb than most. In the Himalaya that meant no oxygen for any of the 8000-meter peaks he successfully conquered (that being all of them), as well as a bare minimum of climbing pro and other gear. He only rarely utilized Sherpa and porter aid during his career. Light and fast was his mantra, and it confounded most of the other experienced Himalayan expedition climbers of the time, many of whom were obsessively gear- and support-focused. Messner also eschewed the ponderous and traditional acclimation rotation in favor of going high extremely fast - to the tune of 1000 meters an hour at his peak conditioning. He would acclimate to 5500 meters then bolt for an 8000-meter summit. He established a number of speed-ascent records in his day, not the least of which was a new route up Everest. He also achieved what many consider to be the only true solo climb of Everest.

However, others who've attempted to imitate Messner's techniques and style have not been as successful, often paying with either body parts or their lives. They didn't have his skill, they didn't have his conditioning, they didn't have his physiology, and they didn't have his drive.

The point being, one size doesn't fit all, which applies abundantly to UL hiking. Sure, we all want virtually no weight on our backs (or feet) as we trudge uphill in thin air. The trick is knowing what level of minimalism is right for you, given expected conditions. Unfortunately, many find out the hard way that they've out-kicked their coverage.

Ken,

I know where I am on trails. I have an altimeter, USGS 7.5' quads and know how to triangulate position. I can put where I am on a map in about 10 seconds most of the time without the use of GPS. I just find it easier if I can give air assets long/lat and ground personnel UTM in a timely manner. You assume way too much.

Dead battery cannard, eh. My skills are good enough without the use of technology but aren't you suppose to carry spares in your pack?

The government paid a lot of money to train me in a bit more than first aid back when the only color in my closet was green. Again, you assume. My Red Cross first aid certification is current.

Life is about judgments, we make them all the time. I am sure you do in your practice. I don't mind being judged, I judge myself all the time. Smearing every person I have never met...nice strawman there. I think I said most of the people I have given assistance to have a UL/Light philosophy. That is empirical...I also used YMMV in a post.

I did not say those have heavy do not go out unprepared or underprepared, just my experience. Michelle Yu had 40 pounds of rocks but no crampons in her pack when she walked off the backside of Mt. Baldy a few years ago in a white out. It is my judgment she was unprepared for conditions expected that day.

Nice summary, Bulldog.

You are perfectly reasonably able to form judgements about specific people that you have seen, or incidents reported.

However, when you smear (and yes, I mean that specific word) people you have never met, that is not reasonable.

You are saying that there is no such thing as an ultralight backpacker who is prepared. BS. Not only that, but you know many in this community.

As for me "assuming too much"---that is EXACTLY my point....look how you object when OTHERS assume about you. Unless you consider yourself king of the trail, you are subject to exactly the same assumption process that you direct against others.

See how you move into defensive mode....and you can actually defend yourself. When you make your assumptive posts directed at any and all ultralighters, they cannot defend themselves.

And as for your first aid certification, as I said, it is inadequate, and you are not up to date on advanced skills. You are expired. I'll bet you don't like the sound of that criticism. If that is the case, consider how you sound to others when you smear them when you've never seen them on a trail.

So, how does everybody feel about wearing boots vs. trailrunners?

I like boots.

To quote an old British Army song: "...boots, boots, boots, marching up and down again, boots, boots, boots."

Ken,

You have made a lot of statement but have provided no examples.

Hmmm...I guess that could be construed as a smear, huh Ken?

Where should I send the straw?

Salty,

It all depends on what I am doing and where.

I own three types of footwear...soon to replace low trailshoes with trailrunners.

Off trail...mid weight backpacking boots

trails...distance and type of trail determine footwear.

Winter...mountaineering boots.

Geeze, guys, I was KIDDING!!! Enough already!